Dublin @30km

Paul_Mc1988 · 06-12-2016 4:48pm

I'd love to know how the expect to police this is the likes of Crumlin and drimnagh. A flash for cash van wouldn't last pissing time in parts of those areas.

P.S I live in the locality so I'm not a begrudger just my personal observations.

blackwhite · 06-12-2016 4:53pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I drive up the quays along the south side once a week and have never seen a sign stating 30 km/h.

Are they hoping its assumed everyone knows it's there?

Starts at:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3474353,-6.255129,3a,75y,279.78h,86.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssMbgyloBk0zfhybsUbeLyQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Shown again at:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3468752,-6.2593953,3a,75y,257.3h,94.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv-MWC42uMdnGFRiMrT0K8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And at:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3463349,-6.2617089,3a,75y,260.2h,80.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1symDpYq1g9-U8NZSahBQNRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And then the change back to 50 at the end of the zone

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3452625,-6.2687464,3a,75y,263.4h,84.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQYVQMMQB3s7nvwyZjd9q3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Carawaystick · 06-12-2016 5:04pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Thanks. So it seems there are some areas I'm driving it's 30km/h but as I'm coming from Capel St, it's not indicated by signage.

Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:

LeChienMefiant · 06-12-2016 5:06pm

Delighted by this move, I look forward to further curtailment of vehicular traffic in my area. I'm disappointed we're not in the initial plan. D6 area.

CramCycle · 06-12-2016 5:11pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:

The whole area there is 30km from Bolton St. down and from Gardiner St. accross

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 5:24pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:

You'd never get more than 20 with lights and traffic on that road.

But I haven't seen a sign for 30 km/h along there either after going on from Parnell St. Looking over Google street view and I still don't see one. (granted it's from 2 1/2 years ago and could have been updated since.)

Someone posting up earlier about a "default" speed limit of sorts. We have one. It's 50. 30 is very much the exception.

Edit:
Ok, so I've found where that 30 km/h limit sign is right at the start of Parnell St. hmmm if you miss it you're done for.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 6:01pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Dublin @30km

That's just 18 miles per hour :cool:

1st gear in some cars, or 2nd gear in others . . . .

Sounds like its toooo slooowwww to me.

AlekSmart · 06-12-2016 6:09pm

hmmm wrote: »

I'd rather be knocked down by a car driving along at 5kph with a man waving a red flag in front, but that doesn't mean it's a good compromise. There are millions of journeys by car every year in the city centre, there has to be some thought given to the impact on quality of life caused by these limits versus the tiny chance that someone might get killed or injured.

One of the issues I have with this goes back to the low rise sprawl city we have - it's all very well implementing low speed limits in a central area of a modern European city, but in a city which is sprawling out all over the place it has a much greater impact on motorists. Councilors are elected by their local consistuents, and we already know that if people living in the city centre could get a non-overlooked house with 2 acres of grass surrounding it within sight of Grafton Street they'd vote for it if they could.

Probably the most accurate summation of this "initiative" by our Local Councillors.

It might serve these fellows better if they stood back a bit,and addressed Hmmm's point regarding population density in central Dublin as it's current configuration stands as a barrier to ANY success making Dublin an accessible city for everybody to enjoy.

Right now,Dublin requires a LARGE increase in Bus Frequency,in addition to DART/Suburban Rail improvements,two elements which,if combined with outer-ring Park & Ride facilities,would produce far better results.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 6:15pm

I' going to do a test drive @30kh/h tonight on the way home, (just to see how I get on at such a slow speed). Will report back later this evening.

Cheers 4 now.

AlekSmart · 06-12-2016 6:20pm

LordSutch wrote: »

That's just 18 miles per hour :cool:

1st gear in some cars, or 2nd gear in others . . . .

Sounds like its toooo slooowwww to me.

Too slow....dangerously so IMO,as it will lead to far greater levels of indecision,which again,IMO,is a far greater,albeit unacknowledged,factor in Road Traffic Incidents in Ireland.

Lets face it,the numbers of children injured or killed in Driveway accidents involving parents vehicles reversing or manouvering,will not be impacted in the least by this initiative.

Every ill designed residential estate in this country suffers a daily plague of "School Run" insanity largely based upon some need to park an MPV as close to the School premisies as possible,before making several,ever more erratic attempts,to turn the thing around....I have personally witnessed these journeys being made simply to collect schoolbags,whilst the children then WALK/RUN home to the bottom of the estate :eek:.....No amount of 30Km/h speed limits will address these levels of imbicility.

Roadhawk · 06-12-2016 6:23pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I' going to do a test drive @30kh/h tonight on the way home, (just to see how I get on at such a slow speed). Will report back later this evening.

Cheers 4 now.

Please dont. You will only be holding up the people driving behind you.

Better off doing it in your driveway when you get home

_Kaiser_ · 06-12-2016 6:38pm

Another ridiculous law made by the anti-car lobby of the inner city. It'll actually cause additional dangers as you'll get more lane-hopping and indecision, less attention to the actual road as motorists watch the speedometer instead, pedestrians and cyclists chancing a run between traffic and so on.

Many people will ignore it which will result in more danger as the difference in speeds will be greater. 30 km/h on most roads is simply too slow, but it makes the "I can't take responsibility for my own life and personal safety by being aware of traffic and behaving accordingly rather than walking out in front of it" types feel better I suppose so it's all worthwhile. :rolleyes:

Personally it's pretty rare I go into town these days anyway because it's such a pain to get around (and I actually would never accept a job in the city centre as a result), but I'll continue to drive as I always have.. at a speed appropriate to the conditions at the time - be it faster or slower than the "limit" - rather than blind adherence to it regardless.

_Kaiser_ · 06-12-2016 7:06pm

Deedsie wrote: »

I really hope county councils throughout Ireland see sense and implement similar schemes in resedential and high footfall pedestrian areas. 30km/h is a grand speed to drive at or you are not actually able to operate your car properly.

Do you drive yourself out of curiosity, and if so do you drive greater distances than maybe a km or two?

Genuine question as I can't believe anyone who spends any sort of time behind the wheel would come out with such an uninformed statement.

PhilipsR · 06-12-2016 7:48pm

The planning in this city is an absolute mess. There just isn't an overall plan at all.

18mph is Nanny State crap. Painfully slow and completely unnecessary.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 7:49pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I' going to do a test drive @30kh/h tonight on the way home, (just to see how I get on at such a slow speed). Will report back later this evening.

Cheers 4 now.

OK, so I tried it out and this is what I discovered;

Its definately a 2nd gear job in my car, and its also very difficult to hold it at 30km/h (18MPH). Its the same speed as if you were on a potholed narrow counytry lane. Its slow, very slow, painfully slow, with a capital S for SLOW.

You keep wanting to change up into 3rd, but if you do then that imediately pushes you over the limit ... (so you must stay in 2nd) and concentrate hard on the dashboard so that you don't creep over 30km/h.

On saying all of the above, I did get the impression that the new limit would be a sensible precaution in a multi story car park, or a built up estate with a cul de sac. Otherwise the new limit is totally crazy, uninforcable & unatainable (for any length of time) as cyclists whizz past on your inside . . .

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 7:53pm

Deedsie wrote: »

50 km/h is not the "default" speed limit in Dublin city centre. Surely the driver must take some responsibility to know the speed limit of an area they regularly drive in. Although taxis happily ignore speed limits etc and they are professional drivers.

50 is the national speed limit and from my understanding is considered a default unless clearly stated otherwise.

I had gone through my route throughout and there was very minimal information to state alternative speed limits. The only spot is where there is a lot of works going on for the luas, where traffic proceeds slowly anyway and as a result, there are more pedestrians walking through the road between cars.

sdanseo · 06-12-2016 7:56pm

loyatemu wrote: »

even if half of drivers obey it, the other half will be forced to obey it because they'll be stuck behind the slower cars.

The AA are banging on about it being unenforceable, but that's not really the point, it will bring average speeds down and set a marker that city streets are shared spaces (I see the AA wanted limits on some city streets increased to 80 - really nailing their colours to the mast there...)

City streets like the Stillorgan Road. Y'know, 3 lanes each way, partially grade separated, central median.

Dravokivich wrote: »

50 is the national speed limit and from my understanding is considered a default unless clearly stated otherwise.

There has (rather stupidly) been no such thing as a national speed limit since 2002. Used to be if no posted limit, 60mph. Now, if in doubt, it could well be 60km/h instead. Every road has a limit except narrow country roads with a max speed of 80km/h and advisory of "SLOW".

Fighting Tao · 06-12-2016 7:58pm

LordSutch wrote: »

OK, so I tried it out and this is what I discovered;

Its definately a 2nd gear job in my car, and its also very difficult to hold it at 30km/h (18MPH). Its the same speed as if you were on a potholed narrow counytry lane. Its slow, very slow, painfully slow, with a capital S for SLOW.

You keep wanting to change up into 3rd, but if you do then that imediately pushes you over the limit ... (so you must stay in 2nd) and concentrate hard on the dashboard so that you don't creep over 30km/h.

On saying all of the above, I did get the impression that the new limit would be a sensible precaution in a multi story car park, or a built up estate with a cul de sac. Otherwise the new limit is totally crazy, uninforcable & unatainable (for any length of time) as cyclists whizz past on your inside . . .

If you round like a normal person it's 19mph. Only a bad driver can't drive at that speed. Keep up the practice. You should improve. I can drive in 4th gear in my car at that speed. No problem at all.

I seriously can't understand people's need to go as fast as possible all th time. Relax!

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 7:59pm

LordSutch wrote: »

OK, so I tried it out and this is what I discovered;

Its definately a 2nd gear job in my car, and its also very difficult to hold it at 30km/h (18MPH). Its the same speed as if you were on a potholed narrow counytry lane. Its slow, very slow, painfully slow, with a capital S for SLOW.

You keep wanting to change up into 3rd, but if you do then that imediately pushes you over the limit ... (so you must stay in 2nd) and concentrate hard on the dashboard so that you don't creep over 30km/h.

On saying all of the above, I did get the impression that the new limit would be a sensible precaution in a multi story car park, or a built up estate with a cul de sac. Otherwise the new limit is totally crazy, uninforcable & unatainable (for any length of time) as cyclists whizz past on your inside . . .

Trade in for a slower model so. I've no problem driving at 30 when I know I have to

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 8:09pm

sdanseo wrote: »

City streets like the Stillorgan Road. Y'know, 3 lanes each way, partially grade separated, central median.

There has (rather stupidly) been no such thing as a national speed limit since 2002. Used to be if no posted limit, 60mph. Now, if in doubt, it could well be 60km/h instead. Every road has a limit except narrow country roads with a max speed of 80km/h and advisory of "SLOW".

Fair enough, but there are defaults for road types and or scenarios unless stated otherwise as attached. The Northside of the city doesn't seem to have much signage along the route I take. And my only chance to see it is minimised by an abundance of those its meant to assist. So I might find out who that should be queried with when I get a chance. But if they look to push this through a lot of the city, they'll really need to put a lot of effort into informing people of it.

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 8:12pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Your understanding is incorrect, city centre driving naturally is different to the rest of the country. Distractions like Luas works, groups of pedestrians, large numbers of cyclists demand an even higher level of awareness from motorists. Alas we don't really get that do we.

Eh, I'm not sure what you are at. I have just stated I spend more time looking at what's around me, then 2 metres up every pole, only to miss the single pole on my route that states the 30 km/h speed limit.

Dravokivich · 06-12-2016 8:40pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Would you not just assume that the speed limit would be different in an Urban area? And that Dublin city centre it is 30 km/h? Better safe than sorry would be my approach

No, attaining the speed limit is obviously dependent on other factors, such as what's going on around you. It doesn't matter whether or not that road is rated for 50, you won't be doing it because of pedestrian behaviour with slow moving traffic, due to congestion, road works, a lot of traffic lights out of sync or any other reason. But if that isn't happening, I'd of seen no reason to not assume it should be 50. I'll be looking out for the sign I identified earlier tomorrow, to determine why I'd not seen it before.

If I was to incorrectly assume a lower limit further back on that road through summerhill where town houses and apartments are, I'd have to contend with everyone going nearly twice the speed of me. That also creates a dangerous environment for road users. Especially when you take into account a badly laid out junction just before it.

There's a whole lot going on a road level in that area.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 8:50pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

If you round like a normal person it's 19mph. Only a bad driver can't drive at that speed. Keep up the practice. You should improve. I can drive in 4th gear in my car at that speed. No problem at all.

I seriously can't understand people's need to go as fast as possible all th time. Relax!

18.6 MPH.

In my diesel machine 2nd gear is the only option. Revs too high in 1st, and I can't get into 3rd without the car wanting to creep over 30km/h. Can't get into 4th gear till about 40km/h for fear of stalling. I have been driving for several decades & in different machines (petrol & diesel), so its not as if I am inexperienced on the subject.

For the non drivers among you, think of it as a 'slow bicycle race for cars', meaning you have to concentrate hard on holding back & going very slow, so as not to go over the limit.

Technically speaking; 30km/h is an abnormally slow speed to maintain for any length of time (in certain cars). The gearing ratios play a part as does the engine aspiration type, high torque low revs diesel, high revs petrol.

Fighting Tao · 06-12-2016 9:13pm

LordSutch wrote: »

18.6 MPH.

In my diesel machine 2nd gear is the only option. Revs too high in 1st, and I can't get into 3rd without the car wanting to creep over 30km/h. Can't get into 4th gear till about 40km/h for fear of stalling. I have been driving for several decades & in different machines (petrol & diesel), so its not as if I am inexperienced on the subject.

For the non drivers among you, think of it as a 'slow bicycle race for cars', meaning you have to concentrate hard on holding back & going very slow, so as not to go over the limit.

Technically speaking; 30km/h is an abnormally slow speed to maintain for any length of time (in certain cars). The gearing ratios play a part as does the engine aspiration type, high torque low revs diesel, high revs petrol.

What is this mighty steed you call your car?

Cookie_Monster · 06-12-2016 9:27pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

How do they plan on monitoring cyclists going over 30km/h?

same as every other speed limit. It's completely irrelevant as cyclists are not subject to them.

Del2005 · 06-12-2016 9:57pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Either way, it's happening and it should lead to less people killed on the roads in Dublin. 29 or so were killed in Dublin crashes in the past 3 years. Is life really that invaluable to people that they couldn't leave the house 5 minutes earlier for their trip?

How many of these people were killed by vehicles travelling at 50? Most are large vehicles turning, which in most cases are due to the person going into the blindspot of the large vehicle, or people doing way more than 50 and they will be doing way way more than 30 for the next fatality or serious injury.

I don't drive in Dublin City centre often and I try my best not to exceed urban limits if the road is clear, by using cruise control so I can concentrate on the road. I've driven through the current 30 zone several times looking out for the reduced limit signs but have never seen them. If they seriously wanted to protect pedestrian then if should be blatantly obvious that you are in the zone with massive signs when entering and regular repeat signs.

An even better way to protect pedestrians and cyclists would be the system in some US cities where the speed limit is 25 but motorists get a green wave if they do 20, doing 25 you get stopped at every junction.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 9:59pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

What is this mighty steed you call your car?

Its a mighty standard 1.6 HDi (92 BHP) turbo Diesel.

Renault Scenic type.
...nothing special.

Fighting Tao · 06-12-2016 10:00pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Its a mighty standard 1.6 HDi (92 BHP) turbo Diesel

Renault Scenic type.
...nothing special.

Should be no issue putting it into 3rd or 4th. Mine is 1.7 CRDi (115 BHP). No problems with 4th in it at 30 kph.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 10:03pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Should be no issue putting it into 3rd or 4th. Mine is 1.7 CRDi (115 BHP). No problems with 4th in it at 30 kph.

I have already told you in a previous post.

"In my diesel machine 2nd gear is the only option. Revs too high in 1st, and I can't get into 3rd without the car wanting to creep over 30km/h. Can't get into 4th gear till about 40km/h for fear of stalling".

Accept that and move on.

PeadarCo · 06-12-2016 10:03pm

Del2005 wrote:

An even better way to protect pedestrians and cyclists would be the system in some US cities where the speed limit is 25 but motorists get a green wave if they do 20, doing 25 you get stopped at every junction.

I think the green wave does exist on the quays or at least did at one point. Remember cycling along the north side of the quays for the first time a couple of years ago and getting 4/5 greens in a row. Having driven down them before I was expecting to have to stop alot. That many greens in a row was actually disconcerting until I looked at my speedo and saw I was sitting at about 30km/hr. I'm not a regular user so don't know if that's a once off. But I imagine at rush hour heavy traffic either side of the 30km/hr zone could know any attempt at a gren wave out of wack.

Fighting Tao · 06-12-2016 10:04pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I have already told you in a previous post.

"In my diesel machine 2nd gear is the only option. Revs too high in 1st, and I can't get into 3rd without the car wanting to creep over 30km/h. Can't get into 4th gear till about 40km/h for fear of stalling".

Accept that and move on.

Maybe it needs someone to look at it, or, a different driver.

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 10:11pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Well I drive a 2.0 litre (120 bhp) Ford Kuga with zero issues driving at 30 km/h. Practice makes perfect though, people will adapt to it.

In 4th gear?

hmmm · 06-12-2016 10:33pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Otherwise the new limit is totally crazy, uninforcable & unatainable (for any length of time) as cyclists whizz past on your inside . . .

It won't be obeyed, by anyone.

Instead, law abiding drivers will learn that it is ok to drive faster than 30, and in turn will decide that maybe it's not so bad to drive outside the other limits too as the chances of getting caught are very slim. It will be ignored by people who ignore limits anyway.

Cyclists will continue to get killed by left turning trucks, people will continue to get killed on the M50 because they are looking at their phone.

monument · 06-12-2016 10:45pm

Can everyone please remember that this is Commuting and Transport and not After Hours -- posters are expected to go beyond mud slinging and the basic stuff.

Please everyone stop debating 30km/h vs 20mph and ever fraction between -- every one please call it 30, 30km/h or even 30kmph. Please debate the real issues and points of disagreement, not semantics.

People have mostly being ok, but a bit of toning it down is needed on both sides around the edges.

-- moderator

hmmm wrote: »

law abiding drivers will learn that it is ok to drive faster than 30,

Then they won't be law abiding if they go over 30km/h on a street with that limit.... I'm saying this now to stop another side debate.

-- moderator

LordSutch · 06-12-2016 11:29pm

Well I think its too slow, and seriously doubt that it will be adhered to by the majority of drivers.

Back in May of this year Conor Faughnan of the AA said this ...

“You don’t make roads safer by writing a lower number on a pole,” he said.

“Imposing a 30km/h limit on wide areas is unwise and tends not to work.

“These limits have to be introduced in sympathy with the engineering of the road,” he said. “Putting up polls with ‘30km’ on them will not make roads safer.

“If you put up a number that compels drivers to drive in a way that would fail the driving test, it undermines confidence in speed limits generally.”

Mr Faughnan said AA Ireland lobbied long and hard to get rid of 80km/h signs on narrow country roads for the same reason.

“If the number on the sign is obviously ridiculous, you’re embarking on a widespread advertising campaign that speed limits are ridiculous and don’t need to be followed,” he said.

Full article here > http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/controversy-erupts-over-plans-for-blanket-30km-dublin-city-speed-limit-34735439.html

CramCycle · 06-12-2016 11:54pm

I agree that it will not immediately lead to mass obediance. It currently doesn't. But the possibility of being caught should reduce off peak speeds as people foolishly try to beat the odds (I'll brake in time thinking).

I have driven a range of vehicles, from a massey 35 to a volvo p1800 to 2ltr TDS and 8 wheelers. A few in between. Driving at 30 is not difficult in any of them (bar the Massey).

It will take a few years to be the norm amd that will be that.

A far better improvement to public safety would be red light cameras and average speed cameras but I really can't see the negatives unless there is no attempt at random location enforcement.

Del2005 · 07-12-2016 1:50am

PeadarCo wrote: »

I think the green wave does exist on the quays or at least did at one point. Remember cycling along the north side of the quays for the first time a couple of years ago and getting 4/5 greens in a row. Having driven down them before I was expecting to have to stop alot. That many greens in a row was actually disconcerting until I looked at my speedo and saw I was sitting at about 30km/hr. I'm not a regular user so don't know if that's a once off. But I imagine at rush hour heavy traffic either side of the 30km/hr zone could know any attempt at a gren wave out of wack.

You fluked it, the opposite of Sod's Law. I've occasionally got a green wave on the N81, from the M50 to past Jobstown, but the next day doing the exact same speed I get stopped at every light . Unless policy has been changed in the last few years there is no green wave, IIRC I heard a rep from Dublin city council saying that they would not introduce it.

Del2005 · 07-12-2016 2:01am

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I think its too slow, and seriously doubt that it will be adhered to by the majority of drivers.

Back in May of this year Conor Faughnan of the AA said this ...

“You don’t make roads safer by writing a lower number on a pole,” he said.

“Imposing a 30km/h limit on wide areas is unwise and tends not to work.

“These limits have to be introduced in sympathy with the engineering of the road,” he said. “Putting up polls with ‘30km’ on them will not make roads safer.

“If you put up a number that compels drivers to drive in a way that would fail the driving test, it undermines confidence in speed limits generally.”

Mr Faughnan said AA Ireland lobbied long and hard to get rid of 80km/h signs on narrow country roads for the same reason.

“If the number on the sign is obviously ridiculous, you’re embarking on a widespread advertising campaign that speed limits are ridiculous and don’t need to be followed,” he said.

Full article here > http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/controversy-erupts-over-plans-for-blanket-30km-dublin-city-speed-limit-34735439.html

The AA represents its shareholders not motorists. 30 in built up areas is safer for everyone. The issue is that it has no effect if it isn't enforced and there will never be speed checks in housing estates.

Harping back to the US where they have variable speed limits, and increased penalties, outside schools during school hours. You can be guaranteed that there will be a police car sitting outside a school during these hours, come over to good old Ireland and you'll see the worse driving outside our schools and not a Garda to be seen.

seamus · 07-12-2016 9:23am

I can't believe this, "it's hard to drive slowly", "people will be watching the speedometer and not the road" nonsense is still flying around.

Argue about whether it's enforced, by all means. There have been 30km/h limits in Dublin City centre for a number of years now, I think we've put to bed any arguments about whether it's physically possible to drive that slowly, or safer to do so.

Bray Head · 07-12-2016 9:43am

To be honest I can't see it making a huge difference to how fast I get around, particularly at peak time.

Arterial routes like Amiens St will still be 50kph.

For everywhere else the combination of ramps, parked cars, congestion, cyclists, etc, makes it difficult to go much above 30kph consistently already.

Hilly Bill · 07-12-2016 1:40pm

seamus wrote: »

I can't believe this, "it's hard to drive slowly", "people will be watching the speedometer and not the road" nonsense is still flying around.

Argue about whether it's enforced, by all means. There have been 30km/h limits in Dublin City centre for a number of years now, I think we've put to bed any arguments about whether it's physically possible to drive that slowly, or safer to do so.

Just because the limit is there doesn't mean it's been obeyed. It's possible to drive that slow but not very safe unless the layout of the road makes it unsafe to drive any faster. on a straight bit of downhill road it can lead to you getting fined for driving at 35kph at the same time as been overtaken by a cyclist going to work. The aim should be to get transport to their destination as quick and as safe as possible without slowing them down even further and causing congestion. Very few stick to the 30kph limit anyway so extending it isn't going to change much.

magicbastarder · 07-12-2016 1:57pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

it can lead to you getting fined for driving at 35kph at the same time as been overtaken by a cyclist going to work.

is there some unwritten rule that cars should be faster than bikes?

Hilly Bill · 07-12-2016 2:31pm

They generally are or they wouldn't sell.

Hilly Bill · 07-12-2016 2:38pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Quick and safe for who? Motorists? Surely you recognise the councils job is to make commuting quicker and safer for public transport users, pedestrians and cyclists too?

The cause of congestion is the volume of single occupant private car.

I think the word safe speakes for itself. If you've knocked a pedestrian over or a cyclist off a bike then that's not safe is it. Slowing you down to a crawl won't get you anywhere quicker. .

CramCycle · 07-12-2016 2:47pm

What are the positives:
- Perception of safety
- Lower noise levels (and they will be lower)
- In incidences involving motor vehicles, even if the scheme only lowers the average speed rather than gets everyone below that number, accidents will typically have a lower injury rate or a lower severity of the injuries involved
- increase PT adoption as there will be a lower perception that private transport is much faster

Negatives:
- Slower travel times (in rush hour not really)
- Concern over increased accidents (seems an odd one, nothing to suggest accidents increase as a result of a lower speed limit as far as I know)
- Poor fuel economy from city driving (this is the only negative I can see but this can be countered by using more PT or alternative transport methods. Also the way alot of people drive in the city center anyway, leads to poor fuel economy anyway, so may change nothing).

There are alot of other things that need to be done in conjunction with this. Preferably they would have been already done but it is what it is. Bigger park and ride facilities outside the city centre. Planning permission within the city limits be restricted to taller (than two storey) buildings only unless the land cannot support such changes, to make the city more nucleated. Concerted plan with the NTA to ensure spiral PT routes that are reliable. Green wave light systems on certain routes. Red light cameras. Average speed cameras.

But as a start, it is not a bad idea, and there are no negatives there that cannot be easily countered. Traffic really only dies down to a level that going over 30kmph improves speed in the late evening and overnight, at which time there is possibly an increased risk of pedestrian injury due to poorer lighting conditions (assumption, not proven). Instilling the idea that it will make obedience of speed limits elsewhere less, seems idiotic. Again this can be countered with increased enforcement across the board.

magicbastarder · 07-12-2016 2:53pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They generally are or they wouldn't sell.

i would guess that for commuting, a bike is generally faster than a car. cars still sell.

your objection seemed to be that there was something actually wrong with cars being overtaken by bikes.

Hilly Bill · 07-12-2016 3:09pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Safe for who though? In your book? I am a resident of Dublin, when I'm cycling down Leeson Street Lower, from March 1st I will feel safer that the cars and buses around me are travelling at 30 km/h. If I want to change lanes to take a right turn at Stephens Green, I'll feel much safer that I can get into the right turning lane without being hit by a car.

It will be safer for cyclist and I will possibly get to work quicker.

I've answerd that.

Hilly Bill · 07-12-2016 3:10pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i would guess that for commuting, a bike is generally faster than a car. cars still sell.

your objection seemed to be that there was something actually wrong with cars being overtaken by bikes.

Nope.

jive · 07-12-2016 3:45pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Nope.

Cycling is much quicker if you live anywhere within 20km of Dublin city assuming you're city bound. Many within 10km still drive, people prefer the comfort and most people are a combination of overweight and lazy. Each to their own, but don't whine about traffic and speed limits when you choose modes of transport that contribute to traffic and have to abide by limits for the safety of all road users.

Del2005 · 07-12-2016 3:49pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Quick and safe for who? Motorists? Surely you recognise the councils job is to make commuting quicker and safer for public transport users, pedestrians and cyclists too?

The cause of congestion is the volume of single occupant private car.

If the council wanted to make commuting quicker and safer while reducing the number of single occupant private cars they could do it instantly by removing the thousands of free parking spaces for public sector employees in Dublin.

Dublin @30km

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