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Dublin @30km

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Anytime I've driven the quays the traffic has been doing more than 50 never mind 30, it's even difficult to find the start of the 30 zone. Even in 50 areas I regularly use cruise control and traffic disappears into the distance while I have the following traffic in my boot.

    The council can set the limit as low as they want but until there is enforcement it makes no difference. Yet we'll still have the speed traps on the N4 which is a 2 or 3 lane road with very little pedestrian access, while people can happily speed on the residential roads nearby.

    I drive up the quays along the south side once a week and have never seen a sign stating 30 km/h.

    Are they hoping its assumed everyone knows it's there?
    Quality of life only matters if you aren't dead. Less chance of getting hit by a car travelling at 30 rather than 50 as they can stop quicker.

    Put railings on the paths to stop people wandering onto the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    atticu wrote: »
    So, no improvement in the quality of life.

    Unless you can show me that less noise for longer improves your quality of life over more noise for a shorter time.
    http://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=2013;volume=15;issue=65;spage=224;epage=230;aulast=Welch

    In any case, you're making the mistake that it's "more noise for less time", since the volume of traffic is a constant.

    So it's consistently less noise or consistently more noise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I drive up the quays along the south side once a week and have never seen a sign stating 30 km/h.

    Are they hoping its assumed everyone knows it's there?

    :eek: Wow! MAybe you should rethink your mode of transport and take a bus...while hoping that the bus driver notices the signs :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    How do they plan on monitoring cyclists going over 30km/h?


  • Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭atticu


    seamus wrote: »
    No, purely anecdotal. Though if you're going to argue that people feel just as safe with 50km/h traffic passing their door as they do with 30km/h traffic, then I'm not going to take you very seriously.

    If it is purely anecdotal then don't try and use it to make an argument, I am not going to argue any point, you are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    They are safer if you get hit. Wouldn't you rather be knocked down by a car at 30kph rather than 50kph? Also stopping speed is reduced so less chance of a vehicle not being able to stop before a collision.
    I'd rather be knocked down by a car driving along at 5kph with a man waving a red flag in front, but that doesn't mean it's a good compromise. There are millions of journeys by car every year in the city centre, there has to be some thought given to the impact on quality of life caused by these limits versus the tiny chance that someone might get killed or injured.

    One of the issues I have with this goes back to the low rise sprawl city we have - it's all very well implementing low speed limits in a central area of a modern European city, but in a city which is sprawling out all over the place it has a much greater impact on motorists. Councilors are elected by their local consistuents, and we already know that if people living in the city centre could get a non-overlooked house with 2 acres of grass surrounding it within sight of Grafton Street they'd vote for it if they could.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    :eek: Wow! MAybe you should rethink your mode of transport and take a bus...while hoping that the bus driver notices the signs :pac:

    It appears I'm not the only one with the issue, considering what I was responding to. There is a responsibility for clear and concise signage. Can you even show where it is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'd rather be knocked down by a car driving along at 5kph with a man waving a red flag in front, but that doesn't mean it's a good compromise. There are millions of journeys by car every year in the city centre, there has to be some thought given to the impact on quality of life caused by these limits versus the tiny chance that someone might get killed or injured.

    One of the issues I have with this goes back to the low rise sprawl city we have - it's all very well implementing low speed limits in a central area of a modern European city, but in a city which is sprawling out all over the place it has a much greater impact on motorists. Councilors are elected by their local consistuents, and we already know that if people living in the city centre could get a non-overlooked house with 2 acres of grass surrounding it within sight of Grafton Street they'd vote for it if they could.

    Either way, it's happening and it should lead to less people killed on the roads in Dublin. 29 or so were killed in Dublin crashes in the past 3 years. Is life really that invaluable to people that they couldn't leave the house 5 minutes earlier for their trip?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    hmmm wrote: »
    there has to be some thought given to the impact on quality of life caused by these limits versus the tiny chance that someone might get killed or injured.
    There is. In fact quality of life for those living and working within these areas is a major reason for this speed limit reduction.
    but in a city which is sprawling out all over the place it has a much greater impact on motorists.
    Since average speeds during peak times are well below the limit, what's the problem?

    Outside of peak hours, simply adjust your plan to factor in the reduced speed. The distance from canal to canal is about 3km. The time difference to drive this @ 30km/h -v- 50km/h is less than 3 minutes. That's if you had all green lights.

    So what is the impact on motorists, exactly? A journey might take 3 minutes longer? Oh, the humanity!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    It appears I'm not the only one with the issue, considering what I was responding to. There is a responsibility for clear and concise signage. Can you even show where it is?

    From memory, on the south quay they start coming onto Burgh Quay and are at every junction until the zone ends. Maybe you should look for them the next time you are on the South Quays.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Deedsie wrote: »
    The 30km/h zone is from Grattan Bridge to Butt Bridge. It is clearly sign posted at Grattan bridge. And the 50 km/h signs are clearly there on Butt Bridge. An entire length of 1 km through the busiest pedestrian area in Ireland... And all we hear is whinge whinge whinge

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3460268,-6.2682486,3a,75y,80.73h,89.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOUvB-OuT_AaYM6CC1QWIhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656



    Those railings have caused the deaths of several cyclists left turning trucks have crushed cyclists in thier blind spot. The cyclists had nowhere to go with the railings.

    I mentioned I would be driving along the southside. I actually go up from capel street, over that bridge and then onto the quays. I'm always looking for the 30km/h because I'm aware of the zone, but all I've ever seen so far were about parking, no entries or not going a particular direction.

    The comment about the railings, was more so pedestrians should think about themselves, than expecting drivers to have to all the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    They are safer if you get hit. Wouldn't you rather be knocked down by a car at 30kph rather than 50kph? Also stopping speed is reduced so less chance of a vehicle not being able to stop before a collision.

    How many of these fatalities occur on the quays? Maybe we could gauge the difference between 50km and 30 km...


  • Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭atticu


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Speed limits are coming in March 2017. Lets see in March what difference the speed limits make. I am confident it will improve safety and quality of life for residents and reduce the number of collisions in these areas by people obeying the law.

    I am confident that it will reduce the speed of vehicles in these areas.
    The rest will have to be left for now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭plodder


    Edinburgh was the first city in the UK to do this (20mph limit) and I heard it claimed that residents are broadly in favour (can't find a link to back it up though). It's probably going to be a challenge (to keep to the limit) most of all at night time when traffic levels are low. I think it's a good idea though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Deedsie wrote: »
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3474353,-6.255129,3a,75y,291.82h,78.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssMbgyloBk0zfhybsUbeLyQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    On the Southside its from Butt Bridge to Grattan Bridge. Sign posted at the start just by Butt bridge.

    And again an entire length of 1 km through the busiest pedestrian area in Ireland... And all we hear is whinge whinge whinge

    Thanks. So it seems there are some areas I'm driving it's 30km/h but as I'm coming from Capel St, it's not indicated by signage.

    BTW, I don't get how stating someone should be responsible for themselves is whinging. If this is on the basis of pedestrian safety, I'd be looking to challenge pedestrians or the environment they are expected to use. Reducing speed limits doesn't account for that.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,988 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,988 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    How do they plan on monitoring cyclists going over 30km/h?
    the question is not so much how as it is why.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I wasnt actually saying you were whinging. To be fair you were just trying to identify the area currently affected by the 30km/h speed limit. That is responsible in itself. A little worrying that more dont do that. I have heard people complain about having to drive at 30km/h down by the point. I mean who's fault is that?

    But you surely agree that 1 km of road that transects O'Connell Bridge is a special case speed wise? How many people cross that bridge per day?

    I agree completely there is not enough signage to highlight the speed limit along the 30 km/h section.

    Amazing really because usually there is excessive signage all across Dublin and Ireland, multiple bus stop sign within a couple of metres of each other etc
    I like the approach they take in Germany. In built up areas, there is just a fixed speed limit that is not shown (you are supposed to know what it is). Only the exceptions to it are displayed.

    So, what they could do here, is just show the exceptions on the arterial routes and (somehow) make it understood that it is 30km every where else. It would be crazy to try and put up 30km signs on each road.

    Either way, it needs to be clear. It's not fair to enforce low limits unless they are very clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    How do they plan on monitoring cyclists going over 30km/h?

    The "Special" speed limit only applies to MPVs (mechanically propelled vehicles) and therefore cyclists are not governed by that restriction.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Paul_Mc1988


    I'd love to know how the expect to police this is the likes of Crumlin and drimnagh. A flash for cash van wouldn't last pissing time in parts of those areas.

    P.S I live in the locality so I'm not a begrudger just my personal observations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Thanks. So it seems there are some areas I'm driving it's 30km/h but as I'm coming from Capel St, it's not indicated by signage.

    Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    Delighted by this move, I look forward to further curtailment of vehicular traffic in my area. I'm disappointed we're not in the initial plan. D6 area.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:

    The whole area there is 30km from Bolton St. down and from Gardiner St. accross


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Or maybe it's because Capel st is a 30 speed limit area already :rolleyes:

    You'd never get more than 20 with lights and traffic on that road.

    But I haven't seen a sign for 30 km/h along there either after going on from Parnell St. Looking over Google street view and I still don't see one. (granted it's from 2 1/2 years ago and could have been updated since.)

    Someone posting up earlier about a "default" speed limit of sorts. We have one. It's 50. 30 is very much the exception.

    Edit:
    Ok, so I've found where that 30 km/h limit sign is right at the start of Parnell St. hmmm if you miss it you're done for.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Dublin @30km

    That's just 18 miles per hour :cool:

    1st gear in some cars, or 2nd gear in others . . . .

    Sounds like its toooo slooowwww to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'd rather be knocked down by a car driving along at 5kph with a man waving a red flag in front, but that doesn't mean it's a good compromise. There are millions of journeys by car every year in the city centre, there has to be some thought given to the impact on quality of life caused by these limits versus the tiny chance that someone might get killed or injured.

    One of the issues I have with this goes back to the low rise sprawl city we have - it's all very well implementing low speed limits in a central area of a modern European city, but in a city which is sprawling out all over the place it has a much greater impact on motorists. Councilors are elected by their local consistuents, and we already know that if people living in the city centre could get a non-overlooked house with 2 acres of grass surrounding it within sight of Grafton Street they'd vote for it if they could.

    Probably the most accurate summation of this "initiative" by our Local Councillors.

    It might serve these fellows better if they stood back a bit,and addressed Hmmm's point regarding population density in central Dublin as it's current configuration stands as a barrier to ANY success making Dublin an accessible city for everybody to enjoy.

    Right now,Dublin requires a LARGE increase in Bus Frequency,in addition to DART/Suburban Rail improvements,two elements which,if combined with outer-ring Park & Ride facilities,would produce far better results.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I' going to do a test drive @30kh/h tonight on the way home, (just to see how I get on at such a slow speed). Will report back later this evening.

    Cheers 4 now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    LordSutch wrote: »
    That's just 18 miles per hour :cool:

    1st gear in some cars, or 2nd gear in others . . . .

    Sounds like its toooo slooowwww to me.

    Too slow....dangerously so IMO,as it will lead to far greater levels of indecision,which again,IMO,is a far greater,albeit unacknowledged,factor in Road Traffic Incidents in Ireland.

    Lets face it,the numbers of children injured or killed in Driveway accidents involving parents vehicles reversing or manouvering,will not be impacted in the least by this initiative.

    Every ill designed residential estate in this country suffers a daily plague of "School Run" insanity largely based upon some need to park an MPV as close to the School premisies as possible,before making several,ever more erratic attempts,to turn the thing around....I have personally witnessed these journeys being made simply to collect schoolbags,whilst the children then WALK/RUN home to the bottom of the estate :eek:.....No amount of 30Km/h speed limits will address these levels of imbicility. :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



This discussion has been closed.
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