Irish Parachute Club crash

Cmar-Ireland · 13-05-2018 3:41pm #1

I'm at the IPC at the moment. Looks like the jump plane has crashed. Pilot and one other on board. Rescue helicpoter on scene. No other news.

beanian · 13-05-2018 6:46pm

was it the porter EI-IAN?

Quazzie · 13-05-2018 6:53pm

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

I'm at the IPC at the moment. Looks like the jump plane has crashed. Pilot and one other on board. Rescue helicpoter on scene. No other news.

Offaly Express reporting two fatalities, but no other news source is reporting anything other than serious injuries. UK based pilot and a local 7 year old child on board.

Danny Donut · 13-05-2018 6:55pm

On RTE now

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0513/963243-offaly-plane-crash/

Very sad.

Auguste Comte · 13-05-2018 6:56pm

beanian wrote: »

was it the porter EI-IAN?

I don't think that's operating at the moment, they have a cessna 208 for the summer. I hope it's not as bad as is being suggested.

Cmar-Ireland · 13-05-2018 7:25pm

beanian wrote: »

was it the porter EI-IAN?

It was a turbine prop aircraft. I don't know what designation.

Cmar-Ireland · 13-05-2018 7:30pm

I watched it take off, didn't seem like anything was amiss. But I'm no expert on the subject...

EchoIndia · 13-05-2018 7:56pm

It is this aircraft, I would say. https://flic.kr/p/25ziJdK

billie1b · 13-05-2018 9:19pm

G-KNYS Cessna Caravan

Kuva · 13-05-2018 10:11pm

Engine was at full power, pilot would know area so would know flat fields...I'm assuming one doesn't intentionally aim for bog to emergency land in? You'd just dig in?

So what breaks to cause loss of control?

RustyNut · 13-05-2018 10:15pm

Kuva wrote: »

Engine was at full power.

Do you mind me asking how you know this?

Kuva · 13-05-2018 10:21pm

RustyNut wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you know this?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-and-boy-7-on-board-light-aircraft-which-crashed-into-offaly-bog-1.3493730?mode=amp

^^^

"Sounded like it does when taking off, hit ground like a torpedo"

L1011 · 13-05-2018 10:22pm

That isn't proof of full power.

Any amateur AAIU attempts from now on will be carded

RustyNut · 13-05-2018 10:24pm

Kuva wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-and-boy-7-on-board-light-aircraft-which-crashed-into-offaly-bog-1.3493730?mode=amp

^^^

"Sounded like it does when taking off, hit ground like a torpedo"

That sounds awful. RIP

Stheno · 13-05-2018 10:38pm

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tragic-incident-man-and-boy-7-die-after-aircraft-crashes-in-co-offaly-36902123.html

RIP
god love their families

Tenger · 13-05-2018 11:05pm

Lets us take a moment and recognize that this incident involved fatalities.
More details will emerge over the next 12-24 hours. Please try to keep wild speculation to a minimum.
It would be appreciated if sources for info are quoted, as above, which is good.
However the IT article includes an eye witness which is subjective. Just a point to keep in mind

Gen.Zhukov · 13-05-2018 11:45pm

I'm very sorry for the people involved and their families.

Just a point of note.

When I was in that club years ago, the pilot always wore a chute. I don't know if that was personal choice or SOP. There were so many things that could have gone wrong with people exiting the craft that perhaps our pilot just didn't want to take any unnecessary risks. In this case it seems, all the jumpers were long gone.

There may also have been the added complications of having the young lad on board. No matter what the situation, it's tragic.

Odyssey 2005 · 14-05-2018 12:07am

Was at a show in offaly few years ago. Light plane doing his thing and I asked the pilot(well respected commercial pilot) if he'd take my young lad up. No problem. He loved the trip.
This could have been the same.,a routine flight and the pilot took a lad for a spin....a tragic outcome. Rip to them both. I'll hug my lad a little tighter than usual when I see him next...

smurfjed · 14-05-2018 5:01am

I built my flight hours dropping skydivers in a different Irish Club, it was like being part of a family and is a completely different atmosphere from your normal flying club or school, my heart therefore goes out to the family.

@Odyssey 2005, but your child had a spin that he might talk about for years. T

Odyssey 2005 · 14-05-2018 7:04am

smurfjed wrote: »

I built my flight hours dropping skydivers in a different Irish Club, it was like being part of a family and is a completely different atmosphere from your normal flying club or school, my heart therefore goes out to the family.

@Odyssey 2005, but your child had a spin that he might talk about for years. T

He had. And he does,to this day !
I'm eternally grateful to that pilot for giving him that experience.

Quazzie · 14-05-2018 9:03am

As a local lad, i was regularly up in the planes as a kid in the IPC. Never once did I feel in danger, or did anyone that was there. A really well run club, and as smurfjed says, there is a real family vibe from the regulars there. Terrible tragedy, and not one that could've been predicted from what I gather.

homerjay2005 · 14-05-2018 9:52am

this is an awful tragedy, cant imagine what both families are going through but especially the loss of a 7 year old boy whose father was onboard moments earlier, is truely horrific

may they rest in peace

rustynutz · 14-05-2018 12:04pm

I was a regular skydiver in the IPC for several years, it's a well ran club with safety at the forefront, as mentioned there is a real family vibe to the place, this is just awful tragic news, particularly when it involves a child.

My thoughts are with all involved in the IPC, this is bound to be devastating for everyone, not least the father who was trying to do something special for his kid.

RIP to both

Stovepipe · 14-05-2018 7:46pm

Very, very sad news. IPC are a great bunch. RIP.

Gaoth Laidir · 14-05-2018 8:32pm

rustynutz wrote: »

I was a regular skydiver in the IPC for several years, it's a well ran club with safety at the forefront, as mentioned there is a real family vibe to the place, this is just awful tragic news, particularly when it involves a child.

My thoughts are with all involved in the IPC, this is bound to be devastating for everyone, not least the father who was trying to do something special for his kid.

RIP to both

SNIP

It's a tragedy for everyone, but not least for the father, who had to attend the scene afterwards and finally see his young son's body recovered. That must be the worst nightmare for anyone.

Thoughts are with the families of the two.

14-05-2018 9:05pm

Kuva wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-and-boy-7-on-board-light-aircraft-which-crashed-into-offaly-bog-1.3493730?mode=amp

^^^

"Sounded like it does when taking off, hit ground like a torpedo"

Turbines sound much the same in any power setting, so such an observation is of little relevance e except to note that the engine was operational.

An Ri rua · 14-05-2018 9:23pm

Deleted User wrote:

Turbines sound much the same in any power setting, so such an observation is of little relevance e except to note that the engine was operational.

I have to say, its anecdotal, but I wouldn't agree with you at all. Country people, particularly men, know the sounds and rhythms of engines and particularly those in everyday proximity to such phenomenae. I would put some store in a middle-aged man, who is used to tractors, ditchers, bog machinery and in this case these handful of local aircraft. I simply wouldn't just rule it out as you seem to be.

God help all involved. RIP to deceased.

PS major incident there less than a decade ago regarding insufficient fuel on an unfamiliar craft. Not relevant to this tragedy other than to hold back on the superlatives re health and safety. Time will tell how it occurred. But a highly experienced pilot has passed on, as has a little gosun. Poor divils.

Gaoth Laidir · 14-05-2018 11:24pm

If it was in a nosedive then wouldn't windmilling increase the rpm anyway?

Irish Steve · 14-05-2018 11:55pm

The Caravan is a turbo prop engine, which is fitted with a CONSTANT SPEED propeller, so a prop speed will be set by the pilot, and the engine management system will monitor and control the rotational speed, which then remains the same throughout the flight, through take off, climb, descent and landing. It has reverse thrust capability, and while I am not 100% sure of the facts on this, I have seen and watched other turbo prop aircraft used prop settings that meant they were able to descend from height at a considerably faster rate than the parachutists that had just jumped from the aircraft, unlike the piston engine aircraft that were used for many years, which had to keep significant power set on the engine to avoid shock cooling and significant damage.

So, and please can we stop the speculation about engine speeds, the engine speed would have been the same for take off, level flight, high speed descent and landing, the engine rotational speed would not vary, what would change would be the propeller pitch, which would then influence the power available for the various stages of flight.

15-05-2018 12:16am

An Ri rua wrote: »

I have to say, its anecdotal, but I wouldn't agree with you at all. Country people, particularly men, know the sounds and rhythms of engines and particularly those in everyday proximity to such phenomenae. I would put some store in a middle-aged man, who is used to tractors, ditchers, bog machinery and in this case these handful of local aircraft. I simply wouldn't just rule it out as you seem to be.

God help all involved. RIP to deceased.

PS major incident there less than a decade ago regarding insufficient fuel on an unfamiliar craft. Not relevant to this tragedy other than to hold back on the superlatives re health and safety. Time will tell how it occurred. But a highly experienced pilot has passed on, as has a little gosun. Poor divils.

All very tragic and my deepest condolences to the families and all involved. What I mean is that in comparison to the usual pitching up and down and sometimes spluttering of piston engines (when throttle applied suddenly) which are far more common in light aircraft, the turbine engine is far more steady in its sound. Naturally it will get louder the nearer it is to the observer. I used to fly little old pistons which would hiccup and even backfire if I pulled the throttle back a bit too suddenly. An observer on the ground might say “that’s in trouble”, and far from the case it was just a characteristic of those other like engines. When I would practice pretend engine failures I’d descend silently to legal minimum of 500ft before climbing out again, having picked a field I would have made it into in a real-case scenario, and observers on the ground in county Meath might be thinking “that’s going down, it’s got no engine. Pilots have to practice scenarios of failed engines and stalls to keep sharp, as long as it’s done without undue risk.

15-05-2018 12:28am

Irish Steve wrote: »

The Caravan is a turbo prop engine, which is fitted with a CONSTANT SPEED propeller, so a prop speed will be set by the pilot, and the engine management system will monitor and control the rotational speed, which then remains the same throughout the flight, through take off, climb, descent and landing. It has reverse thrust capability, and while I am not 100% sure of the facts on this, I have seen and watched other turbo prop aircraft used prop settings that meant they were able to descend from height at a considerably faster rate than the parachutists that had just jumped from the aircraft, unlike the piston engine aircraft that were used for many years, which had to keep significant power set on the engine to avoid shock cooling and significant damage.

So, and please can we stop the speculation about engine speeds, the engine speed would have been the same for take off, level flight, high speed descent and landing, the engine rotational speed would not vary, what would change would be the propeller pitch, which would then influence the power available for the various stages of flight.

A Caravan pilot with whom I took a flight in these beautiful, comfortable aircraft was telling me how delightful the machine is to fly, and how easy he found transitioning from the two and four seaters he started in.

Kuva · 15-05-2018 10:05am

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-kris-Billy-families

John_Rambo · 15-05-2018 12:44pm

Kuva wrote: »

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-kris-Billy-families

Done. Thanks.

Quazzie · 15-05-2018 1:00pm

Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves

PCX · 15-05-2018 1:14pm

Quazzie wrote: »

Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves

I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.

Quazzie · 15-05-2018 1:26pm

PCX wrote: »

I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.

That's enough for me so. I'll make my donation now. Thanks

EchoIndia · 21-03-2020 12:05pm

Final report on this accident now published. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/G-KNYS%20Final%20Report.pdf

Synopsis:

The Cessna 208B aircraft took off from Runway 27 at Clonbullogue Airfield
(EICL), Co. Offaly at approximately 13.14 hrs. On board were the Pilot and a
Passenger (a child), who were seated in the cockpit, and 16 skydivers, who
occupied the main cabin. The skydivers jumped from the aircraft, as planned,
when the aircraft was overhead EICL at an altitude of approximately 13,000
feet. When the aircraft was returning to the airfield, the Pilot advised by
radio that he was on ‘left base’ (the flight leg which precedes the
approach leg and which is normally approximately perpendicular to the
extended centreline of the runway). No further radio transmissions were
received. A short while later, it was established that the aircraft had
impacted nose-down into a forested peat bog at Ballaghassan, Co. Offaly,
approximately 2.5 nautical miles (4.6 kilometres) to the north-west of EICL.
The aircraft was destroyed. There was no fire. The Pilot and Passenger were
fatally injured.

The Investigation determined that the probable cause of the accident was a
loss of control in a steeply banked left-hand turn, leading to a rapid loss
of altitude. Four Safety Recommendations are made as a result of this
Investigation.

21-03-2020 2:15pm

I’ve yet to hear anything that speaks well of that club, and indeed some other areas of hobby-focussed aviation. There’s far too much poor airmanship in practice and responsible participants need to stand up firmly against it. No good hand-wringing when totally needless death happens. It’s too late then. I’ve known rigorously good hobby aviators to abandon it because of this type of scenario pervading the scene and I’m not afraid to speak out about it.

faoiarvok · 22-03-2020 5:03pm

Reading former Air Corps pilot Declan Daly’s Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Kindle at the moment, and aside from being generally very frank and interesting, he has an account of getting tasked to this crash.

Worth a look if you’re so inclined:
Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Amazon

StackSteevens · 12-10-2020 3:08pm

The parents of the boy killed in the crash at Clonbullogue have started legal action against the Irish Parachute Club and the aircraft owner/operator

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/parents-of-boy-killed-in-2018-air-crash-sue-for-psychiatric-shock-and-loss-1.4378028

sailing · 12-10-2020 3:57pm

It’s no different to a car accident where a death has occurred really. It will probably result in a settlement of some sort from the insurance company. The Published crash report makes very for very grim reading.

PCX · 12-10-2020 4:22pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/parents-of-boy-killed-in-2018-air-crash-sue-for-psychiatric-shock-and-loss-1.4378028

They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?

StackSteevens · 12-10-2020 4:52pm

PCX wrote: »

They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?

So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

StackSteevens · 12-10-2020 4:55pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

That's a bit rough StackSteevens.

Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate.

12-10-2020 4:59pm

Please goodness this will give the parents a focus, where their pain can be publicly acknowledged, as well as maybe furthering safety. It can only be horrendous for them, anybody's worst nightmare come true for them.

12-10-2020 5:04pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate.

They would have been insured, and anything that censures bad flying practices in hobby/sport aviation is desirable. Very difficult for the pilot's family of course too, that has to be acknowledged. There are no winners. When it starts to affect insurance cover, then maybe safety measures may be enhanced. If it has that effect it would be a very good thing. The parents too may not have been able to work properly or function since the event.

Kevhog1988 · 12-10-2020 5:05pm

The poor familys of both deceased. Im from close to edenderry and my son was the same age.

PCX · 12-10-2020 5:08pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

I can't imagine what I would do if I was in the position of Kasper's parents and I hope I am never in a position to find out.

I do think it is absolutely disgusting to throw slurs at them at them given what they are going through.

I understand some people aren't wired to experience empathy but you should at least try.

12-10-2020 5:09pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

If it enforces good practices and helps prevent future tragedies, the thought of that alone would bring some solace. If it exposes bad practices in hobby aviation in this country it will serve well.

smurfjed · 12-10-2020 5:32pm

Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?

StupidLikeAFox · 12-10-2020 5:53pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?

This is what the courts are there to do. They will work out who is at fault and to what degree they are at fault

I appreciate that people don't like compo culture but Jesus, surely this kind of situation is the whole point of having insurance in the first place.

Irish Parachute Club crash

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