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Irish Parachute Club crash

  • 13-05-2018 2:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭


    I'm at the IPC at the moment. Looks like the jump plane has crashed. Pilot and one other on board. Rescue helicpoter on scene. No other news.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭beanian


    was it the porter EI-IAN?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,219 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I'm at the IPC at the moment. Looks like the jump plane has crashed. Pilot and one other on board. Rescue helicpoter on scene. No other news.

    Offaly Express reporting two fatalities, but no other news source is reporting anything other than serious injuries. UK based pilot and a local 7 year old child on board.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Danny Donut




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    beanian wrote: »
    was it the porter EI-IAN?

    I don't think that's operating at the moment, they have a cessna 208 for the summer. I hope it's not as bad as is being suggested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭Cmar-Ireland


    beanian wrote: »
    was it the porter EI-IAN?

    It was a turbine prop aircraft. I don't know what designation.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭Cmar-Ireland


    I watched it take off, didn't seem like anything was amiss. But I'm no expert on the subject...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    It is this aircraft, I would say. https://flic.kr/p/25ziJdK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭billie1b


    G-KNYS Cessna Caravan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva


    Engine was at full power, pilot would know area so would know flat fields...I'm assuming one doesn't intentionally aim for bog to emergency land in? You'd just dig in?

    So what breaks to cause loss of control?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Kuva wrote: »
    Engine was at full power.

    Do you mind me asking how you know this?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Do you mind me asking how you know this?
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-and-boy-7-on-board-light-aircraft-which-crashed-into-offaly-bog-1.3493730?mode=amp

    ^^^

    "Sounded like it does when taking off, hit ground like a torpedo"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,192 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That isn't proof of full power.

    Any amateur AAIU attempts from now on will be carded


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Kuva wrote: »

    That sounds awful. RIP


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Lets us take a moment and recognize that this incident involved fatalities.
    More details will emerge over the next 12-24 hours. Please try to keep wild speculation to a minimum.
    It would be appreciated if sources for info are quoted, as above, which is good.
    However the IT article includes an eye witness which is subjective. Just a point to keep in mind


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    I'm very sorry for the people involved and their families.

    Just a point of note.

    When I was in that club years ago, the pilot always wore a chute. I don't know if that was personal choice or SOP. There were so many things that could have gone wrong with people exiting the craft that perhaps our pilot just didn't want to take any unnecessary risks. In this case it seems, all the jumpers were long gone.

    There may also have been the added complications of having the young lad on board. No matter what the situation, it's tragic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Was at a show in offaly few years ago. Light plane doing his thing and I asked the pilot(well respected commercial pilot) if he'd take my young lad up. No problem. He loved the trip.
    This could have been the same.,a routine flight and the pilot took a lad for a spin....a tragic outcome. Rip to them both. I'll hug my lad a little tighter than usual when I see him next...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,350 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    I built my flight hours dropping skydivers in a different Irish Club, it was like being part of a family and is a completely different atmosphere from your normal flying club or school, my heart therefore goes out to the family.

    @Odyssey 2005, but your child had a spin that he might talk about for years. T


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    smurfjed wrote: »
    I built my flight hours dropping skydivers in a different Irish Club, it was like being part of a family and is a completely different atmosphere from your normal flying club or school, my heart therefore goes out to the family.

    @Odyssey 2005, but your child had a spin that he might talk about for years. T
    He had. And he does,to this day !
    I'm eternally grateful to that pilot for giving him that experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,219 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    As a local lad, i was regularly up in the planes as a kid in the IPC. Never once did I feel in danger, or did anyone that was there. A really well run club, and as smurfjed says, there is a real family vibe from the regulars there. Terrible tragedy, and not one that could've been predicted from what I gather.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    this is an awful tragedy, cant imagine what both families are going through but especially the loss of a 7 year old boy whose father was onboard moments earlier, is truely horrific

    may they rest in peace :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 792 ✭✭✭rustynutz


    I was a regular skydiver in the IPC for several years, it's a well ran club with safety at the forefront, as mentioned there is a real family vibe to the place, this is just awful tragic news, particularly when it involves a child.

    My thoughts are with all involved in the IPC, this is bound to be devastating for everyone, not least the father who was trying to do something special for his kid.

    RIP to both


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Very, very sad news. IPC are a great bunch. RIP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    rustynutz wrote: »
    I was a regular skydiver in the IPC for several years, it's a well ran club with safety at the forefront, as mentioned there is a real family vibe to the place, this is just awful tragic news, particularly when it involves a child.

    My thoughts are with all involved in the IPC, this is bound to be devastating for everyone, not least the father who was trying to do something special for his kid.

    RIP to both
    SNIP

    It's a tragedy for everyone, but not least for the father, who had to attend the scene afterwards and finally see his young son's body recovered. That must be the worst nightmare for anyone.

    Thoughts are with the families of the two.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Kuva wrote: »

    Turbines sound much the same in any power setting, so such an observation is of little relevance e except to note that the engine was operational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Turbines sound much the same in any power setting, so such an observation is of little relevance e except to note that the engine was operational.


    I have to say, its anecdotal, but I wouldn't agree with you at all. Country people, particularly men, know the sounds and rhythms of engines and particularly those in everyday proximity to such phenomenae. I would put some store in a middle-aged man, who is used to tractors, ditchers, bog machinery and in this case these handful of local aircraft. I simply wouldn't just rule it out as you seem to be.

    God help all involved. RIP to deceased.

    PS major incident there less than a decade ago regarding insufficient fuel on an unfamiliar craft. Not relevant to this tragedy other than to hold back on the superlatives re health and safety. Time will tell how it occurred. But a highly experienced pilot has passed on, as has a little gosun. Poor divils.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    If it was in a nosedive then wouldn't windmilling increase the rpm anyway?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The Caravan is a turbo prop engine, which is fitted with a CONSTANT SPEED propeller, so a prop speed will be set by the pilot, and the engine management system will monitor and control the rotational speed, which then remains the same throughout the flight, through take off, climb, descent and landing. It has reverse thrust capability, and while I am not 100% sure of the facts on this, I have seen and watched other turbo prop aircraft used prop settings that meant they were able to descend from height at a considerably faster rate than the parachutists that had just jumped from the aircraft, unlike the piston engine aircraft that were used for many years, which had to keep significant power set on the engine to avoid shock cooling and significant damage.

    So, and please can we stop the speculation about engine speeds, the engine speed would have been the same for take off, level flight, high speed descent and landing, the engine rotational speed would not vary, what would change would be the propeller pitch, which would then influence the power available for the various stages of flight.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    I have to say, its anecdotal, but I wouldn't agree with you at all. Country people, particularly men, know the sounds and rhythms of engines and particularly those in everyday proximity to such phenomenae. I would put some store in a middle-aged man, who is used to tractors, ditchers, bog machinery and in this case these handful of local aircraft. I simply wouldn't just rule it out as you seem to be.

    God help all involved. RIP to deceased.

    PS major incident there less than a decade ago regarding insufficient fuel on an unfamiliar craft. Not relevant to this tragedy other than to hold back on the superlatives re health and safety. Time will tell how it occurred. But a highly experienced pilot has passed on, as has a little gosun. Poor divils.

    All very tragic and my deepest condolences to the families and all involved. What I mean is that in comparison to the usual pitching up and down and sometimes spluttering of piston engines (when throttle applied suddenly) which are far more common in light aircraft, the turbine engine is far more steady in its sound. Naturally it will get louder the nearer it is to the observer. I used to fly little old pistons which would hiccup and even backfire if I pulled the throttle back a bit too suddenly. An observer on the ground might say “that’s in trouble”, and far from the case it was just a characteristic of those other like engines. When I would practice pretend engine failures I’d descend silently to legal minimum of 500ft before climbing out again, having picked a field I would have made it into in a real-case scenario, and observers on the ground in county Meath might be thinking “that’s going down, it’s got no engine. Pilots have to practice scenarios of failed engines and stalls to keep sharp, as long as it’s done without undue risk.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Caravan is a turbo prop engine, which is fitted with a CONSTANT SPEED propeller, so a prop speed will be set by the pilot, and the engine management system will monitor and control the rotational speed, which then remains the same throughout the flight, through take off, climb, descent and landing. It has reverse thrust capability, and while I am not 100% sure of the facts on this, I have seen and watched other turbo prop aircraft used prop settings that meant they were able to descend from height at a considerably faster rate than the parachutists that had just jumped from the aircraft, unlike the piston engine aircraft that were used for many years, which had to keep significant power set on the engine to avoid shock cooling and significant damage.

    So, and please can we stop the speculation about engine speeds, the engine speed would have been the same for take off, level flight, high speed descent and landing, the engine rotational speed would not vary, what would change would be the propeller pitch, which would then influence the power available for the various stages of flight.

    A Caravan pilot with whom I took a flight in these beautiful, comfortable aircraft was telling me how delightful the machine is to fly, and how easy he found transitioning from the two and four seaters he started in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,965 ✭✭✭John_Rambo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,219 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

    It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    Quazzie wrote: »
    Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

    It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves

    I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,219 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    PCX wrote: »
    I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.

    That's enough for me so. I'll make my donation now. Thanks


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Final report on this accident now published. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/G-KNYS%20Final%20Report.pdf

    Synopsis:


    The Cessna 208B aircraft took off from Runway 27 at Clonbullogue Airfield
    (EICL), Co. Offaly at approximately 13.14 hrs. On board were the Pilot and a
    Passenger (a child), who were seated in the cockpit, and 16 skydivers, who
    occupied the main cabin. The skydivers jumped from the aircraft, as planned,
    when the aircraft was overhead EICL at an altitude of approximately 13,000
    feet. When the aircraft was returning to the airfield, the Pilot advised by
    radio that he was on ‘left base’ (the flight leg which precedes the
    approach leg and which is normally approximately perpendicular to the
    extended centreline of the runway). No further radio transmissions were
    received. A short while later, it was established that the aircraft had
    impacted nose-down into a forested peat bog at Ballaghassan, Co. Offaly,
    approximately 2.5 nautical miles (4.6 kilometres) to the north-west of EICL.
    The aircraft was destroyed. There was no fire. The Pilot and Passenger were
    fatally injured.

    The Investigation determined that the probable cause of the accident was a
    loss of control in a steeply banked left-hand turn, leading to a rapid loss
    of altitude. Four Safety Recommendations are made as a result of this
    Investigation.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’ve yet to hear anything that speaks well of that club, and indeed some other areas of hobby-focussed aviation. There’s far too much poor airmanship in practice and responsible participants need to stand up firmly against it. No good hand-wringing when totally needless death happens. It’s too late then. I’ve known rigorously good hobby aviators to abandon it because of this type of scenario pervading the scene and I’m not afraid to speak out about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    Reading former Air Corps pilot Declan Daly’s Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Kindle at the moment, and aside from being generally very frank and interesting, he has an account of getting tasked to this crash.

    Worth a look if you’re so inclined:
    Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Amazon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    The parents of the boy killed in the crash at Clonbullogue have started legal action against the Irish Parachute Club and the aircraft owner/operator

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/parents-of-boy-killed-in-2018-air-crash-sue-for-psychiatric-shock-and-loss-1.4378028


  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭sailing


    It’s no different to a car accident where a death has occurred really. It will probably result in a settlement of some sort from the insurance company. The Published crash report makes very for very grim reading.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX




    They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

    Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    PCX wrote: »

    They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

    Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?


    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    That's a bit rough StackSteevens.

    Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate. :(


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Please goodness this will give the parents a focus, where their pain can be publicly acknowledged, as well as maybe furthering safety. It can only be horrendous for them, anybody's worst nightmare come true for them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate. :(

    They would have been insured, and anything that censures bad flying practices in hobby/sport aviation is desirable. Very difficult for the pilot's family of course too, that has to be acknowledged. There are no winners. When it starts to affect insurance cover, then maybe safety measures may be enhanced. If it has that effect it would be a very good thing. The parents too may not have been able to work properly or function since the event.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    The poor familys of both deceased. Im from close to edenderry and my son was the same age.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    I can't imagine what I would do if I was in the position of Kasper's parents and I hope I am never in a position to find out.

    I do think it is absolutely disgusting to throw slurs at them at them given what they are going through.

    I understand some people aren't wired to experience empathy but you should at least try.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    If it enforces good practices and helps prevent future tragedies, the thought of that alone would bring some solace. If it exposes bad practices in hobby aviation in this country it will serve well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,350 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?

    This is what the courts are there to do. They will work out who is at fault and to what degree they are at fault

    I appreciate that people don't like compo culture but Jesus, surely this kind of situation is the whole point of having insurance in the first place.


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