School patronage

Treppen · 01-12-2020 5:03pm

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that. And not even because kids want to dress fancy or show off or any of that nonsense. For the simple fact that school uniforms are uncomfortable. Nobody likes wearing them. If they did, then teachers would wear them (a teachers version of them) too.

touched a nerve there I have.

Btw , just to further trigger your uniqueness:pac: I wear practically the same style every day. Shirt, suit trousers, tie.
I think it's great, zero hassle involved. Change when i get home. To me it's a uniform and I like it.

lazygal · 01-12-2020 5:40pm

Treppen wrote: »

Btw , just to further trigger your uniqueness:pac: I wear practically the same style every day. Shirt, suit trousers, tie.
I think it's great, zero hassle involved. Change when i get home. To me it's a uniform and I like it.

Great to be able to choose to have a certain style to wear at a time of your choosing.
By sixth class in our school the look seems to be leggings :eek:, jeans, or similar worn with hoodies/jumpers. Great to see the individual looks from those who want to stand out. No bullying about who wears what.

I can't see how bullying is resolved by making everyone dress the same. I had to wear glasses. Should the bullying have been resolved by making me wear contact lenses or making everyone else in the class wear frames so we all looked the same?

robindch · 01-12-2020 6:08pm

Mark Hamill wrote: »

That she immediately dumps the uniform at her first available opportunity kind of supports my point that they are not really liked.

And I take off my sailing gear when I'm done sailing :rolleyes:

Mark Hamill wrote: »

School uniforms are a schools way of admitting such problems exist, but then washing their hands of them.

You can certainly spin it that way. Easier to view them as a means to avoiding certainly problems which are harder to avoid by other means.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You can solve the early morning angst by teaching kids to sort out their outfits the night before.

robindch · 01-12-2020 6:16pm

smacl wrote: »

My youngest is going to an ET secondary and there is no issue with what to wear.

It might depend on who's in the class too - a small number of fashionistos/as could exert social pressure on others to conform, and if these fashion-leaders are from higher-earning families, the kids of lower-earning families could end up annoyed that they had a hard time competing - which is unfortunately what happened in my own kid's class. It may not happen in every class, or even in a majority of classes, and I certainly don't have a clue if any reliable research has been done in this area which might answer the question any more accurately.

Bannasidhe · 01-12-2020 6:45pm

smacl wrote: »

To be fair, something about adding any kind of a hat improves many outfits. You possibly missed out on the ankle length tartan skirt made from fibre rejected as being unsuitable for coarse tweed on the grounds of being too itchy?

My uniform was blissfully lacking in tweed but the pure wool beret could be a bit scratchy around the scalp on a hot day, however I am fairly sure that Granddaughter is wearing exactly that skirt you speak of - a tartan pattern inspired by the legendary blood sucking midgies of the Isle of Skye.

Funnily enough, I noticed that the RC schools in Oz seemed to favour those skirts, always wondered about the thought processes that came up with that in a climate where 21c is considered so cold they close the outdoor swimming pools.

My sister went to a different school, she had Nuns. Nuns with notions. Nuns who kept changing the uniform. One incarnation involved a primrose shirt and a cowboy style shoestring tie. We have photographic evidence.

smacl · 01-12-2020 7:26pm

robindch wrote: »

It might depend on who's in the class too - a small number of fashionistos/as could exert social pressure on others to conform, and if these fashion-leaders are from higher-earning families, the kids of lower-earning families could end up annoyed that they had a hard time competing - which is unfortunately what happened in my own kid's class. It may not happen in every class, or even in a majority of classes, and I certainly don't have a clue if any reliable research has been done in this area which might answer the question any more accurately.

Could be the case but I haven't seen it. My girls and their friends are more into depop and Wish for their gear which is far from expensive. The stuff they're done with also often ends up back on depop. No doubt different cliques have different behaviour but the worst of what I've seen among my youngest's peers in recent years is the money being spent on fake tans, heavy makeup and outfits that remind me of an early 80s Olivia Newton John from Grease. Surprisingly uniform in its own way and a bit bleak but not particularly expensive. I seem to have escaped this with my two where they look more to the likes of Noel Fielding and the cast of Skins than Nicki Minaj or Cardi B for fashion inspiration.

Peregrinus · 02-12-2020 2:39am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Funnily enough, I noticed that the RC schools in Oz seemed to favour those skirts, always wondered about the thought processes that came up with that in a climate where 21c is considered so cold they close the outdoor swimming pools.

Schools in Oz (that have uniforms, which is most non-government schools and many government schools) typically have a summer uniform and a winter uniform, and rules about when each may be worn.

Or - and this is common in primary schools - they have not so much a uniform as a wardrobe of shorts, trousers, skirts, dresses, shirts and blouses, all lin the school colours and/or suitably badged, and pupils can pick-and-mix as they prefer, according to taste, the weather conditions and what they can find in the pile on their bedroom floor.

Bannasidhe · 02-12-2020 10:42am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Or - and this is common in primary schools - they have not so much a uniform as a wardrobe of shorts, trousers, skirts, dresses, shirts and blouses, all lin the school colours and/or suitably badged, and pupils can pick-and-mix as they prefer, according to taste, the weather conditions and what they can find in the pile on their bedroom floor.

My experience confirms this appears to be the case.

What I appreciated was, at least in the 2 Govt schools my chungfella went to, the branded stuff was available from the school, good quality and reasonably priced.
My recollection is the only 'specific' stuff was a fleece and a tie. The rest was 'school colours' but could be bought anywhere. When they told me the price I obviously looked shocked as they said I could pay the $20 in installments but couldn't have the top until it was paid off. I was shocked, I had $100 on me and was hoping that was enough.

20 years later I still have his fleece top from Brisbane, I wear it gardening, It says "Camp Hill High" which amuses me every time.
The quickly went out of shape expensive crested Irish jumpers are long gone.

My view of uniforms is that they can level the playing field a bit but like most other things associated with the education system in Ireland have often become about snobbery and gouging.
There is no justification for €50 track suit pants. Everything does not need to be branded but as usual in Ireland we had to take a simple idea, monetise it, then give someone a monopoly on supplying it.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-12-2020 1:05pm

Large "Voluntary" contributions and excessively expensive crested clothing are an effective way of keeping the riff-raff out of those non-fee paying schools which have notions about themselves

These schools all claim to espouse a christian ethos!!!

smacl · 02-12-2020 1:59pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My view of uniforms is that they can level the playing field a bit but like most other things associated with the education system in Ireland have often become about snobbery and gouging.

Snobbery and gouging aside, pushing uniformity in an increasingly multi-cultural society doesn't sit particularly well with me. If you look at the ET ethos for example you will notice it seeks to celebrate different traditions within the student group. Trying to make everyone look the same runs contrary to this.

Mark Hamill · 02-12-2020 2:11pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

He said 'removes', not dumps.
What, you want her to spend all day in it 5 days a week?
Should everyone who has to wear a uniform also wear it all day every day not changing when they get home?

Changing out of your uniform when you get home is pretty normal - some people even change out of their not a uniform work clothes when they get home. Imagine that. They must hate their suits.

I imagine many people do hate their suits (and that many of those who don't like them because of the status symbol they are, which would kind of make them the opposite function of school uniforms).

It's funny how people don't, en masse, change out of whatever they are wearing at 3 or 4pm on days they aren't working. Almost as if when you get to choose whatever you like to wear, you will pick clothes that you are comfortable wearing all day long.

Mark Hamill · 02-12-2020 2:11pm

Treppen wrote: »

touched a nerve there I have.

Btw , just to further trigger your uniqueness:pac: I wear practically the same style every day. Shirt, suit trousers, tie.
I think it's great, zero hassle involved. Change when i get home. To me it's a uniform and I like it.

You like it so much you change out of it when you get home :rolleyes:.

Mark Hamill · 02-12-2020 2:15pm

robindch wrote: »

And I take off my sailing gear when I'm done sailing :rolleyes:

Presumably because your sailing gear is wet from the sea, or sweaty from physical effort. School uniforms don't normally encounter the sea, do they?

robindch wrote: »

You can certainly spin it that way. Easier to view them as a means to avoiding certainly problems which are harder to avoid by other means.

As I have said twice, they do not avoid the problem, they simply move it out of school:

Amazing how such pressure can only ever apply to students with what clothes they wear, and not their coats or school bags or bikes (if they have one) or cars (that they are dropped to school in) or even the condition of their schools books (eg new vs second hand).
And amazing that such pressure only seems to occur whilst on schools grounds and disappears the second they leave school and no-one gives a hoot what they wear.

robindch wrote: »

If we can't teach our kids to do that then what the hell is the point in school at all

?

lazygal · 02-12-2020 2:29pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Large "Voluntary" contributions and excessively expensive crested clothing are an effective way of keeping the riff-raff out of those non-fee paying schools which have notions about themselves

These schools all claim to espouse a christian ethos!!!

My secondary school was a bit like this. In a 'nice' area but stuck with a catchment area which included some folks not quite up to scratch. So the crest was on everything from our uniform mandated coat to the PE shirts. And socks were regulation and had to be bought from the same drapery shop that had the monopoly on sales of said uniform.

None of this was to make us all equal. It was branding us as belonging to a certain school, controlling us and excluding those who didn't have access to money to buy it and-or couldn't get a second hand version because they didn't have the social capital of a connection of some sort to someone who attended who was passing outgrown garments on.

Don't get me started on the girl who got into trouble for having the wrong shade of colour on her otherwise perfectly acceptable school shoes....

Hotblack Desiato · 02-12-2020 10:11pm

Socks, jaysus.

Treppen · 04-12-2020 5:10pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Large "Voluntary" contributions and excessively expensive crested clothing are an effective way of keeping the riff-raff out of those non-fee paying schools which have notions about themselves

These schools all claim to espouse a christian ethos!!!

You see kids in deprived areas wearing jackets and trainers double the price of "crested clothing".

Voluntary contributions are now forbidden unless it's fee charging

Hotblack Desiato · 04-12-2020 7:07pm

Oh right, so because SOME kids wear very expensive ordinary clothes, that means EVERYONE can afford needlessly expensive school uniforms (on top of ordinary clothes for their kids, of course)

Uhuh. :rolleyes:

Yet another of the many completely brainless excuses used to justify our fetish for ridiculous school uniforms in this country.

smacl · 04-12-2020 9:28pm

Treppen wrote: »

Voluntary contributions are now forbidden unless it's fee charging

Rubbish. I pay them at my daughters non-fee paying secondary as I guess most folks do.

rainbow kirby · 05-12-2020 12:18am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Schools in Oz (that have uniforms, which is most non-government schools and many government schools) typically have a summer uniform and a winter uniform, and rules about when each may be worn.

Or - and this is common in primary schools - they have not so much a uniform as a wardrobe of shorts, trousers, skirts, dresses, shirts and blouses, all lin the school colours and/or suitably badged, and pupils can pick-and-mix as they prefer, according to taste, the weather conditions and what they can find in the pile on their bedroom floor.

Similar in England - the only piece of uniform required to be crested in my son's primary school in Manchester is the jumper, and at that it's a round neck sweatshirt that costs a tenner. Trousers and polo shirts from Sainsburys!

Hotblack Desiato · 02-05-2021 4:30pm

New Catholic primary school sex education programme published

A new sex education programme for Catholic primary schools which describes sex and puberty as a “gift from God” has been released.

Flourish, a relationships and sexuality education (RSE) programme, has been developed by the Irish Bishops’ Conference for junior infants to sixth class.

The resources are available for use in Catholic primary schools, which account for about 90 per cent of all national schools, but are not mandatory, say sources involved with it.

An introduction to the programme says that when discussing LGBT issues, the “Church’s teaching in relation to marriage between a man and a woman cannot be omitted”.

The programme for senior classes states that “puberty is a gift from God. We are perfectly designed by God to procreate with him”; while a lesson on safety and protection advises senior infant children to say the “Angel of God” prayer.

The new programme comes ahead of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment’s (NCCA) updated syllabus for relationships and sexuality education. This updated course will apply to all primary schools, however schools are entitled to deliver these programmes according to their ethos.

Mick Barry, a Solidarity TD, said he would question how the programme qualified as appropriate sex education.

“Religion shouldn’t have influence on relationships and sexuality education in schools,” he said.

Mr Barry said his party’s draft legislation on “objective sex education” would guarantee factual relationships and sexuality education across all schools, if enacted.

Atheist Ireland said many non-religious families would have no option but to send their children to publicly-funded national schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church delivering this programme.

“Why on earth would non-religious parents want their children taught moral and social values based on the supposed teachings of a god? There is no balancing of rights here, but the tightening of control to ensure that the Catholic Church can continue to evangelise and indoctrinate,” it said, in a statement.

However, the Irish Bishops’ Conference said all teaching in Catholic primary schools in areas relating to the church’s teaching is done in an invitational way using approaches outlined by the curriculum. It said the biological aspects of the Flourish programme were entirely in line with the NCCA curriculum. The programme will be amended, if necessary, when the council’s review of relationships and sexuality education is completed.

The Department of Education said all schools were required to have a relationships and sexuality education policy that is developed in consultation with the school community, including school management, parents, teachers and students as appropriate.

It said it was important to note that the “ethos of the school should never preclude learners from acquiring the knowledge about the issues, but ethos may influence how that content is treated”.

A document accompanying the Flourish programme states that there is no such thing as an “ethos free” approach to relationships and sexuality education since it must be rooted in a particular value system.

It says the Catholic school must consider these topics within “a moral framework that reflects the teachings of the Church”.

“The RSE programme in the Catholic school must not promote shame, but rather seek to affirm that every human being is made in the image and likeness of God and is loved by God as they are,” it states.

“The same moral obligation to respect and treat our bodies with dignity applies to people of all sexual orientation. However, the Church’s teaching in relation to marriage between a man and a woman cannot be omitted.”

Hotblack Desiato · 05-05-2021 10:51pm

Three letters in the Irish Times on the topic of the "Flourish" programme:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/sex-education-and-catholic-schools-1.4549206

Sir, –I am a secondary school teacher of social, personal and health education (SPHE) and I am extremely concerned about the new Flourish programme intended to cover relationships and sexuality education in primary schools as an accompaniment to the SPHE curriculum (“New Catholic primary school sex education programme published”, News, April 27th).

This programme, developed by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference, aligns a central part of the Wellbeing Programme for our children with a Catholic ethos.

I have two issues with this approach. First, the conflating of a religious programme with relationships and sexuality education. In every single aspect of Flourish, God and/or Jesus is mentioned. This is not a thorough and scientifically accurate programme as recommended by research. It is a programme that is designed to further the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Second, there is a failure to align the teaching of relationships and sexuality education in primary and secondary schools. This approach goes against the recommendation that the programme is taught in a spiral manner from primary through to secondary school, with greater depth given to similar topics as the students grow and mature.

Flourish will result in a disconnect between a religious approach taken in the 90 per cent of primary schools under Catholic management and the non-religious approach taken by secondary schools to relationships and sexuality education.

I would be strongly of the opinion that the programme proposed here is one that is more damaging to the long-term health and wellbeing of our children.

It will cause confusion between sexuality and relationships, and religion; a confusion that will echo throughout their lives as they mature and explore their own sexuality.

I would strongly urge the Government to take action on the Objective Education Bill which has been stalled at the committee stage in the Dáil since 2018. I would also urge parents, teachers and principals to fully read the Flourish programme and consider if a programme on sexuality and relationships is the best place to be including God.

The programme does have merit in the values that it teaches but these values are not the sole remit of the Catholic Church and do not need the catechetical framework that this programme seeks to impose. – Yours, etc,

MÁIRE DE BARRA,

Fermoy,

Co Cork.

Sir, – I wish to express my upset on learning of the new Flourish programme intended to cover relationships and sexuality education in primary schools as an accompaniment to the social, personal and health education curriculum. As a mother of two primary-going kids this topic is one causing deep upset and concern currently. This programme was developed by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference and aligns an essential part of student education with a Catholic ethos. That would be fine if pupils had an opt-in policy. Given that the majority of our schools (90 per cent ) are under Catholic patronage, this programme will be the default in many schools and pupils of minority or no religion will either have to suck it up or sit it out.

The suggestion that “Puberty is a gift from God” particularly grates, as does the assertion that “we are perfectly designed by God to procreate with him”. My preference is for a programme that develops pupils skills to manage different situations rather than spending time on aligning with a particular religious perspective. Topics such as bodily autonomy and consent could be meaningfully addressed in an age-appropriate ways.

The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment is completing a review of the relationships and sexuality education curriculum currently and my preference would be to base the content on objective, factual grounds without recourse to the ethos of a school. I appreciate that even supposedly objective content can espouse liberal views, and few things are truly neutral. There is space in religion class to cover the Catholic perspective on these topics rather than imposing a worldview that is increasingly out of step with a modern, inclusive Ireland.

I would encourage other parents to read the details of the Flourish programme and consider if the Catholic Church is best placed to shape our children’s relationship and sexuality education. I would urge you to contact your local TD, voice your rejection of the Flourish programme and request movement on the stalled Objective Sex Education Bill. – Yours, etc,

CATHERINE O’MAHONY,

Ballinlough, Cork.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/religion-and-sex-education-1.4550260

Sir, – Máire de Barra and Catherine O’Mahony make excellent points about sex education in Catholic schools (Letters, April 28th).

Ireland is long overdue a complete and irreversible separation of church and state. All faith formation in children should occur at places of worship such as churches, synagogues, mosques and temples.

While parents are attending the main worship event, their children can receive age-appropriate religious instruction in another part of the building. This can include denomination-specific teaching on relationships and sexual conduct.

The separation of church and state urgently needs to happen. There should be no more excuses and no more delays. – Yours, etc,

RONAN SCANLAN

Leopardstown,

Dublin 18.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-05-2021 2:42pm

Greater diversity of school types planned for coming years – department

The Department of Education has committed to creating greater diversity in the type of schools to be made available to parents and children in coming years.

Over the three-year period it will “increase the diversity of school type” as well as a “furtherance of inclusive environments in our schools and education centres”.

Oh great. So we'll get an even more inefficient, balkanised and segregated education system...

Hotblack Desiato · 21-05-2021 12:48am

Actual primary school enrolment figures as of 30 Sep 2020 from https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Data-on-Individual-Schools/primary/primary-schools-2020-2021.xlsx

They helpfully don't provide a summary/breakdown by school type so I had to do that myself.

Mainstream schools|schools|enrolment|%schools|%enrolment
Catholic|2,756|495,478|88.70|89.60
Church of Ireland|171|16,125| 5.50|2.92
Inter-denominational|17|4,090|0.55|0.74
Jewish|1|97|0.03|0.02
Methodist|1|90|0.03|0.02
Multi-denominational|142|35,568|4.57|6.43
Muslim|2|637|0.06|0.12
Presbyterian|16|797|0.51|0.14
Quaker|1|121|0.03|0.02
Total|3,107|553,003|100.00|100.00

Special schools|schools|enrolment|%schools|%enrolment
Catholic|103|7,187|76.87|85.49
Inter-denominational|1|5|0.75|0.06
Multi-denominational|21|967|15.67|11.50
Other / Unknown|9|248|6.72|2.95
Total|134|8,407|100.00|100.00

All schools|schools|enrolment|%schools|%enrolment
Catholic|2,859|502,665|88.21|89.54
Church of Ireland|171|16,125| 5.28|2.87
Inter-denominational|18|4,095|0.56|0.73
Jewish|1|97|0.03|0.02
Methodist|1|90|0.03|0.02
Multi-denominational|163|36,535|5.03|6.51
Muslim|2|637|0.06|0.11
Other / Unknown|9|248|0.28|0.04
Presbyterian|16|797|0.49|0.14
Quaker|1|121|0.03|0.02
Total|3,241|561,410|100.00|100.00

Hotblack Desiato · 21-05-2021 10:35am

So basically by enrolment it's RCC 90%, CoI 3%, ET 6.5% and everything else down in the noise.

By number of schools RCC 88%, CoI 5%, ET 5% and everything else down in the noise.

Ireland in the third decade of the twenty-first century of the common era, ladies and gentlemen :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato · 28-05-2021 12:39am

Another letter in the Irish Times on the "Flourish" programme, this is from Education Equality.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/relationships-and-sexuality-education-1.4572815

Sir, – Catholic Archbishop of Dublin Dermot Farrell (“Catholic sex education document acknowledges love is ‘at the heart’ of all families”, News, May 13th) claims that the controversial new sex education document for Catholic-run primary schools is a “resource and not a programme”. Confusingly, however, recently the Catholic Primary School Management Association website stated, “We are very happy to inform you . . . that an RSE (relationships and sexuality education) programme has been developed for use in Catholic primary schools”.

Whatever about the semantics, these materials were clearly prepared and published for use in Catholic-run schools, which account for around 90 per cent of all Irish primary schools. Among the problems with their content is the assertion that the church’s teaching in relation to marriage between a man and a woman “cannot be omitted”. This statement runs contrary to the constitutional definition of marriage as endorsed by over 62 per cent of voters in a recent referendum.

Archbishop Farrell states that Catholic-run schools open their doors to those of other worldviews “in a hospitable, respectful, inclusive manner”. First, these schools are legally obliged to accept non-Catholics. Second, the experience of these families is often markedly different from that of Catholic families. Shunting non-Catholic children to the back of the classroom stigmatises them while also denying them their human and constitutional rights.

Religious teachings should never be imposed on children without their parents’ explicit consent. Education Equality advocates for an approach to education based on human rights, where all children enjoy the same experience of school irrespective of their family’s beliefs. For this reason, we believe that religious instruction and worship should be moved outside core hours on an opt-in basis.

Indoctrination is incompatible with education. At least the Flourish programme can teach us that much. – Yours, etc,

DAVID GRAHAM,

Communications Officer,

Education Equality,

Malahide,

Co Dublin.

smacl · 15-06-2021 11:10am

Excellent article with a lot of input from Aine Hyland on the problems with religion in schools in today's Ireland here; https://www.thejournal.ie/divestment-catholic-primary-schools-stalemate-part-two-5464867-Jun2021/

Hotblack Desiato · 17-06-2021 10:59pm

Catholic primary school will not teach bishops’ Flourish RSE resource

A Co Wicklow Catholic primary school has said it will not be using Flourish, a relationships and sexuality education (RSE) programme/resource developed by the Irish Bishops’ Conference for use from junior infants up to sixth class. Archbishop of Dublin Dermot Farrell is patron of the school.

The decision by Lacken national school management follows protests by parents at the Blessington school who, in a letter to the school board of management on May 17th last, said: “We do not feel the Flourish programme is fit for purpose when teaching RSE to children. It is discriminatory to LGBTQ+ children and families and it does not correspond with the view of the State.”

It's long past time parents and teachers stood up to those eejits.

Also:

It is now the liberal progressives who peer through valley of the squinting windows

The church has not always taught with gentleness, yet it’s clear that harshness and condemnation have skipped to the other side of the aisle. Our gleaming, new, tolerant Republic has limits to its pluralism: in the matter of sexuality, only liberal mainstream views can avoid opprobrium. It is now the progressives who peer through their curtains in the (only slightly reconfigured) valley of the squinting windows.

Translation: "Waaah! My fellow men in black and I don't have it all our own way any more!"

The issue of school patronage naturally accompanies such controversies, and there’s no doubt that the figures look very odd: more than 90 per cent of primary schools under Catholic patronage, while the figure for consistent church attendance is, at best, rather less than a quarter of that. It’s hard to see how the disproportionate number of Catholic-patronage schools can continue – and hard to see why it should.

I'd strongly oppose the notion that what we should be aiming for is a "proportionate" number of exclusionary, sectarian schools which retain - or, as they beome fewer in number, likely intensify - their bigotry and proselytism while continuing to be funded by the state.

Yellow_Fern · 18-06-2021 7:28am

Flourish sounds like an excellent programme. If I was a parent i would steery clear of any so called Catholic school who didnt teach it out of ideology.

Bannasidhe · 18-06-2021 11:16am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Flourish sounds like an excellent programme. If I was a parent i would steery clear of any so called Catholic school who didnt teach it out of ideology.

Riiight.

100% State funded schools should teach Catholic ideology but you object to the same schools objecting to an ideologically driven so-called educational programme being taught due to an ideology you disagree with.

As with the hospitals - if they want the State's money they have to keep their one religion's rules to themselves.

Treppen · 18-06-2021 12:03pm

Just from a casual observance, would I be right in saying that Wicklow is a bit of a battleground when it comes to issues surrounding religion in schools?

School patronage

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