Eviction Ban extended

brisan · 17-07-2020 2:07pm

beauf wrote: »

What is MRSARA?

Magazine Road and surrounding areas residents association
Sounds like a covid mutation lol

Crimsonred · 17-07-2020 2:10pm

beauf wrote: »

What is MRSARA?

Magazine Road and surrounding area residents association. They represent residents living near UCC.

It would appear that tenants can indeed be evicted for antisocial behaviour but not for rent arrears?

Blut2 · 17-07-2020 2:11pm

Panch18 wrote: »

It’s some joke this is even a discussion. They have absolutely no regards for the property rights of property owners in this country. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for this ban to be continued past July 20. A pure joke if it is

There is definitely a debate to be had on how long the evictions ban should go on for. But "no reason for this ban to be continued" does somewhat ignore the 800,000 odd people currently receiving state payments because their jobs don't exist at the moment, largely due to government lockdown restrictions.

The government is obviously terrified of widescale evictions of tens of thousands of people happening as a direct result of these lockdown rules. So the eviction ban will likely remain in place for as long as lockdown conditions are keeping a huge percentage of the working population out of work.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 2:12pm

Blut2 wrote: »

There is definitely a debate to be had on how long the evictions ban should go on for. But "no reason for this ban to be continued" does somewhat ignore the 800,000 odd people currently receiving state payments because their jobs don't exist at the moment, largely due to government lockdown restrictions.

The government is obviously terrified of widescale evictions of tens of thousands of people happening as a direct result of these lockdown rules. So the eviction ban will likely remain in place for as long as lockdown conditions are keeping a huge percentage of the working population out of work.

But out of those 800,000 how many a renting.

I totally agree with your last comment, the government know they cant house anyone so are making it the problem of private landlords.

Blut2 · 17-07-2020 2:19pm

jrosen wrote: »

But out of those 800,000 how many a renting.

I totally agree with your last comment, the government know they cant house anyone so are making it the problem of private landlords.

Given the 800,000 are hugely skewed towards younger people under 40, and people working in comparatively low paid/transient industries like hospitality and tourism, an absolutely huge number would be renting.

This issue is landlords complaining about the eviction ban just won't achieve anything, its terrible optics and TDs won't ever come out in favour of evictions - especially not when its the TDs' fault that people (ie tenants) are being kept unemployed. What landlords need to do is lobby their TDs to bring an end to the disastrous economic restrictions keeping tenants out of work. Its only when the economy is fully open that the evictions ban will get rescinded.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 2:26pm

Latest figure show its below 500,000. Hospitality and tourism are already open.

brisan · 17-07-2020 2:27pm

Blut2 wrote: »

Given the 800,000 are hugely skewed towards younger people under 40, and people working in comparatively low paid/transient industries like hospitality and tourism, an absolutely huge number would be renting.

This issue is landlords complaining about the eviction ban just won't achieve anything, its terrible optics and TDs won't ever come out in favour of evictions - especially not when its the TDs' fault that people (ie tenants) are being kept unemployed. What landlords need to do is lobby their TDs to bring an end to the disastrous economic restrictions keeping tenants out of work. Its only when the economy is fully open that the evictions ban will get rescinded.

Covid 19 has not gone away and is not likely to in the near future .
We had all better get used to the new normal because it will be here for a while
Things will not get back to normal till a vaccine is found and even then no one knows how much economic scarring will have occurred
Another lockdown and the eviction ban could last for another 12 months
Govrnments main issues are protecting the Hse and getting the schools back
Everything else is secondary

Blut2 · 17-07-2020 2:42pm

jrosen wrote: »

Latest figure show its below 500,000. Hospitality and tourism are already open.

Hospitality and tourism open? Did you miss the national announcement yesterday of pubs and nightclubs not being allowed open until August at best? Nevermind gigs, festivals, sports events etc. And tourism? There are still essentially no tourists arriving in Ireland, because the government hasn't released a "green list" of countries yet. Both industries are very much still closed.

I just checked the figures, as of this week there are:

345,000 on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP)
220,000 on the live register/"normal" dole
405,000 Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS)

For a total of 970,000 people on state employment payments. Out of working population of 2.3 million pre pandemic... That means we effectively had 42% unemployment in the state right now. Thats why the evictions ban is in place, because the government is absolutely terrified of large numbers of these people - that government policy is keeping unemployed - getting evicted.

s1ippy · 17-07-2020 2:47pm

Dav010 wrote: »

So, does not look like eviction ban will/can b extended, the Attorney General has raised doubts about the legality of doing so as the reopening of the economy weakens the public health justification for infringing constitutional property rights. His opinion is a further ban will not withstand a High Court challenge.

Article on front page of Sunday Times.

That sounds like a lot of squirming by a man who is highly likely to be landowning stock, writing in a paper bought by many landlords.

beauf · 17-07-2020 2:48pm

.. And the mortgage holidays....

jrosen · 17-07-2020 2:50pm

Blut2 wrote: »

Hospitality and tourism open? Did you miss the national announcement yesterday of pubs and nightclubs not being allowed open until August at best? Nevermind gigs, festivals, sports events etc. And tourism? There are still essentially no tourists arriving in Ireland, because the government hasn't released a "green list" of countries yet. Both industries are very much still closed.

I just checked the figures, as of this week there are:

345,000 on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP)
220,000 on the live register/"normal" dole
405,000 Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS)

For a total of 970,000 people on state employment payments. Out of working population of 2.3 million pre pandemic... That means we effectively had 42% unemployment in the state right now. Thats why the evictions ban is in place, because the government is absolutely terrified of large numbers of these people - that government policy is keeping unemployed - getting evicted.

The industries are not closed. Hotels the length and breath of Ireland are open for business, as are restaurants, surf camps. Sure some hotels are booked out. You should really check your facts before you state an industry is closed

beauf · 17-07-2020 2:52pm

jrosen wrote: »

The industries are not closed. Hotels the length and breath of Ireland are open for business, as are restaurants, surf camps. Sure some hotels are booked out. You should really check your facts before you state an industry is closed

A lot are still closed. Many have decided it's not worth opening this year. Those that are open their revenue is down massively. They are probably operating at 20-40% of normal.

US2 · 17-07-2020 2:53pm

beauf wrote: »

Any more details on the...

"We also welcome Judge Kelleher’s clarification that landlords can evict tenants for antisocial behaviour/excessive noise levels and that Covid-19 restrictions on evictions apply to financial issues only."

That looks like I'm free to stop paying any rent for a while.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 2:53pm

beauf wrote: »

A lot are still closed. Many have decided it's not worth opening this year. Those that are open their revenue is down massively. They are probably operating at 20-40% of normal.

Not the same as claiming an industry is closed.

Blut2 · 17-07-2020 2:57pm

jrosen wrote: »

The industries are not closed. Hotels the length and breath of Ireland are open for business, as are restaurants, surf camps. Sure some hotels are booked out. You should really check your facts before you state an industry is closed

Dublin airport is at only 8% of normal July traffic this month so far. There just aren't any tourists arriving in any significant numbers, unfortunately. Go into any of these open hotels and ask them how their revenue situation is.

The employment figures, which I posted, don't lie. Near a million people, or almost half our workforce, on state employment supports show wide swathes of the economy are still completely on their knees because of the ongoing lockdown policies.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 3:12pm

Of course the flights coming into Dublin are down. There was/is a global pandemic with many countries restricting their travel.

Irish people also holiday in Ireland and parts of Ireland are booked up. Its pretty obvious business will struggle with reduced capacity.

beauf · 17-07-2020 3:32pm

jrosen wrote: »

Not the same as claiming an industry is closed.

I think you're splitting hairs tbh.

There will be a late run on people taking holidays in Ireland before the schools go back. But the vast majority of it is closed.

redarmyblues · 17-07-2020 3:51pm

beauf wrote: »

I think you're splitting hairs tbh.

There will be a late run on people taking holidays in Ireland before the schools go back. But the vast majority of it is closed.

A quick search (just to split a hair) of Trivago returned 125 results for a nights accommodation in Galway next Saturday. Vast majority of tourism being closed seems of unlikely.

beauf · 17-07-2020 4:03pm

Great they can stop the covid payments and lift the ban on evictions...

Blut2 · 17-07-2020 4:15pm

jrosen also claimed the hospitality sector is fully open, despite certain news this week to the exact contrary...

But splitting hairs aside the exact degree of openness of each sector wasn't my point. It was that for as long as hundreds of thousands of people are being kept out of work by government lockdown policy, as is currently the case, then the eviction ban is going to be kept in place. FF/FG will never let a situation develop whereby people are getting evicted for not paying their rent, when government policy is whats keeping them from being able to work to earn that rent money. ie anyone whos job is in Dublin airport, or a nightclub, or a hotel, or countless others currently.

Thats unfortunately the political reality here for landlords. Lobbying to be allowed to evict people is just going to be counterproductive, the way to go is to write to your TD demanding the economy be allowed open up - evictions will only then follow that.

redarmyblues · 17-07-2020 4:15pm

beauf wrote: »

Great they can stop the covid payments and lift the ban on evictions...

Different argument.....you were wrong the first time, you need to concede that and move on.

redarmyblues · 17-07-2020 4:20pm

Blut2 wrote: »

jrosen also claimed the hospitality sector is fully open, despite certain news this week to the exact contrary...

But splitting hairs aside the exact degree of openness of each sector wasn't my point. It was that for as long as hundreds of thousands of people are being kept out of work by government lockdown policy, as is currently the case, then the eviction ban is going to be kept in place. FF/FG will never let a situation develop whereby people are getting evicted for not paying their rent, when government policy is whats keeping them from being able to work to earn that rent money. ie anyone whos job is in Dublin airport, or a nightclub, or a hotel, or countless others currently.
.

The facts most probably are that Tourism is mostly open but operating at reduced capacity in many cases and at additional expense, some are doing well. I had piazza in an Italian last Monday evening and they were refusing people at 6pm. Its a big open place so they have most of their tables, but it was 12th w-e and the place next door was shut. Nuance is what is required,

beauf · 17-07-2020 4:23pm

redarmyblues wrote: »

Different argument.....you were wrong the first time, you need to concede that and move on.

There's more to it than just accommodation in a major city.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/galway-reopening-this-is-hitting-tourism-hard-1.4304578

I'm just back from a trip SW and very limited what was open. What was open was hardly open. Grounds open, nothing else was open.

Topgear on Dave · 17-07-2020 4:45pm

I noted 3 closed coffee shops today on my brief rambles about.

Things might be allowed "open" but they're certainly not going full blast. I paid my whole way through college serving dinners, pulling punts and making beds and doing as many hours as possible during the summer. This is a disaster.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 4:58pm

Blut2 wrote: »

jrosen also claimed the hospitality sector is fully open, despite certain news this week to the exact contrary...

But splitting hairs aside the exact degree of openness of each sector wasn't my point. It was that for as long as hundreds of thousands of people are being kept out of work by government lockdown policy, as is currently the case, then the eviction ban is going to be kept in place. FF/FG will never let a situation develop whereby people are getting evicted for not paying their rent, when government policy is whats keeping them from being able to work to earn that rent money. ie anyone whos job is in Dublin airport, or a nightclub, or a hotel, or countless others currently.

Thats unfortunately the political reality here for landlords. Lobbying to be allowed to evict people is just going to be counterproductive, the way to go is to write to your TD demanding the economy be allowed open up - evictions will only then follow that.

I never actually said tourism was fully open. You were the one claimed industries were closed. I pointed out they aren't. You are trying to imply that all those on PUP and wage assistance are renters all unable to pay their rent. Im not sure anyone has the figures on that to even state.

Panch18 · 17-07-2020 6:56pm

Blut2 wrote: »

Hospitality and tourism open? Did you miss the national announcement yesterday of pubs and nightclubs not being allowed open until August at best? Nevermind gigs, festivals, sports events etc. And tourism? There are still essentially no tourists arriving in Ireland, because the government hasn't released a "green list" of countries yet. Both industries are very much still closed.

I just checked the figures, as of this week there are:

345,000 on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP)
220,000 on the live register/"normal" dole
405,000 Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS)

For a total of 970,000 people on state employment payments. Out of working population of 2.3 million pre pandemic... That means we effectively had 42% unemployment in the state right now. Thats why the evictions ban is in place, because the government is absolutely terrified of large numbers of these people - that government policy is keeping unemployed - getting evicted.

Not doubting you but would you mind posting a link to those figures?

There is a massive infringement on peoples property rights going on - if you can't issue a termination notice you can't sell your property. That is absolutely disgraceful.

There is no logical or medically sound reason for this - it's pure propoganda to placate the media and the lefties

RCSATELLITES · 17-07-2020 7:30pm

So a landlord is liable for noise pollution. How can that be. The people making the noise are adults and therefore should be liable for their own actions. Why is the landlord liable? Because he owns the property. What about in a situation where a owner occupier is making noise and has a mortgage, hence the bank owns the property. Is the bank liable for the noise? Is is because the landlord gets paid rent and thats why he is liable? The government takes just over half the profit in taxes, should they take half the blame. Just some things to think about.

Also it is absolutely disgraceful that the government can stop a business (renting property ) from running normally.

Why don't they freeze petrol prices, mortgage interest rates, insurance premiums, the price of face masks, the prices of groceries.

They ask the insurance companies beg the banks and just tell the landlords. That's
absolutely disgraceful they can do that.

martinr5232 · 17-07-2020 8:36pm

I think the can of worms is well and truly opened with this ruling. Gonna be very interesting.

FAILSAFE 00 · 17-07-2020 9:55pm

"Judge Kelleher also said it was his belief that the non-eviction protection granted to workers who lost their jobs because of the Covid-19 crisis “was in a totally different league” to the case that was before his court."

Great they picked a judge that hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

perfectkama · 17-07-2020 10:06pm

yes he does but because no 100+ previous, suspended or concurrent with another offense while on bail it require a little more consideration

Eviction Ban extended

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