Liffey quays cycle route: Detailed drawings online

Idbatterim · 06-06-2015 3:25pm

That gets confusing for passengers, sometimes the bus goes one way, sometimes the other

yeah I suppose, how long is the stretch of quay, where there is not enough space?

LXFlyer · 06-06-2015 3:27pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

at off peak times, why would the buses bother using the diverted bus lane? Surely they could just use the general traffic lane? the only purpose of a bus lane, is if it is going to be quicker than the general traffic lane...

Given that there is to be a bus stop on the diverted route that would be a bit tricky and utterly confusing - consistency is key when it comes to public transport.

The north quays are busy all day with traffic and the bus lane is needed all day. It's not a case of it only being needed at peak times.

Spanish Eyes · 06-06-2015 4:27pm

Once again, and I am sorry, but what is the problem with the cycleway going alongside the Luas on Benburb Street and beyond?

Is it a bigger problem than the buses or cars going there?

Can someome spell it out for me please?

I would like to hear from cyclists and PT users on this one.

I live on a bus route that goes down the quays. It is a great service. And being selfish of course, I do NOT want it to deteriorate.

monument · 07-06-2015 12:24am

lxflyer wrote: »

When did Dublin Bus say this and where can we read exactly what they said?

Report from the city council only summaries what Dublin Bus said but there's no reason to douth it: Report link at the bottom of the article: http://irishcycle.com/2015/06/04/two-way-liffey-cycle-route-option-gains-public-support/

Here's exactly what the report says in regards to Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and the RPA:

Dublin Bus Submission

In their submission, Dublin Bus highlight the important role that buses play in the operation of Dublin’s public transport network and acknowledges the role cycling has to play in modal shift having grown into a popular, mainstream mode of transport in recent years. It states that scheme designs should seek to encourage modal shift away from private cars and not just to cycling but to public transport also.

The submission goes on to state that it does not support Option 4 in Section A or Option 2 in Section B as they offer little improvement over what is in place at present nor does it support Option 2 in Section A as it offers a disincentive to bus passengers.

The submission states that Options 1 and 3 of Section A can be made to work. Option 1 is relatively easy to implement while with some revisions Option 3 would offer a significant public realm improvement. It further states that there are issues in Section B at Eden Quay where there are a significant number of bus stops but that again, it can be made to work.

Bus Éireann Submission

Bus Éireanns submission states a clear preference for Option 1 of Section A as it has the least impact on Bus Éireann services on the North Quays and will offer the least potential for collisions between buses and cyclists.

The submission states that further detail is required on the “public transport corridor” that is proposed for Options 2 and 3 of Section A. These include clarifications on junction priority and traffic signal priority and whether there will be any additional running times associated with these options.

Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) Submission

In its submission, the RPA highlights the continuing issue with cyclists using the Luas tramlines between Parkgate Street and O’Connell Street in particular and welcomes the development of a safe, segregated cycle route on the quays away from the existing tramline.

The RPA considers the best option moving forward to be a two-way segregated facility on the North Quays as the one way building side option “will not result in cyclists transferring from the existing Luas line… and is therefore not preferable”

There are concerns over Options 2 and 3 however, which propose bus re-routing onto Benburb Street. The submission states that the “RPA would have significant concerns about the safety implications of this proposal” and that in relation to Option 3 specifically “the impact of the provision of a three lane road to the rear of the museum Luas stop is a significant concern to the RPA”.

hmmm wrote: »

You don't need a degree in planning to know this is not going to work, you need a degree in the bleedin' obvious - a long line of buses along a small street, all turning 90 degrees right onto a main traffic artery and then turning 90 degrees left again almost immediately onto another main traffic artery, through two sets of traffic lights that have to be perfectly synchronised. What a complete joke.

The route along the Luas is overall wider than the space on the quays -- so, it's not a small street in any meaningful way which affects buses. The planned space for buses along the Luas is more dedicated and does not include all of the left turning conflicts and bus stop conflicts which are aling the quays.

The outlined bus stop at Smithfield is longer, easier to pull into and has dedicated passing space.

The right turn onto Church Street is wide and into a new bus lane and the left turn from there to the quays is again into a bus lane. The bus lane on Church Street should fit 5 buses with space between them.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Once again, and I am sorry, but what is the problem with the cycleway going alongside the Luas on Benburb Street and beyond?

Is it a bigger problem than the buses or cars going there?

Can someome spell it out for me please?

A two-way cycle path would only really work along the quays for a number of reasons:

The bus lane detour will still be used to for local access to a small number of locations, a two-way cycle path can't do the same thing and the tram tracks are not designed in this location to share with traffic. Even if that was not an issue...
To keep the two-way route any way attractive as it goes from the Luas route to back along the quay wall you'd have to have a larger impact on other modes at key junctions.
Pushing the two-way route further north than the quays would make it less attractive for westbound cycling flows which would usually use the
The three reasons above are killers of the idea each on their own, but you also have...
Sticking a route along the Luas will lead to more and not less people continuing along the Luas tracks from Church Street onwards.
Many people would also continue to use the bus lane along the quays rather than the detour.

lucernarian · 07-06-2015 7:38pm

Dublin Bus' Tours and to some extent the Airlink service could actually benefit from a routing like Option 3.

cgcsb · 08-06-2015 1:06pm

dubscottie wrote: »

Seen the artists impressions of this.. Say someone was to have an incident mid quays and the nearest Ambulance was at/near Heuston how would it get to me? Down the cycle lanes?

the same way an ambulance currently get's places I suppose.

cdebru · 08-06-2015 5:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Once again, and I am sorry, but what is the problem with the cycleway going alongside the Luas on Benburb Street and beyond?

Is it a bigger problem than the buses or cars going there?

Can someome spell it out for me please?

I would like to hear from cyclists and PT users on this one.

I live on a bus route that goes down the quays. It is a great service. And being selfish of course, I do NOT want it to deteriorate.

To make a cycleway attractive to cyclists it has to be easily accessible, and the most straightforward route, you don't want to build it to find out that cyclists don't like the idea of a right and left turn and will just take the bus lane down the quays thanks very much, or find that you are effectively funneling them on dowm the Luas track where you dont want them,If anyone is getting stuck with the awkward route it should be private cars ideally.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 12:39pm

The decision is almost made on this now.

Bus commuters to be funnelled down Benburb Street, and will have to negotiate the turn at Church Street.

Thousands of commuters will have a longer commute to facilitate a much smaller number of cyclists it seems.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0603/705663-dublin-cycleway/

cdebru · 13-06-2015 1:15pm

Given the plans for Bachelors Walk it doesn't make sense to me to move buses off the quay to put them back on at church to them have them conflict with the private cars who have to leave the Quays at Capel St or swifts row presumably, wouldn't it be better to remove private motorists from the north Quays from Hueston to Liberty Hall.

Pete_Cavan · 13-06-2015 1:50pm

cdebru wrote: »

Given the plans for Bachelors Walk it doesn't make sense to me to move buses off the quay to put them back on at church to them have them conflict with the private cars who have to leave the Quays at Capel St or swifts row presumably, wouldn't it be better to remove private motorists from the north Quays from Hueston to Liberty Hall.

Yip the plans for Bachelors Walk does put a different perspective on things. Why on earth would DCC finish a public consultation on changes to one part of the north quays only to open a new public consultation on changes to another part of the north quays just a few hundred metres away? The two are clearly interlinked and the decision on one is going to affect the another. Madness.

monument · 13-06-2015 1:59pm

cdebru wrote: »

Given the plans for Bachelors Walk it doesn't make sense to me to move buses off the quay to put them back on at church to them have them conflict with the private cars who have to leave the Quays at Capel St or swifts row presumably, wouldn't it be better to remove private motorists from the north Quays from Hueston to Liberty Hall.

The traffic conflicts with more lanes and higher traffic volumes around Parkgate Street -- Church Street will be far higher than at Jervis Street / Capel St. So doing a crossover at the latter should be easier.

The combined proposals will made buses overall faster and more reliable.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 2:11pm

monument wrote: »

The traffic conflicts with more lanes and higher traffic volumes around Parkgate Street -- Church Street will be far higher than at Jervis Street / Capel St. So doing a crossover at the latter should be easier.

The combined proposals will made buses overall faster and more reliable.

Are you a bus commuter from any point West of Heuston?

Perhaps you are. Well I am anyway, and I am very disappointed with the re routing of the buses. Just seems daft to me. Cannot understand why the buses were re routed and not the cars. Baffled I am!

I am awaiting a response from Dublin Bus about this (hope I have a bit of time on my hands for the wait), just asking them their reasons for supporting this. I expect that they consulted with their drivers for their views....

That might help me out a bit. :rolleyes:

monument · 13-06-2015 2:22pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Are you a bus commuter from any point West of Heuston?

Perhaps you are. Well I am anyway, and I am very disappointed with the re routing of the buses. Just seems daft to me. Cannot understand why the buses were re routed and not the cars. Baffled I am!

I am awaiting a response from Dublin Bus about this (hope I have a bit of time on my hands for the wait), just asking them their reasons for supporting this. I expect that they consulted with their drivers for their views....

That might help me out a bit. :rolleyes:

Cross-crossing traffic flowing in same direction is one of the worst kind of delays you can't have.

With the new plan I can't see how bus users would be worried. In the new proposals, private car capacity would be reduced even lower than the was in the Liffey Cycle Route and cars won't be able to make it past Jervis Street.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 2:31pm

monument wrote: »

Cross-crossing traffic flowing in same direction is one of the worst kind of delays you can't have.

With the new plan I can't see how bus users would be worried. In the new proposals, private car capacity would be reduced even lower than the was in the Liffey Cycle Route and cars won't be able to make it past Jervis Street.

I am not convinced, but I certainly hope you are right!

The key to its success or failure is the Church Street right hand turn and the next turn onto the Quays. That will be interesting.

But I suppose we have to give the benefit of the doubt. This is what is going to happen whether I like it or not.

monument · 13-06-2015 2:47pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

But I suppose we have to give the benefit of the doubt. This is what is going to happen whether I like it or not.

I would not be quite that defeated, my goal is to get the detail right for cycling but also for buses, for walking, for car access and for loading and drop off etc.

cdebru · 13-06-2015 3:05pm

monument wrote: »

The traffic conflicts with more lanes and higher traffic volumes around Parkgate Street -- Church Street will be far higher than at Jervis Street / Capel St. So doing a crossover at the latter should be easier.

The combined proposals will made buses overall faster and more reliable.

Do you know what happens when large volumes of private cars want or have to turn left with a bus lane on the left hand side ? They queue in the bus lane, take a look at Conyngham Road traffic backed up in the bus lane to islandbridge some mornings.

Now take a look at junctions where bus has to cross over the car traffic and it can usually be managed quiet easily for example Malahide Road at Donnycarney Church, there is another at liffey Valley on the way up to Palmerstown/Ballyfermot traffic light with a yellow box the far side, etc it works well and much better than traffic having to turn left, so given the plans for bachelors walk it would make for more sense for buses to turn right at the end of the croppy acre and left on to the quays have cars going on down to benburb etc to Church St to turn right or left depending on need all this does is create a major conflict with both the cycle lanes and the bus lanes as cars cross both to leave the quays before bachelors walk.
The proposed change to Bachelors Walk changes everything and the consultation should be reopened with the knowledge of the plans for bachelors walk

Aard · 13-06-2015 3:31pm

With Bachelors Walk closed off to private cars and the introduction of city centre traffic cells, there will be much reduced demand for a left turn from Church St onto the quays. This will mitigate the negative impacts of the zigzag turn for buses.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 6:25pm

Aard wrote: »

With Bachelors Walk closed off to private cars and the introduction of city centre traffic cells, there will be much reduced demand for a left turn from Church St onto the quays. This will mitigate the negative impacts of the zigzag turn for buses.

So why not direct cars down Benburb Street then if there are going to be so few of them?

Genuine question. Buses and bikes should be side by side. A public transport corridor, along with pedestrian enhancement.

Cars should be sent to the back streets. But no, they are elevated to the Quays and the rest of the great unwashed are shoved out.

Aard · 13-06-2015 6:31pm

Many transport/planning professionals would agree with you.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 6:36pm

Aard wrote: »

Many transport/planning professionals would agree with you.

I'm not sure if you are being ironic or not, but anyway.... if as you say, many transport/planning professionals would agree on a PT only corridor on the Quays, I wonder what cohort of that group came up with, and now seem to be signing off on the car/bike option?

Aard · 13-06-2015 7:31pm

Do you mean sarcastic? Not at all.

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 8:31pm

Aard wrote: »

Do you mean sarcastic? Not at all.

Sure

monument · 13-06-2015 9:19pm

There's a load a reasons regarding traffic flow and bus flow to keep the cars on the quays:

Starting at extending the park out onto Wolfe Tone Quay -- if bus lanes were on the right hand side of the road and heading towards the quays, it would be buses, not cars which would have to take the right hand turn onto Liffey Street West and left again back to the quays.
Keeping cars on the quays also allows for traffic turning both left and right off the quays or over the river. With buses on the quays and cars along-side the Luas lines, you'd have cars wanting to turn onto:
Ellis Street to get onto the Rory O'More Bridge to go up to James's Street / Thomas Street or to turn back westbound. This would mean you'd have a new signfincat flow of traffic crossing the buses on the quays.
At Blackhall Place there is notable flow northbound off the quays. If cars were moved to alongside the Luas tracks, these flows would (a) cause a new turning conflict with Luas and this would also hold up flows causing tallbacks.
Hendrick Street has low flows now but to accomade the new route along Benburb Street, the access flows along Hendrick Street will likely increase. If the bus lane was on the single lane on the quays, then traffic accessing Hendrick Street would have to be allow to use part of the quays. A footnote compared to the other impacts, but still worth saying.
At Queen Street southbound traffic has a turning lane to turn onto the quays. If traffic here was to be turning onto the new route along Benburb Street it would conflict with the the current stop position of west-bound Luas trams.

The following are a killer for cars using the planned new Benburb Street route:

The Benburb Street leg of the junction would have to handle notable levels of cars turning in three directions without turning lanes.
At Church Street, with option 3 and buses using Benburb Street, the left turn from Church Street to the quays will be banned. If cars are using the Benburb Street, that turn can't be banned, but if the turn isn't banned the turn will fill up as it does now with southbound Church Street traffic. This can be made work for buses but not for cars.
At Church Street, the current traffic turning over Father Mathew Bridge is notable, but if those flows were turning from the new Benburb Street they'd be tunring into the already congested flows on Church Street first.

There's other reasons too, which I think I've mentioned before: If buses were on the single-lane section of the quay and a bus broke down, all behind it would have to wait for the tow truck to get there and reverse and tow it away. At least along the Luas tracks there's some chance of buses being able to carefully use the Luas tracks to overtake a broken down bus.

monument wrote: »

The traffic conflicts with more lanes and higher traffic volumes around Parkgate Street -- Church Street will be far higher than at Jervis Street / Capel St. So doing a crossover at the latter should be easier

cdebru wrote: »

Do you know what happens when large volumes of private cars want or have to turn left with a bus lane on the left hand side ? They queue in the bus lane, take a look at Conyngham Road traffic backed up in the bus lane to islandbridge some mornings.

Now take a look at junctions where bus has to cross over the car traffic and it can usually be managed quiet easily for example Malahide Road at Donnycarney Church, there is another at liffey Valley on the way up to Palmerstown/Ballyfermot traffic light with a yellow box the far side, etc it works well and much better than traffic having to turn left, so given the plans for bachelors walk it would make for more sense for buses to turn right at the end of the croppy acre and left on to the quays have cars going on down to benburb etc to Church St to turn right or left depending on need all this does is create a major conflict with both the cycle lanes and the bus lanes as cars cross both to leave the quays before bachelors walk.
The proposed change to Bachelors Walk changes everything and the consultation should be reopened with the knowledge of the plans for bachelors walk

Just to add/correct myself:

Even if buses kept to the quays all the way, outside the Four Courts the bus lane would be back to the to the left hand side of the roadway (otherwise where will the bus stops be?) and there will be car lanes on the outside of the bus lane.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Yip the plans for Bachelors Walk does put a different perspective on things. Why on earth would DCC finish a public consultation on changes to one part of the north quays only to open a new public consultation on changes to another part of the north quays just a few hundred metres away? The two are clearly interlinked and the decision on one is going to affect the another. Madness.

The public consultation on the Liffey Cycle Route is not finished. Only the first round is done. The work on the city centre strategy is only recently finished, while the Liffey Cycle Route first round public consultation happened before the strategy was finished (and was due to happen even longer before it).

Spanish Eyes · 13-06-2015 9:31pm

@monument.

Thanks for the comprehensive assessment there. You seem to know your stuff, whereas people like me can often have a knee jerk reaction as to how OUR commute may be affected.

I am consoled though by the fact that public consultation on the LCR is not completed yet. And with the latest initiative restricting cars on Bachelor's Walk and so on, there may be further adjustments.

Thanks for all the info.

Aard · 14-06-2015 12:14am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sure

I'm really not sure what you're getting at and why you're not taking my posts at face value.

As I said above, a lot of transport/planning professionals would agree with keeping buses on the quays.

cgcsb · 18-07-2015 5:52pm

It looks like buses through Smithfield is now not going to happen. There is a 7 storey apartment block currently under construction on a site that would block the proposed bus route alongside the luas tracks

http://irishcycle.com/2015/06/22/most-popular-liffey-cycle-route-option-may-be-blocked-by-planned-building/

it's probably for the best to go back to the drawing board and work on a more satisfactory solution for bus users.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2015 8:08pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It looks like buses through Smithfield is now not going to happen. There is a 7 storey apartment block currently under construction on a site that would block the proposed bus route alongside the luas tracks

it's probably for the best to go back to the drawing board and work on a more satisfactory solution for bus users.

Thank you very much for the information. I find it bizarre that no one realised that this development had planning permission before putting the option 3 out for consultation. Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing!

So the buses will not be able to use the full length up as far as Church Street. I for one will be pleased that the bus lane on Benburb Street may be scuppered. Although Mr. Cuffe has suggested the buses turn off at Queen Street.... hmmm.

Is this the site you referred to? (and thanks again)

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Coke+Ln,+Dublin/@53.347205,-6.279746,3a,75y,206.47h,89.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6w69PLcJP264n40pt9WWNQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26panoid%3D6w69PLcJP264n40pt9WWNQ%26w%3D88%26h%3D60%26yaw%3D276%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D96%26ll%3D53.347205,-6.279746!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x48670c2effdd7667:0xd43337501448d9e4

monument · 18-07-2015 8:40pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is this the site you referred to? (and thanks again)

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Coke+Ln,+Dublin/@53.347205,-6.279746,3a,75y,206.47h,89.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6w69PLcJP264n40pt9WWNQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26panoid%3D6w69PLcJP264n40pt9WWNQ%26w%3D88%26h%3D60%26yaw%3D276%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D96%26ll%3D53.347205,-6.279746!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x48670c2effdd7667:0xd43337501448d9e4

That's part of the site, although the building is only planned on part of the site where it is wider, a bit closer to the square.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2015 11:52pm

monument wrote: »

That's part of the site, although the building is only planned on part of the site where it is wider, a bit closer to the square.

Thank you. Looking on Google Earth I can see what you mean - that the area nearer the Square (east end) is wider.

Either way, the planned bus route will not be able to go that way now.

It will be interesting to see what alternatives will be proposed.

Pete_Cavan · 19-07-2015 12:24pm

So it looks as if the bus rerouting via Bunburb Street is now not an option (bit ridiculous that DCC could not have figured this out earlier seeing as they granted permission for the development). In that case, the only option will be to divert cars off the north quays at Blackhall Place. They could be allowed back on at Church Street and Capel Street but if they are banned from Bachelors Walk that seems a bit pointless. Should then private traffic be removed from the north quays from Frank Sherwin bridge, having public transport/cycling only from there at least as far as Bachelors Walk?

In the above scenario, I would still like to see Croppies Acre extended to the river with buses going behind to interchange with Luas, then back to the quays. I would also like to see the footpath extended along Ormond Quay to allow bars/cafes/restaurants along there have outdoor seating. For a good chunk of Ormond Quay the footpath could be extended the full width of a traffic lane while still leaving a continuous bus lane and the cycle path, bus stops would be indented into the footpath at suitable locations so that the bus lane is not obstructed. It would really really improve bus speeds and also make that section of the quays a more enjoyable place to be.

cgcsb · 20-07-2015 11:19am

Indeed this could be a good thing. A car ban all the way from Church Street to O'Connell Bridge would really breath life into the area.

monument · 20-07-2015 12:13pm

There has to be care taken that too much is not taken on too quickly and keeping access to Jervis Street and Parnell Street is key to this.

But with the wider plan to block traffic before O'Connell Street (which goes further than Liffey Cycle Route needs), a traffic lane could be removed from the section between Church Street and Jervis Street. The Liffey Cycle Route had planned to keep two traffic lanes on this section, but with the wider plan for general traffic to be divert traffic from Jervis Street onwards, one lane could be used for a mix of trees/greenery / cafe seating, extra footpath width etc.

There are some retailers pushing against the plans, the city has to be careful that they don't put fuel on that fire.

hmmm · 26-08-2015 9:10am

However, he said there was a possibility buses could be allowed drive along the Luas line.

Sure why not.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cycle-path-plan-diverts-buses-through-apartment-block-1.2328484

cgcsb · 26-08-2015 9:37am

utter disaster

LXFlyer · 26-08-2015 9:45am

hmmm wrote: »

However, he said there was a possibility buses could be allowed drive along the Luas line.

Sure why not.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cycle-path-plan-diverts-buses-through-apartment-block-1.2328484

Not a snowball's hope of that happening.

The volume of buses and coaches at that location is just too great to share with the LUAS trams, as they would have to cross both lines.

It beggars belief that this could not have been foreseen at the outset.

Back to the drawing board thankfully and hopefully a different plan can be arrived at that isn't as disruptive to the bus routes along the Quays.

cgcsb · 26-08-2015 10:01am

With the car ban on Bachelors walk coming in, I don't see why the same can't be done between Blackhall Place and Church Street. Cars can divert to Blackhall Place, Hendrick Street, Haymarket, New Street, Phoenix Stret, Hammond Lane, Church Street.

LXFlyer · 26-08-2015 10:21am

cgcsb wrote: »

With the car ban on Bachelors walk coming in, I don't see why the same can't be done between Blackhall Place and Church Street. Cars can divert to Blackhall Place, Hendrick Street, Haymarket, New Street, Phoenix Stret, Hammond Lane, Church Street.

We have to be careful here. You are putting the cart before the horse.

The Bachelor's Walk and Burgh Quay plans aren't decided upon yet -
DCC would have to come up with alternative routes that are realistic alternatives that are not going to lead to total gridlock elsewhere. There was no mention of what these routes might be. These two ideas are in my view the more contentious of all of the proposals that the DCC/NTA came up with.

I view those proposals as ancillary to the other proposals (closing College Green to general traffic, right and left turn bans around O'Connell Bridge and redesigning both Westmoreland Street and D'Olier Street), which are necessary to cope with the LUAS Green Line extension.

Whether they will happen or not is still definitely up for discussion.

cgcsb · 26-08-2015 10:43am

It was my understanding that the public consultation showed great support for the proposals and that Dublin City Council and the NTA were supportive, so surely that means only time is standing in the way now.

pclive · 26-08-2015 10:58am

cgcsb wrote: »

It was my understanding that the public consultation showed great support for the proposals and that Dublin City Council and the NTA were supportive, so surely that means only time is standing in the way now.

Time and a construction site:)

LXFlyer · 26-08-2015 11:06am

cgcsb wrote: »

It was my understanding that the public consultation showed great support for the proposals and that Dublin City Council and the NTA were supportive, so surely that means only time is standing in the way now.

Again, I think we need to be careful - there has been no public analysis of the results of the consultation of the Dublin City Centre plans yet, so I am not sure how you are reaching that conclusion as yet.

We know that retailers and businesses are, to put it politely, uneasy about the proposals.

I wouldn't be as confident about those two particular elements of the proposals (removing general traffic altogether from both Bachelors Walk and Burgh Quay) at this stage, mainly because no alternatives were proposed to demonstrate where the traffic would divert to, without causing major gridlock.

The other elements (College Green, Westmoreland Street and D'Olier Street) are far easier to implement as there are viable alternative routes.

Spanish Eyes · 26-08-2015 6:35pm

I heard Cllr Cuffe on Newstalk earlier about the apt. development and the way it is impeding the preferred option.

Amongst other things, he thinks that Traffic Lights could be introduced to allow a succession of modes to go through that pinch point. Yes, that's right, so who goes first? And has been mentioned already, shared use of the Luas tracks.

You couldn't make it up.

Sounds to me like they are trying everything in their power to shoehorn buses into this option, no matter what.

To be fair to Cuffe, he also admitted under Hook's insistent prodding, that they may have to think it all out again!

So there we are. For now. What a disaster.

I get weary thinking of how flipping long it takes to get ANY infrastructure sorted in this city.

But I'll hold fire until the Transport group on DCC meets after the holliers!

hmmm · 26-08-2015 8:10pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I get weary thinking of how flipping long it takes to get ANY infrastructure sorted in this city.

If we could spend less time on farcical solutions involving traffic lights for Luas & bus priority, two 90 degree turns across busy roads for buses on a packed commuter route, and trying to run bus routes through the foyer of an apartment building, things would be faster.

Spanish Eyes · 26-08-2015 10:40pm

hmmm wrote: »

If we could spend less time on farcical solutions involving traffic lights for Luas & bus priority, two 90 degree turns across busy roads for buses on a packed commuter route, and trying to run bus routes through the foyer of an apartment building, things would be faster.

Everything you say is true.

And made me laugh too, in a good way. Can't be frowning at the muppets in charge of this ALL the time now can I LOL!

So I'll stand back for a bit and see what happens.

Great thread.

cgcsb · 11-09-2015 4:21pm

Anyone heard anything about this? Is it officially back to the drawing board with another public consultation to take place?

The apartment block is flying up btw.

Spanish Eyes · 11-09-2015 5:17pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Anyone heard anything about this? Is it officially back to the drawing board with another public consultation to take place?

The apartment block is flying up btw.

Haven't heard anything myself, but that's not to say that nothing is happening either.

I understand that the issue is to be discussed at the Transport Group of Dublin City Council at their next meeting. I haven't a clue if this has taken place yet or not.

If I get time I'll check the website.

LXFlyer · 11-09-2015 6:50pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Anyone heard anything about this? Is it officially back to the drawing board with another public consultation to take place?

The apartment block is flying up btw.

I would imagine so.

The planning process is a very slow one so I wouldn't expect any developments for a while.

paddyland · 11-09-2015 9:32pm

I have more or less given up on this forum as any kind of conduit to enlightenment, but I cannot resist the opportunity to thank heavens for that apartment block.

The fact that an apartment block would be planned right in the path of a vital proposed traffic route, and that the planning authorities would fail to notice this, is simply scandalous.

However, for once, rampant development actually serves an unintended useful purpose, however unlikely. That proposed bus route was plain nonsense, and if it takes the combination of an ill-fitting apartment block and the complete incompetence of city planners to thwart it, well then all to the good.

No doubt they will find something even more ridiculous to replace it with.

cgcsb · 14-09-2015 1:48pm

paddyland wrote: »

I have more or less given up on this forum as any kind of conduit to enlightenment, but I cannot resist the opportunity to thank heavens for that apartment block.

The fact that an apartment block would be planned right in the path of a vital proposed traffic route, and that the planning authorities would fail to notice this, is simply scandalous.

However, for once, rampant development actually serves an unintended useful purpose, however unlikely. That proposed bus route was plain nonsense, and if it takes the combination of an ill-fitting apartment block and the complete incompetence of city planners to thwart it, well then all to the good.

No doubt they will find something even more ridiculous to replace it with.

I dunno, you might think it's a godsend but there's already whispers of buses 'sharing space' with the luas :eek:

obviously another solution must be found and obviously another solution is going to have to penalise car users, but does DCC have the gall to do it? I very much doubt it, the car is king afterall.

LXFlyer · 14-09-2015 1:53pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I dunno, you might think it's a godsend but there's already whispers of buses 'sharing space' with the luas :eek:

obviously another solution must be found and obviously another solution is going to have to penalise car users, but does DCC have the gall to do it? I very much doubt it, the car is king afterall.

That was a suggestion from a Green Party councillor rather than from a council planner - I would not waste a lot of time worrying about that as it frankly is completely impractical, given it would require blocking both LUAS lines frequently.

It is just not going to happen.

cgcsb · 14-09-2015 2:01pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That was a suggestion from a Green Party councillor rather than from a council planner - I would not waste a lot of time worrying about that as it frankly is completely impractical, given it would require blocking both LUAS lines frequently.

It is just not going to happen.

Nothing would surprise me at this point, we live in an age where magical mystery tour of cabra luas lines become the 'favoured option' despite being rubbished by the RPA years ago as insufficient. We live in an age where the public just accepts 2 non connecting luas lines, the Phoenix Park tunnel is a 'cheaper alternative to DART underground' :rolleyes: the list goes on and people accept it.

Liffey quays cycle route: Detailed drawings online

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