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Liffey quays cycle route: Detailed drawings online

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    #92
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Victoria Quay and Frank Sherwin Bridge. Tell me that there's no need to intervene there.


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    #93
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    trellheim wrote: »
    It is, isn't it, based on the large amount of people I pass on bicycles happily pedalling along every day having zero problems on said route segment ; there is zero argument for expending any public funds here. Ormond quay to batchelors walk - that needs fixing and i'd listen to cogent arguments round cyclist and bus separation for safety reasons in that area that accelerated both modes progress.

    If the problems with the quays for you only goes from Ormond quay to Batchelors Walk, that's fine. That's your view of your experience.

    But I know for a fact that large amounts of people have issues with other sections to different levels, including: the very high speeds on Victoria Quay made worse when trying to cross over to Parkgate Street; crossing from the inside of Usher's Island to Blackhall Place; the narrow bus lanes on Usher's Quay and Wood Quay; the south side pinch points without even bus lanes at Ha'penny Bridge, Wellington Quay and Essex Quay; the mess of Eden Quay regardless of what direct you're going in; the junction of Arran Quay and Church Street; getting a bit too cozy with buses and taxis and other traffic on Sunday on Ellis Quay, buses and coaches getting fairly close when using Wolfe Tone Quay; the stop-start nature of the lanes and path in the Docklands. We can debate about these issues over and over, but the support from people who cycle for changes to the corridor will speak for itself.

    The method of overcoming all of those issues while having a continuous route is a two-way path on one quayside. There is no space for a continuous road on both sides at the building sides without far greater impacts for buses and general traffic.

    As for "separation for safety reasons", that's only part of the reason and I would say its secondary to attractiveness.

    On the issues of commuting, tourism, health, having a liveable city, and the environment the benefit of option 3 are likely to be well worth it.

    trellheim wrote: »
    But please don't pretend anyone's pushing anything other than personal agenda in this thread.

    Rgds.

    If wanting more people cycling, more attractive and safer cycling, and a better city, is a "personal agenda" that's grand. Otherwise I'm lost.

    Wait... Is the "personal agenda" segregation? I don't know why you'd need to personalise that -- higher-quality segregation is favoured by the bulk of people who cycle and sometimes cycle. Some people don't like it but study after study, poll after poll with the general population who cycles and wants to cycle shows there is a preference for segregation.


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    #94
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    monument wrote: »
    it's a continuous, segregated route from the East Link Bridge to the Phoenix Park and beyond in different directions.

    Speaking of the East link, are the corpo going to implement a safe river crossing there instead of the dismount signs for cyclists?


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    #95
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Speaking of the East link, are the corpo going to implement a safe river crossing there instead of the dismount signs for cyclists?

    AFAIK no. The Eastlink isn't within the SDZ either.


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    #96
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Aard; agree Vic Quay outbound needs speed enforcement ; I've mailed Gardai several times about keeping the speed van there more often BUT in all my cycling there it's only really been dangerous in the really bad rain. The worst offenders here are long distance coaches and not public cars.

    As for Frank Sherwin bridge ( had to lookup which one that was ) my direction is Vic Quay to Parkgate and its never been an issue , the bigger one is traffic racing up Parkgate and Coynyngham Road around the infirmary rd junction making it an unsafe lane change if you are going into the PP


    My comment above remains : close in needs fixing not far out.


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    #97
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Moving from the leftmost lane (cycle/bus lane) to turn right over Frank Sherwin is very dangerous at the best of times. Yes speeding is an issue, but so is having to cross two lanes of traffic. It's too dangerous for most people. Many use the pedestrian lights to cross there.


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    #98
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    trellheim wrote: »
    My comment above remains : close in needs fixing not far out.

    Only in the minds of some hardened cyclists, most people won't cycle on the quays and on the far out (Western) sections both high speeds and need for for crossing lanes of heavy traffic puts of even many people who do cycle a bit.

    So leaving some sections the way they are would be unattractive to and so useless for the average commuter, tourist, or resident.


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    #99
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Aard - do you mean on the approach on Vic Quay to the front of Heuston ? i.e. before the bridge. Struggling to place where the issue or is it Johns road to Frank Sherwin to Wolfe Tone because you're not crossing streams there/will always have the lights

    BTW if this is speeding coaches in front of Guinness' brewery then serious enforcement is needed there - agree 100% no issue


    but all the other stuff ... no ... bonkers. It's up there with closing the red line - to pick a topical question on this forum.


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    #100
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    trellheim wrote: »
    but all the other stuff ... no ... bonkers.

    Why is it bonkers? Because they are looking to have continuous segregated cycle paths, as wanted by most people who want to cycle?


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    #101
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    trellheim wrote: »
    Aard - do you mean on the approach on Vic Quay to the front of Heuston ? i.e. before the bridge. Struggling to place where the issue or is it Johns road to Frank Sherwin to Wolfe Tone because you're not crossing streams there/will always have the lights
    http://goo.gl/maps/Os19G

    Cycling outbound on the south quays along Victoria Quay. To make your way over Frank Sherwin Bridge toward Parkgate Street you need to cross two lanes. Same for all the Dublin Bikes cyclists parking their bike in Heuston. It's not for the faint of heart.


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    #102
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    No it isn't . I agree with that. I have had several interesting experiences along that stretch when crossing the lanes to get up to parkgate. I had several thoughts about an outbound boardwalk on the south side of the river as there's plenty of room


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    #103
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Not a good stretch for the novice for sure. My least favourite bit of my commute when I go that way. I used to avoid it as much as possible.


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    #104
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    After a couple of close calls I now use the pedestrian lights there. There's no other way to cross safely. But the extra couple of minutes wait is a pain and should be designed out imo. Many people will choose the risk of crossing the two lanes instead of waiting like an eejit the pedestrian lights, but one of these days the risk won't work out for somebody.


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    #105
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    monument wrote: »
    The link to that site was on the city council's website homepage for a few days and its still in their news section and at their consultation hub at https://consultation.dublincity.ie/ -- they also promoted it via their social media outlets.

    Since the designs went up, there was also coverage with links on the following non-cycling only websites:

    ...And a selection of accounts with a large following:
    I'm excluding other media reports which linked to the site before the drawings were up -- this was well flagged by media reports, all business groups know about it, and every city councillor now knows about it -- and I'd be surprised if many county councillors or Dublin TDs don't know about it.

    More to show this is not just getting out to people who cycle, and also more cycling related mentions:

    It was also mention in yesterday's intro to cycling pullout in the Indo: http://www.independent.ie/life/my-bike/saddling-up-in-a-downturn-31114127.html


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    #106
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    More coverage:


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    #107
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    A two-way route on the North Quays has emerged as the most popular option after two years of workshops with stakeholders and a public consultation involving 1,200 submissions.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0603/705663-dublin-cycleway/


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    #108
    pclive
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭pclive


    Bad news for anyone using the bus on this route. The bus looses out yet again


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    #109
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    pclive wrote: »
    Bad news for anyone using the bus on this route. The bus looses out yet again
    Most commuters & politicians in West Dublin have not taken part in this consultation, there will be a lot of pushback to come when the implications become more widely known. That turn onto Church street has the potential to be yet another one of those transport decisions we'll all scratch our head about when it is implemented.


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    #110
    pclive
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭pclive


    That turn is going to destroy the service. Church Street/Bridge Street will also suffer heavy delays as green time will have to be taken off in order to run the buses off Hammond Lane.


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    #111
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    Your also reducing traffic Lanes on the quays from two lanes into one. This is going to have a massive knock on effect.

    As well as changing the direction of traffic on those back streets which run beside the luas it will make it very difficult for people living in those areas to get around.

    I think this is too much and I'm saying this as both a cyclist and a driver.

    And before people say it, driving and then cycling is not an option for everyone, nor is driving halfway then getting a luas.

    I'm not going to drive from kildare area to the red cow just to sit on a crowded tram for an extra hour in the mornings.

    Also the luas doesn't go many places people want to such as ballsbridge, leeson Street and other areas around there so it's not an option.

    Then we need to take people that need to drive with disabilities, people too old to be getting on a bike, taxis, ambulances, gardai, couriers, maintenance workers with vans, trucks going to docks and so on. They only have 1 Lane now not 2 which will cause major delays even off peak

    I hope they find too many problems with this option that effects nearly everybody except the cyclist.


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    #112
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    Then we need to take people that need to drive with disabilities, people too old to be getting on a bike, taxis, ambulances, gardai, couriers, maintenance workers with vans, trucks going to docks and so on. They only have 1 Lane now not 2 which will cause major delays even off peak

    If everyone except those people use public transport or walk/cycle, it'll be grand. :)


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    #113
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    hmmm wrote: »
    Most commuters & politicians in West Dublin have not taken part in this consultation, there will be a lot of pushback to come when the implications become more widely known. That turn onto Church street has the potential to be yet another one of those transport decisions we'll all scratch our head about when it is implemented.

    Who's fault is it that they have not taken part in the consultation?
    pclive wrote: »
    That turn is going to destroy the service. Church Street/Bridge Street will also suffer heavy delays as green time will have to be taken off in order to run the buses off Hammond Lane.

    Dublin Bus thinks it is workable.


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    #114
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    buffalo wrote: »
    If everyone except those people use public transport or walk/cycle, it'll be grand. :)

    Exactly - for every person saying "this is a catastrophe, I have to use my car because I'm old/incapacitated/have an impractically complicated journey" there's probably 5 people who drive because it's just easier.

    "Persuade" some of those people onto bikes or public transport and life will get easier for the remaining drivers as well.


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    #115
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Exactly - for every person saying "this is a catastrophe, I have to use my car because I'm old/incapacitated/have an impractically complicated journey" there's probably 5 people who drive because it's just easier.

    "Persuade" some of those people onto bikes or public transport and life will get easier for the remaining drivers as well.

    But let's not forget public transport is an over crowded, unreliable shambles of a system that can easily add an hour or more into a journey

    So its hard to get people away from their cars


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    #116
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    monument wrote: »
    Who's fault is it that they have not taken part in the consultation?



    Dublin Bus thinks it is workable.

    That's what the Vogons said..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BEQYir1JJ8


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    #117
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    That route is gridlock for cars, trucks at peak normal. Its a route I avoid entirely when I drive. I dunno why people go that way at all. The bus lanes though seem to move well. They just get stuck at the pinch points. Or by other buses and cyclist.
    As a cyclist I hate the south quays so two way north quays is perfect for me. Its my main cycling route. Or indeed just to get around town at lunchtime.


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    #118
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    That's what the Vogons said..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BEQYir1JJ8

    Very good...

    But in fairness, unlike the Vogons, the city council put the plans on the interweb..., or maybe UPC and Eircom have not reached west Dublin yet?

    Also covered in national and local newspapers, online media etc.


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    #119
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    monument wrote: »
    Who's fault is it that they have not taken part in the consultation?
    Who cares, most people don't spend their lives studying consultation plans from the council. It's only when the implications of that turn onto Church street becomes obvious to people that there will be questions asked - and hopefully that's not on the day it is implemented.


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    #120
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    hmmm wrote: »
    Who cares, most people don't spend their lives studying consultation plans from the council. It's only when the implications of that turn onto Church street becomes obvious to people that there will be questions asked - and hopefully that's not on the day it is implemented.

    They don't have to study consultation plans for the key details which have been outlined in articles on local and national media and on the city council's website.

    This is well flagged as a major project which will result in large changes.

    Of course, the Church Street junctions have to be designed right, including traffic light times and red light camera. But these are all thing which can be done.


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    #121
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    But let's not forget public transport is an over crowded, unreliable shambles of a system that can easily add an hour or more into a journey

    You seem to be working on the assumption that one day public transport will be able to do for you all the things that your car can. This is never going to happen. It's not a shamble, hundreds of millions of people use it every year in Dublin alone and it's hard to imagine it adding an hour to anyone's journey - that's just hyperbole.


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