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Why do narcissists lack the empathy chip

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  • 20-09-2019 8:33pm
    #1
    black_and_blue
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭


    Why are some people just so damn nasty and lack an empathy chip?


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    #2
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The answer is in the title I'd imagine BaB?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Version 2.0 is proven to replicate human emotions.


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    #4
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Do they lack it or do they mis-use it?


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    #5
    Lirange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Do they lack it or do they mis-use it?

    What do you mean by misuse it?


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OP, as a "Trekkie" fan I suggest you watch YouTube videos about the android Commander Data that feature his "brother" Lore. Lore is different insofar as he lacks empathy.
    Might point ya in the right direction.
    Almost forgot about Diana Troy the ship psychologist.
    Watch a few YouTube videos with her as well Good Lad.


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    #7
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    black_and_blue wrote: »
    Why are some people just so damn nasty and lack an empathy chip?

    Psychology 101 says they were abandoned/abused/unloved (in a healthy way) as kids and the way to deal with the fear/pain/loneliness/etc. which naturally follows was to simply bury that which would cause such negative things to arise. Namely, love of self.

    If you don't love yourself then you don't see an issue in being abandoned/abused/unloved.

    Pretty simple really. But then again, kids are pretty simple in their thinking. So a kid level response is to be expected.

    Fast forward when this kid mode of dealing with things has fully baked. Objects moving in a straight line unless acted upon by a course altering force simple keep going in the same direction..

    Lack of self empathy naturally =
    lack of empathy for others. Like, if you ain't got it for yourself you certainly ain't goin to have it for another.


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    #8
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Lirange wrote: »
    What do you mean by misuse it?

    In order to be highly manipulative one needs to fully understand the emotional /psychological pact of one's actions. You need empathy for that. What they lack is remorse.


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    #9
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    a large curry & empathy chip pls


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    #10
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Because everyone else is wrong about everything I believe is right, you idiots. Agree with me now or there will be repercussions.


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    #11
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    I thought this was psychopaths?

    No doubt the 'dual players' would be quite numerous.


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    #12
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    In order to be highly manipulative one needs to fully understand the emotional /psychological pact of one's actions.

    So my cat needs to understand the internal combustion engine before he figures the bonnet of my car is the best place to have a snooze.

    Clearly, observing a particular response from a person, following an action of yours, requires no other ability than noticing this reaction followed that action.

    You need not a clue at all about why the person reacted to your action, in order to observe their response. And repeat that action and find it gets the same kind of response. Tool for the toolkit.

    Sure enough you can develop on the root observation: "why did they react to that action of mine". And you can find out what was going on for them psychologically and then apply that knowledge mechanistically / by rote.

    No remorse because there is no empathy to begin with. They are being mechanistic in their application of insight. They don't actually feel as others feel. And so, whilst they have a certain understanding (such as to to make use of that knowledge) they don't fully understand. If you fully understood you would be empathic.


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    #13
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    antiskeptic wrote: »

    Fast forward when this kid mode of dealing with things has fully baked. Objects moving in a straight line unless acted upon by a course altering force simple keep going in the same direction..

    So this 'course altering force'... could it be a fist in the jaw?


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    #14
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    topper75 wrote: »
    So this 'course'... could it be a fist in the jaw?

    If the problem is erosion of / failure in the learning of self love then a fist in the jaw isn't going to make up for the deficit.

    Indeed, anyone cruising for a bruising clearly doesn't love themselves. Nor does the person who resorts to fists.


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    #15
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    If the problem is erosion of / failure in the learning of self love then a fist in the jaw isn't going to make up for the deficit.

    Indeed, anyone cruising for a bruising clearly doesn't love themselves. Nor does the person who resorts to fists.

    Failure to learn self-love? It's the only thing they do love.


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    #16
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    Dunno about self love, but I can’t for the life of me figure how anyone falls in love with a narcissist. Now, they must have no self worth at all....


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    #17
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Zeashore wrote: »
    According to "The Laws of Human Nature" by Robert Green we're all narcissists to some degree. There is a spectrum of narcissism. Most people function fine where they are on the spectrum, but to the extreme it can become highly toxic for themselves and those they associate with.

    I'd agree. One of the reasons politicians are slow to act on global warming is because of the obvious. The show can't go on: ever increasing growth and ever more stuff conflicts with what has to happen.

    But as soon as you act to cramp people who are addicted to consumption you'll be voted out of office.

    Even those now marching, if the tap of consumption were turned off as rapidly as they insist it need be turned off, would be hollering when its their jobs and livelihoods that get axed.

    As the man said: its hard to get a man to believe something when his livelihood (and his enjoying the trappings of modern life) depends on him not believing it.

    Narcisscism in us all.


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    #18
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Failure to learn self-love? It's the only thing they do love.

    Love is good. What you are talking about is self lust, self interest, self-ishness.

    Love is patient, kind, wanting the good of another over self. Love is a mother taking the hit from an oncoming car so that her beloved child is saved.

    Different things altogether.


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    #19
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I really don't need schooling on narcs. Or any of the other Cluster Bs. I have plenty of personal experience as my family is full of them and speaking to the older generation it goes way back on both sides. This stuff is genetic.

    Narcissism : the personality disorder that the sufferer doesn't seek treatment for but everyone around them does


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    #20
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    screamer wrote: »
    Dunno about self love, but I can’t for the life of me figure how anyone falls in love with a narcissist. Now, they must have no self worth at all....

    The mask stays on til they know it's safe to remove. If you've never had the misfortune of dealing with one you won't see it til the harm's been done.


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    #21
    Lirange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    In order to be highly manipulative one needs to fully understand the emotional /psychological pact of one's actions. You need empathy for that. What they lack is remorse.

    I see.

    My understanding of empathy has always been a bit more than this. That there is also an emotional connection. That people actually care.


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    #22
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    black_and_blue wrote: »
    Why are some people just so damn nasty and lack an empathy chip?


    My opinion is they don't. They lack respect for others but not the ability to empathize. Often they are very good at empathizing.


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    #23
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Indeed, anyone cruising for a bruising clearly doesn't love themselves. Nor does the person who resorts to fists.

    Maybe only Jesus and Buddha love themselves then.

    I mean, you've thrown a punch a some point in your life, right? I'm not asking you to claim that you were proud you did, just to confirm that you did...


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    #24
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    topper75 wrote: »
    Maybe only Jesus and Buddha love themselves then.

    I mean, you've thrown a punch a some point in your life, right? I'm not asking you to claim that you were proud you did, just to confirm that you did...

    I did indeed. And recieving one taught me to avoid.

    Jesus formed a whip in the temple. Don't know about the buddha.

    Point is, we're all narcissists. The question is whether we tip over into the extreme version. It was that extreme I was referring to: e.g. one who would live by the fist.


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    #25
    black_and_blue
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭black_and_blue


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Psychology 101 says they were abandoned/abused/unloved (in a healthy way) as kids and the way to deal with the fear/pain/loneliness/etc. which naturally follows was to simply bury that which would cause such negative things to arise. Namely, love of self.

    If you don't love yourself then you don't see an issue in being abandoned/abused/unloved.

    Pretty simple really. But then again, kids are pretty simple in their thinking. So a kid level response is to be expected.

    Fast forward when this kid mode of dealing with things has fully baked. Objects moving in a straight line unless acted upon by a course altering force simple keep going in the same direction..

    Lack of self empathy naturally =
    lack of empathy for others. Like, if you ain't got it for yourself you certainly ain't goin to have it for another.

    They only love themselves though.


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    #26
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    Narcissists lack empathy because they have a psychological disorder. That's really all there is to it. They don't have the emotional maturity or self awareness to change or to realise that their behaviour is abnormal. For that reason, you'll never be able to have a truly honest conversation with a narcissist and any percieved "empathy" you see from them will always be rooted in masking their true selves. Again, the problem with this masking is that they truly cannot see what they're doing. It's very conflicting to deal with this kind of person because it's hard to think that someone simply cannot change. It's a sad thing, for everyone involved, whether it's a familial, platonic, or romantic relationship.

    Someone having narcisstic traits, however, does not make that person a narcissist. Everyone can be a little selfish sometimes. People have limits. Some people just aren't very nice. The difference is that someone like this may not be very empathetic but they are still capable of empathy. It's just a case of working on themselves and wanting to.

    My question would be why you're asking the question? If, as you've noted, you've experienced what it's like to deal with a narcissist, then you know that there really is nothing that can be done by that person to change how they are. Even if you brought them to some level of awareness, it would be at a very stunted level emotionally with no way to progress beyond that. What I'd say to you is that if you have someone like this in your life it's best to either try to move on from them or at the very least be conscious of these facts in your dealings with them so that their actions don't affect you as much.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm walking at the min so no time to respond properly but Narcissism is not a disorder it's a personality type.


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    #28
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I dated a narcissist in the past. It was an incredibly confusing and stressful experience.

    One of the problems narcissists have is they kind of know they're narcissists, but they don't care. That inability to genuinely care about people also applies to themselves. The whole thing is sad.

    They should teach this sort of thing in school so people are equipped to recognise it so they can save themselves the horror which is a narcissistic relationship.


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    #29
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    Billray wrote: »
    Most people hide their true selves, they present a personality that is socially acceptable.

    Most people enjoy the smell of their own farts, they won't say that though, it's a part of their personality they repress.


    Sure, and you're right. The majority of people aren't narcissists. In fact, I'd say it's a term that's used far too lightly nowadays. The difference is that you could be one way at work say, and one way at home with your partner, and be aware of that. That's normal. A lot of people do it. It's just adapting your personality to different people and situations.

    Narcissism is a psychological disorder. I believe someone said it wasn't a disorder, but if you check it's listed in the DSM as you'll see in this link..


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    #30
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,733 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Defect in the manufacturing process. Unclear whether it's caused pre or post birth.

    Inadequate quality control means that the problem isn't identified until it's too late to fix it.


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think empathy or the appearance of empathy with narcissists is a very surface thing, and depends entirely on how the reception of that appearance of empathy benefits them.

    Most people aren't narcissists but most have encountered them and not necessarily realized (the first time) until it was behind them and they survey the wreckage. I think the label gets thrown around a bit too, selfish people aren't necessarily narcissists even if narcissists are always selfish people.


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