Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

KyussB · 20-10-2019 3:55pm

People may wonder why the Koch's are so discreditable - apart from being the most extreme version of free market Libertarians, one of their key publications, Reason, has a history of defending racist apartheid in South Africa, for one - some choice quotes:

Let the people who advocate immediate majority rule in South Africa and Rhodesia take note. It would be very nice to have a minimal libertarian government and that is what South African libertarians would like to achieve. But as long as the choice is between being governed by a relatively informed white minority and a Socialist black majority, ‘apartheid’ in South Africa will stay.

The major black ethnic groups lumped together under the general term 'Bantu' are as distinct from one another as Germany and France. They are largely illiterate, largely uncaring, mutually mistrustful, mutually antagonistic. They are not the great single black mass yearning to be free that sentimentalists and self-servers in other lands try to portray them.

In defence of denying poperty rights to black people:

I regret the fact that honest, law-abiding blacks cannot own property in or near white cities, but I realize that without this restriction separate development will fail — and with it the capitalist system in South Africa.

As all libertarians should know, unlimited democracies tend towards totalitarian systems, with the rulers competing with each other to control the political machinery. Some years ago, the whites realized that a democracy may deteriorate into a dictatorship in the ‘wrong’ hands—especially when those hands have the wrong color to boot.

https://pando.com/2014/07/18/homophobia-racism-and-the-kochs-san-franciscos-tech-libertarian-reboot-conference-is-a-cesspool/

This is an example of the type of material the Koch's fund. It is equally as discreditable and propagandistic, today.

KyussB · 20-10-2019 3:59pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

You have sunk to name calling and repeating public relations agency derived nonsense. The public relations agency objective is to denigrate people by creating favourable interpretations to the following questions.
Were these climate skeptics qualified?

Were they doing any research in the climate change field?

Were they accepting money, directly or indirectly, from the fossil fuel industry?

This doesn’t answer skeptics questions about the science and as they acknowledge themselves, are about public relations in the climategate emails.

The other connection this PR agency has is with David Suzuki a Canadian activist whose daughter was the original Greta.

So lets make this clear:
1: You don't think qualifications are relevant - i.e. you don't care if someone is a qualified climate scientist.

2: You don't care about conflicts of interest - i.e. people in the pocket of the oil industry.

Actually, I derive nearly all of the links to the fossil fuel industry from Wikipedia and Google - most of these people have their links to oil oligarch think-tanks directly on wiki pages.

KyussB · 20-10-2019 4:02pm

gozunda wrote: »

Oh ffs - You are obsessed. Is everyone with whom you dont agee with a KOCH OIL OLIGARCH!

The lack of basic comprehension in your comments regarding how scientific research works is quite astounding. Just to let you know that not every scientist needs to be 'climate scientist' btw. These scientists are qualified to review the methodology used by Mann and it was they who found his methodology deeply flawed. The writer of the article is yet another scientist who is neither a climate denier or a skeptic. He simply cautions others to learn from those mistakes (whether deliberate or otherwise). Here is the quote again- in case you are in doubt.

It's a shame that by repetition - you identify the real denier and skeptic of those very basic facts. Truely Bizarre.

Their criticisms were dealt with and debunked by climate scientists more than a decade ago...

If someone is funded by known propagandists - i.e. has massive conflicts of interest - does that affect their credibility, in your eyes?

Pa ElGrande · 20-10-2019 4:09pm

KyussB wrote: »

So lets make this clear: . . .

TLDR.

Why do you ignore the for profit organisations and activists behind the PR you cite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Y4qTLPFJY

gozunda · 20-10-2019 4:30pm

KyussB wrote: »

Their criticisms were dealt with and debunked by climate scientists more than a decade ago...If someone is funded by known propagandists - i.e. has massive conflicts of interest - does that affect their credibility, in your eyes?

The findings regarding flaws in the methodology of Manns work remain along with the emails from East Anglia University and the latest refusal by Mann to allow his data to be verified as an indication of issues of alarmist type data which has crept into the issue of climate change.

So what you are saying is that Richard Muller (who btw is a fully qualified and bonafide scientist) is contrary to his own declaration a 'denier' and 'skeptic'. Or are you saying that as an keyboard warrior you are somehow more qualified to decide what is science and what is not? Really? I dont think so.

You see thats the thing about science - it's not the cult of personality that you would like it to be. In this instance one scientist has reviewed other scientists work and found there is a case to answer. The recent court case involving Manns now debunked Hockey Stick data further backs up these issues with regards to Manns research and its use by the IPCC. That some of the climate screamers and real deniers dont like that is completely irrelevant.

KyussB · 20-10-2019 4:38pm

gozunda wrote: »

The findings regarding flaws in the methodology of Manns work remain along with the emails from East Anglia University and the latest refusal by Mann to allow his data to be verified as an indication of issues of alarmist data which has crept into the issue of climate change.

So what you are saying is thst Richard Muller (who btw) is a fully qualified and bonafide scientist is contrary to his own declaration a 'denier' and 'skeptic'. Or are you saying that as an keyboard warrior you are somehow more qualified to decide what is science and what is not? Really? I dont think so.

You see thats the thing about science - it's not the cult of personality that you would like it to be. In this instance one scientist has reviewed other scientists work and found there is a case to answer. The recent court case involving Manns now debunked Hockey Stick data further backs up these issues with regards to Manns research and its use by the IPCC. That some of the climate screamers and real deniers dont like that is completely irrelevant.

Richard Muller the director of a Koch oil-oligarch funded think-tank? Yea I'll pass on that discreditable source, thanks...

Why the fuck is everyone you guys cite linked to Koch think tanks? If your views aren't so discreditable - go find people citing those views, who aren't associated with such discreditable think-tanks...

gozunda · 20-10-2019 5:53pm

KyussB wrote: »

Richard Muller the director of a Koch oil-oligarch funded think-tank? Yea I'll pass on that discreditable source, thanks...Why the fuck is everyone you guys cite linked to Koch think tanks? If your views aren't so discreditable - go find people citing those views, who aren't associated with such discreditable think-tanks...

This Richard Muller?From your favourite source - Wikipedia:

Richard A. Muller (born January 6, 1944) is an American physicist and professor of physics at the University of California, Berkeley. He is also a faculty senior scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Muller

I'm afraid to tell you this but only one here with the Koch hang up. The above comments come across as some deranged (open) conspiracy rant at best.

The guy - Muller couldn't be more an pro-anthropomorphic climate change advocate if we gave him a large hat emblazoned with the words "I'm a Big Climate Change Fan" in neon letters with LEDs for extra effect.

Just ignoring the bits you dont like?

Any idea how academic funding works? Or only choose to believe 'Google' ?

Pa ElGrande · 20-10-2019 10:57pm

This could be an interesting sideshow to the Canadian elections - GRETA & JUSTIN TRUDEAU. Interfering in another country s elections. . . .

1) How many layers are there to the rotten onion that is the Trudeau Foundation? You're going to want to buckle up for this one!

2) It appears as though Greta Thunberg and Justin Trudeau are more closely linked than we know, but it's very likely that Greta has absolutely no idea. Let's take a look at some interesting connections.

<snip>

16) The head of events and media relations for the Thunberg family is a guy named Daniel Donner. There are many articles online that state this, but this one from Everyone Group details how he presented Greta with the 2019 Makwan Prize.

17) Daniel Donner also just happens to work with media strategy and outreach as part of the European Climate Foundation’s Strategic Communications team, focusing on both news media and digital platforms.

18) It probably won't surprise anyone to learn that the ECF’s founder, John H. McCall MacBain, is the Chair of the Board of Directors for the Trudeau Foundation.

19) McCall MacBain gave the Trudeau Foundation $928,000 between 2015-2016. This National Post article highlights many of the corporate kingpins involved in the Trudeau Foundation. The connections between these companies and the Foundation are staggering!

source

Tell me how · 20-10-2019 11:33pm

gozunda wrote: »

I think Tmh is bizarrely referencing Rosa Parks who helped highlight and bring an end to discrimination and segregation during the civil rights era in the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks

Quite hilarious that a wealthy kid from a privileged background could be held in comparison. We know greta thinks her childhood was stolen by all the adults but seriously?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

They are trying to insinuate that anyone who questions the motives behind Greta and co is also a racist. Much like the start of this thread when it was insinuated that those who questions Greta must be paedophiles. Smear tactics.

Swing and a miss for both of you.
The analogy implied that at that time, on the first of December 1955 and the days immediately afterwards, Rosa would not have been spoken highly of in many of the bars and houses around Montgomery. She was not the first person to refuse to move from their seat to accommodate a white person, but, given her prominence with the NAACP they initiated a strike of the bus system which ultimately lead to a change in the practice of segregation.
Now, people, black and white look at Rosa as a trailblazer.

See the similarities with Greta's story at least to the point of
Not being the first person to do it. initiating wide scale protests, became a figurehead for the cause.

So be clear, I'm not suggesting you are a racist for questioning Greta, I'm suggesting you are a Luddite in coming to terms with the reality of what is happening.

gozunda · 20-10-2019 11:46pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Swing and a miss for both of you. The analogy implied that at that time, on the first of December 1955 and the days immediately afterwards, Rosa would not have been spoken highly of in many of the bars and houses around Montgomery. She was not the first person to refuse to move from their seat to accommodate a white person, but, given her prominence with the NAACP they initiated a strike of the bus system which ultimately lead to a change in the practice of segregation.
Now, people, black and white look at Rosa as a trailblazer.

See the similarities with Greta's story at least to the point of Not being the first person to do it. initiating wide scale protests, became a figurehead for the cause.

So be clear, I'm not suggesting you are a racist for questioning Greta, I'm suggesting you are a Luddite in coming to terms with the reality of what is happening.

Frankly - No.

Hitler would also meets the criteria of of "not being the first person to do it. initiating wide scale protests, became a figurehead for the cause" but I wouldn't put him on a pedestal tbh. And no I'm not suggesting greta is Hitler either...

I'd suggest perhaps you dont know the meaning of "Luddite' ...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tell me how · 20-10-2019 11:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

Frankly - No.

I'd suggest perhaps you are a fantasist? And dont know the meaning of "Luddite' ...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You should add that little confused guy graphic to your profile. It's quite apt.

Also, I see your usual added edit and it is irrelevant. The point wasn't whether or not Greta is equal to Rosa (or anyone else) it is how some people are hardwired to complain irrespective of the lack of validity in their reasoning.

gozunda · 20-10-2019 11:57pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You should add that little confused guy graphic to your profile. It's quite apt.

It's a shrug and denotes 'whatever'. I do think you may just be projecting yourself there

Btw you seem to have missed the main part of my comment. Had a issue posting when my laptop ran out of power. But no worries

Tell me how · 20-10-2019 11:59pm

gozunda wrote: »

It's a shrug and denotes 'whatever' I do think you may ust be projecting yourself there

Btw you seem to have missed the main part of my comment.

I know you edit comments up to 6 hours after they have been posted.

It is hard to know when you are finally finished. I had caught it though.

gozunda · 21-10-2019 12:01am

gozunda wrote: »

It's a shrug and denotes 'whatever'. I do think you may just be projecting yourself there

Btw you seem to have missed the main part of my comment. Had a issue posting when my laptop ran out of power. But no worries

Also, I see your usual added edit and it is irrelevant. The point ... is how some people are hardwired to complain irrespective of the lack of validity in their reasoning.

I see you are not too bad at the old Ninja edit yourself lol.

And no that clearly was not your point Lol. Gotcha there buddy

gozunda · 21-10-2019 12:06am

Tell me how wrote: »

I know you edit comments up to 6 hours after they have been posted. It is hard to know when you are finally finished. I had caught it though.

Lol. You do get caught up the smallest of things. Yes indeed I do sometimes use edit. I also have a dodgy connection which can fek up posting. But there you go. :rolleyes:

As per Fr Jack - I'm soooooo Sorry.

Glad to see the thread back to toungue in cheek humour a la the OP who started the thread.

Night.

hetuzozaho · 21-10-2019 1:26am

Her latest updates are cool

https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1185967021156159488

I guess she'll soon be heading south for Santiago on her slow travels as she says.

#uniteBehindTheScience. Go greta!

is_that_so · 21-10-2019 9:09am

Thought it useful to post this here given that the world is apparently ending and people's indecent haste to prognosticate on the current state of affairs. Dare I say it, it does seem that technology may indeed come to the rescue.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/21/renewable-energy-to-expand-by-50-in-next-five-years-report

21-10-2019 11:25am

no, no- the guardian is Koch propaganda and you sir are a propagandist!

jimgoose · 21-10-2019 11:30am

Yes! 400 pages of bull-scutter! :pac:

gozunda · 21-10-2019 12:10pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Her latest updates are cool

https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1185967021156159488
I guess she'll soon be heading south for Santiago on her slow travels as she says.
#uniteBehindTheScience. Go greta!

Ermh not too sure what her holiday visiting people got to do with the 'unitedscience'?

Eitherway I do hope she is not lecturing the Native people of America and telling them that they ruined her childhood et tedium...

gozunda · 21-10-2019 12:53pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Yes! 400 pages of bull-scutter! :pac:

That Sir - is unfair on Bulls! :mad:

Eric Cartman · 21-10-2019 4:59pm

KyussB wrote: »

Richard Muller the director of a Koch oil-oligarch funded think-tank? Yea I'll pass on that discreditable source, thanks...

Why the fuck is everyone you guys cite linked to Koch think tanks? If your views aren't so discreditable - go find people citing those views, who aren't associated with such discreditable think-tanks...

are Soros funded astroturf groups and think tanks ok or is it only the Koch ones that are bad ?

James Brown · 21-10-2019 5:12pm

...and Greta is an unwitting shill for the Illuminati? Yeah, I don't buy it.

Eric Cartman · 21-10-2019 5:15pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

...and Greta is an unwitting shill for the Illuminati? Yeah, I don't buy it.

don't think anyone said that. That said I doubt she's doing it on her own. Many posters here insist greta is doing this on her own of her own virtue and everything is above board.......while also insisting that every group opposing her is some sort of koch/ big oil funded conspiracy...

Beasty · 21-10-2019 6:30pm

Please note KryssB is banned from the forum, so please do not respond to their posts as they cannot reply further

Thanks

James Brown · 21-10-2019 6:34pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

don't think anyone said that. That said I doubt she's doing it on her own. Many posters here insist greta is doing this on her own of her own virtue and everything is above board.......while also insisting that every group opposing her is some sort of koch/ big oil funded conspiracy...

I assumed you read the OP.

She's likely a hell of a lot of help being a teenager. I can't see her being fed opinions, maybe help with speech writing.

PopePalpatine · 21-10-2019 6:47pm

You'd think that such dastardly, scheming individuals as the Illuminati would have found someone like Greta sooner, or better yet, find her 2004 counterpart rather than getting Gore out there and having the Warmunist agenda derailed by people pointing at his lifestyle.

weldoninhio · 21-10-2019 10:27pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I assumed you read the OP.

She's likely a hell of a lot of help being a teenager. I can't see her being fed opinions, maybe help with speech writing.

So explain the videos where she is asked a question and has no idea at all how to answer. She’s nothing without a script.

mzungu · 21-10-2019 11:17pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

So explain the videos where she is asked a question and has no idea at all how to answer. She’s nothing without a script.

Ah listen, she is 16 years old. She does better than most would in that situation. So what if she has a few lapses? Plus, most people in the public eye operate off a script. Whether that be politicians, actors, musicians etc. When things go off script even they start to flounder a little. Usually those that can go free form easily would be academics and journalists, mainly because they would have decades of research in various fields behind them. But a 16 year old? Nah, a few silent moments here and there and some botched answers is not out of the norm.

TL;DR Some of the most world renowned orators would be nowhere near as impressive if they were not working from a script. Nobody just goes out and starts winging it like some kind of open mic rap battle in a Detroit bar.

Tell me how · 21-10-2019 11:51pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

So explain the videos where she is asked a question and has no idea at all how to answer. She’s nothing without a script.

This is beyond ridiculous.
She is a 16 year old. The president of the united states struggles to formulate a sentence and goes off point virtually every time he speaks without a teleprompter, that deserves commentary about his need for a script.

This girl has a simple message, consistently delivered and has motivated millions more to follow her example. She is to be applauded for her efforts.

We need to act.
Unite behind the science.'

How much of a script do you want?

Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

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