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Couple Ordered to Demolish House - any update?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Novice Self-Build


    So use the planning process to publicly object and voice your outrage rather than curtain twitching behind an alias. Maybe Grower should grow a pair 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,397 ✭✭✭✭elperello



    Seems an awful waste to knock such a fine building.

    Has there been any suggestion of re-purposing the house in some way as an alternative to demolition?

    Maybe for a respite centre or something similar.

    Perhaps give the owners some deal for the site value so they could go elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    It is an awful waste but to reward the couple that broke the law would set a very unwelcome and dangerous precedent.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,397 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Yes there is a principle at stake but the instrument being used to enforce it is very blunt.

    In the legal system offenders are routinely rewarded with education and accommodation options to get them back on the straight and narrow.

    These people would be losing the house but getting the chance of a fresh start.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    I presume when building without planning ther is no way to get a mortgage etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    If they were really smart, they would fill up some spare bedrooms with Ukrainian refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Give them a deal, take in x number of Ukrainian refugees for 2-3 years and you get your permission. Oh, and provide them with a 7 passenger car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not in this day and age, and likely not back when they built either. Although banks were doing plenty of stupid things back then so who knows whether a blind eye was turned. One would expect though that they might have built it with cash.

    As an aside, and completely irrelevant to this case, it would not be unknown for people involved in the building trade to put the costs of materials needed for their own personal use through the business books. So some people do that, but of course there is no suggestion that that was done for the instant case.

    Even if a person manages to get away for it for long enough that the planning violation can no longer be liable to enforcement, a bank still won't lend money on it unless retention is obtained and the situation is brought into compliance. People mistake inability to enforce with compliance. They are not the same thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭juneg


    Can i just ask why was planing permission refused in 2006? Did they really just build the house then having been refused? Bizarre



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    From the article, I think it says they were refused at one site because it was unsuitable as a site.

    Then they were refused at the next site as they didn't have sufficient interest in it.

    Then they were refused at a third site because the land had been sterilised (and maybe also it was against the development plan i.e. preventing spill over).

    It appears they stuck 2 fingers up to everyone else and built on the third location anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,855 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You said that people buying a site with pp and with no ties to the area have to agree to live in the built house for 7 years. I pointed out to you that this is not the case. It's people who are considered eligible for rural housing that have to agree to reside there for 7 years. Just pointing out the facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    There will be a small number of cases where the 7 year rule doesn't apply, but those will technically be for a "rebuild". For example where there is an old derelict house or even the shell of a house.

    But other than that, for a new build as a local needs exception, as you say, the condition lies with the person applying (or can be fulfilled by a close family member). There is an exception insofar that banks can repossess the property within the 7 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    You're pointing out your understanding of the written rules, my post that you thought you were correcting is the actual fact.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Shame to knock it down, but I'm not sure of the reason planning was refused. If it is a very serious breach of health and safety, dangerous access or whatever then yes it should be knocked. However if the Council can sort out access and any other issues, then it should not be knocked, but re purposed for some good use by the community.

    That would mean that the site value would have to be paid to the owners I suppose.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Clearly not wouldn't be a shame to knock it. It's a big ugly monstrosity that says f-off to everyone in their community. That they cut corners on their legal obligation in terms of planning would give me grounds to ask if they also cut corners in other legal obligations e.g. electrical or sewerage.

    It is not up to the council to sort oit access. The building has no right to be there regardless of whether the family live there of if it becomes a community centre (although I take it for granted that it would be completely unsuitable for communtiy use)

    As for giving any money to the owners, f**k them - they should not receive a cent! They have already cost the taxpayer money through their court cases, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I'll take that as a yes.

    The Ukrainians you have a bee in your bonnet about will also get naturalised if they stay here after the war for long enough

    I've no problem with someone being an immigrant - it not a good look though that someone who is one would be constantly begrudging other others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The state foists ugly buildings on the community with utter impunity. If ugliness were a criteria for eradicating a building this country would be out of hospitals and a lot more besides. With the housing crisis at the moment, aesthetics should be the least of anyones concerns. The stupid perniciousness being advocated is unreal - cutting off your nose to spite your face. Demolishing a habitable building in the current accommodation crisis does no one any good and is bent.

    As I said, offer the owners a deal, do some societal good and we'll cut a deal. This is a common idea enshrined in the legal system as community service.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What buildings have been foisted on the community by the government without following the then appropriate process?

    As for the bullshit excuse about a housing crisis, should anyone be allowed to build massive houses wherever they want and use the "crisis" as their excuse if the council & courts tell them to get rid of it?

    The planning laws are there for a reason. If you disagree with them then look to get them changed by the legislature but just because you disagree with a part of the law doesn't mean you can give it the two fingers and do what you want. As I said previously f**k the owners because for years they have been telling us all to go f**k ourselves!

    Edit: typo

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,855 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    So having worked for over 40 years in the planning business you are telling me Im wrong on that point. Ah well, whatever turns you on!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,879 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    The thing here is that if Meath CC don't look to enforce the rules here in totality it might well open the floodgates for others to blast ahead with similar developments. They may not want to proceed with a demolition but it's hard to see what other choice they have. No winners really but at the end of the day this family built a house 3 or 4 times the size of your average irish house. It's amazing really that it's still there 20 years later. It's a trophy house make no mistake about it. A throwback to Celtic Tiger indulgence. I really do think that if they'd have built a 4 bed bungalow they would have gotten retention and the headache for themselves and the council would be long over. Then they might have got further permission for extensions etc. On the face of it you'd have to agree that this was a big 2 fingers to everyone. I know that the family are suffering through a nightmare but they are prolonging it themselves now with silly suggestions of reducing the size etc. Pleading the local officials and trying to gain support from the public through the media. As I said if it were a modest dwelling and I truly believed they were at their wits end trying to build a house for their family I'd be much more sympathetic.

    You can't just decide you want to live somewhere and knock up a house. That's not the way it works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You could also argue that by making it such a headline story and putting stuff into the papers, the owners have pushed the council into a corner where they can't just quietly allow it to remain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    They wouldn’t be rewarded, they should have the house confiscated and pay them the value of the land only.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,879 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Perhaps a better solution for all is that they have the house knocked, reapply for permission and build something a bit more similar to the bungalows and houses around them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Why should taxpayers money be used to pay this couple for the value of the site? This makes zero sense.

    They should be made to knock the house at their expense and retain ownership of the site they chose to purchase.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭rn


    Fundamentally it's never too late (or too expensive) to do right thing. And the right thing here is to demolish it.

    Very unfortunate for the family. Possibly puts them from a relative comfortable life to going on the housing list or renting at best. But this is entirely their own making. And completely illegal.

    There's a case for confiscation of the property and use it to house someone else more deserving, given the housing crisis. But this house is too impracticably large for vast majority of people. It's too remote and environmentally challenging to subdivided into multiple properties.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    State should take ownership of the house, let them rent it back



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