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North Wharf buildings to be demolished

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24

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    #32
    jayboi
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭jayboi


    Which building has the preservation order can someone post a picture.


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    #33
    Gadgie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Gadgie


    In Newcastle upon Tyne, an old flour mill on the quayside has been restored and is now a contemporary art gallery.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Centre_for_Contemporary_Art


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    #34
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Its hard to imagine much of the current structure surviving a makeover that would work.


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    #35
    Dicky Pride
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Dicky Pride


    This town is hilarious. 30 years of bull**** summed up in one event. For years people have been complaining about this "eye-sore", and now that they're talking about knocking it down and people are coming out of the woodwork to complain? Some joke.


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    #36
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,391 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    In fairness, there have always been people who wanted them kept for historical reasons. They're not just "coming out of the woodwork" now.


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    #37
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    I don't think the 'historical' reasons to preserve the building are impressive enough tbh. It is an abandoned mill with some specific concrete mixing method... it is a very 'niche' reason to keep it and I don't think outweighs the glaring health and safety issues and overall hideousness of the site.

    I remember being on the north keys for the tall ships and seeing and hearing how bad it looked for the city that visitors had to go through it to get to the funfair.

    There's a reason the city council have been covering it with a banner all these years..... :pac:


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    #38
    stefan idiot jones
    Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭stefan idiot jones


    debit2credit wrote: »
    This is what we are talking about folks! Doesn't it just scream "welcome to waterford"... :pac:

    7nDftr.png

    Looks like a great place to hold Extreme Parkour 2015 World Championships.


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    #39
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    This all feels like a very long time ago now - the future yet to happen

    http://odagawa-architect.com/waterford.html


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    #40
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    stefan idiot jones wrote: »
    Looks like a great place to hold Extreme Parkour 2015 World Championships.

    Yes boi!!! :pac:


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    #41
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    Saw this on twitter yesterday. No shock what scenery was chosen by this visitor...

    Should be demolished as priority!!! Any progress made??

    a4snrr.png


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    #42
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    debit2credit wrote: »
    Saw this on twitter yesterday. No shock what scenery was chosen by this visitor...

    Should be demolished as priority!!! Any progress made??

    a4snrr.png

    How do you know she is referring to the buildings and not the weather? It’s not like it’s a deep analysis of Waterford that draws detailed conclusions, it is Twitter after all :)


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    #43
    RonyPonyBah
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭RonyPonyBah


    Lets face it lads..... The town is ****ed... It's disgraceful, Waterford has much bigger issues currently than a nasty looking building. Super high unemployment and shops in the city center are closing every week, Vapour pal down michael street was only open a few weeks and it shut last thursday. I just seems that nothing is flourishing here it's turning into a ghetto. The crime rate is also gone wild. I don't know what anyone can really do at this stage.


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    #44
    Zed Bank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Zed Bank


    As someone from Ferrybank I say good riddance, destroy it and build a walking bridge across so I don't half to walk a couple of miles just to go into town.


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    #45
    Tragamin2k2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 694 ✭✭✭Tragamin2k2


    RonyPonyBah wrote: »
    Lets face it lads..... The town is ****ed... It's disgraceful, Waterford has much bigger issues currently than a nasty looking building. Super high unemployment and shops in the city center are closing every week, Vapour pal down michael street was only open a few weeks and it shut last thursday. I just seems that nothing is flourishing here it's turning into a ghetto. The crime rate is also gone wild. I don't know what anyone can really do at this stage.

    the usual response to a post like this is a 2000 word essay that ends with a smiley face about how the town is gone to the madras but overall its not a bad place to live.normally gets around 10 thanks'


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    #46
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Tragamin2k2 wrote: »
    the usual response to a post like this is a 2000 word essay that ends with a smiley face about how the town is gone to the madras but overall its not a bad place to live.normally gets around 10 thanks'
    Agree totally with your cleverly formulated and witty answer to one of the weekly verbal vomit of someone's prejudices hatreds grudges et al.
    I just couldn't be arsed answering it.


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    #47
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    Zed Bank wrote: »
    As someone from Ferrybank I say good riddance, destroy it and build a walking bridge across so I don't half to walk a couple of miles just to go into town.

    Totally agree. Put a new WIT engineering building on the site and get a bridge to connect to the centre. Bring some life back to the city centre and ferrybank.


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    #48
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Dicky Pride wrote: »
    This town is hilarious. 30 years of bull**** summed up in one event. For years people have been complaining about this "eye-sore", and now that they're talking about knocking it down and people are coming out of the woodwork to complain? Some joke.

    Because things change. The world is mot static. The destruction of most of the city walls was done because they were "archaic" and now we would give our eye teeth for them back. This building has mjor significance with regard to industrial heritage and has huge potential. There is examples all over Europe and the world where buildings such as this have been refurbished to excellent standard

    Here is one from Holland

    http://www.strijp-s.nl/

    Another from Amsterdam

    http://www.ndsm.nl/en/

    This perhaps the one major example of twentieth century architecture that we have. Also ask yourself this if it is demolished what are the odds of something of any significance going in there? I would say none! All least with this having some historical significance we can perhaps use it as a pretext for some investment strategy. Otherwise it will be back to the usual excuses from the government and IDA about not having any building stock etc etc etc.

    https://sites.google.com/site/neatherdgcsegeography/unit-2-people-and-the-planet/11-6-development-dilemmas/3-what-is-the-difference-between-top-down-and-bottom-up-development

    There is a new focus across Europe with a more balanced approach to development involving communities and developers. We could take the lead here for once if we can get our acts together. I reckon the site is perfect for small startups and community groups such as what is happening in New Street at the moment. Or some art hub/geurilla gardening/ GIY project.The last thing we need is a hasty decision to demolish or loud hailer slogans that hindered us in the past. The city council should be ashamed for having no imagination here. I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye and the proposal has been made to generate some controversy.

    It might also be done relatively cheap


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    #49
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    It should also be noted that this is the prototype example of the modern skyscraper as is the engineering tecnique used.Added to this the arhitect is a Waterford man.


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    #50
    Digital Society
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Digital Society


    What are you actually suggesting should go in there?


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    #51
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Botanical-apartment-therapy-Phuket-Thailand.jpgThere could be a hundred things that could go in there. Look at the links I posted for examples. I gave three specific examples.

    Maybe give some over to the community for carte blanche projects

    Grow it yourself
    Guerilla Gardenning
    Urban Bee Keeping like they do in London

    Here is another good example from this guy where money was a constraint

    https://www.ted.com/talks/edi_rama_take_back_your_city_with_paint


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    #52
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Digital Society wrote: »
    What are you actually suggesting should go in there?

    1254 KG s of commercial explosive.


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    #53
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    The destruction of most of the city walls was done because they were "archaic" and now we would give our eye teeth for them back.

    I don't think that's an appropriate analogy. Also renewal can be beneficial... if christchurch cathedral had not been demolished would we have two amazing georgian cathedrals by the one architect?
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    This building has mjor significance with regard to industrial heritage and has huge potential. This perhaps the one major example of twentieth century architecture that we have.

    Sorry I just don't accept this. If a building is a hazard and just plain ugly then it should be replaced or radically renewed. Did you want the waterford crystal factory retained also? That building contributed a lot more to waterford's industrial heritage.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Also ask yourself this if it is demolished what are the odds of something of any significance going in there? I would say none! All least with this having some historical significance we can perhaps use it as a pretext for some investment strategy.

    There is a new focus across Europe with a more balanced approach to development involving communities and developers. We could take the lead here for once if we can get our acts together. I reckon the site is perfect for small startups and community groups such as what is happening in New Street at the moment. Or some art hub/geurilla gardening/ GIY project.The last thing we need is a hasty decision to demolish or loud hailer slogans that hindered us in the past. The city council should be ashamed for having no imagination here. I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye and the proposal has been made to generate some controversy..

    A large scale site like this needs a larger vision than GIY / business startups. It cant be just a museum piece either. It needs to be a thriving centre of activity and form a link between the two sides of waterford. I suggested a large scale WIT building. A prime site like this needs to draw large numbers of people on a daily basis.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    It might also be done relatively cheap

    Not going to happen given the dangerous hazards contained in the site.


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    #54
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    1254 KG s of commercial explosive.


    What was that about "witty answers" and "prejudices"?


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    #55
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    debit2credit wrote: »
    I don't think that's an appropriate analogy. Also renewal can be beneficial... if christchurch cathedral had not been demolished would we have two amazing georgian cathedrals by the one architect?.


    Think again.If Christchurch had not been demolished we would have had a much more significant and historic cathedral similar to the one in Dublin. Yes Christchurch is nice but if we had the opportunity again we would retain the original cathedral. That is an undisputable fact.

    debit2credit wrote: »
    Sorry I just don't accept this. If a building is a hazard and just plain ugly then it should be replaced or radically renewed. Did you want the waterford crystal factory retained also? That building contributed a lot more to waterford's industrial heritage .

    So radically reknew it! This is what we did with the remainder of our city walls. Your solutuon would have been to demolish them.This is what I said. And the Waterford Crystal site has zero significane to our architectural heritage.

    debit2credit wrote: »
    A large scale site like this needs a larger vision than GIY / business startups. It cant be just a museum piece either. It needs to be a thriving centre of activity and form a link between the two sides of waterford. I suggested a large scale WIT building. A prime site like this needs to draw large numbers of people on a daily basis..

    A large scale WIT build will not be a thriving centre of activity. You could fit the main campus of WIT on the site and that is not going to happen. I didn't just say GIY.That is just one of a thousand things that could go in there. A developer is not going to do it and if there was one he would just **** it up with the usual mundane **** apartments

    debit2credit wrote: »
    Not going to happen given the dangerous hazards contained in the site.

    This is just opinion and misinformed one at that.


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    #56
    debit2credit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭debit2credit


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Think again.If Christchurch had not been demolished we would have had a much more significant and historic cathedral similar to the one in Dublin. Yes Christchurch is nice but if we had the opportunity again we would retain the original cathedral. That is an undisputable fact.....

    <snip>

    This is just opinion and misinformed one at that.

    Don't think we're going to agree on anything here. Can't even agree on the past ...never mind the present ...


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    #57
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    debit2credit wrote: »
    Don't think we're going to agree on anything here. Can't even agree on the past ...never mind the present ...

    Are you even aware of what type of structure was there before the present Christ Church Cathedral?


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    #58
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    What was that about "witty answers" and "prejudices"?

    No prejudices I think it should be dropped , it has no architectural or aesthetic merit a tenuous claim to fame on part of it being the first reinforced concrete structure built in Ireland which I dont see as a good enough reason to keep it.


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    #59
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    No prejudices I think it should be dropped , it has no architectural or aesthetic merit a tenuous claim to fame on part of it being the first reinforced concrete structure built in Ireland which I dont see as a good enough reason to keep it.

    It isn't a tenuous claim it is a real one"and a significant one at that. It also has plenty of aesthetic and architectural merit if you look at it closely. There is over half a dozen structures there at least.If structures such as the grain silos were removed and the tallest structure of the group you would be left with the core buildings which if cleaned and refurbished can be enhanced considerably which is being done all over Europe in similar situations. It's claim is not based on it being the first reinforced concrete structure in Ireland. It claim is based on being one of the earliest modernist buildings in Europe which makes it very significant. The same reasons were given that you gave for nearly all the acts of vandalism on our heritage. If it is demolished what will replace it? Some three storey structure that will safely get through the planning process and be an even bigger eyesore within a decade all because the objectors fuelled by their brainwashed ideas of what is "aesthetic" are ignorant of the history and significance of the structure.


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    #60
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I'm quite "art and designy" but even I can't stand that monolithic carbuncle. That it happens to be an early example of a certain construction method is just not enough to keep it. What the hell could one do with a building in such disrepair? The cost of restoration would be massive and when complete it would still be an ugly block of re-enforced concrete.


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    #61
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    mike65 wrote: »
    I'm quite "art and designy" but even I can't stand that monolithic carbuncle. That it happens to be an early example of a certain construction method is just not enough to keep it. What the hell could one do with a building in such disrepair? The cost of restoration would be massive and when complete it would still be an ugly block of re-enforced concrete.


    But it wouldn't. There is countless examples of where it has been done on this scale.There has been four already posted on this thread. I have posted another four in another thread on the same issue. Its already been done with the government buildings and ESB.The Granary on the Quay too, The type of thing we are talking about is available to see in the Guinness Hopstore. But the best example I have seen is in Eindhoven in Holland which I posted a link to. Ask yourself this do you actually apreciated the City Walls? Or are you only aware of it because of the efforts of others over the years. For most people it is the later because the city walls have been in a state of disrepair for generations until we finally copped on.


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