North Wharf buildings to be demolished

thomasm

Be great to see the eyesores on the North Wharf knocked. Didn't know this was on the agenda at this stage.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=74399&B&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Short description
North Quays Demolition - Waterford City Council wish to demolish all of the building and structures on the North Quays site

Detailed description
The main items to be disposed are as follows: • Concrete portal framed single storey store – Building Ref. B1 • Steel framed single storey store – Building Ref. B2 • Concrete and steel framed multi storey building – Building Ref. B3 • Concrete framed multi storey building – Building Ref. B4 • Suspended concrete structure in the main yard – Building Ref. B5 • Multi storey building supported on piles on the foreshore – Building Ref. B6 • Nine storey building of concrete construction – Building Ref. B7 • Multi-level steel structure supporting conveyors and hoppers – Building Reg. B8 • 14 No large storage silos • 2 storey office building predominantly over water • Miscellaneous buildings and structures including old silo bases, walls, toilets, prefabricated buildings and boiler house etc. • Contents of all buildings and structures • Disposal of all materials except concrete which is to be crushed to less than 50mm size and may be left on the site in stockpiles Contracting authority
Waterford City Council

City Hall
IE

The Mall,
Waterford
Ireland

<mod snip>
http://www.waterfordcity.ie
Response deadline (Irish time)
18-03-2014 14:00 Currency
EUR

Dum_Dum

Hallelujah. Nuke it.

robtri

Strangely i actually like them
So i will be sorry to see them go...

JPA

The great rat migration will soon be upon us.

space2ground1

They should sell tickets at a tenner a pop. Winner gets to hit the button that demolishes it. All funds go towards building the runway extension!

mike65

It'll be like losing the Clock Tower!

The pity is this will not actually herald any development on the North Quays but at least it'll be a flat empty area when someone can put the money together to build something.

oak5548

As grubby as it looks, its as iconic to me as mount misery is to waterford.
Cant imagine looking across the river or driving up ferrybank without seeing it.

Heathen

Is the whole place riddled with asbestos? If so, it will be a pretty big job to demolish as the whole place has to be deconstructed in a controlled manor and prevention measures will need to be in place to stop pollution to nearby residents...

Would love to see something nice over there... at least they are getting the place ready for future development

thomasm

Heathen wrote: »

Is the whole place riddled with asbestos? If so, it will be a pretty big job to demolish as the whole place has to be deconstructed in a controlled manor and prevention measures will need to be in place to stop pollution to nearby residents...

Would love to see something nice over there... at least they are getting the place ready for future development

Imagine its a huge job and costly. Between asbestos, the fact it's made from reinforced concrete and the location. No way they can blast it due to location and that would potentially bring down the part of the wharf it sits on too.

wellboytoo

thomasm wrote: »

Imagine its a huge job and costly. Between asbestos, the fact it's made from reinforced concrete and the location. No way they can blast it due to location and that would potentially bring down the part of the wharf it sits on too.

Agreed on that I would imagine the whole place will have to be covered in about three foot of sand just to stop damage to the wharf from falling debris.

Deise Vu

thomasm wrote: »

Imagine its a huge job and costly. Between asbestos, the fact it's made from reinforced concrete and the location. No way they can blast it due to location and that would potentially bring down the part of the wharf it sits on too.

G'way with your logic, you have just spoiled one of my life-long dreams.

Couldn't we do it anyway? Blasting the Ferrybank Road into the river might concentrate a few closed minds in the neighbourhood.

Jambo

thomasm wrote: »

Imagine its a huge job and costly. Between asbestos, the fact it's made from reinforced concrete and the location. No way they can blast it due to location and that would potentially bring down the part of the wharf it sits on too.

One of the buildings is listed on the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage Ireland Site due to its construction methods, and as far as I know the front building (which has the various banners) was one of the 1st buildings built in Ireland using moving concrete shuttering in the 40's.

There are quiet a number of pictures of it during its construction on flickr ( just cant find it now)

When they tried to demolish the same type grain buildings in Cork (possibly Limerick) in recent years it failed using explosives and the places had to be broken down slowly by mechanical methods. (Ill search for the links and repost later)

oak5548

thomasm wrote: »

Imagine its a huge job and costly. Between asbestos, the fact it's made from reinforced concrete and the location. No way they can blast it due to location and that would potentially bring down the part of the wharf it sits on too.

And sure if it fell the wrong way into the river it would create a mini tsunami and take out the rest of the city with it!

BBM77

Jambo wrote: »

One of the buildings is listed on the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage Ireland Site due to its construction methods, and as far as I know the front building (which has the various banners) was one of the 1st buildings built in Ireland using moving concrete shuttering in the 40's....

This is exactly what I was going to write about but you got there first. This should be retained:mad:

fricatus

Could they send the bill for the cleanup to Kilkenny County Council? They're forever claiming everything north of the river, so let them pay for it!

thomasm

The last line of this update from Waterford City Facebook page is interesting. Demolish it but potentially leave the concrete rubble behind. Why not just move that as well ? Maybe there is a good reason.


'Waterford City Council wish to demolish all of the building and structures on the North Quays site. The main items to be disposed are as follows: Concrete portal framed single storey store, Steel framed single storey store, Concrete and steel framed multi storey building, Concrete framed multi storey building, Suspended concrete structure in the main yard, Multi storey building supported on piles on the foreshore, Nine storey building of concrete construction, Multi-level steel structure supporting conveyors and hoppers, 14 No large storage silos, 2 storey office building predominantly over water, Miscellaneous buildings and structures including old silo bases, walls, toilets, prefabricated buildings and boiler house etc, Contents of all buildings and structures and disposal of all materials except concrete which is to be crushed to less than 50mm size and may be left on the site in stockpiles.'

thomasm

Just saw this update from Cll Davy Walsh,

'Some of you may have noticed that there is an advertisement on Etenders today by Waterford City Council seeking tenders for the demolition of the North Quays. In truth we are seeking to establish a real price for the demolition of the North Quays with a view to advancing discussions we are having with the Receiver and NAMA .Watch this space.'

looksee

Right. So any firm that was thinking of putting (considerable) time and expense into writing up a tender will say - forget that! Get back to us when you actually want to do something. Then next time the city council looks for a tender they will say - 'ah, rubbish notice, they are just messing'.

wellboytoo

looksee wrote: »

Right. So any firm that was thinking of putting (considerable) time and expense into writing up a tender will say - forget that! Get back to us when you actually want to do something. Then next time the city council looks for a tender they will say - 'ah, rubbish notice, they are just messing'.

My thoughts exactly would be shredding that if it came over my desk.

Max Powers

wellboytoo wrote: »

My thoughts exactly would be shredding that if it came over my desk.

you might be been a little to negative there. It might be necessary to find how much it will cost before they actually consider a tender to demolish them. is it gonna cost 1million or 10 million, who knows. I think they are being highly prudent if such is the case. Im sure there are QS's around that could give a good ball park of how much to take it down, on saying that they might need the cooperation of a specialist demolition company too. if it does cost 10 million (cost is prohibitive), we will be looking at those monstrosities for decades to come.

invalid

wellboytoo wrote: »

My thoughts exactly would be shredding that if it came over my desk.

Any company who thought that wouldn't be in business for very long if they did that. Its fairly common for projects to go to tender before the final decision on proceeding, often its not until you see the actual price that you can make the call

Sully

invalid wrote: »

Any company who thought that wouldn't be in business for very long if they did that. Its fairly common for projects to go to tender before the final decision on proceeding, often its not until you see the actual price that you can make the call

I suspect they have a ballpark figure they expect tenders to come in around.

invalid

Sully wrote: »

I suspect they have a ballpark figure they expect tenders to come in around.

I'm sure they do, but you need that actual price, a lot would depend on salvage

Nypd

You would think a fair bit of money would he generated from salvage

debit2credit

BBM77 wrote: »

...... This should be retained:mad:

Why is this building so important?

To me it looks like an asbestos-filled hazard and dilapidated eye sore of a rat tank which should have been demolished years ago.

Dicky Pride

debit2credit wrote: »

Why is this building so important?

To me it looks like an asbestos-filled hazard and dilapidated eye sore of a rat tank which should have been demolished years ago.

That's exactly what it is. It's been there so long that people seem to have trouble letting it go. Which I find absolutely crazy.

debit2credit

This is what we are talking about folks! Doesn't it just scream "welcome to waterford"... :pac:

oak5548

To be honest the giant picture of yer wans face that was on it for a few years was an even bigger eye sore.

BBM77

debit2credit wrote: »

Why is this building so important?

To me it looks like an asbestos-filled hazard and dilapidated eye sore of a rat tank which should have been demolished years ago.

National Inventory of Architectural Heritage

I’ve included the link to the details of why it is important again, apparently twice already on the same thread is not enough.

I am saying that the 1905 structure should be retained and restored as offices. All the rest should be demolished. As the inventory says:

“An imposing building of national importance…Originally standing alone on the riverside, much of the dramatic impact of the warehouse has been compromised by the systematic development of the adjacent sites throughout the twentieth century”.

It is common in England for buildings like this to be restored as offices. This thing of having trouble letting it go is short-sighted nonsense. Remember the Granary on The Quay was a dilapidated old warehouse before it was restored, now look at it. What is it about Waterford people that they never see the value in anything we have? Even if all it takes is clicking on a simple link to read it.

thomasm

BBM77 wrote: »

National Inventory of Architectural Heritage

I’ve included the link to the details of why it is important again, apparently twice already on the same thread is not enough.

I am saying that the 1905 structure should be retained and restored as offices. All the rest should be demolished. As the inventory says:

“An imposing building of national importance…Originally standing alone on the riverside, much of the dramatic impact of the warehouse has been compromised by the systematic development of the adjacent sites throughout the twentieth century”.

It is common in England for buildings like this to be restored as offices. This thing of having trouble letting it go is short-sighted nonsense. Remember the Granary on The Quay was a dilapidated old warehouse before it was restored, now look at it. What is it about Waterford people that they never see the value in anything we have? Even if all it takes is clicking on a simple link to read it.

The appraisal describes it as having a "Strikingly modern geometric design", unless I'm missing something it resembles a breeze block with windows cut out. Even blocking out the buildings beside it which apparently take from the design I can't see how this is anything but a dog ugly grey building. What am I missing here, is it the building or the construction technique which is important.

looksee

The National Inventory picture cuts out the silos, are they considered part of the structure? Would they be left beside the 'office block'? Just remind me again how many empty offices there are around Waterford and Ferrybank. While I can see that it might be possible to make the building look presentable if all the other structures were removed, its hard to see why. Who is going to take on the investment of restoring that building? If there is public money to be spent I would rather see that lot demolished and something done with the Ard Ri hotel (probably also demolished).

jayboi

Which building has the preservation order can someone post a picture.

Gadgie

In Newcastle upon Tyne, an old flour mill on the quayside has been restored and is now a contemporary art gallery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Centre_for_Contemporary_Art

mike65

Its hard to imagine much of the current structure surviving a makeover that would work.

Dicky Pride

This town is hilarious. 30 years of bull**** summed up in one event. For years people have been complaining about this "eye-sore", and now that they're talking about knocking it down and people are coming out of the woodwork to complain? Some joke.

JohnC.

In fairness, there have always been people who wanted them kept for historical reasons. They're not just "coming out of the woodwork" now.

debit2credit

I don't think the 'historical' reasons to preserve the building are impressive enough tbh. It is an abandoned mill with some specific concrete mixing method... it is a very 'niche' reason to keep it and I don't think outweighs the glaring health and safety issues and overall hideousness of the site.

I remember being on the north keys for the tall ships and seeing and hearing how bad it looked for the city that visitors had to go through it to get to the funfair.

There's a reason the city council have been covering it with a banner all these years..... :pac:

stefan idiot jones

debit2credit wrote: »

This is what we are talking about folks! Doesn't it just scream "welcome to waterford"... :pac:

Looks like a great place to hold Extreme Parkour 2015 World Championships.

mike65

This all feels like a very long time ago now - the future yet to happen

http://odagawa-architect.com/waterford.html

debit2credit

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

Looks like a great place to hold Extreme Parkour 2015 World Championships.

Yes boi!!! :pac:

debit2credit

Saw this on twitter yesterday. No shock what scenery was chosen by this visitor...

Should be demolished as priority!!! Any progress made??

BBM77

debit2credit wrote: »

Saw this on twitter yesterday. No shock what scenery was chosen by this visitor...

Should be demolished as priority!!! Any progress made??

How do you know she is referring to the buildings and not the weather? It’s not like it’s a deep analysis of Waterford that draws detailed conclusions, it is Twitter after all

RonyPonyBah

Lets face it lads..... The town is ****ed... It's disgraceful, Waterford has much bigger issues currently than a nasty looking building. Super high unemployment and shops in the city center are closing every week, Vapour pal down michael street was only open a few weeks and it shut last thursday. I just seems that nothing is flourishing here it's turning into a ghetto. The crime rate is also gone wild. I don't know what anyone can really do at this stage.

Zed Bank

As someone from Ferrybank I say good riddance, destroy it and build a walking bridge across so I don't half to walk a couple of miles just to go into town.

Tragamin2k2

RonyPonyBah wrote: »

Lets face it lads..... The town is ****ed... It's disgraceful, Waterford has much bigger issues currently than a nasty looking building. Super high unemployment and shops in the city center are closing every week, Vapour pal down michael street was only open a few weeks and it shut last thursday. I just seems that nothing is flourishing here it's turning into a ghetto. The crime rate is also gone wild. I don't know what anyone can really do at this stage.

the usual response to a post like this is a 2000 word essay that ends with a smiley face about how the town is gone to the madras but overall its not a bad place to live.normally gets around 10 thanks'

wellboytoo

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

the usual response to a post like this is a 2000 word essay that ends with a smiley face about how the town is gone to the madras but overall its not a bad place to live.normally gets around 10 thanks'

Agree totally with your cleverly formulated and witty answer to one of the weekly verbal vomit of someone's prejudices hatreds grudges et al.
I just couldn't be arsed answering it.

debit2credit

Zed Bank wrote: »

As someone from Ferrybank I say good riddance, destroy it and build a walking bridge across so I don't half to walk a couple of miles just to go into town.

Totally agree. Put a new WIT engineering building on the site and get a bridge to connect to the centre. Bring some life back to the city centre and ferrybank.

fuzzy dunlop

Dicky Pride wrote: »

This town is hilarious. 30 years of bull**** summed up in one event. For years people have been complaining about this "eye-sore", and now that they're talking about knocking it down and people are coming out of the woodwork to complain? Some joke.

Because things change. The world is mot static. The destruction of most of the city walls was done because they were "archaic" and now we would give our eye teeth for them back. This building has mjor significance with regard to industrial heritage and has huge potential. There is examples all over Europe and the world where buildings such as this have been refurbished to excellent standard

Here is one from Holland

http://www.strijp-s.nl/

Another from Amsterdam

http://www.ndsm.nl/en/

This perhaps the one major example of twentieth century architecture that we have. Also ask yourself this if it is demolished what are the odds of something of any significance going in there? I would say none! All least with this having some historical significance we can perhaps use it as a pretext for some investment strategy. Otherwise it will be back to the usual excuses from the government and IDA about not having any building stock etc etc etc.

https://sites.google.com/site/neatherdgcsegeography/unit-2-people-and-the-planet/11-6-development-dilemmas/3-what-is-the-difference-between-top-down-and-bottom-up-development

There is a new focus across Europe with a more balanced approach to development involving communities and developers. We could take the lead here for once if we can get our acts together. I reckon the site is perfect for small startups and community groups such as what is happening in New Street at the moment. Or some art hub/geurilla gardening/ GIY project.The last thing we need is a hasty decision to demolish or loud hailer slogans that hindered us in the past. The city council should be ashamed for having no imagination here. I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye and the proposal has been made to generate some controversy.

It might also be done relatively cheap

fuzzy dunlop

It should also be noted that this is the prototype example of the modern skyscraper as is the engineering tecnique used.Added to this the arhitect is a Waterford man.

Digital Society

What are you actually suggesting should go in there?

fuzzy dunlop

There could be a hundred things that could go in there. Look at the links I posted for examples. I gave three specific examples.

Maybe give some over to the community for carte blanche projects

Grow it yourself
Guerilla Gardenning
Urban Bee Keeping like they do in London

Here is another good example from this guy where money was a constraint

https://www.ted.com/talks/edi_rama_take_back_your_city_with_paint