New Worldwide Handicap System

blackbox · 27-07-2020 1:30pm

slingerz wrote: »

after this weekend i am looking forward to this new system coming in.

Our club had a CSS if 39 and 27 people had 40 points or better. There was 1 x 48 points, 2 x 47 and 1 x 45

How can CSS be so high? Like how is it calculated? I saw a guy have 41 points off 12 and get cut 0.2/0.3 despite beating his handicap by 5 shots!!!

My understanding is that the CSS is high because there were so many high scores.

mighty magpie · 27-07-2020 1:38pm

blackbox wrote: »

My understanding is that the CSS is high because there were so many high scores.

CSS of 39 is a low CSS as it is quoted in points. Question still stands.

edit: not enough coffee this morning! ignore my response!

GreeBo · 27-07-2020 1:49pm

slingerz wrote: »

after this weekend i am looking forward to this new system coming in.

Our club had a CSS if 39 and 27 people had 40 points or better. There was 1 x 48 points, 2 x 47 and 1 x 45

How can CSS be so high? Like how is it calculated? I saw a guy have 41 points off 12 and get cut 0.2/0.3 despite beating his handicap by 5 shots!!!

Whats your SSS?

Miley Byrne · 27-07-2020 2:24pm

mighty magpie wrote: »

CSS of 39 is a low CSS as it is quoted in points. Question still stands.

As far as I know the CSS can only go 1 above the SSS, not sure if I'm correct in that but it would make sense if your SSS is 38 points

Seve OB · 27-07-2020 2:48pm

Miley Byrne wrote: »

As far as I know the CSS can only go 1 above the SSS, not sure if I'm correct in that but it would make sense if your SSS is 38 points

i don't think so

Seve OB · 27-07-2020 2:49pm

blackbox wrote: »

My understanding is that the CSS is high because there were so many high scores.

i would have thought that was obvious.
maybe i'm missing something

gypsy79 · 27-07-2020 2:50pm

Miley Byrne wrote: »

As far as I know the CSS can only go 1 above the SSS, not sure if I'm correct in that but it would make sense if your SSS is 38 points

Wicklow golf club has a SSS of 38

Always suspicious when i see this, as it immediately springs of manipulation for team comps. Wicklow isnt that easy a course

Seve OB · 27-07-2020 2:52pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Wicklow golf club has a SSS of 38

Always suspicious when i see this, as it immediately springs of manipulation for team comps. Wicklow isnt that easy a course

i wouldn't call it difficult. sure if the wind blows, it would be tricky, but it is very open and quite short. i think a sss of 38 is probably a fair reflection overall

HighLine · 27-07-2020 3:08pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Wicklow golf club has a SSS of 38

Always suspicious when i see this, as it immediately springs of manipulation for team comps. Wicklow isnt that easy a course

Apart from winning the Provincial Towns in 2016.. Wicklow hasn't won a big tournament since the 1980's. So rest easy on your suspicions.

The SSS is 68 off whites. It is 70 off blues. It is 5796 yards off the white... so short and relatively easy to score well on once you know how to play it.

Miley Byrne · 27-07-2020 3:21pm

Seve OB wrote: »

i don't think so

What I mean is if SSS is 38 then CSS can only go to 39 max.(That is my understanding but you may be correct, although I've never seen it in practice).

In the other direction it could go to 37, 36 or 35 even.

Poker Face · 27-07-2020 3:34pm

Miley Byrne wrote: »

What I mean is if SSS is 38 then CSS can only go to 39 max.(That is my understanding but you may be correct, although I've never seen it in practice).

In the other direction it could go to 37, 36 or 35 even.

You are correct Miley, if there CSS was 39pts then the SSS is 38pts for the course. CSS can only go 1 above SSS but can go 3 below it.

gypsy79 the SSS is set by the GUI not the club so cannot be used as a stick to beat them for handicap manipulation.

gypsy79 · 27-07-2020 10:46pm

Poker Face wrote: »

gypsy79 the SSS is set by the GUI not the club so cannot be used as a stick to beat them for handicap manipulation.

Yeah i know.....it is kind of weird that have now been given rating of 70 versus 71 par

I wouldnt see it as an easy course

Ask me next Monday. I playing the open there

gypsy79 · 27-07-2020 10:47pm

Does anyone know if non qualifying rounds will go towards handicap??

I have a couple 43s that were non qualifying!

Seve OB · 28-07-2020 12:09am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Does anyone know if non qualifying rounds will go towards handicap??

I have a couple 43s that were non qualifying!

Nobody knows anything yet.

SEORG · 28-07-2020 10:01am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Does anyone know if non qualifying rounds will go towards handicap??

I have a couple 43s that were non qualifying!

If you are not playing in a competition you will have to declare the round as counting towards your handicap (signing in etc) before you play.
You will also need someone to mark your card.

Mantis Toboggan · 28-07-2020 10:07am

Will winter golf count towards handicap?

blue note · 28-07-2020 10:15am

I listened to the Rick sheils podcast on this. Apparently in America they allow gimmies in the counting rounds outside of competition. If it was just the length of a putter grip this would be fine but if it's undefined people could be giving each other three footers or God knows what!

I don't think we're allowing that, but it's bonkers that anywhere does.

Seve OB · 28-07-2020 10:18am

blue note wrote: »

I listened to the Rick sheils podcast on this. Apparently in America they allow gimmies in the counting rounds outside of competition. If it was just the length of a putter grip this would be fine but if it's undefined people could be giving each other three footers or God knows what!

I don't think we're allowing that, but it's bonkers that anywhere does.

i've missed plenty of putts inside the length of a putter grip in my time

padmcv · 28-07-2020 10:47am

I wouldn't be concerned about gimmes counting. This, at worst, will lead to a vanity handicap which only hurt an individual player.

gypsy79 · 28-07-2020 8:06pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Will winter golf count towards handicap?

Going forward yes

CalamariFritti · 28-07-2020 9:21pm

Really? Placing in the rough and all?

hurleronditch · 28-07-2020 9:39pm

padmcv wrote: »

I wouldn't be concerned about gimmes counting. This, at worst, will lead to a vanity handicap which only hurt an individual player.

I’d categorically agree with this. I was a member in the US up to last year, and my handicap was probably 2 strokes shorter than it would be in Ireland. In hindsight, never putting out was key to that - though my golf crew were never pisstakers and almost all golf is fourball a with cash on the line. with the gimmes if you have 12 1-2 footers in a round you’ll miss at least 1. Then there’s always the “good-good” scenario where you and an opponent both have a slippery 2 footer for par and ye smirk and head off.

I didn’t complain, because we were honest within the parameters of normal, and whilst it’s great I can say I’ve been a single figure handicap golfer, until I have a real Irish handicap with every hole finished out that shows 9.4 I’ll know myself it wasn’t quite right.

Seve OB · 28-07-2020 10:44pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Going forward yes

Says who?

Mantis Toboggan · 29-07-2020 9:03am

Seve OB wrote: »

Says who?

I heard it on the Rick shiels podcast and it's also in Englandgolf.org.

I'd imagine we'll have the same rules as them?

blue note · 29-07-2020 9:06am

One thing I didn't understand from the podcast was...

If gimmies are allowed in US but not here, is it a worldwide system or not?

Mantis Toboggan · 29-07-2020 9:09am

blue note wrote: »

One thing I didn't understand from the podcast was...

If gimmies are allowed in US but not here, is it a worldwide system or not?

Think that's with the old system?

blue note · 29-07-2020 9:30am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Think that's with the old system?

Ah, so the yanks will have to putt out in future when the new system comes in? That makes much more sense.

I'm listening to podcasts while working these days. Which means I'm only hearing the odd bit from them in reality.

Seve OB · 29-07-2020 9:56am

There will be regional variations.
CONGU haven’t declared what ours will be yet.

Russman · 02-08-2020 5:01pm

Apologies if this has already been covered, I've gone back a few pages and don't see it specifically.

Am I correct in assuming its your last 20 score differentials rather than just your last 20 scores ?
If I'm correct in that assumption, if your last 20 scores take you back into, say, last summer, how can the score differentials be worked out with the potential bad weather corrections and slope and course ratings that have only just been released ? Is it all happening behind the scenes automatically or will these adjustments be applied retrospectively ? Or will they just take the Nett Differentials from Golfnet and run with that ?
Like two 36pts rounds from last year could have very different score differentials - I think, but could be wrong !

gypsy79 · 02-08-2020 6:39pm

Russman wrote: »

Apologies if this has already been covered, I've gone back a few pages and don't see it specifically.

Am I correct in assuming its your last 20 score differentials rather than just your last 20 scores ?
If I'm correct in that assumption, if your last 20 scores take you back into, say, last summer, how can the score differentials be worked out with the potential bad weather corrections and slope and course ratings that have only just been released ? Is it all happening behind the scenes automatically or will these adjustments be applied retrospectively ? Or will they just take the Nett Differentials from Golfnet and run with that ?
Like two 36pts rounds from last year could have very different score differentials - I think, but could be wrong !

There is a change to the differential which is very similar if not identical to the SSS to CSS adjustment

Russman · 02-08-2020 6:50pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

There is a change to the differential which is very similar if not identical to the SSS to CSS adjustment

Thanks for that.

So if you’re looking for a rough idea of where you currently stand, essentially it’s your best 8 from your last 20 Nett Differentials per Golfnet ?

Is it the average of those 8 or is there a multiplier applied ? I thought I read something way back about 92% or something, although that might be the old USGA system.

gypsy79 · 02-08-2020 6:58pm

Russman wrote: »

Thanks for that.

So if you’re looking for a rough idea of where you currently stand, essentially it’s your best 8 from your last 20 Nett Differentials per Golfnet ?

Is it the average of those 8 or is there a multiplier applied ? I thought I read something way back about 92% or something, although that might be the old USGA system.

95% of it would give you pretty close to your playing handicap if they are all on same course

Gets a little bit more complex if different courses as you would need use slope to get handicap index

dan_ep82 · 03-08-2020 3:57pm

About halfway through Rick's podcast and the girl speaking says GB&I so I presume everything she is saying is relevant to us. We have no differences compared to GB do we currently?

If it is it means counting comps in the winter which is a big plus for me. Off winter tees I presume the CSS ( or whatever the new version of it is) will raise with easier conditions (placing,forward tees etc) so it should even out.

The fact you can go up 5shots on your base HC during a 12 month stretch seems excessive. I'd hope anything above one or two shots needs approval.

It seems they're adamant they don't lose the competitive nature we have over the USA's fairly casual approach. I knew gimmes were a thing there but I didn't know it was "legal" in qualifying and from any distance aswell!

OffalyMedic · 05-08-2020 1:31pm

SEORG wrote: »

Here is a link to an online Handicap Index calculator - https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

You need the Course Rating & Course Slope Rating of the course you played.

Enter your last 20 results with these 2 values & it'll do the rest for you.

You can get the CR & CSR from here - http://ncrdb.usga.org/ (not sure if these are all up to date)

Just got around to doing this and its probably spot on. Over last 2.5 years or (20 counting rounds) I've gone from 10.1 to 12.7 and this calculator gives me a handicap of 15. i dont think i've played below my handicap once in the 2.5 years in counting comp. i'd be happy enough to take 15 if thats what i get in november or when ever the system comes in

Mantis Toboggan · 05-08-2020 2:29pm

Looks like I'll be going from 13 to 18!

05-08-2020 5:13pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Looks like I'll be going from 13 to 18!

Going through a bad patch?

Russman · 06-08-2020 11:16am

SEORG wrote: »

Here is a link to an online Handicap Index calculator - https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

You need the Course Rating & Course Slope Rating of the course you played.

Enter your last 20 results with these 2 values & it'll do the rest for you.

You can get the CR & CSR from here - http://ncrdb.usga.org/ (not sure if these are all up to date)

That's a great tool.
I put in my last 20 rounds per Golfnet and looks like i'll be getting a shot back ! Unless I can put together 3 rounds of 36pts before the cut off !!:eek:
Its great that you can put in scores to see what you need to do to go up or down.

Mantis Toboggan · 06-08-2020 11:21am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Going through a bad patch?

Yeah haven't beaten 34 points in 2 years on my home course.

Mantis Toboggan · 08-08-2020 9:05pm

Where will the results come from for the handicap index?

dan_ep82 · 08-08-2020 11:33pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Where will the results come from for the handicap index?

Not sure what you mean here?

Mantis Toboggan · 09-08-2020 7:05am

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean here?

How will they work out your handicap index?

gypsy79 · 09-08-2020 8:17am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

How will they work out your handicap index?

Based on your scores on golfnet

dan_ep82 · 09-08-2020 10:47am

I would imagine its like gypsy said, they use whatever is available to them via golfnet.

I changed clubs this year so I'm wondering g if they will use last year's for mine coupled with some of this years.

Mantis Toboggan · 09-08-2020 5:43pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Based on your scores on golfnet

But are all the scores on golfnet?

Rikand · 09-08-2020 5:53pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

But are all the scores on golfnet?

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I would imagine its like gypsy said, they use whatever is available to them via golfnet.

And anyone they dont have will just be stuck with whatever handicap they have at the time of change over

Seve OB · 09-08-2020 5:59pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

But are all the scores on golfnet?

Golf net is where your handicap is calculated. Any other scores you might have are not included in calculating your handicap

Mantis Toboggan · 09-08-2020 6:00pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Golf net is where your handicap is calculated. Any other scores you might have are not included in calculating your handicap

So are all my scores on golfnet and if so where are they?

bmc58 · 09-08-2020 6:03pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Golf net is where your handicap is calculated. Any other scores you might have are not included in calculating your handicap

Golf Net doesn't calculate you're handicap.You're handicap is calculated in accordance with the scores you enter to Golf Net.

Seve OB · 09-08-2020 6:19pm

bmc58 wrote: »

Golf Net doesn't calculate you're handicap.You're handicap is calculated in accordance with the scores you enter to Golf Net.

You know what I mean

Seve OB · 09-08-2020 6:20pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

So are all my scores on golfnet and if so where are they?

Are you taking the piss now?

New Worldwide Handicap System

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