Heavyweight Boxing

Morrison J · 27-01-2020 10:24pm

walshb wrote: »

And, I think anyone who knows boxing and technique and fundamentals, will agree that AJ actually is the overall better puncher than Wilder, and will just as liklely, if not more, get to Fury to knock him out...

Technically Joshua punches by the book better but that doesn't make him the better actual puncher. Wilder is by far and away the more effective puncher of the two. Joshua doesn't put people out cold like Wilder does, doesn't possess that sort of power.

Find it difficult to envision Joshua beating Fury. Fury is the better fighter both inside and outside, takes a shot better and has the better stamina. Bad matchup for Joshua.

Wilder has one punch KO power and carries it in the 12th round as much as he does the 1st. That's why this fight is so good.

fonecrusher1 · 27-01-2020 10:32pm

The whole thing is a complete piss take. Wilder and Joshua have been circling each other for 4 yrs. And they keep talking about giving the fans what they want.

Total bullish!t

yourdeadwright · 27-01-2020 10:49pm

Wilder ko's AJ and does it early,
AJ is way to stiff and way to hittable, Wilder is an awful match up for him,
Could he catch Wilder of course but I see Wilder landing first, There's a reason the fight hasn't happened and its because Eddie loses his cash cow

Morrison J · 27-01-2020 10:52pm

Joshua will take another loss or two before a Fury or Wilder fight happens anyway. I'd be pretty confident about that, especially if he's forced to fight Usyk.

fonecrusher1 · 27-01-2020 11:08pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wilder ko's AJ and does it early,
AJ is way to stiff and way to hittable, Wilder is an awful match up for him,
Could he catch Wilder of course but I see Wilder landing first, There's a reason the fight hasn't happened and its because Eddie loses his cash cow

AJ is a better overall boxer though than Wilder. But he's nowhere near Fury's damage avoidance level so yeah I can see Wilder dealing with AJ a lot easier than a fighter like Fury.

selectamatic · 27-01-2020 11:13pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There's a reason the fight hasn't happened and its because Eddie loses his cash cow

I don't doubt Eddie is worried but...

100 or 50 million pounds for 3 fights whatever it was and Wilder turns it down puts a slightly different slant on that narrative.

walshb · 27-01-2020 11:43pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua will take another loss or two before a Fury or Wilder fight happens anyway. I'd be pretty confident about that, especially if he's forced to fight Usyk.

This Usyk buzz puzzles me...

210 lbs soaking wet, barely bursting a grape..

If his chin is very good, he can do well..

I’d still back AJ or Wilder via KO..

walshb · 27-01-2020 11:47pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Technically Joshua punches by the book better but that doesn't make him the better actual puncher. Wilder is by far and away the more effective puncher of the two. Joshua doesn't put people out cold like Wilder does, doesn't possess that sort of power.

Find it difficult to envision Joshua beating Fury. Fury is the better fighter both inside and outside, takes a shot better and has the better stamina. Bad matchup for Joshua.

Wilder has one punch KO power and carries it in the 12th round as much as he does the 1st. That's why this fight is so good.

There’s more to punching than just overall force/power...

AJ is the better overall puncher!

squinn2912 · 28-01-2020 12:45am

walshb wrote: »

This Usyk buzz puzzles me...

210 lbs soaking wet, barely bursting a grape..

If his chin is very good, he can do well..

I’d still back AJ or Wilder via KO..

I think any rough and tumble hw will be too much for him. I’d fancy whyte to be too strong in fact. Though I thought that about hunter with AP and he did very well in the end I had him winning by 3 rounds

walshb · 28-01-2020 5:57pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

I think any rough and tumble hw will be too much for him. I’d fancy whyte to be too strong in fact. Though I thought that about hunter with AP and he did very well in the end I had him winning by 3 rounds

I'd definitely give Usyk a chance v Whyte, and that other plodder, Chisora...

Both are quite slow, not all that huge, other than being fat.....

Whyte can punch a little, so he has a KO chance. No KO, and he gets beaten on points

With Wilder and AJ and Fury.......I actually think all can win via KO or points...

Wilder and AJ would likely keep Usyk very honest, and I think both would not find it too difficult to land clean power shots, shots that I reckon take Usyk out...

Now, let's assume that Usyk goes 12 with the big 3......he has to win on points, and he has to overcome height, range and decent boxing skills (albeit very awkward for Wilder). AJ can definitely box with the best of them. He would be taller, rangier, physically stronger and more imposing than Usyk. AJ can win on points by kind of negating Usyk and shutting his offence down.

Wilder is taller, rangier and damn awkward; added to Usyk likely being overly careful not to get wallpoed, then Wilder could definitely win on points...

Fury would also be very difficult for Usyk to outpoint.......I'd back Fury on points 8-10 times here.

squinn2912 · 28-01-2020 8:52pm

walshb wrote: »

I'd definitely give Usyk a chance v Whyte, and that other plodder, Chisora...

Both are quite slow, not all that huge, other than being fat.....

Whyte can punch a little, so he has a KO chance. No KO, and he gets beaten on points

With Wilder and AJ and Fury.......I actually think all can win via KO or points...

Wilder and AJ would likely keep Usyk very honest, and I think both would not find it too difficult to land clean power shots, shots that I reckon take Usyk out...

Now, let's assume that Usyk goes 12 with the big 3......he has to win on points, and he has to overcome height, range and decent boxing skills (albeit very awkward for Wilder). AJ can definitely box with the best of them. He would be taller, rangier, physically stronger and more imposing than Usyk. AJ can win on points by kind of negating Usyk and shutting his offence down.

Wilder is taller, rangier and damn awkward; added to Usyk likely being overly careful not to get wallpoed, then Wilder could definitely win on points...

Fury would also be very difficult for Usyk to outpoint.......I'd back Fury on points 8-10 times here.

Be careful you’re going to get an anti-AJ backlash!!

Yea I agree on the big three. I think ko for AJ or Wilder. Fury more likely points. I think the other two plodders would give him at least a hell of a scare

walshb · 29-01-2020 10:55am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Be careful you’re going to get an anti-AJ backlash!!

Indeed.

Me: I always praise and criticize ALL fighters equally..

Plenty praise for AJ, and some criticisms too.

Same for Wilder....

I am more critical in my assessments for Fury than praising. But I am assessing him as an elite HW. And most the criticism stems from the fact that I think AJ and Wilder KO him.....the criticisms are the points I make to back up this belief..

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 11:01am

walshb wrote: »

Indeed.

Me: I always praise and criticize ALL fighters equally..

Plenty praise for AJ, and some criticisms too.

Same for Wilder....

I am more critical in my assessments for Fury than praising. But I am assessing him as an elite HW. And most the criticism stems from the fact that I think AJ and Wilder KO him.....the criticisms are the points I make to back up this belief..

Wilder can KO anyone from any era with one shot that's just a fact ,

I think Fury beats AJ with ease 8 times out of 10,i think he'd make AJ look foolish ,

I allow 2 times for AJ just down to the fact there heavy weights so everyone has a punchers chance,

walshb · 29-01-2020 11:08am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wilder can KO anyone from any era with one shot that's just a fact ,

I think Fury beats AJ with ease 8 times out of 10,i think he'd make AJ look foolish ,

I allow 2 times for AJ just down to the fact there heavy weights so everyone has a punchers chance,

AJ and Fury probably will never fight due to the pathetic shenanigans that is pro boxing.

And I don't want to hear the whole "Eddie is too sacred to risk AJ v Fury" crap!

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 11:24am

walshb wrote: »

AJ and Fury probably will never fight due to the pathetic shenanigans that is pro boxing.

And I don't want to hear the whole "Eddie is too sacred to risk AJ v Fury" crap!

Lets be fair AJ needs to fight one of Wilder or Fury ,

AJ has some great wins but he needs to just fight Wilder or Fury end off , The other two have stepped up time for AJ to do the same ,

In a way AJ might be more willing now seen as he's 0 is gone ,
To me its a shame he didn't fight one of the two when they both had perfect records, Just to add to the occasion ,

walshb · 29-01-2020 11:44am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Lets be fair AJ needs to fight one of Wilder or Fury ,

AJ has some great wins but he needs to just fight Wilder or Fury end off , The other two have stepped up time for AJ to do the same ,

In a way AJ might be more willing now seen as he's 0 is gone ,
To me its a shame he didn't fight one of the two when they both had perfect records, Just to add to the occasion ,

Of course he needs to fight Wilder and Fury.....

But you can't lay the blame only on him for the fights not happening.

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 11:49am

walshb wrote: »

Of course he needs to fight Wilder and Fury.....

But you can't lay the blame only on him for the fights not happening.

He's the champ if he wants a fight it'll happen ,

After seeing him get beat up by Ruiz the first time the other two will be licking there lips to get in there,

walshb · 29-01-2020 1:27pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He's the champ if he wants a fight it'll happen ,

,

There is so much posturing on all sides that nobody knows what to believe

But, didn't Wilder turn down an offer/offers to fight AJ?

Yes, using excuses of money and other things......I believe he would have had a career high payday had he accepted...

It's all baloney.....

At least Wilder and Fury are doing it again.......I'll give them that, but just because AJ hasn't fought either, doesn't preclude the other two from blame...

nacho libre · 29-01-2020 1:29pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua will take another loss or two before a Fury or Wilder fight happens anyway. I'd be pretty confident about that, especially if he's forced to fight Usyk.

If Usyk demolishes Chisora, i would expect Joshua to vacate a belt to avoid Usyk. He'll spout some nonsense about how he had no choice, but it will be crap- just like his offer to spar Fury.

walshb · 29-01-2020 1:43pm

nacho libre wrote: »

If Usyk demolishes Chisora, i would expect Joshua to vacate a belt to avoid Usyk. He'll spout some nonsense about how he had no choice, but it will be crap- just like his offer to spar Fury.

Similar to how Haye demolished a prime Chisora?

Were big HW men then afaraid of Haye because of the "demolition" job he did on Chisora...

And how does Usyk demolish Chisora? Brutal KO, brutal cumulative beat-down TKO, one -sided points demolition?

Guys, Chisora is muck!!!!!!

And really, why would it matter to AJ? Usyk's still 210 lbs and still a blown up CW...

Seriously, the anti AJ bias here is weird. You'd swear the lad was a cowering wreck, afraid to step in a boxing ring with anyone....

Yet, only weeks ago he stepped back into a ring with a man who beat him down...

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 3:08pm

walshb wrote: »

Similar to how Haye demolished a prime Chisora?

Were big HW men then afaraid of Haye because of the "demolition" job he did on Chisora...

And how does Usyk demolish Chisora? Brutal KO, brutal cumulative beat-down TKO, one -sided points demolition?

Guys, Chisora is muck!!!!!!

And really, why would it matter to AJ? Usyk's still 210 lbs and still a blown up CW...

Seriously, the anti AJ bias here is weird. You'd swear the lad was a cowering wreck, afraid to step in a boxing ring with anyone....

Yet, only weeks ago he stepped back into a ring with a man who beat him down...

Chisora is a decent heavy weight I wouldn't go as far to call him muck ,Perfect gate keeper

I reckon around the time of the Haye fight was the worst Chisora we have seen, He's way fitter and takes fighting way more serious these days,
He's no world beater but he's no chump either , ,

If Uysk takes him apart that would be a big win, no one since Haye has blow Chisora away everyone in there has been in a fight , bar the Kabayel fight which was just weird ,

walshb · 29-01-2020 3:31pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Chisora is a decent heavy weight I wouldn't go as far to call him muck ,Perfect gate keeper

I reckon around the time of the Haye fight was the worst Chisora we have seen, He's way fitter and takes fighting way more serious these days,
He's no world beater but he's no chump either , ,

If Uysk takes him apart that would be a big win, no one since Haye has blow Chisora away everyone in there has been in a fight , bar the Kabayel fight which was just weird ,

But this still doesn't address my points to nacho...

nacho implying that AJ will then be afraid to fight Usyk

This is just utter rubbish, with all due respect to nacho...

Usyk is favorite, and rightly so, to beat Chisora....how he does it matters not a damn here. At least not a damn worth talking about, or a damn that AJ suddenly doesn't want to fight Usyk.

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 3:44pm

walshb wrote: »

But this still doesn't address my points to nacho...

nacho implying that AJ will then be afraid to fight Usyk

This is just utter rubbish, with all due respect to nacho...

Usyk is favorite, and rightly so, to beat Chisora....how he does it matters not a damn here. At least not a damn worth talking about, or a damn that AJ suddenly doesn't want to fight Usyk.

Well honestly if Usyk is sensational ( I don't think he will be) it wouldn't surprise me either if something comes up as a reason AJ can't fight him ,

Lets not forget since AJ beat a 2 year retired Wlad he's fought,

Takam ( awful )
Parker ( unbeaten at the time but since been poor , even poor before that against Hugie Fury )
AVP ( well past his best since he came off the jesus Juice )
Ruiz twice ,( a nobody who will return to being a nobody )

walshb · 29-01-2020 4:11pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Well honestly if Usyk is sensational ( I don't think he will be) it wouldn't surprise me either if something comes up as a reason AJ can't fight him ,

Lets not forget since AJ beat a 2 year retired Wlad he's fought,

Takam ( awful )
Parker ( unbeaten at the time but since been poor , even poor before that against Hugie Fury )
AVP ( well past his best since he came off the jesus Juice )
Ruiz twice ,( a nobody who will return to being a nobody )

Yes, and Ruiz, a man who beat him up

So, this in itself shows character and courage to get back in...

Fury has fought bums since his return........apart from Wilder

Let's forget this naming nonsense

Stick to the point: AJ being afraid to fight a blown up CW because said CW may dio a number on a gatekeeper...

yourdeadwright · 29-01-2020 4:22pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, and Ruiz, a man who beat him up

So, this in itself shows character and courage to get back in...

Fury has fought bums since his return........apart from Wilder

Let's forget this naming nonsense

Stick to the point: AJ being afraid to fight a blown up CW because said CW may dio a number on a gatekeeper...

He got beat by Andy Ruiz , who does he step down to fight as a warm up homer Simpson ? AJ had no choice but to take the rematch or he was finished,

If blow up CW wins easy then yes AJ will avoid him,

Didn't the WBO order the fight last December ? AJ could have taken that fight if its so easy ?

walshb · 29-01-2020 5:38pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If blow up CW wins easy then yes AJ will avoid him,

Ok, so you agree with it. You should have just said this.

If Usyk does a number on Chisora, AJ will avoid him...

That to me is rubbish.

For me it comes across as just the usual anti AJ, which is what you spout a lot!

nacho libre · 29-01-2020 10:13pm

walshb wrote: »

Similar to how Haye demolished a prime Chisora?

Were big HW men then afaraid of Haye because of the "demolition" job he did on Chisora...

And how does Usyk demolish Chisora? Brutal KO, brutal cumulative beat-down TKO, one -sided points demolition?

Guys, Chisora is muck!!!!!!

Yet, only weeks ago he stepped back into a ring with a man who beat him down...

He had little choice but to rematch Ruiz. Also the first fight has scarred him, as he was afraid of his life to trade with Ruiz in the rematch. As for Chisora, now that he takes training seriously, he will be a good test for Usyk. When i say Usyk could demolish Chisora, i don't expect a one punch ko, but rather a late tko or a wide decision on the score cards. I get the distinct impression Joshua is more keen to face Pulev because he sees it as an easy defense. Maybe saying he will avoid Uysk is over stating it, but i definitely feel he will not be as keen to fight Usyk should he do a number on Chisora

squinn2912 · 29-01-2020 10:46pm

Doing a number on Chisora means FFFFF ALL. What is he now 36 or 37? He spent his best ten years acting the fool vastly overweight. He had a good rip up with whyte and all of a sudden he’s the measuring stick? No way. Usyk should beat him. He might get it tight enough. If he hammers him yea it’ll look good but 1 I don’t think that’ll happen and 2 it won’t have aj quaking in his boots. He’d throttle chisora.

On the failure to make a fight vs fury or wilder I think aj and his team don’t look great. Since wilder and fury have fought each other, Ortiz and a winning, more prime, Wlad, they’ve both stepped up

squinn2912 · 29-01-2020 11:33pm

Dubois vs Joyce seemingly near to being made for April 18. Interesting fight

walshb · 30-01-2020 10:04am

nacho libre wrote: »

I get the distinct impression Joshua is more keen to face Pulev because he sees it as an easy defense. Maybe saying he will avoid Uysk is over stating it, but i definitely feel he will not be as keen to fight Usyk should he do a number on Chisora

Maybe he is.....most boxers/people will choose an easier situation if it's possible at the time.....it doesn't mean they are scared/afraid, or won't step up to the plate.

Same for Usyk......I doubt he is relishing the prospects of trying to win a tilte vs Wilder or AJ, compared to bagging one v a Chisora, for example...Usyk is not silly. He knows Wilder and AJ are very heavy hitters, and also, bigger men than he; AJ being considerably bigger...

There just seems to be a rush to slate/criticise AJ on the forum far quicker than to slate/criticise any other.

Heavyweight Boxing

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