Frongoch internment camp.

Irish at Frongoch.
Would not inform on Comrade Prisoners.
The Commandant’s Threat.
Fifteen “hut leaders” of Irish prisoners at Frongoch have been court-martialled for refusing, with other men, to answer roll call. One of the accused put the case in a nutshell by stating that to answer would be “ to inform on a comrade” thereby delivering him up as liable to service in the English Army. Mr Gavan Duffy, for the prisoners, complained that the Press was not admitted. The Commandant (Lt. Col. Ivor Bowen) emphatically refused admission to the Press stating he had orders from Home Office to admit no strangers. The Court then moved from the prison to outside when the Press was admitted. Mr Richard Mulcahy (344), also charged on the same counts, pleaded not guilty. Evidence as to his being a hut leader and being present at the Commandant’s office and afterwards failing to answer roll-call, was given by Lt. and Adjt. Burns and Sergeant-Major Newstead. Cross-examined by Mr Duffy, Lt. Burns stated that two of the 15 leaders told the Commandant at the interview that they wished to be relieved of the position of hut leaders. Accused (Mulcahy) might have been one of the two. Mr Duffy said it was essential that the prosecution prove the Royal warrant under which the Court was constituted, because if it was not proved the whole cases fell to the ground. The Court was not sitting by virtue of any Act of Parliament, and was ultra vires. The Judge-Advocate said the Court was held by virtue of His Majesty’s Commissions and under the authority of C. -in-C. General Sir Pitcairn Campbell. Mr Duffy also submitted that the Court failed to produce an essential averment that the accused was a prisoner of war—they should have produced proper legal evidence, the Home Office Order of internment. The accused, Mulcahy, volunteered a statement, and addressing the Court said up to 7th Nov, he never refused to answer roll-call. Immediately prior to that date over 200 men refused to answer their names or numbers, as they knew that in the case of Michael Murphy, wanted as an absentee under the Military Service Act, a wrong man was taken and M. Murphy was still in the camp. They feared that other interned men would be similarly wanted. He told the Commandant that the hut leaders as Irish prisoners could not well dissociate themselves from the attitude of the other prisoners, but the Commandant simply declined to discuss what he called “those politics. ” Accused then asked to resign the leadership and the Commandant said he would accept the offer. When they went back to camp on 7th Nov., they found it occupied by a large party of military. Though he told his comrades that the Commandant said “he was not now” looking for a Military Service man, the prisoners, knowing that a Military Service man was amongst the, said that they could not answer the proposed roll-call without disclosing this man. Accused accordingly said each man should judge for himself, and when the roll was called he, too, did not answer. “The Court may understand this better, ” accused said; “if I put it this way. If a German interned among English soldiers by the Germans were wanted for the German Army what would be thought of those English soldiers if they gave that man up and informed on him to the German authorities? There are men here who fought in the insurrection; many are here who did not; but most of them now are very sympathetic with those who did. ” Members of the Court, at mention of the German analogy, smiled, and remarked they had not looked at the affair in that light before. Accused stated that for ordinary discipline the roll had never been called before. It was provocative to call it at that time (7th Nov. ) in view of the circumstances stated. The discipline would be unimpaired if the roll was not enforced. President—I don’t see how your opinion justifies your offence. Accused—Well, I wanted to get it off my chest (laughter). I do not wish to criticise—merely to explain our attitude. President—We are pleased to hear you, and I think you gave us a very capable statement. Lt. and Adjt. Burns admitted I cross-examination that the prisoners were a fine body of men and were respectful and well-conducted “to a certain extent, ” and the hut-leaders were of great assistance n running the camp. In cross-examination, Sergeant-Major Newstead stated he did not hear the Commandant say that if rations were not drawn they would be left in the compound, and if the men did not cook the meat they could starve. Did the Commandant say that if he had nothing in the Camp but dead bodies he would have discipline?—Yes, I believe he did say that. Were extra soldiers brought to the Camp and three sentries with fixed bayonets outside each hut?—Yes, on the morning of the 7th. Accused said the Commandant threatened that any man refusing to answer would be taken to the South Camp and deprived of parcels and letters, etc. Accused did not answer roll, as it would be informing upon a comrade. Judge-Advocate-The accused has put the whole case in a nutshell. The Court was adjourned, and decisions on cases tried were not announced.
The Committees of London, Manchester, Liverpool, and Glasgow, affiliated with the Irish National Aid and Volunteers Dependents Fund, co-operate in looking after the interned men and send on to Frongoch. Camp regular weekly supplies of all necessaries. The Dublin Executive assist in this work, and will gladly give information on it. Relatives and friends, when forwarding parcels direct to the interned men, are advised to send notice to the Hon. Secs., 10 Exchequer Street, Dublin, who will assist in securing delivery. Irish Ladies are invited to send to the Irish National Aid offices gifts of woollen mufflers, gloves, and wristlets, which are needed by the interned men for the winter.

Regbutler wrote: »

. Another, Michael McHugh was in The Scrubs for Anti British writing, he worked for the Tuam Hearald and Freeman's Journal but we can't find any mention of him anywhere.

McHugh M. of Castlebar was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation.
McHugh Michael Comdt a Comandant IRA, Mayo, 1921 ,made a "Witness Statement" number 1632 to The "Bureau of Military History"

From an online source - Patrick Joseph (PJ) Doris, this man was interned under Regulation 14 B of the Defense of the Realm Regulations, on the recommendation of a competent military authority, on the ground, which was communicated to him, that he is of hostile associations and is reasonably suspected of having favored, promoted, or assisted an armed insurrection against His Majesty. He had full opportunity of stating his case to the Advisory Committee, who recommended his continued internment. I have no knowledge of his having refused to insert a recruiting advertisement.

---

At some point he was transferred to Reading Gaol one month after Timothy Healy interviewed him at Frongoch (interviewed - 11th August 1916)(his brother (a member of the houses of Parliament) was named by him as his accuser & had him arrested as they were both vying for the same seat in a local election (the two never spoke to each other after this event). Can you give me any information on when PJ arrived or any other little bits of information on his time there

Robus
Would you have anything on your database for Mark Walsh who was at the GPO. I can see him listed on the Irishmedals site but no idea where to find any other information on him - he doesn't seem to have made a witness statement. Also do you know did everyone (I also have great uncles at both Bolands and Jacobs) end up being transported to Frongoch or did some just 'walk away' ?
thanks

Thanks very much robus. Pity no sign of Mark Walsh.
What you say about some men at Jacobs fits in with what I heard, that the g.uncle i had there basically just walked home.

The third uncle was at Bolands and I read somewhere that Dev made the men march and surrender officially - could I hassle you for a look up for him (last one I promise) name Tom McGrane.
thanks again.

Thanks again robus - very kind. Tom Mc G at Jacobs (not Bolands as I thought) seems most likely so I guess I am off to Collins Barracks to see that Roll of Honour.
cheers.

Hi there Robus - you've inspired my first post! My great-uncle Andy Redmond (Dublin - but I'm not sure where) ended up in Frongoch I think. Do you have any information on him?

Thank you Robus. I think you are right about 1,4, and 5. I believe he also had a brother who also took part in the Rising but as the brother was just 15 he got no more than a kick up the arse from a British officer before being told to go home to his mother. There may well be no record here! I believe he also had a brother serving with the British Army in France at the time. I have some serious genealogical digging to do. Thank you for all your excellent help.

HI WW, here is a few options , regards Robus
Here are all the J and James Quinn options

• Quinn J Died 09/July/1921 , See Who's who War Of Independence
• Quinn J Died 24/April/1916 , See Who's who War Of Independence
• Quinn J. of South Union Workhouse aged 42 was Interned at Glasnevin Cemetery
• Quinn James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Quinn James Killed In Action,
• Quinn James of Camolin Park, Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
• Quinn James See Catholic Bulletin dated September 1916
• Quinn James South Dublin Union Garrison , National Museum Roll Of Honour

A Doyle

• Doyle A. (jun) of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Doyle Andy Enniscorthy, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Doyle Andy Jnr. Enniscorthy, : Frongoch Roll Book

I found Wafer

• Wafer John of Shannon, Enniscorthy :Occupation Clerk, was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Woking Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916

All Camolin

• Barnes Michael Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Barnes Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Boland Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Boland Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Breen Joseph Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Breen Myles Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Brennan Mathew of Camolin, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
• Brennan-Whitmore W.J. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Connors John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Doyle Charles Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Jackman N.R. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kavanagh John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kavanagh John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kelly James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kelly John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kelly John of Clonee, Camolin, Wexford :Occupation Labourer,was removed on 12th May 1916 from Richmond Barracks, Dublin and lodged in Wakefield Detention Barracks on 13th May 1916
• Kenny Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Kinsella Robert Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Maguire Jehr. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• McDonald Ed of Camolin was released on 29th May 1916 following a full military investigation.
• McDonald Edward of Kilborea, Camolin, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
• Murphy Denis Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Murphy James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Murphy Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Murphy T. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• O'Breslin James F. Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Quinn James Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Quinn James of Camolin Park, Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Wandsworth Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916.
• Redmond Owen Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Roche John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Roche Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Ronan Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Sinnott Michael Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Sunderland John Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Tomkins Patrick Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Whelan Thomas Ferns/Clonee/Camolin, : Frongoch Roll Book
• Whitmore William of Clonee, Camolin, Co Wexford :Occupation Farmer, was transferred from Richmond Barracks , Dublin to Knutsford Barracks on 3rd May 1916

And Shannon hill

• ?Mahernatty Henry of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy:Occupation Lab, was transferred from Richmond Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916 to Lewes Detention Barracks
• Cahill M. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Doyle A. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Doyle A. (jun) of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Doyle Michael of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy:Occupation Labourer, was transferred from Richmond Detention Barracks on 19th May 1916 to Lewes Detention Barracks
• Doyle T. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Gallagher John of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy :Occupation Ledger clerk,was removed on 12th May 1916 from Richmond Barracks, Dublin and lodged in Wakefield Detention Barracks on 13th May 1916
• Lacey J. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Thorpe W. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Thorpe W. of Shannon Hill, Enniscorthy was transferred from Richmond Barracks, Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916
• Water P. of Shannon Hill, Enniscothy, Co Wexford was transferred from Richmond Barracks Dublin to Stafford Detention Barracks on 1st May 1916

Hi Robus
Just came across these boards while doing some digging for my family tree. Was wondering if you have any information about John Dutton Cooper. I've been told that he took part in the Rising and was imprisoned. He lived in Dublin.
Thanks for any info.

Thanks for the info. What does (ICA) stand for?

From his baptism record he lived on 82 Lower Camden St in 1870, in 1901 he was at 20 Long Lane, in 1911 he is at 13 Aldborough Parade so it seems like he moved around a lot.
Are these 2 different Johns or would it be 2 different internments? I am afraid I don't know much about the history yet.

Thanks very much.

My great grandfather was Michael O Mahoney who was from Cork ( Bantry I think) and he was imprisoned at Frongoch along with his brother name unknown. His brother was executed in Frongoch. Can you give me any information????

I've not come across mention of an execution at Frongoch.

A number of German Prisoners of War died at Frongoch before and after the Irish and all have death certs. There is no death cert for an O'Mahoney in North Wales in 1916.

The Rebellion Handbook has a C O'Mahony from Ahiohill, Enniskeen, Co Cork as sent to Wakefield 2nd June 1916. There is a John O'Mahoney from Dublin listed in this batch.