General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

thequarefellow · 22-05-2020 9:53am

Is it time for a 'Who would you vote for if a new election is called?' thread?

WishUWereHere · 22-05-2020 10:11am

thequarefellow wrote: »

Is it time for a 'Who would you vote for if a new election is called?' thread?

Good point. And for me a real tough decision to be made.

maynooth_rules · 22-05-2020 10:56am

thequarefellow wrote: »

Is it time for a 'Who would you vote for if a new election is called?' thread?

Personally id vote for a party that actually would be interested in forming a government, not sitting on the ditch. That would rule out Soc Dems, SF, PBP and possibly greens.

Sam Russell · 22-05-2020 11:14am

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Personally id vote for a party that actually would be interested in forming a government, not sitting on the ditch. That would rule out Soc Dems, SF, PBP and possibly greens.

Well, the Greens currently have the opportunity to form a Gov, so if they do, then there will not be a vote. On the other hand, if they do not, then they will fall into the group that does not get your vote. Hmmm .... difficult.

L1011 · 22-05-2020 11:16am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, the Greens currently have the opportunity to form a Gov, so if they do, then there will not be a vote. On the other hand, if they do not, then they will fall into the group that does not get your vote. Hmmm .... difficult.

There's a difference between actually trying and not trying at all.

Sam Russell · 22-05-2020 11:21am

L1011 wrote: »

There's a difference between actually trying and not trying at all.

True.

Good loser · 23-05-2020 1:54am

oceanman wrote: »

health and housing were a total shambles...

Disagree. Who, in the last thirty years, was a better Minister for Health than Harris? Wasn't it Cowan referred to it as Angola?

Housing has been run as well as possible. There is not unlimited money to build limitless amounts of houses - and give to people more or less for free.
If loads of houses were built the prices would fall and nobody would want to buy. They must always be scarce and hard to get.
People always refer to the fifties and all the Council houses built then, but in those days Social Welfare did not comprise 30% of current Govt expenditure.
I've heard nobody suggest taking €5 bn per annum (or even €1 bn) from social welfare budget to increase public housing.
Murphy has done as well as the rest of them.

L1011 · 23-05-2020 2:09am

Good loser wrote: »

Disagree. Who, in the last thirty years, was a better Minister for Health than Harris? Wasn't it Cowan referred to it as Angola?

Howlin? Although he got lucky timing wise as goes when legacy scandals that would have been challenging to handle (and Noonan didn't handle properly) popped up.

Martin's positives in the job are entirely cancelled by forming the HSE

BonnieSituation · 23-05-2020 3:40am

Good loser wrote: »

Disagree. Who, in the last thirty years, was a better Minister for Health than Harris? Wasn't it Cowan referred to it as Angola?

Housing has been run as well as possible. There is not unlimited money to build limitless amounts of houses - and give to people more or less for free.
If loads of houses were built the prices would fall and nobody would want to buy. They must always be scarce and hard to get.
People always refer to the fifties and all the Council houses built then, but in those days Social Welfare did not comprise 30% of current Govt expenditure.
I've heard nobody suggest taking €5 bn per annum (or even €1 bn) from social welfare budget to increase public housing.
Murphy has done as well as the rest of them.

WHY?

Downlinz · 23-05-2020 3:50pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Personally id vote for a party that actually would be interested in forming a government, not sitting on the ditch. That would rule out Soc Dems, SF, PBP and possibly greens.

Every party held discussions on government formation with the exception of Labour, it's important not to equate refusing to be the 3rd piece in a FF/FG centre right coalition as not wanting to be in government.

SF, SD and one half of the greens are especially interested in being part of the countries first progressive government though I'm guessing you knew that already!

maynooth_rules · 23-05-2020 10:35pm

Downlinz wrote: »

Every party held discussions on government formation with the exception of Labour, it's important not to equate refusing to be the 3rd piece in a FF/FG centre right coalition as not wanting to be in government.

SF, SD and one half of the greens are especially interested in being part of the countries first progressive government though I'm guessing you knew that already!

Countries first progressive government is very much open to opinion. Having witnessed SF in action in the north, to think they would be progressive in the Republic is a bit of a stretch IMO. Just repeating the word 'change' in an election campaign does not make them progressive. The level of discussions that SF held was utterly minimal also. Yes the numbers were a stretch, but no real attempt was made.

CrabRevolution · 24-05-2020 3:51pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Countries first progressive government is very much open to opinion. Having witnessed SF in action in the north, to think they would be progressive in the Republic is a bit of a stretch IMO. Just repeating the word 'change' in an election campaign does not make them progressive. The level of discussions that SF held was utterly minimal also. Yes the numbers were a stretch, but no real attempt was made.

I think it was Eoin Ó Broin on the radio soon after the election saying "We've no problem joining a coalition with FG/FF; once it includes 50'000 social houses built a year, tax cuts, PS pay rises, social welfare rises, building hospitals, abolishing USC, no carbon tax, abolish property tax, more money for farmers, rent to be capped at 100 a week etc. But if we can't guarantee these things we'll walk away"

Effectively saying "we'll join a coalition once the other party has no say in actually governing the country. Their job will be to vote for all SF's policies in the Dáil"

That's tantamount to not attempting to form a government.

L1011 · 24-05-2020 4:01pm

Downlinz wrote: »

Every party held discussions on government formation with the exception of Labour, it's important not to equate refusing to be the 3rd piece in a FF/FG centre right coalition as not wanting to be in government.

SF, SD and one half of the greens are especially interested in being part of the countries first progressive government though I'm guessing you knew that already!

Labour made requests that would need to be discussed to enter negotiations with FF/FG, with no response provided to them.

More practical than talking to SF about the impossible numbers game they were trying to do

Good loser · 24-05-2020 6:50pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I think it was Eoin Ó Broin on the radio soon after the election saying "We've no problem joining a coalition with FG/FF; once it includes 50'000 social houses built a year, tax cuts, PS pay rises, social welfare rises, building hospitals, abolishing USC, no carbon tax, abolish property tax, more money for farmers, rent to be capped at 100 a week etc. But if we can't guarantee these things we'll walk away"

Effectively saying "we'll join a coalition once the other party has no say in actually governing the country. Their job will be to vote for all SF's policies in the Dáil"

That's tantamount to not attempting to form a government.

If correct the arrogance of that statement from O'Broin is breathtaking.
His arithmetic doesn't match his arrogance though.
Alone the 50,000 houses would cost €16 billion - per annum!!
Absurd.

Seth Brundle · 24-05-2020 6:56pm

Good loser wrote: »

If correct the arrogance of that statement from O'Broin is breathtaking.
His arithmetic doesn't match his arrogance though.
Alone the 50,000 houses would cost €16 billion - per annum!!
Absurd.

Sure 50k houses over five years as suggested by Eoin is nothing. Ruth Coppinger wants 100k...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-committee-target-50-000-homes-in-five-years-1.2689647

Good loser · 24-05-2020 7:26pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Sure 50k houses over five years as suggested by Eoin is nothing. Ruth Coppinger wants 100k...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-committee-target-50-000-homes-in-five-years-1.2689647

I've read that It piece.
Crab R had said O'B said 50,000 per annum - that should be over 5 years I see now.
Even so that Committee report says €1.8bn per annum would supply 10,000 houses; this is absurd, the usual funny money, crap the fast talking O'Broin slips into discussions on housing. Take everything that man says with a spoon of salt. €1m will supply 3 houses; so €1 bn provides 3,000. So 10,000 per annum will cost € 3.3 billion.

CrabRevolution · 24-05-2020 7:38pm

Apologies if I caused any confusion, but my "50'000 a year" was figurative. I just knew it was some very high number...

Snow Garden · 24-05-2020 8:22pm

Watching the week in politics earlier, the SF TD who I did not recognise was very poor. Refused to answer the questions, stating the obvious continually, talking nonsense too and saying the government should increase the 350 payment and until end of year. They need to just shut up and prepare for opposition. Are they all coached to avoid the question? To be fair all the TDs were poor but the SF lad stood out. Awful moaner.

WishUWereHere · 30-05-2020 9:51pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Watching the week in politics earlier, the SF TD who I did not recognise was very poor. Refused to answer the questions, stating the obvious continually, talking nonsense too and saying the government should increase the 350 payment and until end of year. They need to just shut up and prepare for opposition. Are they all coached to avoid the question? To be fair all the TDs were poor but the SF lad stood out. Awful moaner.

Hard to disagree with one word You say above. But in fairness to the SF bloke, I heard MLou also blabber her mouth off along the same lines. I wonder where they think the money is to come from? The trees, which are also wilting under the heat.

AOn the face being in oppositon? It hurts to have to admit it'll be probably the FFG & the taxing greens for the foreseeable future - unless we can have another election.

ninebeanrows · 31-05-2020 10:19am

Leo should be brave and go to the country

How can he agree rotating Taoiseach when he us polling 35% and Mehole 15%?

Imreoir2 · 31-05-2020 2:24pm

Good loser wrote: »

If correct the arrogance of that statement from O'Broin is breathtaking.
His arithmetic doesn't match his arrogance though.
Alone the 50,000 houses would cost €16 billion - per annum!!
Absurd.

You think the cost price to build a house is €320,000? And that the state would hand them out for free?

RandomViewer · 31-05-2020 2:41pm

Good loser wrote: »

I've read that It piece.
Crab R had said O'B said 50,000 per annum - that should be over 5 years I see now.
Even so that Committee report says €1.8bn per annum would supply 10,000 houses; this is absurd, the usual funny money, crap the fast talking O'Broin slips into discussions on housing. Take everything that man says with a spoon of salt. €1m will supply 3 houses; so €1 bn provides 3,000. So 10,000 per annum will cost € 3.3 billion.

there's no reason why we can't set up a state building agency to build social housing, remove the profit , council would oversee it with builders directly employed by council.

Seth Brundle · 31-05-2020 2:50pm

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Leo should be brave and go to the country

During a pandemic lockdown?

charlie14 · 31-05-2020 5:11pm

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Leo should be brave and go to the country

How can he agree rotating Taoiseach when he us polling 35% and Mehole 15%?

It`s a very fine line that separates brave and reckless.

Rjd2 · 31-05-2020 6:04pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

During a pandemic lockdown?

Yep, if we have an election it can't be business as usual in the era of social distancing and intense personal hygiene.

WishUWereHere · 08-06-2020 8:56pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yep, if we have an election it can't be business as usual in the era of social distancing and intense personal hygiene.

With the internal bickering in the tax mad greens, I think FFG are making one huge mistake inviting the greens into bed. Can see an election before year end, with neither leo/mick/cathy in power.

What a damn mess we are in!

Edit: I meant to say neither Leo/Mick/cathy-eamo as leaders of their respective party's

charlie14 · 08-06-2020 9:30pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

With the internal bickering in the tax mad greens, I think FFG are making one huge mistake inviting the greens into bed. Can see an election before year end, with neither leo/mick/cathy in power.

What a damn mess we are in!

Would a collection of Independents really be any worse than this bunch of Green in-fighting loons ?

WishUWereHere · 08-06-2020 9:37pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Would a collection of Independents really be any worse than this bunch of Green in-fighting loons ?

Good question, and one I honestly cannot answer. One of the few independents who stand out for me is Michael Fitzmaurice. But he's only one, FFG need a multiple of that to carry on their shenanigans without the greens.. And of course, it will be very hard to get 10/12 independents to sing off the same hymn sheet.

FrancieBrady · 08-06-2020 10:03pm

All not good in FF either and Coveney doesn't seem too comfortable. Mess.

BonnieSituation · 08-06-2020 10:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All not good in FF either and Coveney doesn't seem too comfortable. Mess.

Cád é?

FrancieBrady · 08-06-2020 10:23pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cád é?

Just commenting on the chat about the mess the Greens are in. All isn't rosy in any of them.

BonnieSituation · 08-06-2020 10:28pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just commenting on the chat about the mess the Greens are in. All isn't rosy in any of them.

But what exactly are you talking about re Coveney?

beggars_bush · 08-06-2020 10:34pm

I'm looking forward to a few green party ideas in government

Micro energy generation being one
Rainwater collection systems on new houses
Increase in allotment funding
More cycle infrastructure
More public transport investment

FrancieBrady · 08-06-2020 11:14pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But what exactly are you talking about re Coveney?

He was reported to be less than happy at one stage.

BonnieSituation · 08-06-2020 11:29pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He was reported to be less than happy at one stage.

I would be too knowing you've to go to cabinet with Martin. He's gonna have to give up Tánaiste too.

Imreoir2 · 08-06-2020 11:30pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But what exactly are you talking about re Coveney?

He has been constantly sounding off through the whole process, not the actions of someone who is comfortable with where things are going.

WishUWereHere · 09-06-2020 6:03pm

Meanwhile as the ffg'ers are canoodling for a state pension, here comes the bould phil the 'drip'.

https://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-wto-5118395-Jun2020/#comments

Has this clown ANY compunction? And I wonder at the end of the day just how many pensions will this vulture have in his pocket? :rolleyes:

L1011 · 09-06-2020 7:00pm

Trying to pick a replacement commissioner would be a political nightmare right now also, realistically. Probably have to raid the retirement homes like we did for MGQ due to not wanting a face a by-election.

RandomViewer · 09-06-2020 7:05pm

L1011 wrote: »

Trying to pick a replacement commissioner would be a political nightmare right now also, realistically. Probably have to raid the retirement homes like we did for MGQ due to not wanting a face a by-election.

Its Coveney or Varadker, neither wants to be referred to as ex or former

blackwhite · 09-06-2020 8:13pm

L1011 wrote: »

Trying to pick a replacement commissioner would be a political nightmare right now also, realistically. Probably have to raid the retirement homes like we did for MGQ due to not wanting a face a by-election.

Mairead McGuinness could be a possibility (and quite a strong candidate at that).

BonnieSituation · 09-06-2020 8:56pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Meanwhile as the ffg'ers are canoodling for a state pension, here comes the bould phil the 'drip'.

https://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-wto-5118395-Jun2020/#comments

Has this clown ANY compunction? And I wonder at the end of the day just how many pensions will this vulture have in his pocket? :rolleyes:

Regardless of your obvious dislike for Phil, but eh, should people not apply for jobs if they feel they're capable?

Lord knows I'm no fan of Phil, but going to the WTO, how will it affect you outside of being miffed that a Paddy gets the job?

There has been nothing stopping you becoming a TD or official at any point.

WishUWereHere · 09-06-2020 9:20pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Regardless of your obvious dislike for Phil, but eh, should people not apply for jobs if they feel they're capable?

Lord knows I'm no fan of Phil, but going to the WTO, how will it affect you outside of being miffed that a Paddy gets the job?

There has been nothing stopping you becoming a TD or official at any point.

Eh, You mean a person who stated he will order that taps be turned off to a trickle to force the people to pay for water? Sorry, but anyone who issues threats like that is to be despised at all costs. And to think he was elected as a public representative?

Can just imagine phil sitting between trump and the Chinese trying to strike a trade deal lol

Jizique · 09-06-2020 9:23pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Eh, You mean a person who stated he will order that taps be turned off to a trickle to force the people to pay for water? Sorry, but anyone who issues threats like that is to be despised at all costs. And to think he was elected as a public representative?

Can just imagine phil sitting between trump and the Chinese trying to strike a trade deal lol

Sorry to disappoint but Trump doesn’t negotiate trade deals.

L1011 · 09-06-2020 10:41pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Its Coveney or Varadker, neither wants to be referred to as ex or former

Varadkar has a very good PR way to spend his 18 months off - don't take a ministry, do 4 days a week as a hospital doctor. Id be amazed if that hasn't been decided as his path already

blackwhite wrote: »

Mairead McGuinness could be a possibility (and quite a strong candidate at that).

I think her first sub as MEP is Gabby McFadden which would be useful to get her profile back up also

BonnieSituation · 09-06-2020 10:49pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Eh, You mean a person who stated he will order that taps be turned off to a trickle to force the people to pay for water?

Right? You obviously took that personally?

You still not paying for your bins eh?

Sorry, but anyone who issues threats like that is to be despised at all costs.

Can I see your hate scale?

And to think he was elected as a public representative?

The people of Carlow/KK decided he was worthy of a seat in Dáil Éireann. I didn't vote for him.

If I had the misfortune to live in Carlow or Kilkenny I likely wouldn't have either.

To piss and moan about him now is hilarious.

Can just imagine phil sitting between trump and the Chinese trying to strike a trade deal lol

Your awareness and knowledge really summarised right there. G'luck.

BonnieSituation · 09-06-2020 10:53pm

L1011 wrote: »

Varadkar has a very good PR way to spend his 18 months off - don't take a ministry, do 4 days a week as a hospital doctor. Id be amazed if that hasn't been decided as his path already

Not a hope.

There is an elegant handover of Phil leaving and LV taking the Commissioner job. But it ain't happening now.

We all know that this is the time for change in FG if they end up without the Taoiseach's office in the next govt.

Leo couldn't possibly take any local demotion. It couldn't possibly happen.

BonnieSituation · 09-06-2020 10:54pm

L1011 wrote: »

Varadkar has a very good PR way to spend his 18 months off - don't take a ministry, do 4 days a week as a hospital doctor. Id be amazed if that hasn't been decided as his path already

Not a hope.

There is an elegant handover of Phil leaving and LV taking the Commissioner job. But it ain't happening now.

We all know that this is the time for change in FG if they end up without the Taoiseach's office in the next govt.

Leo couldn't possibly take any local demotion. It couldn't happen.

BonnieSituation · 09-06-2020 10:54pm

L1011 wrote: »

Varadkar has a very good PR way to spend his 18 months off - don't take a ministry, do 4 days a week as a hospital doctor. Id be amazed if that hasn't been decided as his path already

Not a hope.

There is an elegant handover of Phil leaving and LV taking the Commissioner job. But it ain't happening now.

We all know that this is the time for change in FG if they end up without the Taoiseach's office in the next govt.

Leo couldn't possibly take any local demotion. It couldn't happen.

L1011 · 10-06-2020 8:03am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Leo couldn't possibly take any local demotion. It couldn't possibly happen.

Declining a ministry so he can "assist our health services in this time of crisis" avoids the demotion element. Remember he'll be back in 18 months so the Commissioner role would not be appropriate at all.

BonnieSituation · 10-06-2020 4:56pm

L1011 wrote: »

Declining a ministry so he can "assist our health services in this time of crisis" avoids the demotion element. Remember he'll be back in 18 months so the Commissioner role would not be appropriate at all.

I don't see how you can see this as anything other than a demotion. If he's not Taoiseach by the end of this process I don't see how he would stay in government.

But he's certainly not toddling off to be a doctor for a year and a half.

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

Comments