The Strike is over. What happens now?

K.G. wrote: »

Its amazing i see as the processor in complete control from start to finish of the blockades even still they are showing control and others see it completely different. Blockades weakness is that they are.illegal and once the factories had an injunction they are absolved from any contractual losses which liability passes onto the named people.injunctions had nothing to do with keeping factories open it was a way of closing them and sending cattle for a spin was all part of the process.therefore the factories could sit and wait. Which they did until creed begged them to give the farmer negotiaters a way out.make no mistake the factories were sitting pretty and under no pressure to come back to the table.every thing was in their favour and still is.but anyway i could be wrong

and what doesn't kill them will make them stronger. They will learn plenty from the past 7 weeks. no doubt they have wise heads working out already how they can best position themselves in the time ahead so there business isn't put in a similar position next time.

Base price wrote: »

TBH I hoped that these talks would have insisted that our certified independent verification body (NSAI) be appointed to oversee the VIA's (video imagining analysis) system that is used to grade our cattle in Irish meat factories. It has been a thorn in my side for several years. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be included in the recent agreement.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96839559&postcount=134
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96839559

There would have been no talks only for the protests

wrangler wrote: »

Just looking at my own posts from that time, my opinion of the PS was spot on regarding the monitoring of the grading....... can't be trusted, is the NSAI part of the public service as well, My heart goes out to the million people that are now on the HSE waiting lists

You'll have to retrain as a Doctor or a nurse or a teacher and show them how it's done

wrangler wrote: »

I think you could even be one of them

I think it's time for bed. Some of us have work in the morning:D

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Bonuses start from today, apparently.
https://twitter.com/farmersjournal/status/1176128815191527425?s=19

I think it's time for us to consider about getting BB certified.

freedominacup wrote: »

I'll have a go. A version of this was scheme was floated around here about 15 years ago. Basically feedlot not registered for vat. Company formed to grow all feed incl all costs relating to machinery. Company vat registered. Grows and sells all "feed" incl grazed grass to feedlot. No vat charged on animal feed afaik. Feedlot because not registered is paid vat on cattle sales with no obligation to pay this to revenue. All vat on inputs claimed by company. Then depending on where you want profits to end up. One side or other of the operation is run at a slight loss or close to break even.

Probably sailing close to the wind but not a scam or illegal. Lot of pig farms on it I would think where they have their own mills. I don't know why chicken farms got caught out.

Thanks freedom..remember the chicken one from that time. There are slight versions of this on many farms where feed (maize, wholecrops etc) is contract purchased through contractors or vat reg tillage lads and bought in vat free, while all the vat elements of the inputs (sprays, contracting, haulage) are reclaimed by the seller. It can even happen in small.instances where fertiliser and lime is bought spread.

Cant see the "vat scam" can work for the feedlot as the value put on the animal while in the feedlot is too small..too late now, tomorrow's sums

The vat loophole is perfectly Irish revenue legal but anti competitive per the recent eu France pig farmers versus Germany case decision. In a nutshell , the eu states that you cannot make a large gain from the flat rate vat and it’s only meant for small farmers to save everyone the trouble of doing and checking vat returns . It works perfectly well even up to those lads with 7 or 800 cattle as they tend to have big farms and lots of vatable invoices with machinery etc
But if you have 10,000 cattle in a feedlot and are getting 5.4% on every sale then that’s way more than compensating you for not being able to claim vat back on your vatable invoices. We are talking hundreds of thousands more of pure profit.
The example you give above is a perfectly legal add on to that vat loophole and icsa warned about the possibility of this being abused a lot further by manipulating feed costs etc a year or two ago. This last bit is illegal but apparently has being going on for years in certain agri sectors.

longgonesilver wrote: »

If you have 10000 cattle your turnover will be way over 10 million, surely they should be registered for VAT.

Can a company even qualify for these vat returns? Do they not have to be vat registered

No , farmers have always had the option to register or not to register and use the flat rate compensation scheme instead. Yes company is same thing once it’s farming .

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Its not the price to build the factory that is the issue. In general cattle slaughtered on the day are paid on the day( or at least the cheque is posted 24-48 hours later. If cattle are hung for 21 days and then packaged you are looking at 21+ days storage. Retailers look for 90 days credit. In essence yoy are looking at carrying stock for 4 months. For a processor slaughtering 500 cattle/day you are looking at 40-60 million in capital to hold stock





Yes the vat is entirely legal at present. However the Irish Government could change the rules at ant stage. For Processors feedlots slaughtering 80K cattle over the year its worth approx 5.5 million. For a larger feedlot killing 3k cattle over a winter,it worth over 200K. There is no way these business have that sort of vat issue.

I wonder when are Beef Plan going to challenge the Tax free land leases or 90% discount of farm transfers, are they working for revenue or what

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Notting to do with beef plan. You are so brainwashed by the IFA it's unbelievable.

The deal won't deliver €100m in five years, if it ever does, yet they still think they can boast, you must be brainwashed not to see how poor the whole thing is and what it cost farmers.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Its not the price to build the factory that is the issue. In general cattle slaughtered on the day are paid on the day( or at least the cheque is posted 24-48 hours later. If cattle are hung for 21 days and then packaged you are looking at 21+ days storage. Retailers look for 90 days credit. In essence yoy are looking at carrying stock for 4 months. For a processor slaughtering 500 cattle/day you are looking at 40-60 million in capital to hold stock





Yes the vat is entirely legal at present. However the Irish Government could change the rules at ant stage. For Processors feedlots slaughtering 80K cattle over the year its worth approx 5.5 million. For a larger feedlot killing 3k cattle over a winter,it worth over 200K. There is no way these business have that sort of vat issue.

Overall it wouldn’t be as much as 5.5m. Not without fiddling the books anyway. 5.5m would be the actual vat on their sales but then you would have to take off the vat they can’t get back and compare the figure to what it would be if they were registered . Only guessing but More like €2-2.5m with 80,000 cattle I’d say or about a 4% extra bonus payment per animal. —Feedlot bonus, lol 😳 - Maybe govt should give a grassland bonus to match it.

wrangler wrote: »

I wonder when are Beef Plan going to challenge the Tax free land leases or 90% discount of farm transfers, are they working for revenue or what

Totally different tax reliefs but either are little value to commercial farmers in reality. One drives up the prices of leases and both drive up the value of land.

wrangler wrote: »

The deal won't deliver €100m in five years, if it ever does, yet they still think they can boast, you must be brainwashed not to see how poor the whole thing is and what it cost farmers.

Well from the journal the present deal is worth 23 million/year to farmers. If we factor in that the price would be 3-3.3/kg if no protest. If we factor in that it keep cattle prices up by 20c/kg for the next 3 months it worth 45 million. That gives a total of 68 million. Only 70 million of the Beam scheme was taken up and it was a selective scheme. Some will be clawed back in penalties so it worth much the same as the Beam scheme.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Totally different tax reliefs but either are little value to commercial farmers in reality. One drives up the prices of leases and both drive up the value of land.



Well from the journal the present deal is worth 23 million/year to farmers. If we factor in that the price would be 3-3.3/kg if no protest. If we factor in that it keep cattle prices up by 20c/kg for the next 3 months it worth 45 million. That gives a total of 68 million. Only 70 million of the Beam scheme was taken up and it was a selective scheme. Some will be clawed back in penalties so it worth much the same as the Beam scheme.

A lot of ifs there, protests have cost sheep farmers the most of half a million and no ifs, there's a massive price drop in England this week which can only aggravate the situation here........but then sure I flagged that situation on here months ago but you wouldn't let sheep be killed