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Lumen's winter TT prep plan

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12467…10

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  • Options
    #92
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    rottenhat wrote: »
    That's what it used to be. It seems to have switched to step up to racing while my back was turned though.

    I believe it happened just after the invention of the STI lever, whilst you were off somewhere oiling your saddlebag.
    lukester wrote: »
    Was pondering this which offers a fullish range at both bottom and top.

    That's a semi. I want one too.


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    #93
    blorg
    Registered Users Posts: 15,989 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    lukester wrote: »
    blorg, iirc, you can spin at rates that I would find uncomfortable. Did you find you had to maintain a very high cadence running a compact in races?
    No, not at all, and I have 12T as my smallest sprocket. The only time I ever felt I was spinning out was the descent of the Galibier once on to the main road in the Marmotte, it is not that steep and it is straight so you do have to pedal, and I was trying to keep up with some fast guys. Club racing certainly not. Barrabus reported there was ONE occasion where the bunch was going very fast on a flat run and he was spinning out on a compact. Not normally a problem though.

    Note that you will only learn to be comfortable with higher cadences by getting out there and forcing yourself into situations where you have to spin faster. Fixie downhill works but racing would be good too.


  • Options
    #94
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's a semi.
    Didn't realise it had a name. Bonus.
    blorg wrote: »
    No, not at all...not normally a problem.
    Good to know
    blorg wrote: »
    Note that you will only learn to be comfortable with higher cadences by getting out there and forcing yourself into situations where you have to spin faster. Fixie downhill works but racing would be good too.
    Pretty comfortable at very high cadence for short bursts, just wondered if at race pace you'd spin out too easily with a compact.

    Downhill fixie is the preserve of thrill seekers like yourself. Not my bag.


  • Options
    #95
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    So this was supposed to be a recovery week, which I was hoping to fill with cross training and stretchy stuff.

    However, bad planning and poor motivation resulted in a week of work, rest and beer, culminating in me turning up to the sports centre tonight to find it closed (the second time this week I've got the opening hours wrong).

    So I decided to punish myself with a Threshold Test. The protocol is well documented in Training and Racing with a Power Meter:

    - 20 min @ endurance pace, to warm up.
    - 3x1 min fast pedalling alternated with 1 min recovery. (I lost count and did 4)
    - 5 minutes flat out, to "empty the legs".
    - 10 min @ endurance pace, to question your sanity.
    - 20 minutes @ "threshold".

    I paced the 5 minutes flat out too slow, and ramped up a bit at the end to average 280W. This felt great.

    I spent the next 10 minutes thinking of a wattage number of hit for the threshold interval. I figured that my estimated FTP/CP60 (250W) was too low for only 20 minutes, so I should pick 105% of this to make things a bit tougher, which is about 265W.

    The first five minutes of the threshold interval were OK. I bounced around between 245W and 280W, mumbling along to Run (thanks whoever posted that). My HR rose to about 172bpm (significantly higher than my 40k TT average).

    Then Chicane came on and the dark thoughts started, and I wanted to get off. So I did, at a little under 7 minutes. It seemed a great decision at the time - I'd gone too hard and I was struggling to sustain the power, so feck it. Now I just feel pathetic.

    I think the "leg emptier" interval means that I don't need to push so hard in the threshold interval. Either than or my autumn of injury and idleness has left me in even worse state than I thought.

    Anyway, chin up - January is a great time to make mistakes, and it's nothing a few more weeks of tempo won't fix.

    I will be faster.


  • Options
    #96
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Lumen wrote: »
    So I decided to punish myself with a Threshold Test. The protocol is well documented in Training and Racing with a Power Meter:
    New Edition due out in April


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    #97
    short circuit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭short circuit


    lukester wrote: »
    Was pondering this which offers a fullish range at both bottom and top.

    Having read that, it seems every article on gear choice is tailored for racers. I have a 34-27 as my lowest and even with that on long hilly spins, I long for lower gears if climbing at the end of the day. And this is just hills in Wicklow and in and around 125 - 150kms.

    I need to HTFU a lot. The days of just going out for a spin to enjoy seem to be out.


  • Options
    #98
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    @Short fully agree on the sentiments. Its seems that many in this site have goals ranging from racing to crazy endurance/audax events. The days of casual spins are becoming a thing of the past.
    It is now allow about willingness to suffer. Enjoyment is gone to be replaced from the strange sense of satisfaction that pain cold and desolation brings.
    ;-)


  • Options
    #99
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    ROK ON wrote: »
    @Short fully agree on the sentiments. Its seems that many in this site have goals ranging from racing to crazy endurance/audax events. The days of casual spins are becoming a thing of the past.
    It is now allow about willingness to suffer. Enjoyment is gone to be replaced from the strange sense of satisfaction that pain cold and desolation brings.
    ;-)

    Gentlemen, we are becoming real bike riders ;)


  • Options
    #100
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Raam wrote: »
    Gentlemen, we are becoming real bike riders ;)

    Will you admit to having done one of these threshold tests, or would that conflict with your sandbagging strategy? A little birdie told me you have a new indoor trainer with power measurement. :)


  • Options
    #101
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Lumen wrote: »
    Will you admit to having done one of these threshold tests, or would that conflict with your sandbagging strategy? A little birdie told me you have a new indoor trainer with power measurement. :)

    I never sandbag! No wait, that's wrong...

    Yeah we have the turbo, but I'm waiting until I have been infection/cough/snot free for a month before I attempt a threshold test.


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    #102
    rottenhat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭rottenhat


    ROK ON wrote: »
    Enjoyment is gone to be replaced from the strange sense of satisfaction that pain cold and desolation brings.
    ;-)

    ...and the dizzying highs offered by sleep deprivation and total physical exhaustion.


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    #103
    hynesie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭hynesie


    Raam wrote: »
    Yeah we have the turbo, but I'm waiting until I have been infection/cough/snot free for a month before I attempt a threshold test.
    What turbo did you go for?
    I've been looking at the Tacx Flow but I've found that some people have calibration issues with after a while, i.e. the power readings go a good bit off after a couple of months.


  • Options
    #104
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    hynesie wrote: »
    What turbo did you go for?
    I've been looking at the Tacx Flow but I've found that some people have calibration issues with after a while, i.e. the power readings go a good bit off after a couple of months.

    This one
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9756


  • Options
    #105
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    One more thought on power measurement now that the pain has fully ebbed away...

    There appears to be some disagreement in the sports geek community about what constitutes "threshold". A common acronym is "OBLA" (onset of blood lactate accumulation), which is the point at which your blood fills with pain. Unfortunately it appears that different cyclists have different lactate tolerances, so commonly used thesholds (e.g. 4mmol/L) are not universally indicative of maximal aerobic endurance performance.

    Therefore FTP ("functional threshold power"), the average power you can sustain for an hour (also called CP60), has been widely adopted as an empirical test of useful aerobic performance.

    From my own experiences, however, CP60 (and certainly shorter period power) is quite dependent on position. Taking the idea that aerobic performance is limited by muscle demands and not oxygen supply, all that matters is how hard you can work your muscles on the bike. In terms of power production: out of the saddle > top > hoods > drops > aerobars, and varying position allows different muscle groups to recover.

    This means that it is much easier to hit bigger numbers on a 20 minute hillclimb than 20 minute TT, because on a hill you can hop in and out of the saddle, activating different muscle groups without suffering significant aero loss. Arguments about whether climbing seated or standing is more "efficient" are only relevant if you're doing an event which is long enough for efficiency to matter.

    Which makes analysis of historical power files a bit tricky. My biggest numbers (e.g. 300W for 10 minutes) have been on hills. Trying to replicate the same whilst seated on a static trainer is futile. Testing is specific.


  • Options
    #106
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Raam wrote: »
    This one
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9756

    Was it as hard to assemble as internet reviews say?


  • Options
    #107
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    lukester wrote: »
    Was it as hard to assemble as internet reviews say?

    If one was a clueless idiot, yes.
    Otherwise, simple.


  • Options
    #108
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Raam wrote: »
    If one was a clueless idiot, yes.

    's funny, I didn't think there were many clueless idiots on the internet.


  • Options
    #109
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    lukester wrote: »
    's funny, I didn't think there were many clueless idiots on the internet.

    I put my engineering degree to good use.


  • Options
    #110
    hynesie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭hynesie


    Raam wrote: »
    I put my engineering degree to good use.

    Any other comments on it?


    sorry for hijacking your thread Lumen .... maybe you should merge the entire cycling forum into this thread :p


  • Options
    #111
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Raam wrote: »
    I put my engineering degree to good use.

    I bought some Tacx kit, and indeed the instructions were useless, but anyone above Forrest Gump's intelligence would have no problem with the assembly.


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  • Options
    #112
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    hynesie wrote: »
    sorry for hijacking your thread Lumen .... maybe you should merge the entire cycling forum into this thread :p

    LOL, it makes me feel a little embarrassed but I don't mind, honestly :)


  • Options
    #113
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    hynesie wrote: »
    Any other comments on it?


    sorry for hijacking your thread Lumen .... maybe you should merge the entire cycling forum into this thread :p

    I haven't used it much yet to get enough of an impression.


  • Options
    #114
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Raam wrote: »
    I haven't used it much yet to get enough of an impression.

    Sandbagger.


  • Options
    #115
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    lukester wrote: »
    Sandbagger.

    Alas, this time it's true.


  • Options
    #116
    lukester
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭lukester


    Raam wrote: »
    Alas, this time it's true.

    Sure it is. :pac:

    Interested to hear how it works out though, wondering if having the power measurements and other info make it any more enticing to get on than other turbos. Cheaper than a power meter for sure.

    @Lumen I feel bad for thread-jacking, but then this is a cosy extra geeky corner of boards. You should feel proud.


  • Options
    #117
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Lumen wrote: »
    One more thought on power measurement now that the pain has fully ebbed away...

    There appears to be some disagreement in the sports geek community about what constitutes "threshold". A common acronym is "OBLA" (onset of blood lactate accumulation), which is the point at which your blood fills with pain. Unfortunately it appears that different cyclists have different lactate tolerances, so commonly used thesholds (e.g. 4mmol/L) are not universally indicative of maximal aerobic endurance performance.

    Therefore FTP ("functional threshold power"), the average power you can sustain for an hour (also called CP60), has been widely adopted as an empirical test of useful aerobic performance.

    From my own experiences, however, CP60 (and certainly shorter period power) is quite dependent on position. Taking the idea that aerobic performance is limited by muscle demands and not oxygen supply, all that matters is how hard you can work your muscles on the bike. In terms of power production: out of the saddle > top > hoods > drops > aerobars, and varying position allows different muscle groups to recover.

    This means that it is much easier to hit bigger numbers on a 20 minute hillclimb than 20 minute TT, because on a hill you can hop in and out of the saddle, activating different muscle groups without suffering significant aero loss. Arguments about whether climbing seated or standing is more "efficient" are only relevant if you're doing an event which is long enough for efficiency to matter.

    Which makes analysis of historical power files a bit tricky. My biggest numbers (e.g. 300W for 10 minutes) have been on hills. Trying to replicate the same whilst seated on a static trainer is futile. Testing is specific.

    Have you done a 30 minute test on the TT bike in position on the trainer? Seems like this would be the best way to work out your FTP for the races(TT) you are planning on doing.


  • Options
    #118
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Have you done a 30 minute test on the TT bike in position on the trainer? Seems like this would be the best way to work out your FTP for the races(TT) you are planning on doing.

    Not yet. I've been hiding from my TT bike for two weeks now. Hamstring tightness is a real problem.

    Better get back on it this week, as I have a duathlon on Sunday (if it ever goes ahead).


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    #119
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    I went to enter race 2 yesterday and saw it was sold out :( ohwell. How do you find the stealth? I am kinda thinking about buying a frame and swapping parts over.


  • Options
    #120
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    mloc123 wrote: »
    I went to enter race 2 yesterday and saw it was sold out :( ohwell.

    It seems they've shortened the newbie race to a ridiculous degree. 8.6km is a bit of a silly distance for a full TT rig. I might try and get bumped to the proper race.
    mloc123 wrote: »
    How do you find the stealth? I am kinda thinking about buying a frame and swapping parts over.

    No complaints, although it's only seen turbo duty so far. There are prettier options out there, but not at the price. I'm sure its potential greatly exceeds my abilities, which is just how I like it.


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    #121
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Lumen wrote: »
    It seems they've shortened the newbie race to a ridiculous degree. 8.6km is a bit of a silly distance for a full TT rig. I might try and get bumped to the proper race.



    No complaints, although it's only seen turbo duty so far. There are prettier options out there, but not at the price. I'm sure its potential greatly exceeds my abilities, which is just how I like it.

    Are you in the newbie race? My understanding was it was the same as the normal one but n00b friendly... now it looks more like a try-a-duathlon


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