Are you all pleased with your solar panels for hot water heating

Qualitymark · 01-02-2016 3:52pm

I was asking a friend about his solar panels and he was very very happy with them. Said he'd give me the name of the company, who'd been efficient and fast and did a great job installing.
Then I didn't hear from him for a while. Ran into him, and he said "I know I said I'd get back to you about that company, but my feelings about them have changed. I had a problem, called them, they came to fix it, then it broke down again a couple of days after they'd gone. Now I can't get hold of them. They're not answering calls or texts or emails."
One company that won't be getting me - or any other friend, acquaintance or customer of my friend - as a customer. What are they, idiots?

freddyuk · 01-02-2016 4:20pm

Plenty of new blood so they not interested in fixing the poor installations already paid for.
For a major brand name with "contracted installers" to recommend 100litres per 10 tubes is all about undersizing so their inefficiencies are not quickly obvious. The installers are not allowed to mess with the system supplied or they will lose their lucrative contract so they install poor systems; poorly. Of course there is a warranty but good luck with that.
What you want is to collect as much solar as you can when it is there and store it. To do that you need a bigger cylinder and hotter water. Legally you are not allowed to install very hot water to save you from scalding however by fitting a Thermostatic mixing valve the water is safe at the taps. Then by fitting a bypass the solar system is protected against overheating when you are away. So it is all very simple to control a system and make it last years but it does not happen unless you arrange a decent installer not contracted to a major supplier.
A TMV is about €75 and a bypass kit about €150. Fitting is much easier at time of installation but retro fitting is simple too.
If you store very hot water you may have scaling issues so check your water supply.

freddyuk · 01-02-2016 4:20pm

Plenty of new blood so they not interested in fixing the poor installations already paid for.
For a major brand name with "contracted installers" to recommend 100litres per 10 tubes is all about undersizing so their inefficiencies are not quickly obvious. The installers are not allowed to mess with the system supplied or they will lose their lucrative contract so they install poor systems; poorly. Of course there is a warranty but good luck with that.
What you want is to collect as much solar as you can when it is there and store it. To do that you need a bigger cylinder and hotter water. Legally you are not allowed to install very hot water to save you from scalding however by fitting a Thermostatic mixing valve the water is safe at the taps. Then by fitting a bypass the solar system is protected against overheating when you are away. So it is all very simple to control a system and make it last years but it does not happen unless you arrange a decent installer not contracted to a major supplier.
A TMV is about €75 and a bypass kit about €150. Fitting is much easier at time of installation but retro fitting is simple too.
If you store very hot water you may have scaling issues so check your water supply.

rolion · 02-02-2016 12:27pm

HiFreddy.

So you are saying tat I should ignore the spplier's recommendation and /r industry standards and just follow the practical aspects of the solution !?

I will be very worried I I over size the sytem to accommodate me in the cold day of the winter AND to creatmajor troubles in theHOT days of the summer,for which I have to invest something to "dump" free generated hot water.
I meant,here im I supposed t install the dumping unit / radiator,for usage in te summer !?

Can you clarify,please.
Thanks.

rolion · 02-02-2016 12:27pm

Hi Freddy.

So you are saying that I should ignore the supplier's recommendation and /or industry standards and just follow the practical aspects of the solution !?

I will be very worried if I over sized the sytem to accommodate me in the cold day of the winter AND to create major troubles in the HOT days of the summer,for which I have to invest something to "dump" free generated hot water.
I meant,where im I supposed to install the dumping unit / radiator,for usage in the summer !?

Can you clarify,please.
Thanks.

02-02-2016 12:51pm

This is where I say Solar PV is far more practical, you can use the electricity to heat water , run the house and I think this year there will be a feed-in-tariff to sell the excess.

josip · 02-02-2016 2:36pm

rolion wrote: »

Hi Freddy.

So you are saying tat I should ignore the supplier's recommendation and /or industry standards and just follow the practical aspects of the solution !?

I will be very worried if I over sized the sytem to accommodate me in the cold day of the winter AND to create major troubles in the HOT days of the summer,for which I have to invest something to "dump" free generated hot water.
I meant,where im I supposed to install the dumping unit / radiator,for usage in the summer !?

Can you clarify,please.
Thanks.

The name heat dump doesn't do it any favours but you must understand that this dump is protecting you overall system.
If your cylinder reaches max temp, you're not going to be capturing any of that extra energy anyway, it will just be superheating your fluid and reducing its life expectancy.
Most dumps that I've heard of are a radiator installed in the attic space.

championc · 02-02-2016 10:56pm

Hi @rolion,

I have 30 Kingspan tubes into 180 litre store. The only main difference I might have to other people is that I have a combined boiler and so I don't heat my water any other way other than via solar, and the incoming water comes straight off the rising main so it's quite cold.

I have only twice maxed out the system. I'd need about 3 or 4 days of continuous stone splitting sunshine to Max it out. I would expect others to be the same.

josip · 04-02-2016 12:32am

championc wrote: »

Hi @rolion,

I have 30 Kingspan tubes into 180 litre store. The only main difference I might have to other people is that I have a combined boiler and so I don't heat my water any other way other than via solar, and the incoming water comes straight off the rising main so it's quite cold.

I have only twice maxed out the system. I'd need about 3 or 4 days of continuous stone splitting sunshine to Max it out. I would expect others to be the same.

Are they due south facing champion? If so, what angle are they at?
Our 36 are dues south at an angel of 35 degrees (off horizontal)
Our 250l cylinder is set to 70C
During the summer it would mac out on the 2nd of 2 consecutive good days if it stared from a base of 21/22C at both bottom and mid point int he cylinder.

championc · 04-02-2016 7:51pm

Yes, absolutely due south at around 23 deg slope. However, once they get sunshine, they produce much the same amount of heat throughout the day, so the slope angle doesn't hugely come into play. My system gains 1 deg about every 10 mins. So yes, I think I can match your gains alright. I log my system, by the minute, to Xively. Not only could I validate how well it worked, John Carroll did too, so it was great to get feedback from an expert

Data logging is king. It takes away all guesswork and dismisses bullsh1tters

josip · 04-11-2016 7:15pm

Good year so far.
No maintenance required.
Normally I get start of March to end of October solely on solar but have to start blipping the gas boiler from Halloween on.
Haven't had to do this yet this year.
€300-€350 estimated savings with abundant hot water from April - Sep.
Today got the 250l up to 49C.
Happy days.

unkel · 29-11-2016 1:36pm

Install last week. Pretty impressed so far. 40 tube system from a well known Irish manufacturer :pac:
25 year warranty

360l slimline stainless steel cylinder (biggest that would fit in the hotpress)

Even on a very cold winters day like today that started with scraping the car windows. Outside temp is 5C now, tubes are 46C (sun shining) and they've already warmed up the water in my cylinder from 13C to 32C this morning with plenty of sunshine left in the day

josip · 29-11-2016 2:23pm

unkel wrote: »

Install last week. Pretty impressed so far. 40 tube system from a well known Irish manufacturer :pac:
25 year warranty

360l slimline stainless steel cylinder (biggest that would fit in the hotpress)

Even on a very cold winters day like today that started with scraping the car windows. Outside temp is 5C now, tubes are 46C (sun shining) and they've already warmed up the water in my cylinder from 13C to 32C this morning with plenty of sunshine left in the day

Sounds like your 40 tubes have a good aspect and angle.
Do you have a heat dump solution/strategy for the summer?

unkel · 30-11-2016 12:16am

Aspect: 100% south
Angle: dunno, but typical early 00s semi-d house, so I guess about a 25 degree slope?

You don't need a heat dump with the Kingspan Thermomax tubes. They "cut out" at 95C so your cylinder can never go over 95C so it won't explode. That's what they were designed for, so hopefully it works

I know Kingspan specify 10 tubes per 100l of cylinder, so I am a bit oversized, but only by a tiny margin.

josip · 30-11-2016 12:28am

The heat dump is more to protect the tubes, the fluid and the pump I think.
I don't have one and on a good summer day once the cylinder hits max, the fluid will stop circulating.
I've seen 220C at the tubes and early on the pump had to be replaced due to the excessive heat.
Overheating of the fluid will shorten its lifespan as far as I know.
I've heard of others dumping excess heat via a rad in the attic but am not sure exactly how that works.

unkel · 30-11-2016 12:51am

Tubes themselves don't go over 95C (or was it 135C - can't remember), it's the Thermomax system. The heat dissipates through an emitter at the tubes.

So the fluid doesn't go over those temps either. And the fluid doesn't deteriorate at those temps, it will need to be closer to 180-200C to start shortening its lifespan

And the system is installed by an authorised Kingspan installer. Comes with a 25 year warranty. So I'm not worried

unkel · 30-11-2016 1:37am

I just came upon your post in this thread from 2 years ago:

josip wrote: »

Ah, but that changes everything.
In your first post you said 2 toddlers but now we find out they're both girls
In my limited experience, hot water consumption for females is higher than for males and this will halve shorten your payback timeframe.

I've 3 girls myself. None of them teenagers but in 4.5 years from now, all 3 will be teenagers

I have a pumped shower (2 bar Stuart pump) and the original 120l cylinder in the house was only good for 1 shower of 10 minutes. Which is ridiculous in a 5 people family. So I needed a 300l / 360l cylinder anyway. I got a good deal on my installation and I reckon the extra cost of the solar (minus the subsidy) will be paid back in not much more than 5 years. Even though I have a 98% efficient Viessmann gas boiler

We like our showers / baths, so we do

893bet · 25-03-2017 3:21pm

What temperature is normal at the collector?

championc · 25-03-2017 5:46pm

893bet wrote:

What temperature is normal at the collector?

It will always be about 8 deg above the temperature of the store. I know you were possibly hoping for someone to tell you the temperature today but again, that would be very inexact since someone could say that it's 80 deg when it started at 60 deg, while mine is 50 deg because it started at 25 deg.

Then it also goes down to the number of tubes, and the side of the store.

893bet · 25-03-2017 6:22pm

championc wrote: »

It will always be about 8 deg above the temperature of the store. I know you were possibly hoping for someone to tell you the temperature today but again, that would be very inexact since someone could say that it's 80 deg when it started at 60 deg, while mine is 50 deg because it started at 25 deg.

Then it also goes down to the number of tubes, and the side of the store.

Mine is a lot higher! Earlier the collector was at 160. Bottom of tank at 50 and top of the tank at 60. Big solar, 50 tube with 400l tank.

I put the pump into manual mode and it dropped immediately them when it circulated. When in auto mode the pump doesn't seem to kick in. Doesn't make sense to just leave the pump on running?

championc · 26-03-2017 12:02am

So you've got a serious problem with your setup or wiring.

I am assuming that most systems are pretty much identical. When the roof temp is about 8 deg higher than the bottom of the store, the pump should kick in automatically until it's only about 4 deg higher. If run much longer, it has the possibility of sending cooler water back to the store as the pump over runs the sensor.

The only other possibility here is that your top of store is set to 60 and therefore, the system has locked out. If you have an imerson or a central heating bypass fitted through the store, then i would nearly expect your system never to be much lower than 60 in the first place, meaning the system is pointless.

So what is the cutoff temperature ?

893bet · 26-03-2017 10:01pm

championc wrote: »

So you've got a serious problem with your setup or wiring.

I am assuming that most systems are pretty much identical. When the roof temp is about 8 deg higher than the bottom of the store, the pump should kick in automatically until it's only about 4 deg higher. If run much longer, it has the possibility of sending cooler water back to the store as the pump over runs the sensor.

The only other possibility here is that your top of store is set to 60 and therefore, the system has locked out. If you have an imerson or a central heating bypass fitted through the store, then i would nearly expect your system never to be much lower than 60 in the first place, meaning the system is pointless.

So what is the cutoff temperature ?

Had a play with the controller and think it's working correctly now. Pump kicking in and out. Tank at 68degrees!

metricspaces · 18-04-2017 1:04pm

josip wrote: »

Good year so far.
No maintenance required.
Normally I get start of March to end of October solely on solar but have to start blipping the gas boiler from Halloween on.
Haven't had to do this yet this year.
â‚¬300-â‚¬350 estimated savings with abundant hot water from April - Sep.
Today got the 250l up to 49C.
Happy days.

300e saving, is about 5,357 kWh of energy when using gas (at 0.056 per kWh). What is your setup that generates this much energy and what did it cost to install?

josip · 18-04-2017 1:43pm

metricspaces wrote: »

300e saving, is about 5,357 kWh of energy when using gas (at 0.056 per kWh). What is your setup that generates this much energy and what did it cost to install?

30 Chinese tubes on a 36 degree roof 5 degrees west of due south.
1 Chinese controller.
1 Kingspan 250l steel solar cylinder with foamy stuff.
The tubes and controller were â‚¬3,300 net of SEAI grant to install.
The cylinder was an additional â‚¬1,100 I think.

The main consumers are a pumped shower for a 3 person household and a fairly long pipe run to the kitchen hot tap.

metricspaces · 18-04-2017 2:47pm

josip wrote: »

30 Chinese tubes on a 36 degree roof 5 degrees west of due south.
1 Chinese controller.
1 Kingspan 250l steel solar cylinder with foamy stuff.
The tubes and controller were â‚¬3,300 net of SEAI grant to install.
The cylinder was an additional â‚¬1,100 I think.

The main consumers are a pumped shower for a 3 person household and a fairly long pipe run to the kitchen hot tap.

Thanks! It's interesting to see the figures here. I'd really like to get my hot water from solar. So real figures are great to see.

If I am working out the numbers correctly, it will take 14.6 years to see a return on your investment of 4,400e with 300e saving a year?

quentingargan · 18-04-2017 2:55pm

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks! It's interesting to see the figures here. I'd really like to get my hot water from solar. So real figures are great to see.

If I am working out the numbers correctly, it will take 14.6 years to see a return on your investment of 4,400e with 300e saving a year?

A 30 tube system will produce about 1800kwhrs per year. That hot water from oil or gas would have cost about â‚¬162 per year. Maintenance (changing glycol) will be at least â‚¬200 every 3 years. So savings nett about â‚¬100 per year.

Don't get me wrong - I have tubes, solar PV, wind and hydro. All of them have a very long payback. PV is probably the shortest of the four. I did this because it give me some satisfaction to lie in a hot bath knowing that the energy for this came from the sun, and not oil from a well in Saudi that would be better left alone.

josip · 18-04-2017 2:59pm

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks! It's interesting to see the figures here. I'd really like to get my hot water from solar. So real figures are great to see.

If I am working out the numbers correctly, it will take 14.6 years to see a return on your investment of 4,400e with 300e saving a year?

I don't expect to ever see a return on the investment to be honest.

Every few years the fluid will need to be replaced and that one callout for the plumber will wipe out most of the savings for that year.
I doubt if the pump will last 15 years.
The tubes are rated for 20 years on average but they'll probably start to fail individually from year 10 onwards if they haven't already, reducing the efficiency of the system in the critical Oct-Mar months.

If I was installing it now, I'd give more consideration to PV, but 7 years ago PV technology performed relatively poorly in Ireland compared to the evac tubes.

I installed it so that I no longer wince and nag when certain family members brush their teeth in warm water with the tap running full or 'rinse' off the plates in the sink with fire-fighter levels of pressure from the hot tap.

Seriously, it's very hard to put a price on the peace and harmony those solar tubes have brought to our house.

wexfordman2 · 18-04-2017 3:00pm

quentingargan wrote: »

A 30 tube system will produce about 1800kwhrs per year. That hot water from oil or gas would have cost about â‚¬162 per year. Maintenance (changing glycol) will be at least â‚¬200 every 3 years. So savings nett about â‚¬100 per year.

Don't get me wrong - I have tubes, solar PV, wind and hydro. All of them have a very long payback. PV is probably the shortest of the four. I did this because it give me some satisfaction to lie in a hot bath knowing that the energy for this came from the sun, and not oil from a well in Saudi that would be better left alone.

Sorry,.just.jumping.in here,.but is that pointing.to a forty year payback?

josip · 18-04-2017 3:19pm

quentingargan wrote: »

A 30 tube system will produce about 1800kwhrs per year. That hot water from oil or gas would have cost about â‚¬162 per year. Maintenance (changing glycol) will be at least â‚¬200 every 3 years. So savings nett about â‚¬100 per year.

I'm including the cyclinder cost in my RoI calculations.
Previously there was only a lagged copper cylinder and the gas cost of heating it was twice what you've calculated above.
Did you factor in any loss in that calculation?

quentingargan · 18-04-2017 3:20pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Sorry,.just.jumping.in here,.but is that pointing.to a forty year payback?

Some people calculate payback on the assumption that in summer the hot water is from an immersion at 18c daytime rate, and overlook the maintenance. In that case, the payback would be â‚¬220 per year, but otherwise, yes - I guess about 40 years.

quentingargan · 18-04-2017 3:23pm

josip wrote: »

I'm including the cyclinder cost in my RoV calculations.
Previously there was only a lagged copper cylinder and the gas cost of heating it was twice what you've calculated above.
Did you factor in any loss in that calculation?

No - you are quite right. The cylinder would make a big difference to lost energy and is well worth doing, but bear in mind that you can get a well lagged single coil immersion for a lot less than a solar cylinder. These figures are all very ballpark. Some people use very little hot water, some families have two baths a night.

metricspaces · 19-04-2017 7:18am

If 93% of people in the pole for this thread are happy with their solar panels for hot water heating, does this mean they are happy with them on some criteria other than economic value?

It seems you need to wait 15-40 years to break even, and that is assuming your system does not break at any point and operates at constant level of efficiency for entire period.

Is there any system you can install for hot water heating that would see a return in the 5-10 year time frame?

listermint · 19-04-2017 7:30am

metricspaces wrote: »

If 93% of people in the pole for this thread are happy with their solar panels for hot water heating, does this mean they are happy with them on some criteria other than economic value?

It seems you need to wait 15-40 years to break even, and that is assuming your system does not break at any point and operates at constant level of efficiency for entire period.

Is there any system you can install for hot water heating that would see a return in the 5-10 year time frame?

People all to often rely on the Economics.

If we always relied on the Economics then we would not take holidays for example. We take them to take the stress out of life and for a good feeling.

I imagine not having to worry about an extraordinary gas bill or oil bill dropping on the door step is nice. His install cost the same as a good holiday.

metricspaces · 19-04-2017 7:41am

listermint wrote: »

People all to often rely on the Economics.

If we always relied on the Economics then we would not take holidays for example. We take them to take the stress out of life and for a good feeling.

I imagine not having to worry about an extraordinary gas bill or oil bill dropping on the door step is nice. His install cost the same as a good holiday.

If the rationale for being happy with the system is something other than economic, then the pole makes sense.

For the vast majority of people economic criteria is going to be the main driver in purchase like this - not saving the planet or feeling good. As a consumer, I can't say it is immediately obvious if any of the solar systems are economically viable for your average household.

The initial impression I get from the industry is "install this system and in a few years it will have paid for itself". This seems very far from reality.

listermint · 19-04-2017 7:45am

metricspaces wrote: »

If the rationale for being happy with the system is something other than economic, then the pole makes sense.

For the vast majority of people economic criteria is going to be the main driver in purchase like this - not saving the planet or feeling good. As a consumer, I can't say it is immediately obvious if any of the solar systems are economically viable for your average household.

The initial impression I get from the industry is "install this system and in a few years it will have paid for itself". This seems very far from reality.

When i put PV into my next house purchase the rational will not be economical. It will be totally driven by self sufficiency and smugness of my ESB bills. The feel good factor of zero concern for leaving powered units on or forgetting to turn something off because the big ball in the sky is looking after it.

Il skip a years holiday for that satisfaction with no problems.

Imagine running a family car for free as in zero bar tax and insurance....

sReq | uTeK · 19-04-2017 8:02am

Hi all we recently moved house which has a conergy R 2000 system. Does anyone know someone good and affordable that is able to service?

josip · 19-04-2017 9:19am

metricspaces wrote: »

...The initial impression I get from the industry is "install this system and in a few years it will have paid for itself". This seems very far from reality.

Do any of us believe the salesmen and evangelism from any industry, not just solar heating?

I think the larger your family, the faster you will break even if that's wwhat's important for you.
A 5 year break even would be doable with a family of 10/11 I'd say. And a 1500l tank. With 180 tubes to heat that. On top of the 400sqm house.

unkel · 19-04-2017 1:12pm

josip wrote: »

30 Chinese tubes on a 36 degree roof 5 degrees west of due south.
1 Chinese controller.
1 Kingspan 250l steel solar cylinder with foamy stuff.
The tubes and controller were â‚¬3,300 net of SEAI grant to install.
The cylinder was an additional â‚¬1,100 I think.

The main consumers are a pumped shower for a 3 person household and a fairly long pipe run to the kitchen hot tap.

My 40 Irish tube Kingspan + Kingspan controller + highly insulated 360l stainless steel cylinder was only a few hundred more than yours

We needed the cylinder anyway as we only had a poorly insulated 120l copper cylinder and we have a household of 5 (4 women) and we use a lot of hot water
(2 bar pumped shower and bath)

Payback on the rest of the system (net of 360l cylinder) is somewhere in the 7 - 10 year range for us. And replacing the glycol every 3 years is completely unnecessary when the temp of the glycol never exceeds 135C

josip · 19-04-2017 2:55pm

unkel wrote: »

My 40 Irish tube Kingspan + Kingspan controller + highly insulated 360l stainless steel cylinder was only a few hundred more than yours

We needed the cylinder anyway as we only had a poorly insulated 120l copper cylinder and we have a household of 5 (4 women) and we use a lot of hot water
(2 bar pumped shower and bath)

Payback on the rest of the system (net of 360l cylinder) is somewhere in the 7 - 10 year range for us. And replacing the glycol every 3 years is completely unnecessary when the temp of the glycol never exceeds 135C

It's good to see that the Kingspan tubes and controller have become a lot more cost effective than they were in 2010.

championc · 19-04-2017 4:25pm

unkel wrote:

And replacing the glycol every 3 years is completely unnecessary when the temp of the glycol never exceeds 135C

On this basis, if it never goes over 100C, does it ever need replacement at all ?

rolion · 20-04-2017 2:28pm

championc wrote: »

On this basis, if it never goes over 100C, does it ever need replacement at all ?

I advise,non profesional,to replace it once every few years to get the best results, as i guess is losing the chemical properties of the liquid.

If an analogy is permitted, same with the car oil engine :after a while it gets "dirty", replace it and the engine runs smoother.

josip · 20-04-2017 3:35pm

rolion wrote: »

I advise,non profesional,to replace it once every few years to get the best results, as i guess is losing the chemical properties of the liquid.

If an analogy is permitted, same with the car oil engine :after a while it gets "dirty", replace it and the engine runs smoother.

Is the oil analogy correct?
Wouldn't the car water/coolant be a better analogy than oil?

unkel · 25-04-2017 10:16pm

josip wrote: »

Is the oil analogy correct?
Wouldn't the car water/coolant be a better analogy than oil?

I'd say so. And coolant in a car has to do a lot more work than the coolant in a solar tube system that can not go over 135C. Recommended replacement for coolant in a car is 3 years alright. I'll ask my Kingspan certified installers when I get a chance, to see what is the official recommendation.

Shefwedfan · 25-01-2018 9:13pm

I guess we cannot ask for company recommendation on this thread or any thread on boards?

beertons · 25-01-2018 9:42pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I guess we cannot ask for company recommendation on this thread or any thread on boards?

That depends. What exactly are you looking for?

Shefwedfan · 25-01-2018 10:23pm

beertons wrote: »

That depends. What exactly are you looking for?

Solar Thermal installation companies. I wont be doing a solo job.

I did try a few companies but would be unsure if any good

unkel · 26-01-2018 10:26am

Mine was done by AEI

Linky

They are a Kingspan accredited installer. They did a very clean and professional job, working around a few issues in my install and sorting them pro-actively (without charging more than agreed upfront). I recommend them.

rolion · 27-01-2018 1:50pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I guess we cannot ask for company recommendation on this thread or any thread on boards?

My friendly advice is first to get used and then apply for the SEAI grant.
During the application, you will need to chose an accredited installer that has the company listed on the SEAI database.

From there, you can buy the system yourself from any DIY building shops or ask the installer to do all the install themselves.

I can recommend my installer via PM.

Search for three quotes that are local to you and ask for references .

Good luck...

NIMAN · 04-02-2021 3:07am

I got to thinking about a solar hot water system recently, and got an estimate of just over €5k from AEI on the link Unkel provided above.
Does that sound like a reasonable figure?

Info:
House SSE facing
Family of 5
Built 2001

Is there any costs afterwards that I'd need to consider? I see replacement anti-freeze mentioned every 2-3yrs, how much does that cost?

How long will the system last? Will it still be heating as much water in say 20yrs time?

John.G · 04-02-2021 9:02am

Can you give a rough scope of your proposed installation, tubes/panels, number of tubes/make, panel size.... M2 etc.

Are you all pleased with your solar panels for hot water heating

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