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History on the Farm
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John Hutton wrote: »A 6th century stone church in Ireland is remarkable indeed, any photos?
It was established 6th century.Think its partly 7th century and partly 10th century building.
According to what I have read it was destroyed by Viking raiders in late 9th century and rebuilt.
Two very distinct parts to it.
Picture below was taken yesterday morning by nephew's drone.
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Excellent, wonderful photo.paddysdream wrote: »It was established 6th century.Think its partly 7th century and partly 10th century building.
According to what I have read it was destroyed by Viking raiders in late 9th century and rebuilt.
Two very distinct parts to it.
Picture below was taken yesterday morning by nephew's drone.
Your church is most definitely early medieval and pre-Norman. A sure sign of this is that the walls protrude a little beyond the gable, you can see this on the west gable in your picture. These are called antae and would have supported the roof timbers ahead of the gables so there would have probably been a small overhang type thing with the roof. This, and a linteled door in the west gable are tell tale signs that it is early medieval. (If the doors are in the side walls of the church it suggests it is late medieval). The fact that the church is undivided (a simple rectangle, there's not a clear separate nave and chancel) also suggests it is early medieval (although some late medieval are like this too, but will not have a antae or lintelled doors in the gable). Also, the fact that it is built very neatly, "smoothly" and carefully also suggests it is very old. This gable is probably from the 800s/900s AD.
The church is roughly about 3 times as long as it is wide, the east gable is an extension, the church would have been twice as long as wide originally. Can't tell clearly from the photograph but the stonework for the east extension and gable is much "rougher". This bit dates from the 1000/1100s AD probably.
I live no where near it and have never seen it myself but I'm 99% sure I recognise that church (ecclesiastical history and architecture is a hobby of mine
). I won't go into any details that would easily identify where you live, but I know a little about the site. You are fairly bang on with the dates and we can be sure of a foundation in the 500s (documented evidence for it being a flourishing community by 590AD) and that the Vikings (in league with some natives it seems!) attacked it in 864AD or so. This means that it was obviously a place rich enough to be worth raiding. The remains now probably date from the rebuild, the earlier church could have been wooden or "rebuilt" into the current remains.
More than likely a saint is or was buried there, most monasteries had relics from a saint, or their founder buried there. It's not totally clear who founded your monastery (because its so early! Remember Patrick only arrived in Ireland in 432AD) but there definitely is a very holy 6th Century Bishop buried there, there's good written evidence of this. On a sadder note, its very probable unbaptised children were buried there up until recent times. The monastery probably fell out of use around 1300AD.
You are sitting on a treasure trove of archaeology (I'm very jealous!) a good deal of which will remain. The Monastery was much larger than the current small enclosed area, it would have been a whole complex. The nearby stream would have been used to power a mill no doubt, there could be remains of that. If you have any old stone built outhouses or walls have a look at them and their stone, quite likely that they reused stone from monastery buildings.
The whole area of the monastery would have been surrounded (probably) by a big circular ditch. These earthworks, or some of them, may still be discernible, your nephew should have a look over the general area of the site with his drone from a good height, he might be able to sport a section of it, or remains of the old field system (during a dry spell like the drought we had a few years ago).
Your monastery was part of Ireland's golden age - while the rest of Europe was collapsing and struggling in the depths of the dark ages monasteries like yours were springing up in Ireland as centers of learning, culture and religion. As far as history on a farm goes, I do not think you will be beat! Thanks so much for sharing, love it !2 -
paddysdream wrote: »
Hot water bottle here with stopper
looks like its in very good condition. I presume its an heirloom. Or a find?
I remember my grandmother telling us that they could get exceptionly hot being earthenware but they were better than modern central heating as they stayed warm for a very long time.0 -
Hot water bottle.
I remember as a childer Granny placing a similar type jar into the bed to warm it up. One of the best parts of staying with Granny and Grandad was falling asleep whilst watching the flames flicker from the open grate that was in every bedroompaddysdream wrote: »
Hot water bottle here with stopper
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I grew up in an old house which had no central heating. The bedrooms did have fireplaces but funnily enough never remember them been lit. We had beds with proper blankets and warm flannel sheets and hot water bottles when required. Never remember feeling cold. I dunno maybe as kids we're tougher then...
To this day I prefer a window open & a cold room when I'm sleeping than one too stuffy where I'd wake up too warm & sweating.
Think I was 8 when we got oil heating in, turf fire heated the house & water before that. Oddly enough, a large % of my cousins grew up with oil heating & they had/have asthma issues. Always wondered if that was coincidence or not.
We used to have the same old wool blankets as below & a duvet & hot water bottle going to bed in winter, same as you, never felt the cold til getting dressed in the morning!
Remember trying to get dressed under the covers some frosty mornings
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Base price wrote: »IMO there is nothing more comforting or sedate than drifting to sleep whilst glazing at the flames of a hearth fire
The old house on the farm here had a bellows to start the fire. As a kid I’d sit on a small homemade wooden stool dying for a turn with it to get the fire going, aparantly I was too keen and vigorous with risk of burning the house down. It’s still there and I light a fire there regular enough.0 -
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I grew up in an old house which had no central heating. The bedrooms did have fireplaces but funnily enough never remember them been lit. We had beds with proper blankets and warm flannel sheets and hot water bottles when required. Never remember feeling cold. I dunno maybe as kids we're tougher then...
The grandfathers place used to have a big old fireplace in the bedroom - I remember going to sleep on frosty nights in the winter where you could see your breath, and the shadow cast on the floor by the moonlight down the chimney...
You weren't cold as you had plenty blankets on, you couldn't hardly move in the bed with the weight... 0 -
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Lady Haywire wrote: »Often look at that & try to match up things long gone that my father remembered his father telling him about- ways over rivers, roads which were there & gone now.
My house is on the oldest map, here before the road which runs right beside my it (as in inches from my wall) The old road to the back street here came from the western side of the hill, no idea why they built one then running N/S but my ancestors cashed in on the 'frontage' & opened a shop with flour/tea etc.:D
Similar here. The very old roads are detailed in the 1778 Taylor & Skinner Ireland Road Map guide, contained in a single bound volume. It can be a little confusing to navigate but it shows old roads, towns, villages, bridges and big houses as they were back then. I think much of it is available online.
Quite a few of the roads around here were built long after the Taylor and Skinner guide. Some in the years leading up to the famine and then a whole load around the time of the famine.
Local Grand Jury (forerunners of Co. Councils) were empowered to raise money by means of county rates (also known as cess) to build new roads etc. The Grand Jury records of who built what roads and how the money was raised from landowners where new roads were being built or old ones repaired are available in local council archives afaik
Apparently its from these grand juries - that some wag coined the phrase 'ah sure it'll be grand' after some of the shenanigans and skullduggery that the various local grand juries got up. At least that was the usual joke about them ...
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Do you know how/why were some roads made follow field boundaries?Similar here. The very old roads are detailed in the 1778 Taylor & Skinner Ireland Road Map guide, contained in a single bound volume. It can be a little confusing to navigate but it shows old roads, towns, villages, bridges and big houses as they were back then. I think much of it is available online.
Quite a few of the roads around here were built long after the Taylor and Skinner guide. Some in the years leading up to the famine and then a whole load around the time of the famine.
Local Grand Jury (forerunners of Co. Councils) were empowered to raise money by means of county rates (also known as cess) to build new roads etc. The Grand Jury records of who built what roads and how the money was raised from landowners where new roads were being built or old ones repaired are available in local council archives afaik
Apparently its from these grand juries - that some wag coined the phrase 'ah sure it'll be grand' after some of the shenanigans and skullduggery that the various local grand juries got up. At least that was the usual joke about them ...
You'll see some by roads and they follow the outline of the existing fields. You'll see roads take 90 degree turns following the ditches.
Did those landowners put money towards the road and the landowners that didn't, the road ploughed straight through the middle?0 -
Similar here. The very old roads are detailed in the 1778 Taylor & Skinner Ireland Road Map guide, contained in a single bound volume. It can be a little confusing to navigate but it shows old roads, towns, villages, bridges and big houses as they were back then. I think much of it is available online.
Quite a few of the roads around here were built long after the Taylor and Skinner guide. Some in the years leading up to the famine and then a whole load around the time of the famine.
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https://ia801608.us.archive.org/0/items/TaylorSkinnerMapsOfTheRoadsOfIrelandSurveyed1777/310MapsOfTheRoadsOfIrelandSurv1777.pdf
It takes a while to download, but can be zoomed in on. (from Trinity College Library)0 -
This is the best site for Taylor and Skinner's map: https://www.swilson.info/tands1777.phpSimilar here. The very old roads are detailed in the 1778 Taylor & Skinner Ireland Road Map guide, contained in a single bound volume. It can be a little confusing to navigate but it shows old roads, towns, villages, bridges and big houses as they were back then. I think much of it is available online.
Quite a few of the roads around here were built long after the Taylor and Skinner guide. Some in the years leading up to the famine and then a whole load around the time of the famine.
Local Grand Jury (forerunners of Co. Councils) were empowered to raise money by means of county rates (also known as cess) to build new roads etc. The Grand Jury records of who built what roads and how the money was raised from landowners where new roads were being built or old ones repaired are available in local council archives afaik
Apparently its from these grand juries - that some wag coined the phrase 'ah sure it'll be grand' after some of the shenanigans and skullduggery that the various local grand juries got up. At least that was the usual joke about them ...
The Down Survey is great too http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/down-survey-maps.php You can see if your land was originally taken/stolen from some poor "papist" to give to Cromwell's pals all those years ago0 -
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