Advise Please Intermitting Fasting vs high Protein Diet

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 3:13am

Mellor wrote: »

Physiology is a medical science field. "Exercise physiology" isn't the same thing.
Similarly, the course may have included an anatomy module, but a PT cert isn't a professional anatomy qualification either. They are subjects covered in a short course, but a professional qualification (ie a degree) in that specific subject would take years on its own.

I understand. But how relevant is that to anatomy in a exercise setting?

I can tell how each of the 4 quads are contracting (concentrically or eccentrically) in any movement on any plane sagittal transverse etc in any exercise.

I have had to list every single muscle being used and how its contracting in a practical exam.

I can tell you where muscles insert and originate. For example the rectus femoris originates in the anterior ( to the front) inferior iliac spine...it inserts in the patella...which is a tendon

I can tell you how to engage all heads of all muscle groups. Or just one or two.

I can tell you about muscle sliding theory and how ATP is generated.

I can tell you about the CNS or the peripheral nervous system.

I can tell you about the respiratory system in relation to exercise. I can tell the response of systolic or dystolic blood pressure to resistance training and how you can use this to your advantage.

I can tell you about the golgi tendon organ ...how it can inhibit contraction or stretching.

I can screen people safely for exercise.

I can tell you about cardiovascular fitness. How it improves stroke volume and venous return. I can tell you which program best fine tunes this.

I know the difference between a ligament and a tendon or the diff most important for exercise one is bone to bone the other muscle to bone.

I know how to design a program for people without injuring them.

I know how to isolate or mobilize joints in a warm up. I know how to safely stretch tendons, muscles etc in a warm up.

I know the structure of the knee joint etc I know what TYPE of joints they are synovial ,cartilage or fibrous etc I know the 6 types of synovial joints.

I know the 4 articulations (joints) that make up the glenohumeral joint (the shoulder joint).

I know DeLorme-Watkins weight training method ..tabata ..explosive dynamic training ...compound training ..muscular isolation training.
Are you an expert?

I know the thoracic spine begins at T1 and ends at T12. I know where the cervical spine ends ...the lumbar spine etc.

I know how to test for endurance in the neck muscle stabilizers ...i know WHAT the muscle stabilzers of the neck are ...i know what the primary flexors vrs the extensors of the neck are. (cervical extensors).

I don't know everything. True.

I feel bad for bitchin about so many anatomy classes now!

I did the PT course in UCD sports and fitness. Do it peeps its cool!

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 3:43am

I ain't gonna lie though ...during my exam i was like where does the thoracic spine end !??? I know it begins t1 that's easy!

Mellor · 18-05-2020 3:47am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I understand. But how relevant is that to anatomy in a exercise setting?

The thread is about diet, not exercise.
You were talking about professional qualifications in nutrition and other areas. I was pointing out in you don't actually have one.

I'm sure you know lots about exercise. You are clearly enthusiastic. But surely you recognize that it's broad field and there is more to it than covered by your course? There are plenty of very experienced trainers about this forum you could learn from.

I can tell you where muscles insert and originate. For example the rectus femoris originates in the anterior ( to the front) inferior iliac spine...it inserts in the patella...which is a tendon

Yes it inserts in the patella, which is a bone, not a tendon, also known as the kneecap.

I know the difference between a ligament and a tendon or the one most important for exercise one is bone to bone the other muscle to bone.

I'd have thought that was common knowledge. Covered in the junior cert.

Great flex, but largely irrelevant.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 3:57am

Mellor wrote: »

The thread is about diet, not exercise.
You were talking about professional qualifications in nutrition and other areas. I was pointing out in you don't actually have one.

.

Actually i do. Its part of the EQF level 4 PT qualification.

Yes it inserts in the patella, which is a bone, not a tendon, also known as the kneecap.

The quad CANNOT just attach itself to the patella....it needs the patellar or patella tendon to attach as i said.. Muscles can't attach directly to bone.

Muscles cannot attach to bone without tendons.

yes I would have thought that was common knowledge.

All muscles need tendons to attach to bone.

The patellar tendon ....extends from the quad to the patella. The quad inserts at the patellar tendon ..not the knee cap. (patella)

NOW! Drop and gimmie ten push ups :P

Now ten points if you can gimmie a patellar tendon stretch!

(Im sorry power has gone to my head) MOD I NEED A MOD!

Spoiler it inserts into the quadriceps tendon first.

All muscles must insert into a tendon.

The patella tendon is wait for it a tendon ..the patella bone is wait for it a bone.

The patella tendon i sometimes called the patellar tendon ..the patella bone is sometimes called the patellar bone.

EG patellar knee graft ..patellar fracture etc.

Mellor · 18-05-2020 4:51am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The quad CANNOT just attach itself to the patella....it needs the patellar or patella tendon to attach as i said.. Muscles can't attach directly to bone.

I never said anything about muscle attaching directly to a bone.

As I pointed out the function of ligaments and tendons is cover in junior cert biology.

You said the patella was a tendon. It's not. You made a mistake. It's ok.

All muscles must insert into a tendon

Muscles insert into bones via tendons, not into tendons. If you gonna be pedantic, get it right otherwise you just look like a fool.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 4:57am

Mellor wrote: »

I never said anything about muscle attaching directly to a bone.

You said the patella was a tendon. It's not. You made a mistake. It's ok.
Maybe that course wasn't are good as you made out.

IT IS.

The patella ...a tendon.

The patella ..a bone.

The patellar bone...

The patellar tendon.

Pateller graft ..patellar facture...

One refers to a tendon the other to a bone.

No muscle can insert into a bone. Obviously if i am saying a muscle inserts into something i mean a tendon. ALL SKELETAL MUSCLES INSERT INTO TENDONS

Yes it inserts in the patella, which is a bone, not a tendon, also known as the kneecap.

Since muscles cannot insert into bone it MUST be a tendon. The patellar/ patella tendon.

I am not going down this rabbit hole with you.

Your knowledge of anatomy is dangerous. For your future reference if someone tells a muscle inserts into something they must mean a tendon.How could i be saying a muscle inserts into a bone? It has to insert into a tendon first ..if you know the first thing about anatomy you know that.

Mellor · 18-05-2020 5:39am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

IT IS.

The patella ...a tendon.

The patella ..a bone.

The patella is a bone not a tendon.
The patella tendon is not the patella.

The fact you are arguing this, is baffling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patella

Your knowledge of anatomy is dangerous. For your future reference if someone tells a muscle inserts into something they must mean a tendon.How could i be saying a muscle inserts into a bone? It has to insert into a tendon first ..if you know the first thing about anatomy you know that.

Muscles insert on bones via tendons. The insertion point is a anatomical term for that point of the bone, that is a fact. That doesn't equate to claiming they attach on bones directly.

You've turned it into a personal attack for the sake of ego.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 5:54am

Mellor wrote: »

Muscles insert on bones via tendons. The insertion point is a anatomical term for that point of the bone, that is a fact.

No the insertion point is the attachment that has the most movement. And the origin point is the anchoring stable point. The origin is called so because the insertion point is usually distal. And the original point is usually proximal. That is what the terms refer to.

They don't refer to the point of bone because tendons can be diff lengths. And on diff people muscles can insert and originate at diff points on the bone. That is why some people have awesome glutes or hamstrings and great muscle separation. And others despite training ..often don't. There is a huge variation in origin and insertion points in individuals. It also makes people move differently. It will also mean diff exercises will be better for some individuals and that muscle group will respond better than others etc. Its because of their individual anatomy. This was a really interesting example for the lats https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768243/

Also the origin is also connected to the bone via a tendon. We don't call that point of the bone where the tendon attaches the insertion do we? We call it the insertion.

The terms have nothing to do with the point of bone. The terms origin and insertion are to do with the terms distal and proximal and the relative stability of the point of origin and the movement of point of the insertion.

The origin is the site that doesn't move when the muscle contracts the insertion is the point that does move when the muscle contracts.

(talking about skeletal muscle)

That is what the terms refer to.

Origin is usually proximal ...insertion is usually distal.
The above is vital information in relation to exercise.

Proximal attachment of the tendon is called the origin of whatever muscle you are talking about. It also will connect muscle to bone through a tendon. Its nothing to do with the point on the bone as to why its called that. etc.

Muscles insert on bones via tendons. The insertion point is a anatomical term for that point of the bone, that is a fact. That doesn't equate to claiming they attach on bones directly.

Obviously just because a muscle attaches to a bone at a stable point its not going to be called an insertion because that is the point it attaches to bone. Its going to be called the origin.

The term insertion has nothing to do with the fact that a muscle is attached by a tendon at that point of bone. Its to do where its the stable proximal point or the distal moving point when the muscle contracts..

Muscle origins are also attached by tendons to bone.

Long story short not every point at which a muscle attaches to bone is called an insertion. Only the point that moves when the muscle contracts .

The muscle insertion moves towards the muscle origin when the muscle contracts concentrically. The muscle insertion moves away from the muscle origin when the muscle contracts eccentrically. These two points of the muscle or muscle head are both connected to bone through tendons. But they are called origin and insertion respectively.

It has nothing to do with the point of bone they are attached to.

Muscles both originate and insert on bones via tendons. Bones have their own landmarks. The patella bone has its own landmarks for example.

Muscle attachment sites are a separate thing from the landmarks of bones.

Mellor · 18-05-2020 6:51am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No the insertion point is the attachment that has the most movement. And the origin point is the anchoring stable point. The origin is called so because the insertion point is usually distal. And the original point is usually proximal. That is what the terms refer to.

Nobody mentioned origin vrs insertion.

The point was the insertion refers to the attachment site on the bone. Origin also refers to a different attachment at the opposite end.
You are not refuting anything I said here, you are just waffling.

Long story short not every point at which a muscle attaches to bone is called an insertion.

I never said that all attachments are called insertions.
I said insertions refer to the attachment on the bone, not the attachment to the tendon as you claimed.

Muscles both originate and insert on bones via tendons. Bones have their own landmarks. The patella bone has its own landmarks for example.

So after all that, you agree with what I wrote previously, muscles insert on bones via tendons. Great. No idea why that took so long.

Since muscles cannot insert into bone it MUST be a tendon. The patellar/ patella tendon.

Can we agree the above is incorrect now. That muscle do insert on bones and that the patella is a bone.
The quad inserts onn the patella (via quad tendon) and patella connects to shin via patella ligament (aka tendon).

No relevant to diet so completely off topic. I'm done.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 7:04am

Mellor wrote: »

.
I said insertions refer to the attachment on the bone, not the attachment to the tendon as you claimed.

This is incorrect.

Insertions refer to the attachment on the bone AND the attachment to the tendon. But at the distal moving site.

Origins ALSO refer to the attachment on the bone and the attachment to the tendon but at the proximal stabilization site.

Its not that insertion is the attachment to bone and the origin is the attachment to muscle. Which is what you SEEM to be saying. (not sure. )

The muscle insertion is the WHOLE attachment both the muscle to the tendon and the tendon to the bone of the moving distal site.

The muscle origin is the WHOLE attachment both the muscle to the tendon and the tendon to the bone of the stable proximal site.

Insertions DO refer to the attachment of muscle to tendon and of bone to tendon. Origins also refer to the attachment of muscle to tendon and bone to tendon.

Their difference is that one is the distal moving site and one is the stable proximal site. The distal site of insertion moves towards the proximal site of origin when that muscle contracts concentrically.
Insertion can refer to the attachment to the bone or to the tendon. The origin can refer to the attachment to the bone or to the tendon.

Its whether its the moving distal point or the stable point. IE the muscle insertion has to come towards the origin when the muscle contracts concentrically.

Do you get it now?

So after all that, you agree with what I wrote previously, muscles insert on bones via tendons. Great. No idea why that took so long.

I was the one who said this. You claimed the quads inserted right into the patella bone.

padser · 18-05-2020 7:31am

Duplicate post

padser · 18-05-2020 7:32am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have an ACTUAL professional and internationally recognized qualification .....

Are you referring to this course?

https://www.ucd.ie/sportandfitness/courses/personaltrainingcourse/

It's not a university course or qualification. It has no entry requirements (literally you book a place by paying online). It is taught 6 hours a week on Saturday over 2 semesters (ie 24 weeks). That's roughly the equivalent of spending 3 to 4 weeks studying something full time.

You can choose to do the same course "full time" which is three days per week and appears to the exact same content with the addition of a "pilates instructor" qualification.

I'm just curious, when you refer to your qualification, is it this or something else you are referring to?

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 7:42am

padser wrote: »

Are you referring to this course?

https://www.ucd.ie/sportandfitness/courses/personaltrainingcourse/

It's not a university course or qualification. It has no entry requirements (literally you book a place by paying online). It is taught 6 hours a week on Saturday over 2 semesters (ie 24 weeks). That's roughly the equivalent of spending 3 to 4 weeks studying something full time.

You can choose to do the same course "full time" which is three days per week and appears to the exact same content with the addition of a "pilates instructor" qualification.

I'm just curious, when you refer to your qualification, is it this or something else you are referring to?

Oops sorry ..yes it was the full time version of the course.

I am aware its not a university level qualification i stated as much.

I guess it must be rubbish then.

padser · 18-05-2020 7:45am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No ..its not that. Mine was a full time course. 9 to 5.

2 semesters.

So...the only full time PT course I can see in UCD is the full time version of the one I just linked to.

Its 9 to 4:15, 3 days per week for 2 semesters.

Its the same content as the one I posted with the exception of the addition of a pilates qualification.

If it's not that one, would you mind sending me a link to the course you took?

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 7:48am

padser wrote: »

So...the only full time PT course I can see in UCD is the full time version of the one I just linked to.

Its 9 to 4:15, 3 days per week for 2 semesters.

Its the same content as the one I posted with the exception of the addition of a pilates qualification.

If it's not that one, would you mind sending me a link to the course you took?

Read my updated post.

Its changed since my course.

The full time one was more hrs when i did it.

Its perfectly fine if you wish to dismiss the qualification as rubbish.

And its certainly NOT a university qualification.

TBH I would have a lot of bad things to say about the course myself. And the teachers.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 8:03am

Anyway.

I am rather disappointed with my behavior on this forum.

Tonight has brought out my shadow side.

I apologize to Mellow and AUF..and anyone else.

I shall keep things lighter.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 8:05am

Anyway.

I am rather disappointed with my behavior on this forum.

Tonight has brought out my shadow side.

I apologize to Mellow and AUF..and anyone else.

I shall keep things lighter.

Dtp1979 · 18-05-2020 10:16am

Iloveyourvibes, thank you. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 10:51am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Iloveyourvibes, thank you. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

Mellor · 18-05-2020 11:58am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not that insertion is the attachment to bone and the origin is the attachment to muscle. Which is what you SEEM to be saying. (not sure. )

I never said anything of the sort.

Whenever, you seem make up a lot of things that wgere never said.

I was the one who said this. You claimed the quads inserted right into the patella bone.

I said it inserts on the patella. It does.
I didn’t say it attached without a tendon (quadriceps tendon btw) that would be silly.

Insertions DO refer to the attachment of muscle to tendon and of bone to tendon. Origins also refer to the attachment of muscle to tendon and bone to tendon.

Origin/Insertion site is the attachment to the bone. The muscle to tendon connection is called the musculotendinous junction.

Example: the extensor digitorum muscles joins to a tendon in the forearm. But the insertion, is the the fingers. It doesn’t have a forearm insertion

ILoveYourVibes · 18-05-2020 1:03pm

Mellor wrote: »

I never said anything of the sort.
Whenever, you seem make up a lot of things that wgere never said.

I said it inserts on the patella. It does.
I didn’t say it attached without a tendon (quadriceps tendon btw) that would be silly.

Origin/Insertion site is the attachment to the bone. The muscle to tendon connection is called the musculotendinous junction.

Example: the extensor digitorum muscles joins to a tendon in the forearm. But the insertion, is the the fingers. It doesn’t have a forearm insertion

Perfecto!

riffmongous · 18-05-2020 1:23pm

Anyways... OP one thing I found useful re snacking is to accept that it's going to happen at some point and instead try to change what you snack on, simply don't buy crisps or cakes or sweets that are small and easy to eat like malteasers or m&ms, and instead try to eat a can of tuna or personally I like crackers (like Ryvita) with sweet cheese on them, much more filling despite not having much calories to them. Only about 100 calories for 3 crackers and you will simply struggle to eat more than that, or if I'm really feeling like something sweet then a snickers that also provides more of a feeling of satiety

Minime2.5 · 22-05-2020 7:03pm

16:8 is probably the most sustanable form of IF because your really only cutting out breakfast , you could have a light protein shake for breakfast if you wanted which would only be 200 calories but the lunch and dinner meals can be absolutely massive as long as you choose good wholesome food and dont go hog wild on fat macros here an example. Theres nothing magical about being in a fasted state, its just an easier way to basically eat in a deficet

7am-Light breakfast 200 cal protein shake

1PM-Lunch 2 baked potatoes 2 or 3 grilled chicken breasts and a pile of veg

8pm-Dinner 2 baked potatoes , 250g of salmon or steak pile of veg

Baked potatoes are one of the best dieting foods because they are the no 1 most satiating food on the planet

That diet above has about 2200 calories but you can adjust depending on current stats and goals

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2020 7:58pm

I'm not sure if that was intended to be an example of 16:8....

This is it · 22-05-2020 8:00pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure if that was intended to be an example of 16:8....

In reverse...

Minime2.5 · 22-05-2020 8:18pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure if that was intended to be an example of 16:8....

And ?. If there is something your unsure of It's better to ask a question as opposed to making a statement

This is it · 22-05-2020 8:23pm

Minime2.5 wrote: »

And ?. If there is something your unsure of It's better to ask a question as opposed to making a statement

16:8 is fast for 16 and eat during an 8 hour window. The window in your example is 13 hours, starting at 7am and last meal beginning at 8pm, so actually longer than 13 by the time you finish eating. So where does 16:8 come into it?

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2020 9:09pm

Minime2.5 wrote: »

And ?. If there is something your unsure of It's better to ask a question as opposed to making a statement

I'm unsure of your maths. Also a little unsure why the response was so narky.

7am - 8pm is 13hrs. That's all. No need to take it so seriously

Minime2.5 · 22-05-2020 9:21pm

A protein shake of 200 calories in the morning with 2 big lunch and dinner meals of 1000 calories technically doesn't make it 16/8 but I did alure to this in what I wrote. Also I also mentioned there's no magic in being in a fast as state. You could eat 2 meals a day or 6 meals a day if calories and macros are equal than it makes **** all difference. IF is just a way to make being in a deficet easier

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2020 9:30pm

Minime2.5 wrote: »

A protein shake of 200 calories in the morning with 2 big lunch and dinner meals of 1000 calories technically doesn't make it 16/8 but I did alure to this in what I wrote. Also I also mentioned there's no magic in being in a fast as state. You could eat 2 meals a day or 6 meals a day if calories and macros are equal than it makes **** all difference. IF is just a way to make being in a deficet easier

It just wasn't clear, that's all.

And yeah it's just a tool.

Minime2.5 · 22-05-2020 11:45pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm unsure of your maths. Also a little unsure why the response was so narky.

7am - 8pm is 13hrs. That's all. No need to take it so seriously

Apologies. I'm always on the defensive when I post on these boards as there are quite a number of assholes

ILoveYourVibes · 23-05-2020 3:44am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm unsure of your maths. Also a little unsure why the response was so narky.

7am - 8pm is 13hrs. That's all. No need to take it so seriously

Isn't that just the way normal people eat?

I usually stop eating around 7. Just habit and I won't sleep well on a full stomach.

Alf Veedersane · 23-05-2020 8:12am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Isn't that just the way normal people eat?

I usually stop eating around 7. Just habit and I won't sleep well on a full stomach.

Maybe but the point was in relation to a 16:8 IF.

surfinbiz · 24-05-2020 8:31pm

It's all about eating the right food at the right time and in moderation. Try eating more green and bitter leafy vegetables and citrus fruits. And avoid carbohydrates as much as possible. Also, go for a fish diet instead of other meat.

rubadub · 25-05-2020 11:35am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

ALL CALORIE DEFICITS DO RESULT IN MUSCLE LOSS....:rolleyes:

Its rare for people to lose fat without losing some if not equal parts muscle.

In even the most protein rich diet while lifting it is inevitable that you will lose some muscle.

I used to hear this a lot, some going so far as to say it was a 100% impossibility.

I remained a steady 12stone for a long time while losing fat and gaining muscle. I was on a poor diet (I did have some protein shakes) and getting drunk 3-4 times a week, and only lifting weights casually at home. I saw several others say the same (maybe not the drinking!). I started out much heavier and was lifting all along, so had reasonable muscle mass when I hit the 12stone.

As is it certainly not rare to find somebody who is overfat with below optimal muscle mass I would think this should be common enough.

Have you seen any studies showing where overfat people with lower than average muscle mass could not put on muscle and lose fat at the same time while doing resistance training? I'd be very interested to read about it.

I always wondered where this idea of it being a rare occurrence came from. If people were saying it for pro bodybuilders with stupidly high amounts of muscle and very low fat then it would make more sense, I guess the body would struggle to put on more muscle that it might not detect as being really necessary, esp. as it might be trying to put on more fat as it might be benficial. But THESE people are more rare than Beergut Johnny sitting at home all day not lifting a finger. I have absolutely no doubt that the bulk & cut cycles bodybuilders do is a more efficient way of building muscle over the course of a year or 2, that is not in question.

This page links several studies

https://mennohenselmans.com/gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

Overweight (26% body fat) police officers starting a weight training program lost 9.3 pounds of fat and gained 8.8 pounds of lean body mass in 12 weeks.

Also more interesting it has studies on lean muscular people doing the same which I had not seen before.

One study looked at elite gymnasts. These were national level athletes with a training volume of 30 hours a week. They could do 17 pull-ups where their chest touched the bar (try doing 1). They were put on a 1,971 calorie, ketogenic diet. In case it wasn’t obvious, that’s pretty drastic for someone training over 4 hours a day. Their fat percentage of 7.6% dropped to 5% – lower than many bodybuilders in contest shape – in 30 days. Even under these conditions, they gained 0.9 pounds of lean body mass. And don’t forget they must have lost a lot of glycogen and water eating just 22 grams of carbs a day.

Alf Veedersane · 25-05-2020 12:06pm

Also here.

Cliffs: 4-week study, 40% deficit, added 1.2 kg muscle mass, when resistance training and a high-protein diet (2.4 g/kg BW) were used. They were able to stimulate MPS to a higher degree.

Is it always optimal to do both simultaneously? Unlikely. But to just say that a caloric deficit = muscle loss by default is not correct.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-05-2020 5:44pm

rubadub wrote: »

I used to hear this a lot, some going so far as to say it was a 100% impossibility.

I remained a steady 12stone for a long time while losing fat and gaining muscle. I was on a poor diet (I did have some protein shakes) and getting drunk 3-4 times a week, and only lifting weights casually at home. I saw several others say the same (maybe not the drinking!). I started out much heavier and was lifting all along, so had reasonable muscle mass when I hit the 12stone.

Well done lucky for some!

But may I ask what age you were? Also might genetics play a part?

Also might gender play a part?

And you mentioned you were lifting thus stimulating muscle growth.

A lot of people on these diets don't exercise AT ALL.

rubadub · 27-05-2020 6:45pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well done lucky for some!

I don't think it's luck at all, seems it's the norm, from reading those studies I would consider myself very unlucky if it didn't happen.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

But may I ask what age you were?

early 30s

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also might genetics play a part?

I don't think so, I was never into sports or anything when younger, quite the opposite, and as I said I was still drinking heavily during that time. I was doing nothing extraordinary, not the gym all day long or on steroids or some really special diet or something.

Also though I did no sports I would have been lifting boxes etc in work, and as a heavy guy would be called upon to help shift stuff, so its not like my muscles were totally wasted away or anything.

If somebody had a broken leg and was dieting when they got a cast off I would also expect them to rebuild the muscle quick enough, not as fast as if eating lots of course.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also might gender play a part?

Well I am male so I imagine the typical male would put on more than the average woman, just like any training.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And you mentioned you were lifting thus stimulating muscle growth.

A lot of people on these diets don't exercise AT ALL.

I was lifting, I have no doubt I would have lost muscle along with fat if I had not. But your post was.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

ALL CALORIE DEFICITS DO RESULT IN MUSCLE LOSS....:rolleyes:

Its rare for people to lose fat without losing some if not equal parts muscle.

In even the most protein rich diet while lifting it is inevitable that you will lose some muscle.

This is nothing new, I have heard loads of times before. Some said 100% impossible, like it defied some scientific law.

If you can find some study with overweight people doing resistance training, with below average or average muscle mass, cannot put on muscle while losing fat I would be interested to see it. I always wondered where this dogma came from.

Mellor · 28-05-2020 2:18am

rubadub wrote: »

I don't think it's luck at all, seems it's the norm, from reading those studies I would consider myself very unlucky if it didn't happen.

It happened to me also. over a long period of steady muscle gain and fat loss.
Dexa verified.

It's obviously not optimal in terms of speed of results.

This is nothing new, I have heard loads of times before. Some said 100% impossible, like it defied some scientific law.

If you can find some study with overweight people doing resistance training, with below average or average muscle mass, cannot put on muscle while losing fat I would be interested to see it. I always wondered where this dogma came from.

The science law part is quoted by people not understanding that law, or at least how to balance equations.There's never positive of negative energy, it's always zero.

The assumption i that you can't add and take away energy simultaneously.
When you are actually taking from one, and adding to the other. Which is fine from a physics point of view.

ILoveYourVibes · 30-05-2020 5:15am

rubadub wrote: »

Well I am male so I imagine the typical male would put on more than the average woman, just like any training.

Very very much so.

Advise Please Intermitting Fasting vs high Protein Diet

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