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Journalism and cycling

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Cyclists were here first...
    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Ah well I'm afraid the "I was here first" argument trends to not work so well in wars.

    The bike might have been around first but as the modes of transport evolved and moved forward so did every thing else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    The bike might have been around first but as the modes of transport evolved and moved forward so did every thing else.

    I really wish you were right.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Of course its possible to do, anyone can kick out straight into a car.
    In fairness it quiet easy to do, try your self with no one in your car. Hang on the roof and reach across. And it never said he was still on the bike and the car was at a stand still.

    Anyhow I always get the feeling that people here won't believe a bad thing against cyclists but if its anyone else its totally different.

    Any chance you could do a little video showing how easy you can get your kick over the level of the car seat, but below the level of the roof? So you can't bring your kick up diagonally from the ground, as you'd hit off the chassis or the passenger car seat. I'd be very interested to see you making this kick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    Any chance you could do a little video showing how easy you can get your kick over the level of the car seat, but below the level of the roof? So you can't bring your kick up diagonally from the ground, as you'd hit off the chassis or the passenger car seat. I'd be very interested to see you making this kick.

    It just takes practice

    bruce-lee-cycling.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Incoming on Livelive now, continuing the great cyclist/motorist war of 2016.
    Radio is a truly excellent medium, but the tight link in Ireland between radio and "drive time" really makes for a dispiriting listen. RTÉ's love of cheap but on-average rubbish formats such as phone-ins doesn't help.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Radio is a truly excellent medium, but the tight link in Ireland between radio and "drive time" really makes for a dispiriting listen. RTÉ's love of cheap but on-average rubbish formats such as phone-ins doesn't help.

    And even Lyric is sinking rapidly into a marsh of populism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Chuchote wrote: »
    And even Lyric is sinking rapidly into a marsh of populism.
    I don't listen enough to be knowledgeable. They definitely can get a bit "Classic FM" at times, but they still broadcast some quite uncompromisingly unpopular stuff from the Second Viennese School, and Reich wannabes. (Nothing wrong with the 2nd VS or Reich, I hasten to add.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Good letter in The Irish Times today about cycle lanes from John Thompson of Phibsboro

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-trouble-with-cycle-lanes-1.2834400
    Sir, – Where I know that the cycle lane has a very bad surface compared to the road, I use the road. Bikes feel the bumps much more than cars, and large bumps can both damage the bike and cause accidents, so it is strange that cycle lanes are typically where the gutters and drains are, and where roads are typically dug up to access services and are badly resurfaced after. Cycle lanes also tend to be closer to the trees and may be badly rippled by root growth. Some dedicated cycle path surfaces seemed to disintegrate badly in the cold weather of 2010 and have never been repaired…
    Choosing to travel on cycle lanes like these is a mistake a rider makes only once. It really makes you wonder what goes on in planners’ heads.

    He also covers new cycle lanes' awful design in detail: cars parking on them, pedestrians walking on them, bus stops badly placed, lanes that land cyclists out in front of cars preparing to turn, lack of planning for right turns, badly-set traffic lights. A good letter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Also, a good piece by New York's former transport commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, who introduced parking-protected cycle lanes that changed the city:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html
    Never underestimate the anger directed at bicyclists. They ride too fast, terrorizing pedestrians. They ride too slow, dangerously obstructing drivers. They don’t wear helmets or reflective bike gear, jeopardizing themselves. They shouldn’t ride in streets, which are hostile, car-only zones. They shouldn’t have their own lanes because there aren’t enough of them to take away space from cars. Yet there are so many of them that they’re running down pedestrians and therefore shouldn’t ride on sidewalks.
    …we moved quickly to implement many bike lanes protected by a lane of parked cars. Part of what was so appealing about bike lanes as a transportation solution is that they are a lot easier and cheaper to install than new subways. The main construction material is paint, which simplifies the amount of technical and bureaucratic work necessary to design a good one.
    And using paint is only part of what makes them incredibly cheap, since federal clean-air funds could be used to pay for 80 percent of the bike lane expenditures.
    We got buy-in from the city’s fire commissioner, who had no problem figuring out that the designs left ample room for their companies. (It helped that his chief deputy was a bike enthusiast.)
    Police Commissioner Ray Kelly was instrumental in getting his department to sign off on changes to signs, traffic flow, and enforcement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,095 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Also, a good piece by New York's former transport commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, who introduced parking-protected cycle lanes that changed the city:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html

    I like her attitude in general but...
    The main construction material is paint, which simplifies the amount of technical and bureaucratic work necessary to design a good one.

    I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    buffalo wrote: »
    I like her attitude in general but...



    I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.

    Well, at the same time, her main bike lanes were made by changing the borders on the roads, so that the car parking was moved out to allow a bike lane in the former car parking area. The objections seem to have been howls of protest by people who formerly double-parked!


  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭knockoutned


    I’m currently living in New York and one of these parking-protected lanes was recently introduced in the Avenue near my apartment. I was surprised how quickly it took them to set it up. The road itself had recently been resurfaced, so the lane had a good surface to begin with. One day walking home, the cars were parked beside the curb. The next day, they had removed the paint indicating the parking lane and one traffic lane and had painted in the new cycle lane, “no man’s land” between the cycle lane and parking lane and the new parking lanes. Straight away cars, started moving out and parking in the new area. Following that, they painted the cycle lane in green paint. Last thing was to place new concrete curbs between the cycle lane and car lane at the beginning and end of each block for pedestrians to cross. The whole thing probably took 6 months to complete everything, but now you have a safe* cycling lane on a very busy avenue.

    *It being new York, people will still walk out in front of you, (though this decreases as everyone becomes more aware of the new setup) taxi’s will cut across you turning left as you go straight and delivery trucks will pull in at the top of turning lanes, but at least the chance of being doored or someone pulling out in front of you has been reduced.

    My only problem with these types of lanes is not the actual cycle lane itself, but more the block setup of New York. You’re probably stopping every two blocks as cars turn across you or the lights change. Where I believe these lanes would be very effective are long stretches of road with little or no intersections, such as Fitzwilliam Street, Lesson Street etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    "A good Bike lane is made up of mostly paint" I agree with this. At least it is when the same lane is accompanied by good signage and does not take away a cyclists "right of Way" at junctions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Sadik-Khan (who has an Irish mother!) says that they did it like that because it was reassuring for people - the attitude was "Oh, ok, it can be reversed at any time? We'll give it a try!" Then they found they liked it, and retail sales doubled and doubled again in the cycle-ised and pedestrianised areas.
    https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more?language=en#t-606566


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    buffalo wrote: »
    I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.

    By far the most important thing about a bike lane is coherent planning.

    Paint really is the only important material if you put it in the right places.

    My personal bugbear about Irish cycle lanes is how they coat them with a thin layer of coloured tar. Great if you do it full depth and with the right machinery like they would in Holland, but we just paint a thin bumpy layer on side-ways. It starts de-laminating within months and turns the lane into a lumpy, gritty, dangerous mess (which holds onto dirt and glass even more vigorously). Good times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Sadik-Khan said that it was important in New York to make the cycle lanes a temporary thing - at first, anyway - so that people knew they could be reversed if they didn't prove advantageous.

    By the way, this is in The Irish Times just now:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/unnecessary-deaths-caused-by-low-spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-1.2837200
    ‘Unnecessary deaths’ caused by low spend on cycling infrastructure
    UN report says 20% of transport budget should be spent in area but just 1% will be in 2016


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Today's letter is from Hugh James Martin of Dublin 2, pointing out that he sees equal amount of lawbreaking among all users of the roads:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2838440


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    There was a drivers v cyclists feature in yesterday's herald, which I heard being advertised on the radio. Needless to say, I didn't seek it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    There was a drivers v cyclists feature in yesterday's herald, which I heard being advertised on the radio. Needless to say, I didn't seek it out.

    Considering that the paper is freely advertising the location of a man under threat of being murdered…


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Today's letter is from Hugh James Martin of Dublin 2, pointing out that he sees equal amount of lawbreaking among all users of the roads:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2838440

    I'd be inclined to agree with him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/cyclist-83-died-after-collision-on-avenue-road-35140267.html
    An inquest into the death of John Byrne (83)… heard that at around 10am on the morning of June 9th 2016 Mr. Byrne, who lived at 40 Cluan Enda, had been cycling along the Avenue Road when he was involved in a road traffic collision.
    [At] Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda… it emerged he had suffered a 'traumatic head injury.'
    The inquest heard there was damage to the front of a car which was also involved in the collision.
    Mr. Byrne… passed away on June 20th.
    Coroner Ronan Maguire… said that it was tragic for them to have lost someone they loved in this way.
    He added that there was 'an inherent danger with cycling' and tragically John had lost his life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    That's some nifty editorialising, Coroner Ronan Maguire.

    (Note the driverless car that was "involved" in the collision too.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation. But the whole tone - "tragically, John had lost his life" due to the "inherent danger in cycling" - how careless of John. That life must be somewhere around the place, he's just, tragically, lost it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 WindomEarle


    Chuchote wrote: »
    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's some nifty editorialising, Coroner Ronan Maguire.

    (Note the driverless car that was "involved" in the collision too.)

    Bizarre - whatever about journalists coming out with this tripe, for a professional coroner, who is paid by the State to investigate and judge the outcome of sudden deaths, to come out with this tripe is quite scary.

    I don't suppose there is a Coroner's professional body?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation. But the whole tone - "tragically, John had lost his life" due to the "inherent danger in cycling" - how careless of John. That life must be somewhere around the place, he's just, tragically, lost it.

    I'm keeping an open mind on the coroner's motives/intentions with those statements. If a state coroner suggests that there is something "inherently" dangerous about cycling, or the current environment cyclists are forced to operate in, then such a finding can force the state to act. As I see it, there are three potential actions that the state could take:

    1: Ban cycling. It's inherently dangerous.
    2: Ban motor vehicles. They create an inherently dangerous environment for pedestrians and cyclists.
    3: Develop the necessary infrastructure to create a safe environment for pedestrians and cyclists.

    I don't seriously think options 1 or 2 are viable, but if a state employee is officially suggesting that there is an inherent danger to cyclists, due to the lack of infrastructure, then this is another compelling argument to develop the necessary infrastructure.

    Also: "I was knocked down while cycling. The coroner said cycling is inherently dangerous in Ireland. Cycling is not considered inherently dangerous elsewhere. My contention is that my accident was the direct result of neglect on behalf of the state. Therefore I am suing the state." x10,000 cyclists.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation.
    which begs the question about why they started in the first place; are there complicating factors with the investigation that it's taking longer than expected?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Isn't there an 'inherent danger' in driving too? Or everything for that matter? It seems like an accurate, but stupid, thing to bring up.

    There is a fourth option too Moflojo. Write off any cyclist death or injury as an unavoidable consequence of the inherent danger. This is the most likely result in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death? In this case, it's clear enough: traumatic brain injury from being hit by a car. Whether it was the cyclist's fault he was hit, partly or completely, is another matter, and it's not really his business to be opining on that one way or the other. Particularly with such airy generalities as "the inherent danger of cycling", which is rather similar to the "inherent danger of walking" anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,508 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death? In this case, it's clear enough: traumatic brain injury from being hit by a car. Whether it was the cyclist's fault he was hit, partly or completely, is another matter, and it's not really his business to be opining on that one way or the other. Particularly with such airy generalities as "the inherent danger of cycling", which is rather similar to the "inherent danger of walking" anyway.

    Its completely standard for the coroner to make comments and give their (possibly incorrect) opinion on matters they consider of public importance. It's part of their role.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death?
    what's the difference between the role of an autopsy and the role of an inquest?
    surely - if the above - the inquest is just rubberstamping the autopsy report?
    or is 'cause of death' to include more than just the medical cause of death, i.e. also why the death occurred?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    what's the difference between the role of an autopsy and the role of an inquest?
    surely - if the above - the inquest is just rubberstamping the autopsy report?
    or is 'cause of death' to include more than just the medical cause of death, i.e. also why the death occurred?

    The autopsy is the 'post-mortem' - the examination of the dead body to find the physical/medical cause of death.

    The inquest can call witnesses who saw a collision, etc, and judge what was the cause of death - accident, unlawful killing, etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html
    Perhaps wrongly, I've always taken a droll view of how men treat women. The groping. The patronising. The breaking of hearts. But when it comes to money, I take a hard line.

    Because that's what cycling is really about. Doing business and cutting us out. When I worked in Silicon Valley years ago, I met a venture capitalist who was revered by his colleagues, not for his great deals, but for taking part in the Paris-Roubaix cycling competition. Its terrain is so rough, including a long stretch over cobbles, they have to build bikes capable of withstanding the course. The venture capatalist wasn't religious but reeked of piety, a quality I have long despised. Give me a cigar-smoking old fart with a great belly-laugh any day.

    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the key four words are the four at the end of the article.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    amusingly, one of the promoted articles (from external links, not on the indo) underneath is '13 unexpectedly attractive female billionaires'. that comes across as an article that was pitched as a pisstake but was taken seriously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    On a cheerier note, a TED talk by an Israeli IT university founder about cycling with kids from the local reformatory:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html



    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √

    I like the juxtaposition of the article. Being "held up" by a few cyclists for a few seconds, versus hundreds of thousands of cars grinding the city to a halt on a daily basis. It's good to have balance and perspective in journalism.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-motorway-or-carpark-how-irelands-busiest-route-is-at-breakdown-point-35155501.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html



    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √

    Sadly you would expect the Sindo to come out with such tripe on a regular basis. That rag isn't even worthy of emergency toilet roll replacement.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I like the juxtaposition of the article. Being "held up" by a few cyclists for a few seconds, versus hundreds of thousands of cars grinding the city to a halt on a daily basis. It's good to have balance and perspective in journalism.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-motorway-or-carpark-how-irelands-busiest-route-is-at-breakdown-point-35155501.html
    his closing comments in this article are interesting:
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/paul-melia-politicians-are-failing-to-keep-the-capital-moving-35155503.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote



    It's surprising that the cost of running a car - averaging €11,000 a year according to the AA, but probably up on that now, since the AA's figures didn't include recent rises in car insurance - isn't being publicised. People who are struggling to save a deposit to buy a home could save €33,000 in three years merely by switching to cycling. Not only would it stop the gridlock on the M50, it would have a knock-on effect on the country's health bill and carbon footprint.

    Some old US figures in this TED talk about bicycles as a vehicle for social change; it would surely be possible to find the equivalent Irish figures:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    I found this article last week more interesting just for the idea of people complaining about the state of the M50 and the traffic on it, while posting on social media presumably while using it.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 WindomEarle


    endagibson wrote: »
    I found this article last week more interesting just for the idea of people complaining about the state of the M50 and the traffic on it, while posting on social media presumably while using it.

    I'm pretty sure I heard one of the heads on Newstalk's breakfast show this morning saying something like 'text us in if you're stuck in traffic on the M50 - you won't be doing anything wrong if you're stopped, right?"

    Amadán.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I'm pretty sure I heard one of the heads on Newstalk's breakfast show this morning saying something like 'text us in if you're stuck in traffic on the M50 - you won't be doing anything wrong if you're stopped, right?"

    Amadán.

    Gosh, I wonder could they cite that Newstalk jockey if they were brought up in court.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭Fian


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Gosh, I wonder could they cite that Newstalk jockey if they were brought up in court.

    Nope, doesn't make it any less irresponsible of them of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Weakish letter from Roger Garland today - it starts off strong, asking for compulsory purchase of land beside roads for cycling and walking trails, but the last line weakens it; first line and last line quoted here:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/funding-for-cycling-1.2842905
    In response to the report from the UN Environmental Programme (News, October 21st) about the lack of funding for proper infrastructure for cycling and walking, which the report says is partly responsible for the unacceptable number of road deaths of these vulnerable road users, Keep Ireland Open has been campaigning for some years for improved safety for recreational walkers and cyclists…
    We call on the government-sponsored National Waymarked Ways committee, who manage the Wicklow Way, to use their influence to good effect.

    Oddly, though the letter is very clearly about cycling and walking, the headline is only about cycling; Irish Times trying to bait a controversy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chuchote wrote: »
    It's surprising that the cost of running a car - averaging €11,000 a year according to the AA, but probably up on that now, since the AA's figures didn't include recent rises in car insurance - isn't being publicised. People who are struggling to save a deposit to buy a home could save €33,000 in three years merely by switching to cycling. Not only would it stop the gridlock on the M50, it would have a knock-on effect on the country's health bill and carbon footprint.

    Some old US figures in this TED talk about bicycles as a vehicle for social change; it would surely be possible to find the equivalent Irish figures:



    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night

    The Dutch and Danes manage to do all this and more on bikes, and the country's buses are full of people going home for the weekend.
    What is this thing about showers in work? I've never needed a shower after cycling in to work. It's not the Tour de France!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The saving Chuchote is talking about are really big if you don't actually own a car as average_runner says. I just rent cars, but I am fit and have a cargo bike, and a tolerant wife who doesn't herself drive, and who appreciates the couple of grand extra a year more than she would a car (which I would barely ever drive, even if I had it.) We also live near the Luas and we don't mind bus travel at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Chuchote wrote: »
    What is this thing about showers in work? I've never needed a shower after cycling in to work
    It depends on how far from work you live though. I couldn't amble along at 15kmh for my 30+km cycle


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
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    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
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    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    GoCar or the club organises transport.
    5) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    It depends on how far from work you live though. I couldn't amble along at 15kmh for my 30+km cycle

    Well, yes, good point. And if there aren't showers in work, it might be worth factoring in a quick visit to the nearest Corpo swimming pool to your work, where you could shower and change.

    But getting back to the economics, people often buy houses in Gorey or the lonely reaches of Co Meath for the savings in house prices. But if they factored in the cost of commuting and added it to their mortgage payments, they might actually be far better off to ditch the car and buy in Kimmage or Whitehall and cycle to work and school.

    If they want to go home on the weekend and visit the mammy (an idea I warmly commend), apart from the bus there's car hire, which has come down in price startlingly in recent years.


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