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Maintenance and college

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    #32
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Wiggle makes some great points. I’d follow trying find out if he’s graduating via the available ‘public info’

    And I don’t particularly like saying this, but very few youngsters lock their social media profile down. I’d set up a shiny new profile (with none of your contact details), and view his social media.


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    #33
    Accepting Cookies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    A parent isn't always legally obliged to pay maintenance automatically if the child is in full time education until the age of 23. I can understand if the judge involved has weighed the specific costs here in this OP's case, and has ordered maintenance, to help his child afford to attend college.

    But what the law actually says, is that "if the child is over 18 and under 23 and the financial circumstances do not allow him/her to attend further education, maintenance can be applied for in order to facilitate further education." I asked the person I know who went through this what the language of his solicitor was, and it was along the lines of if the child has no means of continuing with a full time education, maintenance can be applied for so the child can continue with education.

    In the case of this person I know, the 17 year old child received a full payment/grant from SUSI for PLC. Post completion of PLC course, maintenance was stopped. Father paid maintenance during that year as child was still 17 for most of it, but stopped after course was done and because child already turned 18, and was in employment. Child's mother threatened court for on-going maintenance to still be paid with the reason of paying until 23 if still in education, although no further university acceptance information nor information of costs were given to him. Legal advise was sought and he was advised that he was not obliged to pay maintenance as 1. no college/university information was given as to real and actual costs 2. Assumption that once again full grant from SUSI would be awarded if they were to attend and as also living the required km away to receive full award 3. Adult child is now in full employment and expected to contribute.

    And then what do you know, the adult child did not in the end attend college or university this year, and continues to work in employment. Luckily the father is in contact with child and this was admitted to him or else he wouldn't have known the truth. The father was still accused of "leaving his child high and dry" by his mother.


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    #34
    ManOfMystery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,394 ✭✭✭ManOfMystery


    I'm not sure if it applies to every college/uni, but in my uni days we were all given uni supplied email addresses and these were then deactivated when we left. They're usually easy enough to work out, e.g. firstname.surname@ucc.ie as one example. If someone was to send a random test mail to a uni account from Gmail or the like and they get an undeliverable saying that address isn't active, it could be a sign the person is no longer at the college. Long shot though, unless you know the address convention they use.


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    #35
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    You said you were blocked on Twitter and Facebook. You might be but others won't be. If your new wife has an account or a trusted friend or relation, maybe you could get them to have a look at his social media. He may also have other social media you haven't looked at yet, instagram etc.

    Also unless he has locked down all his profiles to the last, even logging out of your account and looking him up will probably let you see his basic profile.

    Even his name and a few well chosen words in a google search can yield quite a bit of information.


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    #36
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    Agree with all the above.

    Tell her you are going to claim for tax relief on the tuition fees for the last couple of years and Revenue are looking for receipts of payment.

    If the fees were covered by a grant or SUSI, tell her they want to see the grant documents as you'll need to withdraw your claim.

    Excellent advice.

    But if the son only stopped going to classes it's in his best interests to stay enrolled for the rest of the year- it may even make financial sense for him to repeat a year.


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    #37
    2pacshakur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 58 ✭✭2pacshakur


    I wouldn't pay a dime more unless proof your son is attending college.

    I'd be getting legal advice.


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    #38
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Accepting Cookies wrote: »
    A parent isn't always legally obliged to pay maintenance automatically if the child is in full time education until the age of 23. I can understand if the judge involved has weighed the specific costs here in this OP's case, and has ordered maintenance, to help his child afford to attend college.

    But what the law actually says, is that "if the child is over 18 and under 23 and the financial circumstances do not allow him/her to attend further education, maintenance can be applied for in order to facilitate further education." I asked the person I know who went through this what the language of his solicitor was, and it was along the lines of if the child has no means of continuing with a full time education, maintenance can be applied for so the child can continue with education.

    In the case of this person I know, the 17 year old child received a full payment/grant from SUSI for PLC. Post completion of PLC course, maintenance was stopped. Father paid maintenance during that year as child was still 17 for most of it, but stopped after course was done and because child already turned 18, and was in employment. Child's mother threatened court for on-going maintenance to still be paid with the reason of paying until 23 if still in education, although no further university acceptance information nor information of costs were given to him. Legal advise was sought and he was advised that he was not obliged to pay maintenance as 1. no college/university information was given as to real and actual costs 2. Assumption that once again full grant from SUSI would be awarded if they were to attend and as also living the required km away to receive full award 3. Adult child is now in full employment and expected to contribute.

    And then what do you know, the adult child did not in the end attend college or university this year, and continues to work in employment. Luckily the father is in contact with child and this was admitted to him or else he wouldn't have known the truth. The father was still accused of "leaving his child high and dry" by his mother.

    My god, that is awful. I truly hope you’re not up against this kind of behaviour OP. I don’t feel so bad now about saying to try looking up your child’s online profile.

    I think the post I quoted does point very much to the merits of legal advice on this though.


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    #39
    Accepting Cookies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    Full disclosure qwerty13, we are. My husband has dealt with parental alienation and abuse the entire life of his child. Earlier on in Primary school the mother refused to give him book lists and one year he got one off another parent in the school. Turns out the mother had been giving him receipts to pay for books of her other children too.

    To add: my advice to the OP and anyone in this situation is to get legal advice. I don't see how one could be faulted when there's no information given as to the real and actual costs. Which is always what maintenance should be based on in the first place!


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    #40
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Accepting Cookies wrote: »
    Full disclosure qwerty13, we are. My husband has dealt with parental alienation and abuse the entire life of his child. Earlier on in Primary school the mother refused to give him book lists and one year he got one off another parent in the school. Turns out the mother had been giving him receipts to pay for books of her other children too.

    To add: my advice to the OP and anyone in this situation is to get legal advice. I don't see how one could be faulted when there's no information given as to the real and actual costs. Which is always what maintenance should be based on in the first place!

    My god. That is horrible. Who knows what causes people to split up, but to use a child like that is just reprehensible in my book. The partner (male or female) could have sh*gged rings round them, and that behaviour would still be disgusting, using a child in that manner.

    Edit to add: not saying that’s your situation Cookies! I just reacted v strongly cos I think it’s just nasty nasty behaviour on the part of the child’s mother


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    #41
    Timestamped
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Timestamped


    rainbowtrout wrote:
    You said you were blocked on Twitter and Facebook. You might be but others won't be. If your new wife has an account or a trusted friend or relation, maybe you could get them to have a look at his social media. He may also have other social media you haven't looked at yet, instagram etc.


    Hi rainbowtrout,

    I got someone to look at his social media, it looks like he is not a big user of it tbh. He maybe using Snapchat which I won't be able to see or get any anyonelse to see.


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    #42
    Timestamped
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Timestamped


    qwerty13 wrote:
    My god. That is horrible. Who knows what causes people to split up, but to use a child like that is just reprehensible in my book. The partner (male or female) could have sh*gged rings round them, and that behaviour would still be disgusting, using a child in that manner.


    I could tell a lot of stories here about my own experience, I have a few friends who have kids with exes, got on well with each other and raised the child in an amicable way. My situation is one of many estranged parents who are deal g with this sort of stuff. My son has been fed lies his entire life about me and nothing will fix that.


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    #43
    Timestamped
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Timestamped


    I remember one time he came to me for the weekend, must be 12 years ago now and I bought him a pair of timberland boots, think they cost over 100 euro, anyway dropped him home. Next weekend when I collected him, no boots. I asked him where they were and he said his mam didn't like them s9 she chucked them in the bin. I questioned her about it and she they were rotten and she didn't like them. This is the ****e you a dealing with on a regular basis.


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    #44
    Accepting Cookies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    Thanks for the words of support, qwerty13. It's absolutely reprehensible is right, and unfortunately that is only the tip of the iceberg. My husband (and our family) went through regular monthly denied access, abuse at pickup/drop off times, extortion for money to see child at Christmas time, denied access on birthdays, denied involvement with schooling and anything medical, using their child to deny time and pass on sarcastic messages, saying in front of the child my husband is a disgrace of a father, not her real father, and that she was giving guardianship to her own husband (the stepfather), making it clear to the child that I was not welcome in child's life in numerous ways, taking child to paternal granny and aunts for visits was cast in the light of "bouncing the child around," regular threats of court and moving abroad just to "make it awkward then" to be in child's life, ruined plans and booked holidays... one time we arrived to collect child to go on our family holiday and the mother and her household were gone. Disappeared 2 weeks without a word to anyone. Pulled out of school. Turns out they went to Trobolgan on their own family holiday.

    Still just the tip of it.. I have a feeling Timestamped knows this pattern all too well. Even though we are in contact with his adult child, the damage has been done and he's faced months and years of denied contact. Siblings have to bear the brunt of this as well, it is so, so wrong. My heart goes out to you, Timestamped.


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    #45
    Timestamped
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Timestamped


    Accepting Cookies wrote:
    Still just the tip of it.. I have a feeling Timestamped knows this pattern all too well. Even though we are in contact with his adult child, the damage has been done and he's faced months and years of denied contact. Siblings have to bear the brunt of this as well, it is so, so wrong. My heart goes out to you, Timestamped.


    All of the above, absolutely horrendous behaviour but made out to be all mine(and you husband). It will never change, the law is biased, no guardianship either, ex would not sign form.
    Anyhow, message is sent so I await the abuse......


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    #46
    Accepting Cookies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    Well if you receive abuse instead of maturely passing you the information you're entitled to so that you may support your son, then you have all you need should she take it further.

    Have you any way of getting a message through to your son? I would reach out via any method you're not blocked on letting him know you're there for him and that you want to support him but need some information so you can do your best.

    My husband's last email to his child's mother was to let her know he's not speaking to her again. Their child is now an adult and capable of handling her own life and he'll only be communicating with his child going forward. Now that his child is an adult, he never has to accept her abuse ever again and neither do you. After this episode, Timestamped, I would block her by all means possible and keep trying to reach out to your son and focus on him and going directly however you can. Even posting messages of love for him on your FB publicly so that he sees. I would bet every now and again he searches for you. It's so, so tough, and I just hate it. The emotional effects on children are so damaging, laws need to change. I know a bit of what you are going through as I had to watch this happen to my lovely husband who's only an amazing man and father. Hang in there.


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    #47
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Timestamped wrote: »
    I remember one time he came to me for the weekend, must be 12 years ago now and I bought him a pair of timberland boots, think they cost over 100 euro, anyway dropped him home. Next weekend when I collected him, no boots. I asked him where they were and he said his mam didn't like them s9 she chucked them in the bin. I questioned her about it and she they were rotten and she didn't like them. This is the ****e you a dealing with on a regular basis.

    You begrudged paying maintenance to the mother but had no problem shelling out €100+ for a pair of boots?

    I just lost any sympathy I had for you, and up to this point, I did have some. But that comment pulled me up short.

    After that comment, I'd love to hear her side of this particular tale of "the bitter ex".


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    #48
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    AulWan wrote: »
    You begrudged paying maintenance to the mother but had no problem shelling out €100+ for a pair of boots?

    I just lost any sympathy I had for you, and up to this point, I did have some.

    After that comment, I'd love to hear her side of this particular tale of "the bitter ex".

    Really? He spent €100 on his child. The woman then took the boots and chucked them out because she didn't like them (spite, more like )

    If this woman is demanding maintenance on the basis the child is still in education when he's not, then that's fraud. Op has already stated he'd be happy to give financial support directly to his son.


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    #49
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    AulWan wrote: »
    You begrudged paying maintenance to the mother but had no problem shelling out €100+ for a pair of boots?
    I just lost any sympathy I had for you, and up to this point, I did have some.
    After that comment, I'd love to hear her side of this particular tale of "the bitter ex".

    That's pretty unfair. His son is in his 20s, and you're judging his entire contribution as a parent based on one pair of boots he bought for his son when he was 11 or 12.
    He never said he begrudged maintenance or couldn't afford it. He said that when they separated he did not pay it for a while as he believed it wasn't being spent on his son, and now apparently thinks the same thing might be happening again.

    Mod:

    OP I'm going to close this thread this evening as I think you've got all the advice you're going to get. If you would like it reopened, you can let me know.


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    #50
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Timestamped wrote: »
    Yep, when I left in 2002 (good reason),I refused to give her money so she could go out on the town. I kept a diary and bought groceries etc and dropped them to the house every week. She reported me to the social welfare thinking they would make me pay her but instead they came after me cause she was claiming lone parents and I had to pay maintenance to them after that. When she came off lone parents we came to an informal arrangement. All was ok ish until I met my wife, got married, built a house and had my first child with my wife. The ex went on to have 3 more kids with 2 other guys and seemingly I replaced my son with my other family.

    Buying groceries, rather then giving her cash "to go out on the town" is all about CONTROL.

    She did right reporting you to social welfare. But before you start patting yourself on the back, you do realise that social welfare do not transmit any maintenance money paid directly to them to the custodial parent for the support of the child? Not one single cent of it.

    They offset it against the cost of paying the allowance to the taxpayer. So in reality, your ex did receive any of that money and was in effect raising your child without any direct financial assistance from you, until she came off lone parents and you made your "informal arrangement".

    There are three sides to stories like these, yours, hers and the truth usually lies in between.

    Oh yeah. Some prince you are.


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    #51
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    AulWan wrote: »
    You begrudged paying maintenance to the mother but had no problem shelling out €100+ for a pair of boots?

    I just lost any sympathy I had for you, and up to this point, I did have some. But that comment pulled me up short.

    After that comment, I'd love to hear her side of this particular tale of "the bitter ex".

    I don’t think that you read and understood that post very well.


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    #52
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Oh, I understand it all too well.

    I've seen more than a lifetimes worth of this type of carry on a dozen times amongst my own circle of friends and family to recognise the pattern.

    I hope the OP gets the proof he requires.

    I also wonder will he be as quick to cut off the three kids that live with him once they turn twenty, or will they still be living at home with him paying for the roof over their heads and paying for groceries, or will he expect them to move out and be completely independant.

    Enough said.


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    #53
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Mod:

    As this thread appears to have run its course, I'm going to lock it now.

    Thanks & GRMA all who posted

    Thread locked.


This discussion has been closed.
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