Maintenance and college

Timestamped

Hi guys,
I am looking for your advice. I have a son who is 20 years of age from a previous relationship. I have paid maintenance to his mother since we split over 17 years ago. I have not seen him in over a year and our relationship is very strained (long story).
Anyway I have a feeling that he may not be attending college at all.
How can I find out if he is attending?
I contacted the college but they won't tell me due to GDPR.
Should I make contact with his mother and ask for proof of attendance?
Anybody have a similar experience?

ZiabR

I am under the impression that you only need to keep up maintenance payments for a child until the age of 18. Now I know he is your son, but he is 20 years old, old enough to work etc. If you have doubts as to where the money you are paying is going, I don't see any reason why you could not stop paying this.

Have you tried to speak with your son?

SusieBlue

ZiabR wrote: »

I am under the impression that you only need to keep up maintenance payments for a child until the age of 18. Now I know he is your son, but he is 20 years old, old enough to work etc. If you have doubts as to where the money you are paying is going, I don't see any reason why you could not stop paying this.

Have you tried to speak with your son?

OP is legally obliged to pay maintenence for his son up to the age of 23 if he is in full time education.

I would insist on proof, OP. Say you need it for revenue/your accountant or something, so as not to cause tension or further sour relations.

A letter from the college confirming that he has been attending shouldn't be too hard for him to get his hands on - if he's actually going, that is.

zapper55

Echo Susie's post. I wouldnt mention your suspicions about him not going.

Timestamped

ZiabR wrote:

I am under the impression that you only need to keep up maintenance payments for a child until the age of 18. Now I know he is your son, but he is 20 years old, old enough to work etc. If you have doubts as to where the money you are paying is going, I don't see any reason why you could not stop paying this.

ZiabR wrote:

Have you tried to speak with your son?

I am legally obliged to pay maintenance until he is 23 if in fulltime education.
I have tried taking to him but unfortunately there are others talking too.

Timestamped

SusieBlue wrote:

I would insist on proof, OP. Say you need it for revenue/your accountant or something, so as not to cause tension or further sour relations.

SusieBlue wrote:

A letter from the college confirming that he has been attending shouldn't be too hard for him to get his hands on - if he's actually going, that is.

Thanks Susie. I want to be clear, I have no problem paying the maintenance if he is in college, in fact I would prefer to pay it direct to him as I doubt his mam is giving it to him.
I will contact my ex and say I need it for revenue.
Things are very, very strained unfortunately but I tried my best....

Timestamped

zapper55 wrote:

Echo Susie's post. I wouldnt mention your suspicions about him not going.

Thanks Zapper

wiggle16

Agree with all the above.

Tell her you are going to claim for tax relief on the tuition fees for the last couple of years and Revenue are looking for receipts of payment.

If the fees were covered by a grant or SUSI, tell her they want to see the grant documents as you'll need to withdraw your claim.

Timestamped

wiggle16 wrote:

Tell her you are going to claim for tax relief on the tuition fees for the last couple of years and Revenue are looking for receipts of payment.

wiggle16 wrote:

If the fees were covered by a grant or SUSI, tell her they want to see the grant documents as you'll need to withdraw your claim.

Cheers wiggle16. Haven't talked to ex in over 3 years at this stage. Can only contact through messenger.

wiggle16

How many years has your son been in college? Would this be his final academic year?

Timestamped

To be honest, she won't care if I'm claiming tax back and will probably go out of her way to not make that happen....

Timestamped

wiggle16 wrote:

How many years has your son been in college? Would this be his final academic year?

3rd year this year, it's unreal that I can say is I don't know but he ever went

wiggle16

Is third year his final year? (Theres a reason im asking)

Timestamped wrote: »

To be honest, she won't care if I'm claiming tax back and will probably go out of her way to not make that happen....

I know this is hypothetical, but to be honest you can't actually make the claim anyway. Tax relief on tuition fees paid needs to be specifically for tuition fees, it can't be made in respect of maintenance paid even if it was in fact used to pay tuition, because there is no tax relief due at all for maintenance paid to an ex partner for the benefit of a child, regardless of what it was used for. You just need to be sure that SHE doesn't know that.

Timestamped

Have no idea if it's his final year? Does it change things if it is?
Oh I know I can't claim the relief.

LuciX

Timestamped wrote: »

3rd year this year, it's unreal that I can say is I don't know but he ever went

That's so bizarre what some so called mothers can get away with...

Stop paying OP, stop paying and she will be in touch in no time.
Once in court you will have to explain why you stopped the payments and the onus is on her to prove the son is attending college/university whatever (by the look of things he isn't) and then, if your suspicious is correct you are entitled to claim back any over payment.

Timestamped

LuciX wrote:

Stop paying OP, stop paying and she will be in touch pretty soon. Once in court you will have to explain why you stopped the payments and she will have to prove the son has been in college (by the look of things he isn't) and then, if your suspicious is correct you are entitled to claim your over payment back.

I paid maintenance since I left but stopped once because she wouldn't let me see him. She brought me to court and the judge ruled that I had to pay maintenance anyway, so court order for maintenance. When my solicitor went over to her to get her bank details, she wanted to know when she would get the arrears, solicitor told her the judge did not award arrears. She was not impressed. Thing is I saved all the maintenance i didn't pay and that allowed me to pay deposit for accommodation for college.

LuciX

Timestamped wrote: »

I paid maintenance since I left but stopped once because she wouldn't let me see him. She brought me to court and the judge ruled that I had to pay maintenance anyway, so court order for maintenance. When my solicitor went over to her to get her bank details, she wanted to know when she would get the arrears, solicitor told her the judge did not award arrears. She was not impressed. Thing is I saved all the maintenance i didn't pay and that allowed me to pay deposit for accommodation for college.

Well done! You are a great father.
Hopefully he will soon realise that (not for financial gain) and reconnect with you.

Unfortunately maintenance and visitation are separate matters.
I do think if you are being prevented from seeing the child you shouldn't pay a dime but that's not how the law goes...

As you know he is only entitled to maintenance over the age of 18 IF he is in full time education. You have valid reasons not to pay. Don't let her get away with it.

I don't know (you don't need to explain yourself) why it took you so long to have the light switched on but better late than never.

Timestamped

LuciX wrote:

I don't know (you don't need to explain yourself) why it took you so long to have the light switched on but better late than never.

I guess I was sort of hoping that he was genuine (maybe more like me) but am married now with 3 more to put through college so every penny counts.

CageWager

Stop paying. Then when she comes looking for the cash you can tell her to produce proof from the college if she wants the tap turned back on.

wiggle16

Timestamped wrote: »

Have no idea if it's his final year? Does it change things if it is?
Oh I know I can't claim the relief.

Just to be clear - I know you aren't actually trying to claim it, it's just to be aware that if you do say it's for tax reasons she may catch you out on that if she is savvy enough.

It doesn't change things, BUT:

If he is in college, then in the year he graduates the college will be publishing graduation booklets beforehand. These list every student who is due to graduate that year, whether or not they will be attending. A college graduation is deemed to be a public event and the conferral is a public acknowledgement. So you could request one from the college on the pretext that you wish to attend. If he says he is in college and will be graduating in a certain year, this would verify whether or not it's true.

ETA: I do think this should be last resort and you should start off with SuzieBlue's advice in the first instance.

Timestamped

wiggle16 wrote:

If he is in college, then in the year he graduates the college will be publishing graduation booklets beforehand. These list every student who is due to graduate that year, whether or not they will be attending. A college graduation is deemed to be a public event and the conferral is a public acknowledgement. So you could request one from the college on the pretext that you wish to attend. If he says he is in college and will be graduating in a certain year, this would verify whether or not it's true.

Awww I see, good thinking. Gonna message tomorrow and say I need proof.

wiggle16

Can I ask, and this is probably nosiness on my part more than anything else, but what got you thinking he isn't attending college? You don't have to answer, obvs.

Timestamped

wiggle16 wrote:

Can I ask, and this is probably nosiness on my part more than anything else, but what got you thinking he isn't attending college? You don't have to answer, obvs.

Something just seems off about it, was messaging on messenger with him and asked a few questions about college, answers didn't seem right.

wiggle16

I get you.

Just thinking about it there, ask for proof softly-softly. The claiming tax part might get your ex's back up if she thinks you're going to be "profiting" from him in some way.

You could say that you are applying for a loan, and the bank is looking for proof of your projected expenses for the next few years, so you need something to say how long he's going to be in college for, from the college. It's a reasonable story and hard to argue with, and doesn't "involve" him or your ex.

topmanamillion

Do you have access to his social media accounts?
If he's a 20 year old going to college it'll be packed with posts giving out about assignments and photos from college nights out.
He'll be tagged in posts and photos by other people on his course. I'm assuming you've been told what course he's doing.

That or hire a Private Investigator to do the work for you. Should be no more than a days work for a decent one.

Timestamped

topmanamillion wrote:

Do you have access to his social media accounts? If he's a 20 year old going to college it'll be packed with posts giving out about assignments and photos from college nights out. He'll be tagged in posts and photos by other people on his course. I'm assuming you've been told what course he's doing.

Blocked on Twitter and Facebook

topmanamillion

Timestamped wrote: »

Blocked on Twitter and Facebook

Is this a recent thing? Goes without saying what I'm getting at there.

If you're under a court ordered maintenance order you're entitled to get proof of his college enrolment. If simply asking his mother for your "loan" application doesn't work you should stop payment fairly lively.

I really do feel for you. You're story just highlights the sh1t on the shoe status Irish fathers have in cases like this.

Timestamped

topmanamillion wrote:

I really do feel for you. You're story just highlights the sh1t on the shoe status Irish fathers have in cases like this.

Yep, when I left in 2002 (good reason),I refused to give her money so she could go out on the town. I kept a diary and bought groceries etc and dropped them to the house every week. She reported me to the social welfare thinking they would make me pay her but instead they came after me cause she was claiming lone parents and I had to pay maintenance to them after that. When she came off lone parents we came to an informal arrangement. All was ok ish until I met my wife, got married, built a house and had my first child with my wife. The ex went on to have 3 more kids with 2 other guys and seemingly I replaced my son with my other family.

ILoveYourVibes

wiggle16 wrote: »

Just to be clear - I know you aren't actually trying to claim it, it's just to be aware that if you do say it's for tax reasons she may catch you out on that if she is savvy enough.

It doesn't change things, BUT:

If he is in college, then in the year he graduates the college will be publishing graduation booklets beforehand. These list every student who is due to graduate that year, whether or not they will be attending. A college graduation is deemed to be a public event and the conferral is a public acknowledgement. So you could request one from the college on the pretext that you wish to attend. If he says he is in college and will be graduating in a certain year, this would verify whether or not it's true.

ETA: I do think this should be last resort and you should start off with SuzieBlue's advice in the first instance.

Its not deemed a public event you can't just turn up. Not even my brother could get into my graduation as i could only have two people. I was very annoyed and i couldn't go to his as he could only have two people and obv we both wanted our parents there. I only got to go to his masters graduation that year there were more places. It really sucks!



There is no way you would in reality be able to achieve this. Attendance for most graduations is tight and require booking or a ticket its usually limited to two people per student.

They will know you actually can't attend if you request a booklet or that you haven't been invited by a student as they would have to book for you.

ILoveYourVibes

Does your son have social media? Can you check if he has the college on his fb ? does he have friends from the same college etc?

How much longer does he have of the course? Is this his last year? If he is going.

Just ask him ..himself maybe.

wiggle16

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not deemed a public event you can't just turn up. Not even my brother could get into my graduation as i could only have two people. I was very annoyed and i couldn't go to his as he could only have two people and obv we both wanted our parents there. I only got to go to his masters graduation that year there were more places. It really sucks!
There is no way you would in reality be able to achieve this. Attendance for most graduations is tight and require booking or a ticket its usually limited to two people per student.
They will know you actually can't attend if you request a booklet or that you haven't been invited by a student as they would have to book for you.

That's not what I meant. I worked in third level institutions and I've worked at graduations, I know the two person rule is very strict in most places because of space constraints - I had massive rows with students who invited their whole street and mummy and daddy were not happy to be taking orders from "the likes of" me when I told them that granny was not getting in - one girl wrecked her makeup because she got so worked up screaming at me.
(I hope we never crossed swords IRL, I can be a little antichrist when I need to be :P)

What I meant is that the booklet is not covered by data protection rules in the same way as other information is, because the graduation is deemed a public event. That's not the same as the general public having access to the venue - it means the names of the graduands are public knowledge because the conferral is a public acknowledgement of their achievement. Now, that doesn't mean you'll be able to get your hands on a graduation booklet, but there's nothing stopping you. The university doesn't have to give you one, but there's nothing preventing them from doing so either. I wasn't recommending turning up at the graduation and I wouldn't either.