Anyone use those e-scooters?

whisky_galore · 29-09-2020 11:25am

Lainey Nutty Sock wrote: »

That's just like, your opinion man.

Should kids push scooters be insured also?

They don't have an engine or motor and they don't travel up to 15 kph or faster. But you knew this.

jimgoose · 29-09-2020 11:28am

murpho999 wrote: »

It's motorised yes, but very differently to a car. So should fall under a different category.
E-bikes are motorised as well with a tiny motor in the wheel and are also correctly not taxed.

What's the obsession with taxing vehicles?

Cars are taxed for polluting the atmosphere which neither bicycles or scooters do.

As for insurance, if a cyclists or person on a scooter has a collision they'll come off the worst and will not cause major damage to objects around them so what do they need to be insured for?

Motor vehicles are taxed for the use of the road. Electric cars are taxed at 120 Euro per annum. Motor tax and VRT rates are lower for electric vehicles to encourage their uptake, largely for environmental reasons, but that is not the same thing.

A mechanically propelled vehicle, such as an E-bike, can do a mint of damage on hitting a pedestrian or another person on some sort of bicycle at 40-odd km/h, and so most definitely need to be insured. If I had my way push-bikes would require insurance (and some sort of variant of the driver theory test) as well.

TomTomTim · 29-09-2020 11:29am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Speak for yourself, and what appalling behaviour? I've never heard of them harming anyone (apart from that incident the other night) or witnessed it myself.

They honestly seem to have less regard for traffic laws than even some cyclists. I regularly see them ignoring red lights at a far higher rate than cyclists.

TomTomTim · 29-09-2020 11:32am

jimgoose wrote: »

Motor vehicles are taxed for the use of the road. Electric cars are are taxed at 120 Euro per annum. Motor tax and VRT rates are lower for electric vehicles to encourage their uptake, largely for environmental reasons, but that is not the same thing.

A mechanically propelled vehicle, such as an E-bike, can do a mint of damage on hitting a pedestrian or another person on some sort of bicycle at 40-odd km/h, and so most definitely need to be insured. If I had my way push-bikes would require insurance (and some sort of variant of the driver theory test) as well.

They already do. Any automatic E Bike needs to be insured, as does any E Bike that goes beyond 25kph. I really don't understand why the same rules don't apply to E Scooters.

jimgoose · 29-09-2020 11:33am

TomTomTim wrote: »

They already do. Any automatic E Bike needs to be insured, as does any E Bike that goes beyond 25kph. I really don't understand why the same rules don't apply to E Scooters.

Me neither. "E-scooter" I meant to say, sorry.

spurious · 29-09-2020 11:38am

Do they only work if you wear all black on them?

Tony EH · 29-09-2020 11:44am

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Yes there was a guy killed on one the other night. Was also talking to a lad from Blanch last week who bought one for commuting to Lucan on. Proudly told me it would do 45 km/h.

I have never seen one of these things do 45kmh. Are you sure he wasn't talking about one of these instead?

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images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSY6RRtzMqAfRmfTwYSgSYxey7a-EnjkkeNQQ&usqp=CAU

murpho999 · 29-09-2020 12:00pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Motor vehicles are taxed for the use of the road. Electric cars are taxed at 120 Euro per annum. Motor tax and VRT rates are lower for electric vehicles to encourage their uptake, largely for environmental reasons, but that is not the same thing.

A mechanically propelled vehicle, such as an E-bike, can do a mint of damage on hitting a pedestrian or another person on some sort of bicycle at 40-odd km/h, and so most definitely need to be insured. If I had my way push-bikes would require insurance (and some sort of variant of the driver theory test) as well.

Motor tax applies to some vehicles and not all so I don't see the need to tax them.

As for insurance, I appreciate that a cyclist can damage a pedestrian but they would minimum damage to a car or truck and infrastructure.

The number of incidents of pedesrian being seriously injured by a cyclist is small and would not warrant a blanket requirement for insurance for all cyclists.
I think it's just sour grapes by motorists to be honest and a failure to acknowledge that the most dangerous , damaging and polluting vehicles on the roads are cars and trucks and that's why they pay tax and require proper insurance.

Rules of the road should be taught in school by the way. That and other practical things should be added to the curriculum instead of religion but that's another debate.:)

seamus · 29-09-2020 12:02pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Is there any reason to use one of these over a bicycle other than the gimmick of them? I would imagine most folks are traveling distances that you could easily cycle.

For the most part, yes. But for many people the thought of cycling even 20 minutes is too much. They'd rather spend 40 minutes on a bus or in the car.

You also have people who are genuinely not able to use a bike, and you have other concerns such as showering, makeup, etc.

My personal opinion is that aside from being disabled, all of the above are just lazy excuses for not cycling, but at the same time I am supportive of all measures that remove private cars from the road. So if 20 minutes on an e-scooter is the way to get them out of the car, then it has the thumbs up from me.

A small bit of focus from the department of transport on this could not only bring some behaviour and legislative improvements in the area, but would also promote them as a form of transport.

ExoPolitic · 29-09-2020 12:25pm

To people asking the benefits of these;

You can take them on the bus, luas and train (and on the train they don't need booking like a bike does), so they make excellent last mile personal transport devices, and encourage public transport uptake.

You can arrive in to Heuston and immediately set off for your work place and get there sweat free, amazing.

They are socially distancing.

They are green.

They take up less road space than a car.

They are quiet.

They fit under your desk at work, no need to park it outside.

They go at the same speed as cyclists do and take up the same road space - in fact there is legislation in the making to include them on cycling/ebikes legislatory documents.

jester77 · 29-09-2020 12:27pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Is there any reason to use one of these over a bicycle other than the gimmick of them? I would imagine most folks are traveling distances that you could easily cycle.

I cycle a lot myself and have found e-scooters to be pretty dangerous on cycle tracks - they come out of nowhere to overtake you and there's not much of a noise out of them at all, so no real warning.

Had one whizz by and scare the absolute bejasus out of me during the week.

If you are in the city and don't have your bike with you, then they are a quicker way of getting somewhere than bus or taxi. Plus they are much cheaper than a taxi.

Duckjob · 29-09-2020 12:30pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Motor vehicles are taxed for the use of the road. Electric cars are taxed at 120 Euro per annum. Motor tax and VRT rates are lower for electric vehicles to encourage their uptake, largely for environmental reasons, but that is not the same thing.

Not correct I'm afraid.

Use of motorised vehicles on the roads attracts motor tax because of 2 factors:

1) Environmental damage.
2) Wear and tear to roads & resulting maintenance bills.

Electric cars are taxed low, because they are much much better for local air quality. However, they do not escape completely because

a) they still have a large carbon footprint to produce,
and
b) they weigh similarly to ICE cars and therefore degrade roads surfaces as much.

punisher5112 · 29-09-2020 12:31pm

Most I see using them are unsteady and don't look around to see what's going on....

The tiny wheels also are a huge safety concern and they can be good for ones back or joints or posture for that matter as every bump will be felt unless it's one with the chunky tyres.

Many roads aren't suitable.

Eircom_Sucks · 29-09-2020 12:47pm

go and stand outsid Tesco Clearwater Finglas and see the amount of scrotes on them , using the path and nearly killing each other on them

any parent who buys their kids one of these says it all ( fooking scum ) , kids already glued to their tablet devices and now basic exercise been taken away

we'll pay for this in 10 years time when obesity is even worse cause little fat scrotes using these and not walking

bo0li5eumx12kp · 29-09-2020 3:40pm

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

go and stand outsid Tesco Clearwater Finglas and see the amount of scrotes on them , using the path and nearly killing each other on them

any parent who buys their kids one of these says it all ( fooking scum ) , kids already glued to their tablet devices and now basic exercise been taken away

we'll pay for this in 10 years time when obesity is even worse cause little fat scrotes using these and not walking

Perhaps with this new form of transport they'll be less inclined to ride the Luas, which I personally would appreciate.

Gatling · 29-09-2020 3:55pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I have never seen one of these things do 45kmh. Are you sure he wasn't talking about one of these instead?

You can find ones that will do 70 + kmh and can be flashed with custom firmware to go faster again .

Sketchy as **** trying to ride one of those at 50+ hit a decent bump and your roadkill

punisher5112 · 29-09-2020 4:24pm

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

go and stand outsid Tesco Clearwater Finglas and see the amount of scrotes on them , using the path and nearly killing each other on them

any parent who buys their kids one of these says it all ( fooking scum ) , kids already glued to their tablet devices and now basic exercise been taken away

we'll pay for this in 10 years time when obesity is even worse cause little fat scrotes using these and not walking

Yes, see all around and Dublin city.....

I do laugh seeing parents out walking and kids off ahead on an e scooter, brilliant idea... Then you see the same ones feeding them sweets and crisps in the morning on the way to school.

Tony EH · 29-09-2020 6:04pm

Gatling wrote: »

You can find ones that will do 70 + kmh and can be flashed with custom firmware to go faster again .

Sketchy as **** trying to ride one of those at 50+ hit a decent bump and your roadkill

That's over 40 miles an hour. There's no bloody way you'd get me on one of those things doing a speed like that.

Dangerous, in a stupid way.

ChikiChiki · 29-09-2020 6:09pm

I was in Sao Paolo with work in December and they were very popular for office commuters over there given the traffic issues in the city (it could take circa 2 hours to go 10km at rush hour).

Mad to see here people think it's unworkable because the scrotes will use them. I think it's a perfectly viable transport option.

Gatling · 29-09-2020 6:13pm

Tony EH wrote: »

That's over 40 miles an hour. There's no bloody way you'd get me on one of those things doing a speed like that.

Dangerous, in a stupid way.

Our one is quick enough but on anything but flat perfect tarmac things could get dicey .

I'll likely be adding a suspension kit at some point

Nexytus · 29-09-2020 6:43pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

. I think it's a perfectly viable transport option.

It should be. But then there must be compulsory third party insurance policy for users. The same as cars.

Either everyone is obliged to get insurance. Or no one. Can't be one rule for one.

And this thing of an e-scooter driver would never cause a traffic accident is patent nonsense. They can drive in a manner that would lead to an accident and other parties could be injured as a result.

KungPao · 29-09-2020 6:49pm

E-scooters are so lame. I rollerblade into work like a real man.

AndrewJRenko · 29-09-2020 9:44pm

murphyebass wrote: »

Motor cars are without question dangerous but they’re regulated.

Scooters should be taxed, insured, kept on the road and users should be wearing helmets.

If not they should be banned.

But are motor cars actually regulated? Yes, we have regulations, I grant you that, but they really aren't enforced to any significant degree. We wouldn't have 98% of motorists breaking urban speed limits if the regulations were enforced. We wouldn't have the majority of motorists admitting to using their phones while driving in two recent independent surveys if the regulations were enforced. We wouldn't have 100k-150k uninsured motor vehicles on Irish roads if the regulations were enforced.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer that we focused our enforcement activities against the current generations of motorists that largely ignore traffic laws rather than finding new enemies to chase.

murphyebass wrote: »

How can you waive the need for tax and insurance on a motorised vehicle??

As for congestion charges, it’ll never happen. No politician in power will want the backlash from the horde of daily motorists going city centre bound.

jimgoose wrote: »

They are mechanically propelled vehicles, and as such should be roadworthy like any motorcycle - lights, indicators, etc. They are not. Their users should be competent, licensed riders and road-users. They are not. The wretched things are a lethal menace in their current form.

If you want to address 'lethal menaces' on the roads, you might want to focus on the drivers that kill 2 or 3 people each week.

TomTomTim wrote: »

They honestly seem to have less regard for traffic laws than even some cyclists. I regularly see them ignoring red lights at a far higher rate than cyclists.

Do they ignore red lights at a higher rate than motorists ignore speed limits (about 98%)?

spurious wrote: »

Do they only work if you wear all black on them?

No, that would be BMWs that you're thinking of, where you pay extra to go really, really black so that you're almost completely invisible when parked, so that you can scream out of the darkness at scootists about their helmets and hi-vis.

https://www.bmw.com/en/design/the-bmw-X6-vantablack-car.html

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

go and stand outsid Tesco Clearwater Finglas and see the amount of scrotes on them , using the path and nearly killing each other on them

any parent who buys their kids one of these says it all ( fooking scum ) , kids already glued to their tablet devices and now basic exercise been taken away

we'll pay for this in 10 years time when obesity is even worse cause little fat scrotes using these and not walking

If you want to deal with obesity, let's stop having kids being driven 1km-4km to school and football and dancing. That's what causes obesity, not scooters.

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Mad to see here people think it's unworkable because the scrotes will use them. I think it's a perfectly viable transport option.

Ah here, hold on. It's not just that scrotes use it. It is that scrotes give their kids sweets while they're using it. You do see the problem, right?

dundalkfc10 · 30-09-2020 12:17am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But are motor cars actually regulated? Yes, we have regulations, I grant you that, but they really aren't enforced to any significant degree. We wouldn't have 98% of motorists breaking urban speed limits if the regulations were enforced. We wouldn't have the majority of motorists admitting to using their phones while driving in two recent independent surveys if the regulations were enforced. We wouldn't have 100k-150k uninsured motor vehicles on Irish roads if the regulations were enforced.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer that we focused our enforcement activities against the current generations of motorists that largely ignore traffic laws rather than finding new enemies to chase.

If you want to address 'lethal menaces' on the roads, you might want to focus on the drivers that kill 2 or 3 people each week.

Do they ignore red lights at a higher rate than motorists ignore speed limits (about 98%)?

No, that would be BMWs that you're thinking of, where you pay extra to go really, really black so that you're almost completely invisible when parked, so that you can scream out of the darkness at scootists about their helmets and hi-vis.

https://www.bmw.com/en/design/the-bmw-X6-vantablack-car.html

If you want to deal with obesity, let's stop having kids being driven 1km-4km to school and football and dancing. That's what causes obesity, not scooters.

Ah here, hold on. It's not just that scrotes use it. It is that scrotes give their kids sweets while they're using it. You do see the problem, right?

A young fella, plays GAA and Soccer 3 evenings and once at weekend, especially in winter when it's dark. It's not safe for these kids to be out on the streets walking to and from training as the Gardaí have lost the streets in many areas. No fault of their own all on the sentencing.

I know if I had a son old enough who could even cycle to training, the route he has go to get home id say he would be lucky to arrive home with a bike never mind a phone etc or even worse a kicking

_Brian · 30-09-2020 7:43am

murphyebass wrote: »

How can you waive the need for tax and insurance on a motorised vehicle??

As for congestion charges, it’ll never happen. No politician in power will want the backlash from the horde of daily motorists going city centre bound.

Simple change to legislation and it’s done. Do you think they are taxed and insured across Europe ?? Many things people think unchangeable can easily be done once there is a government appetite.

How Soon Is Now · 30-09-2020 8:05am

Loads the young fellas in Dublin city centre selling drugs use them actually it's mostly yokes in the city centre using them in general ha.

Plus ya get the lads working on building sites who bring them on the Luas in the mornings and afternoon and don't fold them.

They're just another obstacle on the streets until there are laws attached to them in fairness.

faceman · 30-09-2020 8:25am

eScooters are great in urban settings. Of course Ireland's lack of progressive thinking means we are way behind. Im amazed the Greens aren't getting behind them.

Other cities have eScooter rental companies similar to Dublin Bikes. Open an app, see where the nearest parked eScooter is and off you go. An area I visit in Spain rolled them out in July and I was using my car far less as a result for runabouts. California has a number of companies that do it. Most cities allow cycle lane use.

However I wouldn't like to be on one in the rain

AndrewJRenko · 30-09-2020 11:29am

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

A young fella, plays GAA and Soccer 3 evenings and once at weekend, especially in winter when it's dark. It's not safe for these kids to be out on the streets walking to and from training as the Gardaí have lost the streets in many areas. No fault of their own all on the sentencing.

I know if I had a son old enough who could even cycle to training, the route he has go to get home id say he would be lucky to arrive home with a bike never mind a phone etc or even worse a kicking

Who said he has to be on his own? If he's too young to be on his own, then you can cycle with him.

But let's revisit the main point here - scooters are not a cause of obesity. Car dependent culture is a huge cause of obesity, and many other medical conditions. If 1 scooter = 1 less car or 1 scooter = 1 extra seat on the bus or tram, then it is a good thing.

fenris · 30-09-2020 4:34pm

faceman wrote: »

eScooters are great in urban settings. Of course Ireland's lack of progressive thinking means we are way behind. Im amazed the Greens aren't getting behind them.

Between naps, the leader of the greens owns and runs a bike shop

expectationlost · 30-09-2020 4:41pm

anyone use a non electric scooter? for commuting

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-09-2020 5:47pm

expectationlost wrote: »

anyone use a non electric scooter? for commuting

There was a couple of hippies that went to the same gym as me years ago, they used to come and go on them.

....

We didn't see eye to eye, me and...... those people.

:pac:

Point being a bike vastly eclipses push scooters, but electric scooters where you can get to location not covered in sweat = winning.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-09-2020 5:57pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Tried out the Kaiser Bass Revo (€599) and it was alright, but not good enough to make me part with my money.

Xiaomi M365 seems to be the popular choice, selling for just €400 last time I checked the price (pre-covid).

Where do you see it listed at that price?

600 large in halfords.

AndrewJRenko · 30-09-2020 6:21pm

fenris wrote: »

Between naps, the leader of the greens owns and runs a bike shop

Does he still own it? He is mentioned as a 'former co-owner' in a couple of reports.

ExoPolitic · 30-09-2020 7:25pm

Lainey Nutty Sock wrote: »

Where do you see it listed at that price?

600 large in halfords.

Halfords are the most expensive for it.

Cunning Stunt · 30-09-2020 7:30pm

A fair few teenagers zooming round on them here where Im living in Denmark. Some of them travel at a worrying speed to be honest, its a bit mad. No helmets or anything.

Dyr · 30-09-2020 7:31pm

faceman wrote: »

eScooters are great in urban settings. Of course Ireland's lack of progressive thinking means we are way behind. Im amazed the Greens aren't getting behind them.

The Greens are bicycle jihadis, to them, e-scooters are Satans magic carpets ridden only by infidels.

Dyr · 30-09-2020 7:32pm

Lainey Nutty Sock wrote: »

Where do you see it listed at that price?

600 large in halfords.

600 grand? Seems a bit steep to me.

AndrewJRenko · 30-09-2020 8:52pm

Bambi wrote: »

The Greens are bicycle jihadis, to them, e-scooters are Satans magic carpets ridden only by infidels.

That's some great imagination you have there;
https://www.greenparty.ie/the-green-party-has-called-on-the-government-to-encourage-rather-than-ban-electric-scooters/

Anyone use those e-scooters?

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