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The Haka: What would AH suggest as the best response?

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Comments

  • #202
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    The whole thread is just silly sour grapes. Maori culture and traditions are part of NZ culture as a whole. If you don't like the Haka don't look at it. Go and make a cup of tea while it's on, or get something stronger to prepare you for the thrashing your team will get when the Haka finishes. I don't think anyone at all has whined about the Siva Tau or Cibi. Are they less annoying than the Haka because Ireland has a better chance of beating Samoa and Fiji?


  • #203
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    I'd find the best response is probably to laugh at a bunch of what is mostly middle class white men trying to imitate a custom from an indigenous people who had their land taken off them......what they gonna do? throw a shape and stick their tongues out at you ??


    who could fail to laugh at this shambles


    What they gonna do? Kick the ****e outta ya, its rare that NZ lose in rugby


  • #204
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    I'd find the best response is probably to laugh at a bunch of what is mostly middle class white men trying to imitate a custom from an indigenous people

    15 of the 31 members of the squad, and the majority of the starting team, are Islanders. The backs and midfield are almost all Islanders.


  • #205
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,310 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    Or like South Africa losing to Japan ....oh wait hold on a min :rolleyes:

    That proves my point nicely, thanks. World ranking of 12 beating 5th is considered the greatest upset of all time.


  • #206
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    The whole thread is just silly sour grapes. Maori culture and traditions are part of NZ culture as a whole. If you don't like the Haka don't look at it. Go and make a cup of tea while it's on, or get something stronger to prepare you for the thrashing your team will get when the Haka finishes. I don't think anyone at all has whined about the Siva Tau or Cibi. Are they less annoying than the Haka because Ireland has a better chance of beating Samoa and Fiji?

    it's any one of the countries that perform the various dances that annoy people irrespective of which country, this Siva tau or cibi wouldn't be mentioned as most of us would neither know nor care what they are called and the Haka is most often mentioned as it is the top team that does it and probably the most famous/well known?

    do you not think two teams in any sport should start a game on level pegging without any extra ceremony which belongs to their own country, I do. it's irrelevant if it is an advantage or not or if it's tradition and a great spectacle (which is debatable).

    For home games in New Zealand or the other teams that do the various dances perhaps there is a case for it to be performed but certainly not at the World Cup. If it's about embracing tradition and respecting various cultures why wouldn't Ireland also be entitled to have both Amhrán Na Bhfiann and Ireland's call played before a game also at the World Cup?


  • #207
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Rugby, and a lot of its fans, are a bit odd. I always hear the same argument (from blokes, mainly) about how it's "a real man's game". To me at least, the fact that it's based on brute strength rather than skill (an over-simplification, but you get the idea) isn't necessarily better - it depends on your taste. But I think that the fans who keep repeating that, at the expense of soccer, sound a bit insecure. As though they love the validation they get from watching a big tough game with big tough men.

    Similarly, the Haka has some kind of mythical hold on some people, who love watching manly men do some chants and look tough. It's a really odd example of a cultural practice (which you cannot reply to effectively, unless you want to be fined) that has become enforced theatricality.

    The 'real man' argument has always sounded silly to me and the Haka is comical.


  • #208
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    dunno if it's been mentioned, David campese in the 1991 World Cup Australia vs New Zealand in Landsdowne Road. I was in the south terrace on a school boy ticket for about £5...when the haka was on he strolled down and started practicing kicks and throwing the ball over the bar, the haka went pretty much unnoticed as the crowd were cheering Campese which he seemed to enjoy. I also seemed to remember nobody really gave a shįte about it back then, it seems to have grown in stature since and somehow needs to be respected now which is odd. If you do have to endure it you should have the choice to do whatever you want during it, continuing to warm up or practice seems fair enough.


  • #209
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    Ireland also be entitled to have both Amhrán Na Bhfiann and Ireland's call played before a game also at the World Cup?

    I agree that you should be able to play two anthems if you wish any rules that state otherwise should be revised. But if Amhrán Na Bhfiann is to be played then shouldn't the second song be an anthem of NI's choosing rather than 'Irelands call'? Amhrán Na Bhfiann is specific to the Republic, so rather than the proposed second song being neutral, should it not be specific to NI?


  • #210
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    What galls me most about this thread is the comments about cultural relations in NZ and the complaints about 'enforced archaic cultural rituals'. New Zealand is far from perfect sure, but in all fairness Ireland is hardly a country that anyone would be looking to as good example on either issue!


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  • #211
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I agree that you should be able to play two anthems if you wish any rules that state otherwise should be revised. But if Amhrán Na Bhfiann is to be played then shouldn't the second song be an anthem of NI's choosing rather than 'Irelands call'? Amhrán Na Bhfiann is specific to the Republic, so rather than the proposed second song being neutral, should it not be specific to NI?

    It is supposedly specific to Northern Ireland and the republic, you are talking about two communities up there also. You can't just have a northern Irish only song as there is huge proportion of people up there who identify themselves as Irish and just not northern Irish or British.


  • #212
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    It is supposedly specific to Northern Ireland and the republic, you are talking about two communities up there also. You can't just have a northern Irish only song as there is huge proportion of people up there who identify themselves as Irish and just not northern Irish or British.

    Well then they are likely to identify with Amhrán Na Bhfiann aren't they? But it seems others do not, leading to the development of a 'neutral' song. Perhaps the two communities should come together to develop an Anthem that's specific to NI as a whole.


  • #213
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    What galls me most about this thread is the comments about cultural relations in NZ and the complaints about 'enforced archaic cultural rituals'. New Zealand is far from perfect sure, but in all fairness Ireland is hardly a country that anyone would be looking to as good example on either issue!

    It's an enforced cultural ritual in sport, which other teams are forced to obey and cannot object to or respond to.

    People who object to that aren't speaking for Ireland as a whole or have any power to single-handedly alter legislation in any examples you could care to mention; they're just offering their opinion.


  • #214
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Well then they are likely to identify with Amhrán Na Bhfiann aren't they? But it seems others do not, leading to the development of a 'neutral' song. Perhaps the two communities should come together to develop an Anthem that's specific to NI as a whole.

    That's what Ireland's Call is, or supposed to be. You might be a bit confused between the various groups of people thinking its a crap song or not and what it's supposed to represent irrespective of its crapness, but more so just from your questions and the points you are making I don't think think you have the foggiest idea about the history of the north or Ireland in general so it's probably best to give this one a wide berth.


  • #215
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    It's an enforced cultural ritual in sport, which other teams are forced to obey and cannot object to or respond to.

    People who object to that aren't speaking for Ireland as a whole or have any power to single-handedly alter legislation in any examples you could care to mention; they're just offering their opinion.

    As am I!


  • #216
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Mooning.


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  • #217
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    That's what Ireland's Call is, or supposed to be. You might be a bit confused between the various groups of people thinking its a crap song or not and what it's supposed to represent irrespective of its crapness, but more so just from your questions and the points you are making I don't think think you have the foggiest idea about the history of the north or Ireland in general so it's probably best to give this one a wide berth.

    The only reason I brought it up was due to posters in here who clearly don't 'have the foggiest idea' about cultural relations in NZ, making ignorant comments about it being inappropriate that NZers of European origin do the Haka.

    Amhrán Na Bhfiann = A song Rebuplicans identify with

    Ireland's Call = Neutral ground, to keep Republicans and Loyalists happy. Some think it's a crappy song, some republicans think it should not be played in lieu of Amhrán Na Bhfiann.

    I don't really see what playing both would achieve. It's probably better to stick to neutral ground when ROI and NI are being represented together.


  • #218
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    It's an enforced cultural ritual in sport, which other teams are forced to obey and cannot object to or respond to.
    This is the only thing that bothers me about it.

    NZ players can do what they like, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the fact that the opposition are limited in how they must behave is complete nonsense.


  • #219
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I agree that you should be able to play two anthems if you wish any rules that state otherwise should be revised. But if Amhrán Na Bhfiann is to be played then shouldn't the second song be an anthem of NI's choosing rather than 'Irelands call'? Amhrán Na Bhfiann is specific to the Republic, so rather than the proposed second song being neutral, should it not be specific to NI?

    Amhrán na Bhfiann is only played in Lansdowne road as a concession because of where it is. It won't be played this rugby World Cup. It isn't the anthem of the Irish rugby team. In Belfast maybe they would play God save the queen if Ireland ever played there.

    That said other teams don't necessarily play their national anthems. The national anthem of Wales and Scotland is also God save the Queen.

    You are right to get annoyed with the pseudo PC crap about the haka though. Richard Hillman, who started this thread off on that tangent even called NZ players middle class, middle aged and white. They are not guaranteed to be any of these (and none are middle aged). They can be working class and Maori, and always young.


  • #220
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    osarusan wrote: »
    This is the only thing that bothers me about it.

    NZ players can do what they like, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the fact that the opposition are limited in how they must behave is complete nonsense.

    I think it's grandfathered in. The IRB does allow opposition teams to come up with their own rituals or dances.

    Ack it does have psychological benefits but it's great spectacle.


  • #221
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    They are getting their excuses ready just in case; "They lost by 30 points in the quarter final because they were unsure how to 'respond' to the Haka". :D

    Personally I don't give a fiddlers about the Irish rugby team (ok, I'm a well wisher in-so-far as I don't wish them any particular harm, and that Tommy Bowe fella seems sound) so it's not sour grapes or whatever. In fact most of the people whom I've heard giving out about the haka irl aren't rugby fans, they tend to respect/like it.

    But yes you're right, the two anthems for Ireland is also ridiculous. No argument from me.


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  • #222
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    c_man wrote: »
    But yes you're right, the two anthems for Ireland is also ridiculous. No argument from me.

    What's the alternative?


  • #223
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    osarusan wrote: »
    This is the only thing that bothers me about it.

    NZ players can do what they like, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the fact that the opposition are limited in how they must behave is complete nonsense.
    They're not forced to. They are free to respond in whatever way they want.


  • #224
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I agree that you should be able to play two anthems if you wish any rules that state otherwise should be revised. But if Amhrán Na Bhfiann is to be played then shouldn't the second song be an anthem of NI's choosing rather than 'Irelands call'? Amhrán Na Bhfiann is specific to the Republic, so rather than the proposed second song being neutral, should it not be specific to NI?

    The song specific to NI, i.e. the national anthem, is God Save the Queen. I presume were the Irish team to play in the North, that could be played, although I'm not sure how wise that would be, given the politics up there.

    Ireland's Call is neutral and is played at all venues outside the Republic. And the Irish national anthem is played in the Republic. The way I see it, you have to hand it to the guys from the Unionist tradition in the North for standing there while the anthem of a foreign state is played for their team.

    Politics and sport...oh dear.


  • #225
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    katydid wrote: »
    They're not forced to. They are free to respond in whatever way they want.

    2011 world cup:
    France have been fined £2,500 for their performance of staged passive resistance to the Maori call-to-arms before Sunday's match. Faced with the standard puzzle of how to act during the minute and a half of designated pre-match haka France chose to link arms and advance to within 10 metres or so of their opponents. For this they have been deemed to be in breach of a recent regulation on acceptable ways to face down the All Black challenge.

    This has already been posted on thread, so I can't understand why you choose to miss the point.


  • #226
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    katydid wrote: »
    They're not forced to. They are free to respond in whatever way they want.

    The French were fined by the IRB in the 2011 World Cup final for advancing on the haka. So no they are not free to respond in whatever way they want.


  • #227
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    osarusan wrote: »
    2011 world cup:



    This has already been posted on thread, so I can't understand why you choose to miss the point.

    I didn't chose to miss any point, I didn't see this posted, or I wouldn't have posted what I did, duh...


  • #228
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    The French were fined by the IRB in the 2011 World Cup final for advancing on the haka. So no they are not free to respond in whatever way they want.
    Interesting. That's certainly not acceptable.


  • #229
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    The French were fined by the IRB in the 2011 World Cup final for advancing on the haka. So no they are not free to respond in whatever way they want.

    They can respond how they want. The rule is neither can advance past their own 10m line. What you do behind that line is up to you.

    Personally, I liked the French response. I like it when other teams give a "let's have it" type response. I believe some kiwi media person/journo actually paid the fine for the French team.


  • #230
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    They can respond how they want. The rule is neither can advance past their own 10m line. What you do behind that line is up to you.
    You can't respond how you want, as one of the most common responses is/was to advance on the NZ players as they do the Haka and get right in their faces.

    That is now something a team will be punished for, and have been punished for.


  • #231
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Try reading what I wrote again. Neither team can advance past their own 10m line. The All Blacks can't advance and neither can the opposition.

    If you want to link arms and advance, then start on the 22m and march forward to the 10m line. Simple.


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  • #232
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    One of the interesting things I read here was that you're not allowed "disrespect" the Haka. I also saw that there's a throat slitting gesture in one Haka. The hypocrisy is both mind boggling and obvious. A primitive war dance before a sporting event is ridiculous but including an obscenity like that gesture should lead to prosecution. Either let other teams respond as they see fit or level the playing field.


  • #233
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    They can respond how they want. The rule is neither can advance past their own 10m line. What you do behind that line is up to you.

    Personally, I liked the French response. I like it when other teams give a "let's have it" type response. I believe some kiwi media person/journo actually paid the fine for the French team.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057444314&page=3

    From a previous thread here, you can't do what you want behind the line, you left out the bit in the rule where the opposition must face the haka and remain behind the 10 meter line, that's hardly being permitted to do what you want behind the line. if you have to face it, you really can't do anything other than look at it.

    http://www.allblacks.com/News/14266/irb-confirms-haka-will-not-be-challenged

    The Australian Rugby Union (ARU) paid the fine, after it was revealed by a Sydney newspaper that there was a clause in the IRB tournament rules that dictated that teams must face the haka, and remain 10 metres on their own side of the halfway line    .


  • #234
    SNAKEDOC
    Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭SNAKEDOC


    Some would argue im sure that its an unfair tool given to the all blacks. Why cant ireland play both anthems at anything but a home game. New zealand and other nations with war dances get preferential treatmwnt in this regard. Ban it inless new zealand is on home soil


  • #235
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057444314&page=3

    From a previous thread here, you can't do what you want behind the line, you left out the bit in the rule where the opposition must face the haka and remain behind the 10 meter line, that's hardly being permitted to do what you want behind the line. if you have to face it, you really can't do anything other than look at it.

    http://www.allblacks.com/News/14266/irb-confirms-haka-will-not-be-challenged

    The Australian Rugby Union (ARU) paid the fine, after it was revealed by a Sydney newspaper that there was a clause in the IRB tournament rules that dictated that teams must face the haka, and remain 10 metres on their own side of the halfway line    .

    That article points out that other teams are welcome to come up with a response. So do that instead of whinging about the Haka. Even better, come up with a way to win the game.


  • #236
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    SNAKEDOC wrote: »
    Some would argue im sure that its an unfair tool given to the all blacks. Why cant ireland play both anthems at anything but a home game. New zealand and other nations with war dances get preferential treatmwnt in this regard. Ban it inless new zealand is on home soil
    The anthem issue has nothing to do with anyone else being allowed to do the Haka, the Hokey Cokey or anything else. It's a simple matter of respect for the members of the team from the North, for whom Amhrán na bFhiann is not their anthem. It would be equally unacceptable to pay God Save the Queen.


  • #237
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    but including an obscenity like that gesture should lead to prosecution. Either let other teams respond as they see fit or level the playing field.

    Prosecution??? Let's keep things in proportion here...

    Teams are allowed to respond as they see fit as long as both times respect the line marking limits.


  • #238
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    katydid wrote: »
    Prosecution??? Let's keep things in proportion here...

    Teams are allowed to respond as they see fit as long as both times respect the line marking limits.

    They can't do what they want. They must face it. If a team choose to ignore the haka they would be fined which is a total farce.


  • #239
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    They can't do what they want. They must face it. If a team choose to ignore the haka they would be fined which is a total farce.

    From what I understand, they must not cross over the line; that is the reason they would be fined.


  • #240
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    katydid wrote: »
    Prosecution??? Let's keep things in proportion here...

    Teams are allowed to respond as they see fit as long as both times respect the line marking limits.

    A proportionate Western European response to being on the receiving end of a throat slitting gesture is to hand it to the police.


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  • #241
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    I really don't care if they haka - actually, I lie a bit, I'd prefer them to keep the haka. It's a bit of performance, it's entertaining and it's a bit of actual passion in sport, which is pretty rare.

    I see no harm in it. I'm assuming that the French team crossed the 10m line, which is what they actually got done for.

    Do something in return - although don't go for deliberate rudeness. I don't think we could quite get away with dancing, but I dunno, a howl or something. Sure, it'll look demented the first time, but I bet the NZ team wandering out and starting to dance looked a bit insane the first time too.

    To whoever was complaining about the throat-slitting gesture being obscene, nah, I can't agree with that. At least, not any more than I'd agree that the lines in various national anthems are obscene or threatening, for example;

    No more our ancient sire land/Shall shelter the despot or the slave - Ireland, I wonder who they're talking about..?

    "We swear by the lightning that destroys, By the streams of generous blood being shed"
    "When we spoke, none listened to us, So we have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm, And the sound of machine guns as our melody" - Algeria

    Mercenary swords, they're feeble reeds. The Austrian eagle has already lost its plumes. The blood of Italy and the Polish blood it drank, along with the Cossack. But it burned its heart." - Italy, specifically having a go at Austria! Although they do follow up with the rather defeatest;

    “Let us join in the cohort
    We are ready to die!
    We are ready to die!"

    "Render your chest as armor and your body as trench!" - Turkey, being worrying and somewhat incomprehensible, but definitely threatening

    "Do you hear in the countryside, the roar of these savage soldiers, they come right into our arms, to cut the throats of your sons!" Hi France!

    "The path to glory is built by the bodies of our foes." - Vietnam, probably not offering a cup of tea.


    Nope, not too worried about a throat-slitting gesture in a Haka war dance.


  • #242
    Carlo Ancelotti
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 94 ✭✭Carlo Ancelotti


    15 elderly priests in wheelchairs shouting FECK OFF !!


  • #243
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Samaris wrote: »
    I really don't care if they haka - actually, I lie a bit, I'd prefer them to keep the haka. It's a bit of performance, it's entertaining and it's a bit of actual passion in sport, which is pretty rare.

    I see no harm in it. I'm assuming that the French team crossed the 10m line, which is what they actually got done for.

    Do something in return - although don't go for deliberate rudeness. I don't think we could quite get away with dancing, but I dunno, a howl or something. Sure, it'll look demented the first time, but I bet the NZ team wandering out and starting to dance looked a bit insane the first time too.

    To whoever was complaining about the throat-slitting gesture being obscene, nah, I can't agree with that. At least, not any more than I'd agree that the lines in various national anthems are obscene or threatening, for example;

    No more our ancient sire land/Shall shelter the despot or the slave - Ireland, I wonder who they're talking about..?

    "We swear by the lightning that destroys, By the streams of generous blood being shed"
    "When we spoke, none listened to us, So we have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm, And the sound of machine guns as our melody" - Algeria

    Mercenary swords, they're feeble reeds. The Austrian eagle has already lost its plumes. The blood of Italy and the Polish blood it drank, along with the Cossack. But it burned its heart." - Italy, specifically having a go at Austria! Although they do follow up with the rather defeatest;

    “Let us join in the cohort
    We are ready to die!
    We are ready to die!"

    "Render your chest as armor and your body as trench!" - Turkey, being worrying and somewhat incomprehensible, but definitely threatening

    "Do you hear in the countryside, the roar of these savage soldiers, they come right into our arms, to cut the throats of your sons!" Hi France!

    "The path to glory is built by the bodies of our foes." - Vietnam, probably not offering a cup of tea.


    Nope, not too worried about a throat-slitting gesture in a Haka war dance.

    Seeing as Iwas the poster immediately before this post it seems strange you couldn't just quote but each to their own. Great research into national anthems: note how the French one identifies throat slitters with invasion. Singing a song is a huge step away from being forced to face a group of men who make throat slitting gestures. Making such a gesture directly towards people is obscene. There should be no exemptions for rugby players.


  • #244
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    There must be a few Lederhosen left behind in the Aviva ... put them on, do this



  • #245
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Try reading what I wrote again. Neither team can advance past their own 10m line. The All Blacks can't advance and neither can the opposition.

    If you want to link arms and advance, then start on the 22m and march forward to the 10m line. Simple.

    Try reading what I wrote again - if there are rules which limit the opposition regarding what they are allowed to do, then they are (blatantly obviously) not allowed to do whatever they want.

    It is baffling that you can't understand what 'whatever you want' means.
    katydid wrote: »
    From what I understand, they must not cross over the line; that is the reason they would be fined.

    The problem is that you don't understand - you were unaware until this morning that they could be fined. You still managed to miss the link on the previous page highlighting how a team was fined for not facing the haka - another limitation on how they can behave during the haka.


  • #246
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Another example of why rugby is a load of oul cobblers, if it was gaelic the opposition would just start a digging match as soon the macarena nonsense was started


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  • #247
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Seeing as Iwas the poster immediately before this post it seems strange you couldn't just quote but each to their own. Great research into national anthems: note how the French one identifies throat slitters with invasion. Singing a song is a huge step away from being forced to face a group of men who make throat slitting gestures. Making such a gesture directly towards people is obscene. There should be no exemptions for rugby players.

    Oh, were you? I'd been skimming back and forth a bit and lost your post; didn't remember who it was. But look, I quoted this time! :D

    I don't really know that it is, to be honest. One is singing or verbally threatening your general foe without really meaning it, the other is a physical gesture as part of the dance to a general foe without really meaning it. One can argue that it is much more directed to the people in front of them, buuut...

    I dunno. I can compare it a bit to a middle finger during it, which I think would be rather more inappropriate. But that seems a fine line to draw. Alright, I take your point, I just draw the line in a slightly different place.


  • #248
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Samaris wrote: »
    Oh, were you? I'd been skimming back and forth a bit and lost your post; didn't remember who it was. But look, I quoted this time! :D

    I don't really know that it is, to be honest. One is singing or verbally threatening your general foe without really meaning it, the other is a physical gesture as part of the dance to a general foe without really meaning it. One can argue that it is much more directed to the people in front of them, buuut...

    I dunno. I can compare it a bit to a middle finger during it, which I think would be rather more inappropriate. But that seems a fine line to draw. Alright, I take your point, I just draw the line in a slightly different place.

    "Without really meaning it." If it's so meaningless why does it need protection in IRB rules. Personally I think it's a bizarre primitive ritual best answered with ridicule or if they're taking themselves seriously, arrest.


  • #249
    sonofenoch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    What they gonna do? Kick the ****e outta ya, its rare that NZ lose in rugby

    I could care less really, I never went to a private school.....like most everyone else I might watch rugby for the occasion bit like Wimbledon in the Summer but the truth be known I could give a toss for tennis or rugby


  • #250
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    osarusan wrote: »
    Try reading what I wrote again - if there are rules which limit the opposition regarding what they are allowed to do, then they are (blatantly obviously) not allowed to do whatever they want.

    It is baffling that you can't understand what 'whatever you want' means.



    The problem is that you don't understand - you were unaware until this morning that they could be fined. You still managed to miss the link on the previous page highlighting how a team was fined for not facing the haka - another limitation on how they can behave during the haka.

    Wow! Pedantic! The All Blacks can't advance past the 10m line and neither can the opposition. What part of that don't you understand. Behind those lines they can do whatever.

    They weren't fined for not facing the Haka. That is a lie. They were fined for advancing past the 10m line. Do you understand?


  • #251
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Behind those lines they can do whatever.
    Are teams allowed to huddle or do a warm-up while the Haka is being performed without being in trouble with the IRB?


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