The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Hammar · 03-03-2011 9:48pm #1

Breffni boardsies,check in.....

Hammer Archer · 05-03-2011 1:54pm

Well this is going well

cherrytaz · 05-03-2011 2:14pm

Exceedingly well

scoopmine · 07-03-2011 11:51am

Going really well cavan for sam!

blackbelt · 07-03-2011 12:00pm

This is so great that it is epic.

All we need now is for Lemlin to arrive between the months of May and June and this thread will take Boards by storm.;)

Browney7 · 08-03-2011 1:06am

Yeah was wondering where Lemlin has gotten to alright.

Hammar · 08-03-2011 8:56pm

This thread is going aswell as the Cavan Hurlers are....

Lemlin · 09-03-2011 12:06pm

blackbelt wrote: »

This is so great that it is epic.

All we need now is for Lemlin to arrive between the months of May and June and this thread will take Boards by storm.;)

Jesus Blackbelt, you have an awful fascination with me

And yes, why wouldn't I be back between May and June. Its when Cavan are in the championship and when I've a direct interest! I don't see alot of GAA happening at the moment to comment on to be honest.

As for Cavan GAA - my views at present.
I was happy to see Val Andrews come back. I thought he left with unfinished business in 2001 and he was the last manager to get us to an Ulster final. I also thought the appointment of Terry Hyland, a local man with good knowledge of local football who is known for not mixing his words, would work well.

However, happy as I am with the appointments, it's certainly clearer than ever that the quality needed in the panel just isn't there to work with. The trouncing by Offaly in the first game of the League was a bitter pill to swallow as we'd just gone well in the McKenna Cup in making it out of the Group stages.

The next League game is vital as it will definitely be the difference between pushing for promotion or fighting relegation. Cavan's aim has to be getting out of Division 3 but, at the moment, we just aren't good enough and it'll be a big turn around if we are in the mix for promotion.

A nice run in the qualifers would be good too but, at present, I'm pleased to see that the last remenants of the 1997 team have left the panel and that Andrews and Hyland can set about working on the team. I think they should be left there for 3 to five years to allow a complete overhaul of the whole county setup.

Now that I'm the first person who has actually given an opinion, maybe the thread will get rolling.

Torlac · 09-03-2011 4:18pm

As a Cavan man living in Cork it is rare that i get to see the beloved Breffni play, either live or on tv.
Media coverage outside the county is thin on the ground and even the Celt on-line edition gives little info.
I must agree I'm glad to see Val back after his lenghty absence.
As farr as the results go it's a long way from the buzz of '97.
I hope the county board let management get on with what is a massive rebuilding exercise and that as Lemlin says perhaps in 3 to 5 years we have a team to be proud of.
Anything would be better than the hiding we got by Cork last year !!

Lemlin · 09-03-2011 5:36pm

Torlac wrote: »

As a Cavan man living in Cork it is rare that i get to see the beloved Breffni play, either live or on tv.
Media coverage outside the county is thin on the ground and even the Celt on-line edition gives little info.
I must agree I'm glad to see Val back after his lenghty absence.
As farr as the results go it's a long way from the buzz of '97.
I hope the county board let management get on with what is a massive rebuilding exercise and that as Lemlin says perhaps in 3 to 5 years we have a team to be proud of.
Anything would be better than the hiding we got by Cork last year !!

There are a number of good young players coming through (Gearoid McKiernan, David Givney, Niall McKiernan) who look like they could make a difference and in Seanie Johnston we have a corner forward who can win any match given the service. Johnston is now 26 or 27 so he has a few years left yet.

A breakthrough is needed at U21 or minor level though. Reaching the Ulster U21 final last year was good but an Ulster title at one of these levels is needed. All too often Cavan have lost to an Armagh or Tyrone team narrowly at minor level only for that team to go on and win the AI. It always leaves you thinking what might have been.

Year after year, Cavan also perform well in the Hastings Cup and constantly beat most opposition in the minor league. For example, last year the Cavan minor team beat the likes of Dublin, Meath and Down in the league. The only team who beat them AFAIK was Armagh and that was by a point.

It's going to take a few years to build up a team though and, as stated, I hope Val and Terry are given the time.

scoopmine · 10-03-2011 3:01pm

I would like to see a game plan developing so that the last few years of get the ball to jelly and we will be grand stopped.. That is too easy to defend..
Hopefully u21s put in another good year..
Commitment players like keating watters in and working people not dropping off the panel half wat through eg cullivan etc
Coachs at underage have to be better..
Weights systems have to be put in the long term for players to compete in ulster...

Hammar · 10-03-2011 11:07pm

To be fair,when looking at underage success,a key factor is to look at what we have been up against in Ulster over the last 15 years.
On a number of occasions, we have been beaten by the eventual All Ireland champions very narrowly

2001 Derry Minors
Marty Clarkes Down Minor team
2008 Tyrone Minor team
These are 3 examples.,there are more.

Look at what that 2008 Tyrone Minor team done to Meath in the All Ireland Semi Final???
Ulster has been by far the strongest province at minor level
winning 7 out of the last 10 Minor All Irelands. Different years, we could have had the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country and still failed to pick up any silverware.

There is a core bunch of footballers on the Cavan panel whom are talented.
Outwith Miller and Jelly,whom we know are 2 of the best in the country.

Dermot Sheridan,Martin Cahill,Mark McKeever,Gunner,Michael H and Ronan Flanagan are talented players.
John McCutcheon,Michael Brennan,Alan Clarke and Nesty in particular have emerged in the last year or two as being more than capable at IC level.

Ray Cullivan and Cian Mackey have only shown their undoubted talents in glimpses at IC level.
Gerard Pierson is one of the most naturally talented footballers in the country,but has also just shown glimpses(His 10 point performance against Meath in Navan,for example)
Keith Fannin is something similar.

Barry Reily,Gearoid McKiernan and David Givney are going to be stars at IC level.

Now im not for one second claiming,we have the talent to be winning all-irelands regularly,but we have enough talent to get out of Division 3, and to start climbing the pecking order in Ulster,instead of battling it out with Fermanagh for the wooden spoon at the bottom.

Lemlin · 11-03-2011 10:01am

Hammar wrote: »

To be fair,when looking at underage success,a key factor is to look at what we have been up against in Ulster over the last 15 years.
On a number of occasions, we have been beaten by the eventual All Ireland champions very narrowly

2001 Derry Minors
Marty Clarkes Down Minor team
2008 Tyrone Minor team
These are 3 examples.,there are more.

Look at what that 2008 Tyrone Minor team done to Meath in the All Ireland Semi Final???
Ulster has been by far the strongest province at minor level
winning 7 out of the last 10 Minor All Irelands. Different years, we could have had the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country and still failed to pick up any silverware.

There is a core bunch of footballers on the Cavan panel whom are talented.
Outwith Miller and Jelly,whom we know are 2 of the best in the country.

Dermot Sheridan,Martin Cahill,Mark McKeever,Gunner,Michael H and Ronan Flanagan are talented players.
John McCutcheon,Michael Brennan,Alan Clarke and Nesty in particular have emerged in the last year or two as being more than capable at IC level.

Ray Cullivan and Cian Mackey have only shown their undoubted talents in glimpses at IC level.
Gerard Pierson is one of the most naturally talented footballers in the country,but has also just shown glimpses(His 10 point performance against Meath in Navan,for example)
Keith Fannin is something similar.

Barry Reily,Gearoid McKiernan and David Givney are going to be stars at IC level.

Now im not for one second claiming,we have the talent to be winning all-irelands regularly,but we have enough talent to get out of Division 3, and to start climbing the pecking order in Ulster,instead of battling it out with Fermanagh for the wooden spoon at the bottom.

I'd have to disagree Hammar. I think alot of the Cavan football panel are overrated and there's a big problem with the standard or football in the county. For example, Kingscourt won the senior county championship last year. How did they fare in Ulster?

Cavan Gaels won the senior championship for a number of years and failed to make any headway in Ulster, at a time when they had several of the county starting team, as well as other players who would have made the county team but weren't interested.

I made the point myself about Cavan being narrowly beaten by eventual All-Ireland champions. For example, in 2005 the Cavan U21 team got to the Ulster final and ran Down close. Down then went on to win the All-Ireland. That was a year I thought we were really in with a chance.

However, it's telling of Cavan football. Great losses where we should have performed better. Just look at the Armagh game in 2004 or the Tyrone drawn game in 2005. Either of those could have been wins but IMO from underage level our players hadn't the conviction to get ahead and close the match out.

Success is needed at underage level to get our players used to winning.

Hammar · 14-03-2011 6:12am

Defeat to Limerick yesterday.
0-10-0-5 down and a great comeback until Stephen Jordans sending off virtually took the wind out of our sales,when it was level at 1-11 to 0-14.
We need to do something about all these sendings offs. Jordan got gate against Tyrone in the McKenna Cup earlier on,and you have to feel some sympathy for him,as he is not an IC corner back,and has never played there for Lavey, for whom he lines out at Centre Field or in the half forward line The selection of Alan Clarke,probably our best option at CHB in the corner is another ridiculous decision.
The appearance of Michael Lyng,and Eugene Keating are good signs however.

15 points really should win you a game in the National Football League.

celt262 · 14-03-2011 1:37pm

Hammar wrote: »

To be fair,when looking at underage success,a key factor is to look at what we have been up against in Ulster over the last 15 years.
On a number of occasions, we have been beaten by the eventual All Ireland champions very narrowly

2001 Derry Minors
Marty Clarkes Down Minor team
2008 Tyrone Minor team
These are 3 examples.,there are more.

Look at what that 2008 Tyrone Minor team done to Meath in the All Ireland Semi Final???
Ulster has been by far the strongest province at minor level
winning 7 out of the last 10 Minor All Irelands. Different years, we could have had the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country and still failed to pick up any silverware.

There is a core bunch of footballers on the Cavan panel whom are talented.
Outwith Miller and Jelly,whom we know are 2 of the best in the country.

Dermot Sheridan,Martin Cahill,Mark McKeever,Gunner,Michael H and Ronan Flanagan are talented players.
John McCutcheon,Michael Brennan,Alan Clarke and Nesty in particular have emerged in the last year or two as being more than capable at IC level.

Ray Cullivan and Cian Mackey have only shown their undoubted talents in glimpses at IC level.
Gerard Pierson is one of the most naturally talented footballers in the country,but has also just shown glimpses(His 10 point performance against Meath in Navan,for example)
Keith Fannin is something similar.

Barry Reily,Gearoid McKiernan and David Givney are going to be stars at IC level.

Now im not for one second claiming,we have the talent to be winning all-irelands regularly,but we have enough talent to get out of Division 3, and to start climbing the pecking order in Ulster,instead of battling it out with Fermanagh for the wooden spoon at the bottom.

I would disagree with that also.

Barry Reily,Gearoid McKiernan and David Givney are going to be stars at IC level.

They are good footballs but to say that they are going to be stars is wrong as none of them have done nothing at IC level as yet.

There is a core bunch of footballers on the Cavan panel whom are talented.
Outwith Miller and Jelly,whom we know are 2 of the best in the country.

Jelly does not seem to do it when he is needed and apart form the Wicklow game last year has not done much in Championship games.

Club football in Cavan is poor and the best club players are not making it at IC Level.

Lemlin · 14-03-2011 2:28pm

Hammar wrote: »

Defeat to Limerick yesterday.
0-10-0-5 down and a great comeback until Stephen Jordans sending off virtually took the wind out of our sales,when it was level at 1-11 to 0-14.
We need to do something about all these sendings offs. Jordan got gate against Tyrone in the McKenna Cup earlier on,and you have to feel some sympathy for him,as he is not an IC corner back,and has never played there for Lavey, for whom he lines out at Centre Field or in the half forward line The selection of Alan Clarke,probably our best option at CHB in the corner is another ridiculous decision.
The appearance of Michael Lyng,and Eugene Keating are good signs however.

15 points really should win you a game in the National Football League.

Had Limerick not lost all of their games before yesterday too? Cavan are looking more like candidates for relegation than promotion at this stage.

As for Stephen, he's never played in the backline for Lavey as you say so not sure why Terry and Val decided to put him there but it looks like it's because they haven't a recognised corner back who's better.

The League campaign has been a poor one though. Plenty of work needed and I'd agree with Celt262 above that enough players aren't cutting it at IC level.

The lack of quality in Cavan football in general is also a problem. I often attend Meath club matches and I find that some of their intermediate teams would easily match some of our senior sides. The football up there just seems to be of a higher standard.

blackbelt · 14-03-2011 4:58pm

There is a lot of debate on the Kilkenny football thread about weaker hurling counties and Cavan is a county that keeps cropping up.

What are the views of Cavan fans about the intercounty hurling team,the county board structures for development and the weekly thrashings they are receiving?Also can Cavan fans provide insight into the proposal to disband the hurling team?

bruschi · 14-03-2011 5:29pm

blackbelt wrote: »

There is a lot of debate on the Kilkenny football thread about weaker hurling counties and Cavan is a county that keeps cropping up.

What are the views of Cavan fans about the intercounty hurling team,the county board structures for development and the weekly thrashings they are receiving?Also can Cavan fans provide insight into the proposal to disband the hurling team?

might be a case not just on Cavan though, but for a lot of counties who dont put the same level of interest into hurling. Liam Griffin came out against the Ulster counties who opposed changing rule 42, but did nothing to promote hurling. he saw the irony in that.

Martin567 · 14-03-2011 5:40pm

blackbelt wrote: »

There is a lot of debate on the Kilkenny football thread about weaker hurling counties and Cavan is a county that keeps cropping up.

What are the views of Cavan fans about the intercounty hurling team,the county board structures for development and the weekly thrashings they are receiving?Also can Cavan fans provide insight into the proposal to disband the hurling team?

I don't know the circumstances but it is the case that the Cavan hurlers are losing by phenomenal scorelines against teams which themselves would not be very strong, certainly immeasurably weaker than all the Div 4 football teams apart from Kilkenny. How is this happening?

Crash Bang Wall · 14-03-2011 8:30pm

There are many problems in Cavan football.

The standard at Championship level on the club scene is very poor, the Gaels have very little competition, skill levels are poor.

The players when they reach county level are happy with that. Happy to be in possession of a county jersey and not interested in much more. Ive seen guys on the morning of Ulster Championship matches worrying about what clothes to wear out that night!!!

The drinking Culture is a joke, 2 day sessions after matches is a joke after a Championship match, win lose or draw. The players who have talent are arrogant and are of the opinion they know it all.

I could say more but I wont. Please feel free to comment agree/disagree

Hammar · 14-03-2011 11:27pm

blackbelt wrote: »

There is a lot of debate on the Kilkenny football thread about weaker hurling counties and Cavan is a county that keeps cropping up.

What are the views of Cavan fans about the intercounty hurling team,the county board structures for development and the weekly thrashings they are receiving?Also can Cavan fans provide insight into the proposal to disband the hurling team?

Blackbelt,i commented about the Cavan hurlers situation on that Kilkenny Footballer thread,
The reason they are so poor this year,is due to them missing a fair few of their best players,many of whom are disillusioned with what was going on within the set-up and certain members of the county board airing views over disbanding the team,didnt help an already precarious situation. Cavan would have a very small Hurling pick as it is,,so taking away some of their best players would have the disasterous effects, we are seeing in the 2011 NHL .If you look at Cavans performances over the last few years,they have won multiple games, in 2010 we beat South Down and Layyytrum ,and lost narrowly against the rest(except for Monaghan who gave us a trimming)
Yourself excluded, as at least you had the decency to ask about the situation,some of those having a go at the Cavan Hurlers on that thread, might want to look at the improvements they have made over the last few years(2011 excluded obviously), and find out about what is going on behind the scenes before they start their mud-slinging.

There is work going on at underage level,with Cootehill,Baileborough,Kingscourt,Ramor/Munterconnacht and more, all having established underage teams(under 8/under 10) and putting in the work.
Its going to be 10/12 years im afraid before we will see the benefits.

Hammar · 14-03-2011 11:35pm

Lemlin,Celt262
id agree with many of your points,and maybe im a bit too optimistic about the current situation in Cavan football.
I was reading the Cavan GAABoard thread,and there was a comment from a Limerick view that
"The Cavan defence was, by far, the most porous Limerick have come up against this year".
What do ye reckon the solution is??

Martin Cahill Dermot Sheridan ??????

John McCutcheon Alan Clarke Mark McKeever/Ronan Flanagan

When you take Gunner and Michael H out of the equation,we are short of options big time.

ShamoBuc · 15-03-2011 12:38am

Hammar wrote: »

Blackbelt,i commented about the Cavan hurlers situation on that Kilkenny Footballer thread,
The reason they are so poor this year,is due to them missing a fair few of their best players,many of whom are disillusioned with what was going on within the set-up and certain members of the county board airing views over disbanding the team,didnt help an already precarious situation. Cavan would have a very small Hurling pick as it is,,so taking away some of their best players would have the disasterous effects, we are seeing in the 2011 NHL .If you look at Cavans performances over the last few years,they have won multiple games, in 2010 we beat South Down and Layyytrum ,and lost narrowly against the rest(except for Monaghan who gave us a trimming)
Yourself excluded, as at least you had the decency to ask about the situation,some of those having a go at the Cavan Hurlers on that thread, might want to look at the improvements they have made over the last few years(2011 excluded obviously), and find out about what is going on behind the scenes before they start their mud-slinging.

There is work going on at underage level,with Cootehill,Baileborough,Kingscourt,Ramor/Munterconnacht and more, all having established underage teams(under 8/under 10) and putting in the work.
Its going to be 10/12 years im afraid before we will see the benefits.

I can see how missing a few of the top players in a relatively small pond would cause the problems, but what I don't understand is why some members of the board were airing views of disbanding. They were doing ok upto this year. Were there a few dual stars and they wanted to make the decision for them? A tad confused by that.

eroo · 15-03-2011 1:06am

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

The players who have talent are arrogant and are of the opinion they know it all.

Not that I pretend to know anything about Cavan football.. but I had the.. experience.. of a certain Cavan footballer a few times. He fitted your description and more.

Cavan football needs to forget about past glories and start all over imo.

Hammar · 15-03-2011 1:09am

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I can see how missing a few of the top players in a relatively small pond would cause the problems, but what I don't understand is why some members of the board were airing views of disbanding. They were doing ok upto this year. Were there a few dual stars and they wanted to make the decision for them? A tad confused by that.

To tell you the truth,its actually more than a few of their best players,that they are without,i only recognise about 3/4 names on the team that were annihilated against Longford at the weekend,all the best players from the last few years dont seem to be involved.
I dont know the reasons behind those members airing their views over the disbanding of the team,they were calling for the money set aside for the senior hurlers set-up to be put entirely into the underage set-up. Those members obviously dont understand that you can have a senior team aswell as promote and improve the underage structures :rolleyes:

With regards to dual players,Supposedly there were problems with some of the Mullahoran players training with their Senior Footballers instead of the county hurlers and this caused ruptions with other players as training attendances were poor at times last year. Seeing as Mullahoran backbone the side,its easy to see how problems and arguments arose.

poemboy · 15-03-2011 1:19am

Does anyone agree that the demise of St.Pat`s,Cavan as a major footballing school has had an effect on the current standard of the blues?

Hammar · 15-03-2011 1:25am

poemboy wrote: »

Does anyone agree that the demise of St.Pat`s,Cavan as a major footballing school has had an effect on the current standard of the blues?

Agree 100%
Although the new introduction of the transitition year,hopefully will close that 1 year age disadvantage that St Pats have at McRory level.
They have always been competitive at Dalton/Corn Na Nog/Brock and Rannafast,Its just the McRory and the age gap,that has always been the problem.
They won the Dalton in 2010 and the same team finished runners up to Omagh CBS in the Corn na Nog a few weeks ago,so hopefully we will see this team and others coming through to compete with Ulsters elite at McRory in a few years time.

KeepTheFaith · 15-03-2011 1:36am

celt262 wrote: »

I would disagree with that also.

They are good footballs but to say that they are going to be stars is wrong as none of them have done nothing at IC level as yet.

Jelly does not seem to do it when he is needed and apart form the Wicklow game last year has not done much in Championship games.

Club football in Cavan is poor and the best club players are not making it at IC Level.

I'm sorry but the point on Jelly never doing it when we needed him is just plain incorrect. He did it almost alone against Wicklow last year, the year before he played a stormer in the first round against Fermanagh and was double marked against Antrim, the year before that he destroyed Antrim in the preliminary round in Casement single handedly and was, along with Big Dermot and James Reilly, one of the best performers against Armagh. In the 2007 League he was responsible for something like 70% of our scores.. Johnston is petulant and sometimes selfish but he is our only quality consistent forward who would make any team in Ireland.

The huge problem is our defence.. The forwards against Limerick twice pulled Cavan back into the game after poor defensive play, coming back to level after halftime and again after the first goal. Cavan need to sharpen up at the back. Tactics can't be right if Limerick can walk through unchallenged, they could have had 5 goals. If the individual talent to man mark isn't there then the management need to introduce a system to consolidate the defensive weaknesses. Defend in numbers or employ a sweeper.

Lemlin · 15-03-2011 11:03am

blackbelt wrote: »

There is a lot of debate on the Kilkenny football thread about weaker hurling counties and Cavan is a county that keeps cropping up.

What are the views of Cavan fans about the intercounty hurling team,the county board structures for development and the weekly thrashings they are receiving?Also can Cavan fans provide insight into the proposal to disband the hurling team?

I'll be honest, I know nothing about hurling and I have no wish to know anything about Cavan hurling. Like alot of Cavan people, I've no interest in the sport and, to be honest, I don't see the point of having a hurling team either. I'd watch the odd game on television but wouldn't go out of my way to make sure I see it.

There are something like 2 or maybe 3 hurling clubs in the whole of Cavan. Cavan is a county of only 64,000 people. Only Leitrim, Sligo, Roscommon, Monaghan and Longford have a lower population. Have you seen any of them exceed at hurling?

The population just isn't there to support two sports in counties like Cavan. The GAA should focus on getting hurling going in counties like Meath where only one sport is strong despite a population of 160,000 people.

Also, because population is low, alot of teams struggle to field 15 players at some levels in football. I've often seen lads playing minor, U21 and senior football or U10, U12 or U14 for example. Do you think these lads have time for all these training sessions, matches and then hurling as well? It'd lead to total burnout and burnout is a big problem in Cavan as it is.

Lemlin · 15-03-2011 11:07am

poemboy wrote: »

Does anyone agree that the demise of St.Pat`s,Cavan as a major footballing school has had an effect on the current standard of the blues?

I'm not sure it has. St Pat's has dropped off but Virginia has become a force at schools level. The U14 team won the Ulster schools championship at their grade last week and they won a couple of all-irelands there a few years back.

celt262 · 15-03-2011 2:02pm

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

The huge problem is our defence.. The forwards against Limerick twice pulled Cavan back into the game after poor defensive play, coming back to level after halftime and again after the first goal. Cavan need to sharpen up at the back. Tactics can't be right if Limerick can walk through unchallenged, they could have had 5 goals. If the individual talent to man mark isn't there then the management need to introduce a system to consolidate the defensive weaknesses. Defend in numbers or employ a sweeper.

Point taken on Jelly prob expect to much from him and his good games out number his bad ones.

On the defence i think alot of the pressure that they find themselves under is coming from forwards not tracking back and being alert when the opposition have the ball. In the Waterford game they drove up the field in numbers time after time 3 or 4 of them and not a Cavan man within 20 yards of them. Im not sure if this was the case in the Limerick game but reports would seem to sugest it was. I think that this is an area that needs to be worked on.

Anyway is anyone heading to the U-21 game tomorrow night?

Lemlin · 15-03-2011 3:17pm

Hammar wrote: »

Lemlin,Celt262
id agree with many of your points,and maybe im a bit too optimistic about the current situation in Cavan football.
I was reading the Cavan GAABoard thread,and there was a comment from a Limerick view that
"The Cavan defence was, by far, the most porous Limerick have come up against this year".
What do ye reckon the solution is??

Martin Cahill Dermot Sheridan ??????

John McCutcheon Alan Clarke Mark McKeever/Ronan Flanagan

When you take Gunner and Michael H out of the equation,we are short of options big time.

I can only think that there is a dearth of talent in the county. For example, its been years since we've had a decent full back despite trying a whole host of players out in the position.

I think it does speak volumes though when Val and Terry are asking a player who's never played in the backline for his club in his life (Stephen Jordan) to try and do a job back there.

Has anyone any suggestion of people they'd like to see tried? I can never understand why Darren Smith from Lavey has not been given at least a chance at IC level.

Lemlin · 21-03-2011 11:08am

Another poor result again yesterday. I actually think we're kidding ourselves and believing the hype if we think this panel are fit for Division 3 football. I only caught the news last night and realised that teams like Fermanagh and Roscommon are in Division 4. We'd struggle to beat those.

What's the deal with home and away games as well? AFAIK Cavan have only played one home game so far, against Waterford. How can this be?

Torlac · 21-03-2011 11:48am

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm not sure it has. St Pat's has dropped off but Virginia has become a force at schools level. The U14 team won the Ulster schools championship at their grade last week and they won a couple of all-irelands there a few years back.

To be fair its only recently St.Pats have looked anything like the teams of old. When i was there we didn't have any particularly strong teams and never got too far in any grades. And a few years later the Senior county team was going through its best phase in recent times. Senior players came from the vocational schools who had success at national level.

The main difference was the club championship back then was way more competitive. The Geals, Bailieboro, Mullahoran and Gowna had some great battles and took most of the county positions between them.

Like i said before i've been away from the scene for a while now so i can't comment on club status currently but any time i come back it seems the interest is not as intense as it used to be.

DB10 · 21-03-2011 5:38pm

Tbh there is still great interest and support, but I think it's untapped or hidden away until June these days.

I still think Cavan would be in the top 5 counties for support and passion about gaelic football in Ireland. The only problem is the would be the worst footballers in those 5.

Lets be honest it's been years since they've done anything of note, last time we looked like getting to an Ulster final we lost to flipping Antrim. Now they are probably reckoned to be better than us. Sad state of affairs.

If we are ever rise again, we have some amount of support anyway. Mind you I havent been to a league game in years, I have no interest in it really, if it's not taken seriously by the teams and county boards why should we go out of pocket to see it.

Lemlin · 23-03-2011 11:29am

DB10 wrote: »

Tbh there is still great interest and support, but I think it's untapped or hidden away until June these days.

I still think Cavan would be in the top 5 counties for support and passion about gaelic football in Ireland. The only problem is the would be the worst footballers in those 5.

Lets be honest it's been years since they've done anything of note, last time we looked like getting to an Ulster final we lost to flipping Antrim. Now they are probably reckoned to be better than us. Sad state of affairs.

If we are ever rise again, we have some amount of support anyway. Mind you I havent been to a league game in years, I have no interest in it really, if it's not taken seriously by the teams and county boards why should we go out of pocket to see it.

Being in Ulster is a big problem for Cavan at both underage and senior level. We're the worst team in Ulster at senior level and have been for the past couple of seasons. The win against Fermanagh in 2009 seems to have been nothing more than a fluke result.

If we were in Leinster, where football is far weaker and there are a good few weak counties, then our chances would be much stronger at all levels.

blackbelt · 23-03-2011 2:09pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Being in Ulster is a big problem for Cavan at both underage and senior level. We're the worst team in Ulster at senior level and have been for the past couple of seasons. The win against Fermanagh in 2009 seems to have been nothing more than a fluke result.

If we were in Leinster, where football is far weaker and there are a good few weak counties, then our chances would be much stronger at all levels.

But in Leinster,how far do you think you could go?Cavan would be expected to beat the likes of Wicklow,Carlow and possibly Longford and be on par with Offaly,Westmeath.I think you are behind the likes of Wexford,Louth,Laois.While Leinsters top three ie Kildare,Meath and Dublin would comfortably win.

No guarantee that you'd progress too much further but certainly you'd get more competitive games.

Lemlin · 23-03-2011 4:58pm

blackbelt wrote: »

But in Leinster,how far do you think you could go?Cavan would be expected to beat the likes of Wicklow,Carlow and possibly Longford and be on par with Offaly,Westmeath.I think you are behind the likes of Wexford,Louth,Laois.While Leinsters top three ie Kildare,Meath and Dublin would comfortably win.

No guarantee that you'd progress too much further but certainly you'd get more competitive games.

Well, while I admit I don't rate the National Football league a hell of a lot in terms of results, I do think that a team's position in it generally reflects their ability e.g. Division 1 and 2 are definitely the top tier of footballing teams in the country while 3 and 4 are the lower tier.

Therefore, if you compare Ulster and Leinster in terms of the Football League:

Ulster is a province of 9 counties - 3 of these are in Division 1 of the National League (Armagh, Monaghan & Down). 4 are in Division 2 (Donegal, Tyrone, Derry & Antrim). 1 is in Division 3 (Cavan) and 1 is in Division 4 (Fermanagh).
Leinster is a province of 12 footballing counties - only 1 of these is in Division 1 (Dublin). 3 are in Division 2 (Kildare, Laois & Meath). 4 are in Division 3 (Wexford, Offaly, Louth & Westmeath). 4 are in Division 4 (Wicklow, Longford, Carlow & Kilkenny).

Nearly 80% of Ulster teams would be seen as being in the counrty's top tier of footballing sides.
Only 33% of Leinster teams would be seen as being in the country's top tier of footballing sides.

I'd agree with your point that Kildare, Meath or Dublin would beat Cavan comfortably. I'd also expect Laois (the other team in the top tier as per the National football league rankings) to beat Cavan. However, that still leaves 8 other counties that I think Cavan could beat on their day if they were in Leinster. As opposed to there being 7 of Ulster's 9 counties in the top 2 leagues of the NFL.

Of course there is no guarantee as you say but there would be a far higher chance of Cavan progressing with 8 other weak teams in their draw as opposed to one.

Being in Ulster is also a huge factor at underage level. Just look at the last decade of minor All-Irelands:

2010: Tyrone
2009: Armagh
2008: Tyrone
2005: Down
2004: Tyrone
2002: Derry
2001: Tyrone

7 of the last ten minor All-Irelands have been won by Ulster teams. If that doesn't show the level of competition in the province at underage level, then I don't know what does.

DB10 · 23-03-2011 5:55pm

We're better than Fermanagh though. They're gone to ****e, only 3 players from the starting team that beat us last year still on their panel....:eek:

Most have quit due to poor management and treatment, the last I heard they lost a league game in the last minute when some guy missed a 14 yard free...:eek:

They are probably the worst team about in Ulster now and in IC bar London and Kilkenny.

DB10 · 23-03-2011 10:56pm

Beat Donegal in U21 semi final 12 - 1-04

Revenge for last years final....:D

Lemlin · 24-03-2011 10:11am

DB10 wrote: »

Beat Donegal in U21 semi final 12 - 1-04

Revenge for last years final....:D

Fantastic result last night all right. It'd be unbelievable if Cavan could win an U21 Ulster championship. Success is needed at underage level.

Match report:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/ulster-u21-championship-cavan-012-donegal-14-15124172.html

celt262 · 24-03-2011 10:42am

Was a good team performance.

bruschi · 24-03-2011 10:58am

Lemlin wrote: »

Well, while I admit I don't rate the National Football league a hell of a lot in terms of results, I do think that a team's position in it generally reflects their ability e.g. Division 1 and 2 are definitely the top tier of footballing teams in the country while 3 and 4 are the lower tier.

Therefore, if you compare Ulster and Leinster in terms of the Football League:

Ulster is a province of 9 counties - 3 of these are in Division 1 of the National League (Armagh, Monaghan & Down). 4 are in Division 2 (Donegal, Tyrone, Derry & Antrim). 1 is in Division 3 (Cavan) and 1 is in Division 4 (Fermanagh).
Leinster is a province of 12 footballing counties - only 1 of these is in Division 1 (Dublin). 3 are in Division 2 (Kildare, Laois & Meath). 4 are in Division 3 (Wexford, Offaly, Louth & Westmeath). 4 are in Division 4 (Wicklow, Longford, Carlow & Kilkenny).

Nearly 80% of Ulster teams would be seen as being in the counrty's top tier of footballing sides.
Only 33% of Leinster teams would be seen as being in the country's top tier of footballing sides.

I'd agree with your point that Kildare, Meath or Dublin would beat Cavan comfortably. I'd also expect Laois (the other team in the top tier as per the National football league rankings) to beat Cavan. However, that still leaves 8 other counties that I think Cavan could beat on their day if they were in Leinster. As opposed to there being 7 of Ulster's 9 counties in the top 2 leagues of the NFL.

Of course there is no guarantee as you say but there would be a far higher chance of Cavan progressing with 8 other weak teams in their draw as opposed to one.

Being in Ulster is also a huge factor at underage level. Just look at the last decade of minor All-Irelands:

2010: Tyrone
2009: Armagh
2008: Tyrone
2005: Down
2004: Tyrone
2002: Derry
2001: Tyrone

7 of the last ten minor All-Irelands have been won by Ulster teams. If that doesn't show the level of competition in the province at underage level, then I don't know what does.

Ulster is definitley a stronger province, and the top teams tehre are far higher than the top teams in Leinster. But I think you under rate Cavans position within that, and even going by your stats on league positions, that will change this season with 2 Leinster counties going up from Div 3 and Antrim going the opposite way. It realistically is the 4 sides in Division 4 rather than the 8 you would think of, as I would rate Westmeath, Louth, Offaly and Wexford ahead of Cavan.

Congrats on the U21 win though, it is great to see progress in some underage at least.

Lemlin · 24-03-2011 1:02pm

bruschi wrote: »

Ulster is definitley a stronger province, and the top teams tehre are far higher than the top teams in Leinster. But I think you under rate Cavans position within that, and even going by your stats on league positions, that will change this season with 2 Leinster counties going up from Div 3 and Antrim going the opposite way. It realistically is the 4 sides in Division 4 rather than the 8 you would think of, as I would rate Westmeath, Louth, Offaly and Wexford ahead of Cavan.

Congrats on the U21 win though, it is great to see progress in some underage at least.

Do you mean to say I overrate their position? You stated underrate but I think its overrate you mean.
The league isn't over yet so I'd prefer to go on this year's standings. There are still 3 more games to go and all leagues are tight so anything could change.
For example, you say Antrim are about to go out of Division 2 yet they are only 1 point below Sligo who could go down instead. You also fail to mention that Meath are bottom of Division 2, meaning there is just as much chance of a Leinster side leaving Division 2 as an Ulster side.

As for the 4 teams rather than 8, I do think Cavan are capable of beating any of those four sides you've named on their day. Now, while I am admitting I don't put alot of thought into National league results in general, Cavan beat Offaly and Wexford last year. They also drew with Westmeath this year in Westmeath. The games in the League have all been very tight this year, with Cavan playing away from home in all games, showing IMO that, as I stated, Cavan are capable of matching any of those 8 sides on their day.

In relation to the U21 progress, none has been made so far. Cavan reached the Ulster final last year so need to move forward now and win it.

bruschi · 24-03-2011 1:48pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Do you mean to say I overrate their position? You stated underrate but I think its overrate you mean.
The league isn't over yet so I'd prefer to go on this year's standings. There are still 3 more games to go and all leagues are tight so anything could change.
For example, you say Antrim are about to go out of Division 2 yet they are only 1 point below Sligo who could go down instead. You also fail to mention that Meath are bottom of Division 2, meaning there is just as much chance of a Leinster side leaving Division 2 as an Ulster side.

As for the 4 teams rather than 8, I do think Cavan are capable of beating any of those four sides you've named on their day. Now, while I am admitting I don't put alot of thought into National league results in general, Cavan beat Offaly and Wexford last year. They also drew with Westmeath this year in Westmeath. The games in the League have all been very tight this year, with Cavan playing away from home in all games, showing IMO that, as I stated, Cavan are capable of matching any of those 8 sides on their day.

In relation to the U21 progress, none has been made so far. Cavan reached the Ulster final last year so need to move forward now and win it.

yeah sorry, over rate. as you say though, regardless of who is up and down in the league, its not the best of barometers. Just ask Roscommon. I just think Cavan have been on the slide for a while now, whilst in a tough province, they havent made the progress of the likes of Antrim, and even Fermanagh were making great strides and they have gone to dirt now. As much as you feel Cavan could match sides in Leinster, the same can also be said for teams in Ulster. I wouldnt be fearful of Antrim fermanagh, Donegal, and even Derry are hit and miss and I'm sure you would relish a shot at Monaghan too, despite them having much better form. Its just Tyrone, Down, Armagh set the standards and have kept to a high level, and even Armagh have had blips too.

as for the U21, getting back to a final is an achievement in itself. How many of last years finalists have made it back?

celt262 · 24-03-2011 4:13pm

bruschi wrote: »

as for the U21, getting back to a final is an achievement in itself. How many of last years finalists have made it back?

I think there are 9 on the panel.

Hammar · 24-03-2011 7:03pm

Great win last night,after a disasterous weekend for the seniors,whereby every one of our relegation rivals won and we lost.
The team that wanted to play football won in the end,we coped well after the first quarter of an hour with Donegals negative 13 man behind the ball tactics.
It was a great team effort by all involved.
Kevin Meehan was very good, as was,Michael Brady, Gearoid McKiernan,Barry Reily,Jack Brady and Niall McDermott,but in truth,they all deserve credit.
Its good to have some positive posts on this thread for once

ShamoBuc · 24-03-2011 10:21pm

Hammar wrote: »

Great win last night,after a disasterous weekend for the seniors,whereby every one of our relegation rivals won and we lost.
The team that wanted to play football won in the end,we coped well after the first quarter of an hour with Donegals negative 13 man behind the ball tactics.
It was a great team effort by all involved.
Kevin Meehan was very good, as was,Michael Brady, Gearoid McKiernan,Barry Reily,Jack Brady and Niall McDermott,but in truth,they all deserve credit.
Its good to have some positive posts on this thread for once

A win like that certainly makes it easier to post in here I would say. Hope they can continue it.

Torlac · 29-03-2011 1:36pm

who have the u-21's got next?

Crash Bang Wall · 30-03-2011 11:01am

Tyrone play Down in a replay, the winner has Monaghan I think in the semis.

Final provisionally set for this night 2 weeks, although no venue has been announced

Lemlin · 31-03-2011 9:54am

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Tyrone play Down in a replay, the winner has Monaghan I think in the semis.

Final provisionally set for this night 2 weeks, although no venue has been announced

Tyrone won at the third attempt last night.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/12918407.stm

Tyrone play Monaghan next Wednesday. I'm expecting a Tyrone/Cavan final and a very tough game for Cavan.

This Tyrone team are well drilled and used to very big games. They were minor All-Ireland champions in 2008 and 2010. The Cavan panel has no experience like that.

Tyrone went six points behind last night and still had the experience to come back.

There seems to be a big push to get people to the Louth game at the weekend. First time ever I've seen a big flashing sign on the N3 advertising a League game.

The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

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