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Saorsat technical changes - 1st July 2020

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  • 23-06-2020 7:33pm
    #1
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭


    Just noticed some on screen messages on the saorsat feeds with a change of technical parameters on July 1st.

    The changes from 6AM on July 1st will be:

    Freq: 20192.500 MHz (20190. MHz)
    Symbol Rate: 12.500 (25000)
    FEC: 5/6 (2/3).

    (current settings in brackets).

    There is an MHEG screen on Ch 20 detailing the changes.


«13

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    #2
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Thread here on it from a few days ago - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058088564


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    #3
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I suspect this is penny-pinching because UPC (who only rent the Virgin Brand) are not on Saorsat. It's a failure of licence regulation.
    It's a total pig to retune "other channels" on Humax HDR1010s, secret menu for Diseqc and you have to rescan. Which is a failure of the Freesat rules, making UK boxes ghettoised. Most Freesat can't do non-Freesat at all, but generally it's the only way to get Interactive MHEG.

    My Ka LNBF is on a Multiswitch, port 4 / D, Vertical-Low. So the the other 3 connections are on the original Ku LNBF moved to 23.5E, which thus gets extra radio. So 5 x LNBFs on the bar of the 1.1m dish.


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    #4
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    watty wrote: »
    I suspect this is penny-pinching because UPC (who only rent the Virgin Brand) are not on Saorsat. It's a failure of licence regulation.
    It's a total pig to retune "other channels" on Humax HDR1010s, secret menu for Diseqc and you have to rescan. Which is a failure of the Freesat rules, making UK boxes ghettoised. Most Freesat can't do non-Freesat at all, but generally it's the only way to get Interactive MHEG.

    My Ka LNBF is on a Multiswitch, port 4 / D, Vertical-Low. So the the other 3 connections are on the original Ku LNBF moved to 23.5E, which thus gets extra radio. So 5 x LNBFs on the bar of the 1.1m dish.
    @watty long time no see. :)

    Have you done the calculations for the new 'fake' settings instead of 10765?


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    #5
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    These settings work for me.

    518430.jpg


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    #6
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    These settings work for me.

    518430.jpg

    I’m finding signal strength strongest on 10768 here.


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    #7
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I've found "adding a transponder" only works on some boxes. Does work on a Humax HDR1010s, in fact the only way, except you have to use the hidden menu, reselect diseqc on ALL satellites (freesat fails if you don't set Astra to 28.2 even though it's port one, unless you've not done an other Channels scan.

    I do a Blind Scan, FTA only. I do have it using the Vertical - Low cable of a Quattro mounted at 23.5, so I scan 23.5 E Astra 3B rather than setting up 9E. Means the bar on the end of the arm has 4x Quattro Ku LNBFs (28.2, 19.2, 13 and port 4 is 23.5) and one Ka LNBF.

    Just did it on a Redline G140, but I had to delete the old channels afterwards. Some boxes ask if you want to delete the existing channels. I had to swap the external SMPSU on the G140, too noisy and wiping out all LW & MW. The similar price Redline M440 HD has an internal SMPSU which is totally quiet, RF wise.
    It found it a 10758 and SR of 12499 QPSK 5/6 DVBS2.
    It's 84% quality, simply replacing the Ku LNBF at 9E in June. I'd only checked alignment of 28.2E / entire dish when I moved it last April. The LNBs are the same place on the bar as maybe 10 years ago.

    Apart from not having "Interactive" MHEG5, the Redline M440HD and G140 are better user interfaces than the Manhatten SX and Humax HDR 1010S.
    Android TV is pathetic for Satellite. Generally Android TV looks like it was designed for Apps on a 19" screen on a desk you are sitting at. The actual tuners / TV channels seem to be an afterthought. Far too small GUI even on 48" at normal viewing and totally orientated to Apps and streaming. Also STUPIDLY if the Channel Change banner is enabled, it pops up stats on HDMI inputs every time a disc format changes etc. Sony had far better TV software of their own. Also gratuitous format & encryption even for FTA channels and the USB HDD only plays on one TV? ANY FTA Satbox with recording via USB is better. Or a PC. Idiots.
    The Redline boxes create *.ts files for FTA.


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    #8
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    @watty long time no see. :)

    Have you done the calculations for the new 'fake' settings instead of 10765?

    I simply added the difference in frequency of the two Ka transponders.


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    #9
    Delta Lima
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Delta Lima


    10758 works for me too.

    I have a similar set up to you watty , using a Triax multiblock and multiswitch.

    Except that my dish is a TD 88 and I use Port 2 , Vertical / Low ( the other 3 inputs on that port coming from an LNB at 19.2 E position.) I don't think I'm missing too much without that input from 19.2.

    I centred the dish on 16 E before putting on the multiblock bracket.

    So I was loosing Saorsat signal occasionally. in heavy rain.

    I'm just hoping it doesn't get much worse with these new changes in settings.
    It's hard to tell atm because it actually stopped raining where I am today. :)


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    #10
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    @marclt @watty. I tried going up in small steps and got nothing. Went down in small steps and it locked on at around 10762. But when I checked to get that screen grab 10758 is what the box itself chose. Who am I to argue with it. LOL
    Of course that's why I emphasised those setting "worked for me"
    That's openATV BTW


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    #11
    phelixoflaherty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭phelixoflaherty


    Trying to rescan Humax Foxsat in Galway city.
    With these new settings is the frequency different for different parts of the country?
    Not getting anything with the new settings


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    #12
    Delta Lima
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Delta Lima


    Be sure to delete the old non- working stations first.


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    #13
    phelixoflaherty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭phelixoflaherty


    Deleted entire satelite settings and reinstalled.
    When inputting frequency, humax only allows 5 digits, therefore 20192 instead of 20192.500 .
    Would this be the cause?
    Thanks


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    #14
    Delta Lima
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Delta Lima


    Did you try 10758 or similar instead of that number philex...?


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    #15
    phelixoflaherty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭phelixoflaherty


    Will try this evening,thanks


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    #16
    phelixoflaherty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭phelixoflaherty


    No luck


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    #17
    Delta Lima
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Delta Lima


    Did you do a factory reset? ( You shouldn't have needed to.) If you did you need to set up your "Antenna Settings" properly , according to your installation.

    Check out this site for a guide for the Foxsat.

    http://www.astra2sat.com/freesat/diseqc-settings-on-freesat/


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    #18
    Yogomeysl
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Yogomeysl


    I changed over to 10758 MHz, 12500 symbol and 5/6 Fec. Signal is down about 30% from previous saorsat parameters. RTE starts freezing now and then.

    I moved up and down a few MHz either side of 10758 looking for a higher signal strength, but no joy. Never had a problem before with the older settings. Is anyone else experiencing lower signal strength?


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    #19
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    I'm running OpenVix and ABM. Will this setup trickle its way into this or do I need to do anything manually?


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    #20
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Yogomeysl wrote: »
    I changed over to 10758 MHz, 12500 symbol and 5/6 Fec. Signal is down about 30% from previous saorsat parameters. RTE starts freezing now and then.

    I moved up and down a few MHz either side of 10758 looking for a higher signal strength, but no joy. Never had a problem before with the older settings. Is anyone else experiencing lower signal strength?


    The change from an FEC of 3/4 to 5/6 means the signal contains less in built error correction. Higher FEC -> Less robust signal ->Bigger dish for stable reception.

    You could try realigning your dish to see if your reception can be improved. As an initial test, press gently on the dish on left, then right, then top, then bottom and see if signal quality improves - you may need someone to monitor the TV.

    Failing that, you need a bigger dish.


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    #21
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Yogomeysl wrote: »
    I changed over to 10758 MHz, 12500 symbol and 5/6 Fec. Signal is down about 30% from previous saorsat parameters. RTE starts freezing now and then.

    I moved up and down a few MHz either side of 10758 looking for a higher signal strength, but no joy. Never had a problem before with the older settings. Is anyone else experiencing lower signal strength?

    What size dish are you using there?


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    #22
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    @marclt @watty. I tried going up in small steps and got nothing. Went down in small steps and it locked on at around 10762. But when I checked to get that screen grab 10758 is what the box itself chose. Who am I to argue with it. LOL
    Of course that's why I emphasised those setting "worked for me"
    That's openATV BTW

    It’s 10757 / 10758 on my samsung TV, but on the LG, it is showing a slightly stronger sig on a slightly different frequency - it may just be a quirk of the software.

    There is still no difference in the make up of the multiplex, 20 TV placeholders (Many blank) and 10 for radio.


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    #23
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    What signal strength and quality is everyone getting?
    I'm in NE Antrim and getting only 30% SNR and 60% AGC. Using the 'real' transponder value in Satellites.xml (whic I added myself):
    <transponder frequency="20192500" symbol_rate="12500000" polarization="2" fec_inner="4" system="1" modulation="1" />

    Able to pick up channels. Fear is that came the next heavy rain shower we'll drop the channels. Is this going to improve in future or is this it?


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    #24
    Yogomeysl
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Yogomeysl


    marclt wrote: »
    What size dish are you using there?

    80 cm. Going to double check alignment and failing that upgrade to bigger dish


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    #25
    Yogomeysl
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Yogomeysl


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    What signal strength and quality is everyone getting?
    I'm in NE Antrim and getting only 30% SNR and 60% AGC. Using the 'real' transponder value in Satellites.xml (whic I added myself):
    <transponder frequency="20192500" symbol_rate="12500000" polarization="2" fec_inner="4" system="1" modulation="1" />

    Able to pick up channels. Fear is that came the next heavy rain shower we'll drop the channels. Is this going to improve in future or is this it?

    Nearly identical numbers here. I contacted 2rn on Friday about it. They are going to check the signal in areas. As kindly mentioned in a previous post, changing the error correction to a less robust one is causing problems for people who are on borderline signal strength.


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    #26
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Yogomeysl wrote: »
    Nearly identical numbers here. I contacted 2rn on Friday about it. They are going to check the signal in areas. As kindly mentioned in a previous post, changing the error correction to a less robust one is causing problems for people who are on borderline signal strength.

    Whereabouts are you and what is your setup?


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    #27
    Yogomeysl
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Yogomeysl


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Whereabouts are you and what is your setup?

    80 cm dish in the midlands with a generic receiver (via DiSEqC switch). Not a blip in reception from saorsat for the last number of years, until change on July 1st. But having said that, the signal was always far less than our astra 2d dish, despite careful alignment.


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    #28
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Mine goes through a Diseqc (multiswitch) too into a Mutant HD51.

    I've noticed that our LG TV takes the multiswitch output and reports values of 90+. However, the transponder setup does not include the FEC value.


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    #29
    leoXX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭leoXX


    I'm surprised that RTE have never announced the closure of saorsat for cost cutting reasons


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    #30
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    leoXX wrote: »
    I'm surprised that RTE have never announced the closure of saorsat for cost cutting reasons
    I was under the impression it was intended as a backup feed to transmitters.


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    #31
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    What signal strength and quality is everyone getting?
    I'm in NE Antrim and getting only 30% SNR and 60% AGC. Using the 'real' transponder value in Satellites.xml (whic I added myself):
    <transponder frequency="20192500" symbol_rate="12500000" polarization="2" fec_inner="4" system="1" modulation="1" />

    Able to pick up channels. Fear is that came the next heavy rain shower we'll drop the channels. Is this going to improve in future or is this it?

    and so less than 24hrs later wind and rain has caused us to drop the signal. :mad:


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