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Potential bad dealership practice?

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Philb76 wrote: »
    Does your brother have the logbook yet

    No but it wouldn't have arrived yet anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Philb76 wrote: »
    Does your brother have the logbook yet

    No but it wouldn't have arrived yet anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    bazz26 wrote: »
    OP, I think you are now looking for conspiracies where there are none.

    well in fairness, it's not like clocked vehicles are exclusively within the realms of conspiracy theories


  • Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    Your brother owns the jeep now, get him to ring Toyota to find out its service history, as someone mentioned, commercials are cvrt'd every year so he should contact them to get the cert, it will have the mileage from the previous years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Philb76 wrote: »
    It's very common for Dublin people to buy cars down the country for a better deal and still request a Dublin reg it's only if you import then reg will be county you are resident

    Never knew that, seeing as Dublin has far more dealer's, I'd have thought it was a more competitive location?

    More pertinent point is that if someone from Dublin purchased new in carlow, they might not be inclined to travel back each year for servicing?

    Carlow Toyota probably not allowed under data protection to divulge who originally owned the vehicle ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ml100 wrote: »
    Your brother owns the jeep now, get him to ring Toyota to find out its service history, as someone mentioned, commercials are cvrt'd every year so he should contact them to get the cert, it will have the mileage from the previous years.



    He already has the cert showing cvrt km from 2020 ,2019 and 2018 ,even has a disc for 2019 along with obviously having the recent one

    What good is ringing Toyota if vehicle was serviced by a small garage outfit or even by owner themselves?


  • Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Never knew that, seeing as Dublin has far more dealer's, I'd have thought it was a more competitive location?

    More pertinent point is that if someone from Dublin purchased new in carlow, they might not be inclined to travel back each year for servicing?

    Carlow Toyota probably not allowed under data protection to divulge who originally owned the vehicle ?
    A lot of the garages in carlow and kildare, register their own demos with a D reg, I assume its easier to sell them on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Never knew that, seeing as Dublin has far more dealer's, I'd have thought it was a more competitive location?

    More pertinent point is that if someone from Dublin purchased new in carlow, they might not be inclined to travel back each year for servicing?

    Carlow Toyota probably not allowed under data protection to divulge who originally owned the vehicle ?

    Why would they have to bring it back to the dealer they purchased it from when going to any main dealer would keep the warranty intact.
    Not a hope will they give you the original owners name nor would ya need it, just get him to ring and ask.
    Lots of people are willing to travel for good deals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    Marcusm wrote: »
    The reg is based on the address of the first owner. If someone from Malin Head goes to west Cork to buy a car, it gets a DL reg unless they fiddle or **** with the paperwork.

    Yeah I mean brand new the op said he thinks the car was bought new in carlow but had a Dublin reg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    My mother in law bought her Hyundai in kildare and had no problem getting a Dublin reg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    My mother in law bought her Hyundai in kildare and had no problem getting a Dublin reg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Why would they have to bring it back to the dealer they purchased it from when going to any main dealer would keep the warranty intact.
    Not a hope will they give you the original owners name nor would ya need it, just get him to ring and ask.
    Lots of people are willing to travel for good deals.

    if they didnt bring it back to the dealer it originally came from , what good would it be calling them about service history ? , it was suggested earlier that my brother should ring the toyota dealer where the car was first sold in order to enquire about servicing or mileage etc as a means to trying to eliminate the suspicion of clocking ?

    i didnt say anything aboout " keeping the warranty in tact "

    the warranty is now over anyway , brother got an engine and transmission twelve month warranty in writing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    if they didnt bring it back to the dealer it originally came from , what good would it be calling them about service history ? , it was suggested earlier that my brother should ring the toyota dealer where the car was first sold in order to enquire about servicing or mileage etc as a means to trying to eliminate the suspicion of clocking ?

    i didnt say anything aboout " keeping the warranty in tact "

    the warranty is now over anyway , brother got an engine and transmission twelve month warranty in writing

    If they're a main dealer they might be able to tell you if its been kept between the network. Thus confirming millage. He can simply say he doesn't have the service history and would like to know its service history to maintain it.

    The point about the warranty is that most people buying a new car will stay in the main dealer network, as most require you to keep it serviced by a main dealer to maintain the warranty.

    At no stage did I mention you saying anything about the warranty, take the tin foil hat off for a second and listen to what people are saying instead of coming up with more theories.

    Even bring it to a Toyota specialist or indie with the software and ask for them to do a check of the ecu for the correct millage. If it turns out to be clocked bring it back straight away and report it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    If they're a main dealer they might be able to tell you if its been kept between the network. Thus confirming millage. He can simply say he doesn't have the service history and would like to know its service history to maintain it.

    The point about the warranty is that most people buying a new car will stay in the main dealer network, as most require you to keep it serviced by a main dealer to maintain the warranty.

    At no stage did I mention you saying anything about the warranty, take the tin foil hat off for a second and listen to what people are saying instead of coming up with more theories.

    Even bring it to a Toyota specialist or indie with the software and ask for them to do a check of the ecu for the correct millage. If it turns out to be clocked bring it back straight away and report it.


    thanks , when you say " toyota specialist " , i presume you dont just mean a regular toyota main dealer

    it would seem odd that after buying a new vehicle , the original owner risked voiding their warranty by not returning to the toyota network for due servicing , that there are no stamps from any toyota network dealers implies this did happen

    obviously thats a seperate issue from clocking but even the vehicle wasnt clocked , if the vehicle was only first serviced at 59000 km with the used car dealer , its not a great sign in terms of the original owners attitude to car ownership


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    thanks , when you say " toyota specialist " , i presume you dont just mean a regular toyota main dealer

    it would seem odd that after buying a new vehicle , the original owner risked voiding their warranty by not returning to the toyota network for due servicing , that there are no stamps from any toyota network dealers implies this did happen

    obviously thats a seperate issue from clocking but even the vehicle wasnt clocked , if the vehicle was only first serviced at 59000 km with the used car dealer , its not a great sign in terms of the original owners attitude to car ownership

    Unfortunately irish peoples attitudes to servicing in general is woeful, so it actually wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities that it wasn't serviced.
    59,000km on the same oil would be fairly rough all right.

    Yea there's independent specialist for most brands that aren't main dealers, some are affiliates some have spent their working life on that brand or previously been under the brand before branching out on their own.
    Usually a fair whack cheaper than a main dealer and happier to help.
    20k km per year with no service in 3 years, if that's the case and there's no faults or damage he has one hell of a car


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Unfortunately irish peoples attitudes to servicing in general is woeful, so it actually wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities that it wasn't serviced.
    59,000km on the same oil would be fairly rough all right.

    Yea there's independent specialist for most brands that aren't main dealers, some are affiliates some have spent their working life on that brand or previously been under the brand before branching out on their own.
    Usually a fair whack cheaper than a main dealer and happier to help.
    20k km per year with no service in 3 years, if that's the case and there's no faults or damage he has one hell of a car

    i dont suppose you can recommend an independent toyota specialist ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    i dont suppose you can recommend an independent toyota specialist ?

    Unfortunately not only had vw and bmw so never had a need for one, I'm sure somewhere on boards though someone could.
    Be weary of lads with the cheap software there's chancers out there using carly and charging people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Unfortunately not only had vw and bmw so never had a need for one, I'm sure somewhere on boards though someone could.
    Be weary of lads with the cheap software there's chancers out there using carly and charging people.

    do all toyota dealers provide this service if an indie specialist were a little far away ?

    obviously pricier but do they do that kind of thing ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    do all toyota dealers provide this service if an indie specialist were a little far away ?

    obviously pricier but do they do that kind of thing ?

    yea they should be able to run the diagnostic software would be more expensive.
    Other indies will be able to too if you know one with the software that ya trust. My local guy only has generic diagnostic software and can't do certain things the specialist software can for example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Because the testing is government let i am pretty confident all odometer info be available on foi request.
    That be after ownership change and registered in OP person name, whenever this happens....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    yea they should be able to run the diagnostic software would be more expensive.
    Other indies will be able to too if you know one with the software that ya trust. My local guy only has generic diagnostic software and can't do certain things the specialist software can for example.

    having been thinking about this now for a few days , im beginning to think it would be much worse if the vehicle was only first serviced at 59000 km than if it was clocked, if there was 100,000 km rather than 60,000 km , it would mean he was ripped off for about 5k ( and the jeep was 5k cheaper than any other landcruiser business class on carzone anyway) , if it was never serviced ? , much bigger headache

    engine sounds fine but its quite lacking in power on the road , i guess the large bulk means the 190 bhp and 2.8 l engine has a lot of work to do , he had a SWB prior to this and it was actually nippier so that might not signal anything with regards poor servicing

    it was a little too cheap for my liking , those business class landcruisers have become very expensive second hand due to the cost of new ones having increased two years ago by about ten grand due to tax changes , the 333 motor tax makes them attractive

    thanks for the advice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    OK so he was talking to the original Toyota dealer who sold it, it never went back to them and they had no sign of servicing within the network

    he also got back to the dealer who he bought it from to enquire about the servicing they did in february , one thing stuck out, they put two new tyres on the jeep , a three year old jeep with sixty thousand km should not need replacement tyres , this would leave me suspicious about the mileage on the vehicle

    he has it booked with a toyota dealer for a full inspection ,toyota dealer said they would see obvious signs of tampering but that some are skillfull at it

    the bigger issue here is if the jeep was only serviced for the first time at 59000 km , no record of it having been done amongst the toyota network

    ive just checked motorcheck and the odometer discrepancy is now gone , thankfully i downloaded and printed the report from a few days ago which shows the discrepancy , seems strange the dealer was able to get that discrepancy removed so quickly , one would hope that motorcheck are not susceptible to influence by the motor trade ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭shanec1928


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    OK so he was talking to the original Toyota dealer who sold it, it never went back to them and they had no sign of servicing within the network

    he also got back to the dealer who he bought it from to enquire about the servicing they did in february , one thing stuck out, they put two new tyres on the jeep , a three year old jeep with sixty thousand km should not need replacement tyres , this would leave me suspicious about the mileage on the vehicle

    he has it booked with a toyota dealer for a full inspection ,toyota dealer said they would see obvious signs of tampering but that some are skillfull at it

    the bigger issue here is if the jeep was only serviced for the first time at 59000 km , no record of it having been done amongst the toyota network

    ive just checked motorcheck and the odometer discrepancy is now gone , thankfully i downloaded and printed the report from a few days ago which shows the discrepancy , seems strange the dealer was able to get that discrepancy removed so quickly , one would hope that motorcheck are not susceptible to influence by the motor trade ?
    are you for real?? im due to get replacement tyres on my car with 19k KM which ive had form new... changing tyres now suspicious..:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    shanec1928 wrote: »
    are you for real?? im due to get replacement tyres on my car with 19k KM which ive had form new... changing tyres now suspicious..:rolleyes:

    you must spin the wheels everytime you go for a pint of milk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Big 4x4's are hard on tyres so it wouldn't be at all unusual to need new tyres pretty regularly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    you must spin the wheels everytime you go for a pint of milk

    It's a big heavy 4x4 that's bought by many as a work horse for towing trailers, of course it's going to go through tyres regularly. There is nothing unusual about a machine like that going through a few sets of tyres over 60k km.

    As I said earlier your lack of general knowledge on these machines is now making you a bit paranoid and finding conspiracies where there simply are none. I think you need to chill out and take a rest from digging holes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    bazz26 wrote: »
    It's a big heavy 4x4 that's bought by many as a work horse for towing trailers, of course it's going to go through tyres regularly. There is nothing unusual about a machine like that going through a few sets of tyres over 60k km.

    As I said earlier your lack of general knowledge on these machines is now making you a bit paranoid and finding conspiracies where there simply are none.

    big jeep 4x4 vehicles need tyres replaced less often , they are like truck tyres compared to whats on a car


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Right, your just being silly now. This thread has become farcical at this point, good luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Right, your just being silly now. This thread has become farcical at this point, good luck.

    thanks for your input


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    OP you are surely Trolling at this stage...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Truckermal wrote: »
    OP you are surely Trolling at this stage...

    Why?

    Clocking vehicles is not exactly uncommon?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I feel sorry for your brother. I’m sure this Shiite has put a dampener on buying a new motor for your brother if you’re sharing your thoughts with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Why?

    Clocking vehicles is not exactly uncommon?

    Because it's clear that it's a mileage discrepancy plus you think Tyres on a Jeep should last over 60K KMS...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    big jeep 4x4 vehicles need tyres replaced less often , they are like truck tyres compared to whats on a car

    Physics say no. These things are high up and they're heavy. 'Cruisers and Hiluxes go through tyres fairly rapidly. I'd expect to be starting on third set of for example Dunlop Grandtreks at that mileage. You've obviously no experience of either so maybe you shouldn't be giving advice to your brother. You'll have him maddened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I feel sorry for your brother. I’m sure this Shiite has put a dampener on buying a new motor for your brother if you’re sharing your thoughts with him.

    actually im not , he doesnt do the social media forum thing either so wont read it


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    big jeep 4x4 vehicles need tyres replaced less often , they are like truck tyres compared to whats on a car

    You need to stop talking nonsense, I'm driving 4x4s a long time and the only tyre I've ever seen do anywhere close to 60k are the bf Goodrich all terrain, your normal run of the mill jeep tyre will be lucky to do 30k


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    You need to stop talking nonsense, I'm driving 4x4s a long time and the only tyre I've ever seen do anywhere close to 60k are the bf Goodrich all terrain, your normal run of the mill jeep tyre will be lucky to do 30k

    ok, lets not get all high handed

    il accept i might be wrong about the tyres but lets not pretend that tampering with odometers is spectacularly rare , hopefully it didnt happen but the suspicion is not baseless here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    I have an e90 bmw and I'd be laughing if I saw 45k km.
    Tyre place told me I was doing well getting over 30k km on runflats with the normal tyres getting slightly more.
    If anyone sat they get 60k km out of jeep tyres they're lying to ya.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Casati


    I’d give the OP a break here - okay 60km for tyres is nothing suspicious but having a single stamp in the book at 59km isn’t great at all and oil that old could lead to premature engine wear. It’s worrying that the original dealer can’t see any history in the dealer network - generally somebody buying a new Landcruiser at what might have been 60/70k new wouldn’t mind forking out 200 quid for an annual service

    Having said that, there it might have been serviced outside dealer network - I worked for a trucking company who serviced all vehicles in house inc mngt Lexus LS and Merc S classes and other company cars inc a couple of Landcruisers. Even bodywork was done in house and cars only went to dealer for warranty work


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Casati wrote: »
    I’d give the OP a break here - okay 60km for tyres is nothing suspicious but having a single stamp in the book at 59km isn’t great at all and oil that old could lead to premature engine wear. It’s worrying that the original dealer can’t see any history in the dealer network - generally somebody buying a new Landcruiser at what might have been 60/70k new wouldn’t mind forking out 200 quid for an annual service

    Having said that, there it might have been serviced outside dealer network - I worked for a trucking company who serviced all vehicles in house inc mngt Lexus LS and Merc S classes and other company cars inc a couple of Landcruisers. Even bodywork was done in house and cars only went to dealer for warranty work

    Thank you.

    I only mentioned the tyres recently in the thread, hopefully no one else piles on over that incorrect perception on my part.

    The odometer discrepancy is now removed from MotorCheck, besides, a jeep engine with 100000 km would be no worse than one with 60000 km if properly serviced so while unpleasant, clocking wouldn't be the biggest concern, at the end of the day you can't know for sure with a used vehicle

    There is a genuine suspicion here however that it was only first serviced at 59000 km ,the salesman told him over the phone it had a full service history and he foolishly didn't inspect the manual

    He spoke to the service section of the garage yesterday and they said they would chase up information about it

    Trust but verify as they say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It would be common for the likes of a landcruiser to have been bought by a large business. Many of those will never see the dealer again.
    One of the larger construction companies in the country for example would have their own garage facilities and do their own work unless warranty work needed.
    Get toyota to have a look over it. If they cant say its clocked, nobody can, then forget about it.
    The fact that motorcheck removed the discrepancy suggests that that entry was not a safe piece of data.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mickdw wrote: »
    It would be common for the likes of a landcruiser to have been bought by a large business. Many of those will never see the dealer again.
    One of the larger construction companies in the country for example would have their own garage facilities and do their own work unless warranty work needed.
    Get toyota to have a look over it. If they cant say its clocked, nobody can, then forget about it.
    The fact that motorcheck removed the discrepancy suggests that that entry was not a safe piece of data.

    i only brought up the odometer discrepancy at the start to illustrate that when several things are off , it can give the impression of irregularity , i admit i was incorrect about the tyres so thats not an issue at all , i didnt know about dealerships using stock finance , that again was a non issue

    i accept a business might well do their own servicing but it does seem odd that someone would risk voiding warranty by not servicing in the first few years of ownership , motorcheck lists ownership from beginning of 2017 to february of this year as being private ownership , not company

    a business can be pretty brutal when it comes to delicate care of vehicles


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    so the landcruiser was checked out by a toyota dealer today

    ECU reading is in sync with odometer reading

    level of wear of brake pads typical for a vehicle with 60000 km , they told him they had a two year old landcruiser in yesterday with 75000 km and pads were more worn which makes sense

    they put a toyota fuel filter in as the used car dealer had used spurious
    worn
    biggest issue was the DPF , 80% worn , put it down to original owner driving slow on a regular basis in urban traffic ? , they blew out out and its now reading zero , they told him hopefully it will " regenerate " properly , otherwise its an indication of the fifth injector being in trouble ?

    overall they were content with the quality of the jeep

    when he got home however , he popped the bonnet and noticed that when topping up add blue , they spilt some and corrosion all over the fuse board lid , as well as some hoses and the area beside the add blue chamber

    funny as the service and parts guy handed him a half container of add blue as he was leaving and said " be careful using that , it burns everything "


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Warm water will dissolve the adblue. It crystalises on surfaces, it looks horrific but it wont do any lasting damage if you rinse it with some warm water. The parts guy was probably being dramatic, you could stick your hnd in a drum of adblue, no harm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    It's piss at the end of the day.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    bazz26 wrote: »
    It's piss at the end of the day.

    A fitting end to the thread.



    Lock it up boys.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    bazz26 wrote: »
    It's piss at the end of the day.

    The thread or the adblue?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    A fitting end to the thread.



    Lock it up boys.
    DvrX_55WkAAdQdp.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    The thread or the adblue?

    Yes. :D

    Book em Danno.


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