Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

PlayerTrader13 · 06-01-2014 11:31pm

shuffol wrote: »

Thought Denton again offered next to nothing from what I could see against Connacht, the perseverance with him is becoming irritating at this stage.

give me ben marshall

molloyjh · 06-01-2014 11:33pm

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

give me ben marshall

Easy there tiger....

Neil3030 · 06-01-2014 11:39pm

McGrath -> Ulster
Payne -> Leinster

Would be a great trade for Ireland. How would fans of either provincial camp feel about that?

Tox56 · 06-01-2014 11:40pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Is it not normally mid-week?

Always Monday to the best of my knowledge, certainly the last few weeks

PlayerTrader13 · 06-01-2014 11:40pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

McGrath -> Ulster
Payne -> Leinster

Would be a great trade for Ireland. How would fans of either provincial camp feel about that?

dont want to see it happen

PlayerTrader13 · 06-01-2014 11:44pm

Ruddock a doubt this weekend, decision to be made later in the week

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 06-01-2014 11:45pm

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

dont want to see it happen

why not?

TheGoldenAges · 06-01-2014 11:45pm

Strauss is back training?

LostArt · 06-01-2014 11:54pm

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Strauss is back training?

minimal contact for a couple of months (probably longer) then onto full contact

awec · 07-01-2014 12:03am

Neil3030 wrote: »

McGrath -> Ulster
Payne -> Leinster

Would be a great trade for Ireland. How would fans of either provincial camp feel about that?

No thanks.

As much as I like McGrath, he's not worth Payne in my book.

.ak · 07-01-2014 12:06am

Tox56 wrote: »

Always Monday to the best of my knowledge, certainly the last few weeks

Could be latter this week as the team is probably beat up after an arm wrestle in Galway. Also there's an 8 day turn around. From the pics they looked just like they were playing tip with extra defenders so that makes sense

PlayerTrader13 · 07-01-2014 12:06am

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

why not?

mcgrath is 24 year old prop, payne is 28 year old back.

.ak · 07-01-2014 12:07am

awec wrote: »

No thanks.

As much as I like McGrath, he's not worth Payne in my book.

Dom Ryan for Payne would be more ideal IMO, you need a decent loosie

PlayerTrader13 · 07-01-2014 12:09am

dunno why everyone seems to be happy to see dippy leave

awec · 07-01-2014 12:12am

.ak wrote: »

Dom Ryan for Payne would be more ideal IMO, you need a decent loosie

Again, no. Jared Payne is the best full back in the country, that would not be an ideal swap!

It's a moot point anyway, Payne will be going nowhere. Go sign your own NIQ 13, I don't see why the IRFU wouldn't allow it with LLL leaving.

ScissorPaperRock · 07-01-2014 12:14am

Neil3030 wrote: »

McGrath -> Ulster
Payne -> Leinster

Would be a great trade for Ireland. How would fans of either provincial camp feel about that?

Healy for Payne would probably be a more even (and probably ideal, in terms of the greater good) trade, though unrealistic.

Grimebox · 07-01-2014 12:14am

Ah sure Henshaw will be at Leinster in no time

PlayerTrader13 · 07-01-2014 12:18am

Grimebox wrote: »

Ah sure Henshaw will be at Leinster in no time

playing for his home province

molloyjh · 07-01-2014 12:22am

.ak wrote: »

Dom Ryan for Payne would be more ideal IMO, you need a decent loosie

Don't know about that. Personally I'd see our back-row next year as being:

Blindsides: Ruddock & Locky
Opensides: SOB & Ryan
Number 8: Heaslip & Murphy

There'll be a few others providing squad depth, but this should be our first and second choice (assuming Heaslip & SOB stick around). And it's a bloody good group. Dippy does seem to be coming back into form a bit.

Tox56 · 07-01-2014 12:24am

I wonder how great Payne's desire to play 13 is. In that BBC interview they said he got a taste for it playing a season there for the Blues and he wanted more of that for Ulster. But with Cave and possibly Olding competing for that position it's hard to see that happening. That's the only possible logic for that decision from Payne's POV, and even then it seems hugely unlikely, he walks into the Ulster backline even with everyone fit, there's little motivation for him to move otherwise

Tox56 · 07-01-2014 12:26am

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't know about that. Personally I'd see our back-row next year as being:

Blindsides: Ruddock & Locky
Opensides: SOB & Ryan
Number 8: Heaslip & Murphy

There'll be a few others providing squad depth, but this should be our first and second choice (assuming Heaslip & SOB stick around). And it's a bloody good group. Dippy does seem to be coming back into form a bit.

Things is Gilsenan has more than done his time and if he's going to be a succesful pro it's going to be at 7, and of course Leavy will be done with the U20s next season. Conan is also supposedly going well in the AIL which could push Murphy to 7 the odd time

molloyjh · 07-01-2014 1:02am

Tox56 wrote: »

Things is Gilsenan has more than done his time and if he's going to be a succesful pro it's going to be at 7, and of course Leavy will be done with the U20s next season. Conan is also supposedly going well in the AIL which could push Murphy to 7 the odd time

Probably all the more reason for us to send a back row up North for an Outside Centre I suppose. Gilsenan does look good so openside would be the position to do it logically speaking. And Ryan can play blindside too which would be a plus for Ulster with Henry there too. I like Dippy though and I'd really love to see him kick on for us.

A lot depends on what Ulster decide to do. Would they really move Payne to 13 with both Cave and Olding there, especially seeing as Payne is head and shoulders above their other FB options? If so would we see one of either Cave or Olding come down here?

Woody1997 · 07-01-2014 1:14am

I think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves regarding Payne. He's a bloody good player but I certainly wouldn't be swapping him for our good, young talent. What would bringing him down say to guys like Brendan Macken and maybe even Ferg who have been waiting for O'Driscolls retirement for some time now. I wouldn't call Jared the best full back in the country and also wouldn't like to see us poaching ulsters top players.

ScissorPaperRock · 07-01-2014 1:21am

Woody1997 wrote: »

I wouldn't call Jared the best full back in the country

On current form I don't think there's any doubt about that, and to be honest, I think he's probably better than Kearney even where they're both on top form.

Kearney might be better under a high ball and might have more pace, but I think Payne is a better counter attacker, especially in terms of exploiting space, and a better distributor (hence why he is an option in the centre). I for one can't wait to see what he can do in the green shirt, whether at 13 or 15.

I don't think it would make sense to move him from Ulster though.

awec · 07-01-2014 1:25am

molloyjh wrote: »

Probably all the more reason for us to send a back row up North for an Outside Centre I suppose. Gilsenan does look good so openside would be the position to do it logically speaking. And Ryan can play blindside too which would be a plus for Ulster with Henry there too. I like Dippy though and I'd really love to see him kick on for us.

A lot depends on what Ulster decide to do. Would they really move Payne to 13 with both Cave and Olding there, especially seeing as Payne is head and shoulders above their other FB options? If so would we see one of either Cave or Olding come down here?

I don't believe any of Payne, Olding, Cave or Marshall will head anywhere. Farrell maybe.

I think we will keep Payne at 15, Cave at 13 and Marshall at 12. Olding may get a go at 10 as a genuine contender with Jackson and also cover 15.

molloyjh · 07-01-2014 1:33am

awec wrote: »

I don't believe any of Payne, Olding, Cave or Marshall will head anywhere. Farrell maybe.

I think we will keep Payne at 15, Cave at 13 and Marshall at 12. Olding may get a go at 10 as a genuine contender with Jackson and also cover 15.

Would Olding be happy with that do you think? With a 13 shirt at Leinster begging to be filled and nobody at Leinster currently making a serious claim would he not be tempted down?

I totally get keeping Payne at 15. From Ulsters point of view it's a no brainer. But again, with the Ireland 13 jersey up for grabs and no stand out contender would the thought of regular first team rugby at 13 for Leinster and then possibly Ireland tempt Payne?

More than anything I think that's the way we should be looking at it. Not how it suits the teams, but how it suits the player. Ultimately it's them that would be making the call on it.

awec · 07-01-2014 1:39am

molloyjh wrote: »

Would Olding be happy with that do you think? With a 13 shirt at Leinster begging to be filled and nobody at Leinster currently making a serious claim would he not be tempted down?

I totally get keeping Payne at 15. From Ulsters point of view it's a no brainer. But again, with the Ireland 13 jersey up for grabs and no stand out contender would the thought of regular first team rugby at 13 for Leinster and then possibly Ireland tempt Payne?

More than anything I think that's the way we should be looking at it. Not how it suits the teams, but how it suits the player. Ultimately it's them that would be making the call on it.

Olding is the best of all our young backs who has the most potential. There is not a chance he will be put in the situation where he is happier to leave.

As for Payne IMO he is clearly a better 15 than 13. He gets regular games at 15 for Ulster and right now you'd have to say he's outperforming Kearney and would be getting in ahead of him at 15 for Ireland as well.

Hagz · 07-01-2014 1:48am

Woody1997 wrote: »

I wouldn't call Jared the best full back in the country and also wouldn't like to see us poaching ulsters top players.

I would say he's the best back in the country, never-mind full-back. And I wouldn't see anything wrong with poaching him.

ConFurioso · 07-01-2014 3:11am

awec wrote: »

Olding is the best of all our young backs who has the most potential. There is not a chance he will be put in the situation where he is happier to leave.

As for Payne IMO he is clearly a better 15 than 13. He gets regular games at 15 for Ulster and right now you'd have to say he's outperforming Kearney and would be getting in ahead of him at 15 for Ireland as well.

I agree, but where does he want to play? If its 13, with so much ridiculous talent you have up there, I'd be very surprised if at least one of them isn't looking south at a soon to be BOD shaped hole, noticing how nobody seems to be filling it.

Wait. That sounds wrong.

DAMMIT JUST GIVE US PAYNE! :pac:

Noopti · 07-01-2014 9:35am

Hagz wrote: »

I would say he's the best back in the country, never-mind full-back. And I wouldn't see anything wrong with poaching him.

I would second that, he is the most in form back in the country. He almost always creates something when he gets the ball and makes it look effortless. Can't wait to see him in green.

.ak · 07-01-2014 9:59am

From an Irish development point of view it may make sense. I wouldn't be too surprised to see our favourite players been moved from province to province.

PlayerTrader13 · 07-01-2014 9:59am

Tox56 wrote: »

Things is Gilsenan has more than done his time and if he's going to be a succesful pro it's going to be at 7, and of course Leavy will be done with the U20s next season. Conan is also supposedly going well in the AIL which could push Murphy to 7 the odd time

Gilsenan's track record of staying healthy is pretty bad though.. so is Ryan's though

Tox56 · 07-01-2014 10:09am

.ak wrote: »

From an Irish development point of view it may make sense. I wouldn't be too surprised to see our favourite players been moved from province to province.

Payne played for 3 different Super Rugby teams in the space of 4 years in NZ, and he got a pretty decent amount of game time at all of them. It seems movement between clubs is a lot more fluid over there. I wonder if there's more of a connection to the players here, even the whole concept of a regular first team player moving from province to province seems alien to me. I'm also clutching at straws for reasons why this move might happen, he has done this sort of thing before..

Quint2010 · 07-01-2014 10:13am

If it's from an Irish standpoint why wouldn't Payne just as easily move to Munster?

vienne86 · 07-01-2014 10:13am

Noopti wrote: »

I would second that, he is the most in form back in the country. He almost always creates something when he gets the ball and makes it look effortless. Can't wait to see him in green.

And I would third that. For me, he is the stand out candidate to replace BOD.

.ak · 07-01-2014 10:16am

Quint2010 wrote: »

If it's from an Irish standpoint why wouldn't Payne just as easily move to Munster?

Both provinces are in need of a 13/utility back imo.

former legend · 07-01-2014 10:20am

Is there any basis in reality for this Payne rumour at all? It seems a bit far-fetched to be honest.

I'd be only frickin' delighted if it was true but there would be war.

jamiedav2011 · 07-01-2014 10:22am

Quint2010 wrote: »

If it's from an Irish standpoint why wouldn't Payne just as easily move to Munster?

If you were Payne, would you rather move to Munster or Leinster to play as a back?

.ak · 07-01-2014 10:28am

former legend wrote: »

Is there any basis in reality for this Payne rumour at all? It seems a bit far-fetched to be honest.

I'd be only frickin' delighted if it was true but there would be war.

Ah I'd say it's 100% not happening. But it does raise the interesting point about inter-provincial transfers. Are we too dyed in the wool? Remember the canaries people were having last year when Fitz looked ready to go to Munster? Totally different situation, I know, as we needed Fitz badly but I think the major reaction was the fact he was going to Munster. Would the reaction have been the same if he was going to Ulster, or Connacht, or even abroad?

There's an element of tribalism here that you just don't get in NZ or even most other countries.

The question is, which method works? There's merit to both sides of the arguement. For example, a player who comes through a feeder system into an academy and then plays for the senior team is a lot more likely to go that extra mile for the team rather than somebody who's been moved around. Case in point: Nonu (as in he's moved around all the NZ franchises but never really plays his heart out for any of them and as such is off form)

The other side is that we live in an age of professionalism, these guys are professionals and should be doing their absolute best for any team they join. Case in point: Thorn (as in he's also played for several teams, and has given his all for every team he's played for)

07-01-2014 10:41am

Would love either Payne or Cave (prefer Payne but Cave > Macken) to come down.

Doubt either is a goer though, unless we really do see some increase in fluidity of movement between the 4 provinces.

If there is to be an increase in player movement, it would not be ridiuclous to see Ryan feature for Ulster next season as a likely 'swap'

awec · 07-01-2014 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Would love either Payne or Cave (prefer Payne but Cave > Macken) to come down.

Doubt either is a goer though, unless we really do see some increase in fluidity of movement between the 4 provinces.

If there is to be an increase in player movement, it would not be ridiuclous to see Ryan feature for Ulster next season as a likely 'swap'

Dom Ryan?

If yous get Jared Payne I want Sean O'Brien in return!

.ak · 07-01-2014 11:03am

awec wrote: »

Dom Ryan?

If yous get Jared Payne I want Sean O'Brien in return!

Ah you have no ambition. Ryan with some clear game time could be the best flanker in the country. You just gotta nurture it.

MugMugs · 07-01-2014 11:09am

awec wrote: »

I want Sean O'Brien in return!

So does half the Northern Hemesphire.

Get in line !

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 07-01-2014 11:13am

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

mcgrath is 24 year old prop, payne is 28 year old back.

And?

Leinster are chockerblock with props. McGrath is top class but O'Connell is another highly rated young prop and Bent can cover LH too. Not to mention Cian Healy

In stark contrast Leinster are badly missing a quality centre and that will become more apparent when BOD retires

It probably won't happen, but from a Leinster POV the move would be no brainer for the province.

ScissorPaperRock · 07-01-2014 11:31am

I wonder if the higher level of fluidity in NZ rugby is possible because people buy into the the idea of the All Blacks as the most important team in the country, whereas here in Ireland people put the provinces first and have more entrenched ideas of which players 'belong' to whom.

I'm personally an Ireland fan first and foremost and would love to see some movement between the provinces. Some movement between Ulster and Leinster would make perfect sense at the moment, with Ulster set to lose important forwards next season while having a glut of talented centres and Leinster set to lose important centres while having a glut of talented forwards.

I think it would be important for Ulster to keep Payne though. They're on the up as a team and he's one of the reasons why. You could immediately see the difference he makes when he came on last week.

It would probably make more sense to trade some of the younger talent, or at least to wait until they are more developed and experienced before moving some of the older/more experienced players.

bilston · 07-01-2014 11:43am

Apparently the new contract that Payne signed a few months ago was a one year provincial contract (this season) which then gets promoted to a two year central contract next season, I suppose if he is on a central contract the IRFU might be able to move him around? The fact he is not actually from Ulster might make it less of an issue for him.

That said I'd be gutted if it happened! I'd say it's doubtful anyway...hopefully...

The other thing is I can't see that the IRFU would really want to see Ulster lose Court, Afoa, Muller and Payne all in one season? They want our provinces to be strong.

jacothelad · 07-01-2014 11:45am

Hagz wrote: »

Then give us Cave.

Farrell for Furlong......

.ak · 07-01-2014 11:47am

bilston wrote: »

Apparently the new contract that Payne signed a few months ago was a one year provincial contract (this season) which then gets promoted to a two year central contract next season, I suppose if he is on a central contract the IRFU might be able to move him around? The fact he is not actually from Ulster might make it less of an issue for him.

That said I'd be gutted if it happened! I'd say it's doubtful anyway...hopefully...

The other thing is I can't see that the IRFU would really want to see Ulster lose Court, Afoa, Muller and Payne all in one season? They want our provinces to be strong.

Yeah honestly can't see it happening, but as I said on the previous page it's an interesting topic.

jacothelad · 07-01-2014 11:49am

Neil3030 wrote: »

McGrath -> Ulster
Payne -> Leinster

Would be a great trade for Ireland. How would fans of either provincial camp feel about that?

WE don't need a loose head. Moore for Farrell and Wallace plus McComish and McIlwaine and we're set for a deal.......:D:D:D:D

awec · 07-01-2014 11:51am

Ah yes, McComish. He's brilliant especially at the breakdown. Perfect for Leinster.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

Comments