Marriage House Ownership Trouble?!? (Mod note in first post)

mossyob · 25-08-2019 1:39am #1

My Fiance and I are getting married in a years time, we met a few years after I bought a house. We have been living together for three years and I take care of all the bills and mortgage. Some awkward questions have arisen and she wants to be made joint owner of the house once we are married which would be fine except I have an investment of €130,000 between buying the house and renovating it. When I first bought my plan was to renovate and sell.

I have recouped around €30k over last 3 years (€10k per year) as we rent the house for a few months during the summer and move in with our parents. She is also looking for half these earning and I have said this income takes care of the mortgage as the mortgage is €10k per year.

I have suggested that I could sell and we could buy the next house together. I know its half and half ownership when married but can I do anything to protect myself in all eventualities and also protecting her.

1. Should I take equilty from the house and buy another investment property.
2. Should she start paying half the mortgage and bills now or do we wait until we are married?
3. Should I be giving her half the Air BnB money
4. Do the banks just accept adding another person on the existing mortage

Appreciate the help

Mod note as of 26/08/19 at 9:40: this will be my one and only warning on this thread. Keep your advice constructive. I have deleted several posts where the poster appeared to completely fabricate a representation of the woman in question and then went on a nonsensical (and, honestly, concerning) rant, based on nothing but their own imagination.

I will not tolerate any personal attacks against the OP’s partner. If you must comment on her, be polite and imagine that she herself was reading it.

TheBully · 25-08-2019 1:42am

mossyob wrote: »

My Fiance and I are getting married in a years time, we met a few years after I bought a house. We have been living together for three years and I take care of all the bills and mortgage. Some awkward questions have arisen and she wants to be made joint owner of the house once we are married which would be fine except I have an investment of €130,000 between buying the house and renovating it. When I first bought my plan was to renovate and sell.

I have recouped around €30k over last 3 years (€10k per year) as we rent the house for a few months during the summer and move in with our parents. She is also looking for half these earning and I have said this income takes care of the mortgage as the mortgage is €10k per year.

I have suggested that I could sell and we could buy the next house together. I know its half and half ownership when married but can I do anything to protect myself in all eventualities and also protecting her.

1. Should I take equilty from the house and buy another investment property.
2. Should she start paying half the mortgage and bills now or do we wait until we are married?
3. Should I be giving her half the Air BnB money
4. Do the banks just accept adding another person on the existing mortage

Appreciate the help

Don’t get married?

Atlantic Dawn · 25-08-2019 1:43am

Best not get married if that's your attitude.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 1:55am

It depends on whether you believe in traditional marriage or are more progressive and believe in equality. Personally, given the divorce rate which I would define as a real risk I would take the equality route and protect yourself from the risk you are facing. Don't get married or seek legal advice on how to do this in the best way to protect yourself. Is she bringing anything to the table? It is a contract you are signing. Treat it as such. You don't owe anyone half your stuff just because you are getting along at the moment. You might not be in 10 years and you could find yourself living in a houseshare while she is living in the house you are still paying for. Especially if kids come along. That is a real risk. Treat it as such. Read about family court outcomes for men, it is not pretty.

Homer · 25-08-2019 2:04am

Your future wife wants half your earnings and joint ownership in a property in which you have significant equity and you honestly need advice on what to do?

Heres Johnny · 25-08-2019 2:41am

The fact she has asked for half the income from house is worrying. I'm in somewhat the same boat thought wise as you, I have a house worth about 300k which I bought 10 years ago and currently have 130k equity in it. Girlfriend lives here now too but the thoughts of what would happen to me if we had kids and married then broke up haunts my mind. I'd be certainly the one moving out and renting. Your concerns are well founded but hopefully you have a long and happy marriage

Loveinapril · 25-08-2019 7:49am

You would need to talk to a solicitor about that, maybe saying of the house is sold in the event of a divorce, you get €130k then 50% of the remaining profit. Selling up and buying 50/50 is a good idea too. Has she got savings? To be honest, the fact that she wants half the Air B and B earnings is a bit of a red flag. It isn't as if she is saying "lets put it in the family pot/ save" etc. She has no right to claiming this income from your house. Has she been contributing at all since she moved in? It sounds like a bit of a handy number for her.

splinter65 · 25-08-2019 8:53am

Her interest in the AirBNB money is a red flag.
Get independent legal advice and rethink your intent to marry (even though if you live together unmarried for long enough now she can make a claim against your estate anyway when you do split).
I think it would be a good idea if you look around for a good relationship counselor and book a couple of sessions on your own at first so that you can get professional advice about living in a long term relationship BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.
For instance, have you thought about the financial implications of becoming a father?
The issues that surround the distribution of material assets in a civil marriage pale in comparison to issues connected to parenthood.
Get legal and professional relationship advice as an independent single person before you proceed with entering a legal contract with this person.

Wesser · 25-08-2019 8:59am

when you get married expect to share half of everything, your assests, your income... her income of course.... your children... its half all.of the way.

gifted · 25-08-2019 9:04am

What is she looking for half the 30k for? Even though it goes towards the mortgage.

Ask her for half of the 130k you initially put in?

Bigus · 25-08-2019 9:10am

I have 2 completely different trains of thoughts on this .
1 . When you get married, half is automatically hers in the real world in Ireland.
On point 4 , I’m sure the bank would love an extra mark on the mortgage in case of default , but what gain is in that for either of you !
It’s good that you’re having these practical discussions now, and I can understand your concerns.

However it’s “only €130,000” , which over a lifetime is not a lot ,and been mercenary about it , how much would you invest in finding a life partner? and perhaps the fact you had a house was part of the subliminal attraction in the first place .
Personally I don’t see a problem with this if your punching above your weight in the attractiveness department, and it’s up to you if it’s worth the risk. Its only money, no point in having millions when you’re 80 but on your own, lonely.

duffman13 · 25-08-2019 9:12am

mossyob wrote: »

My Fiance and I are getting married in a years time, we met a few years after I bought a house. We have been living together for three years and I take care of all the bills and mortgage. Some awkward questions have arisen and she wants to be made joint owner of the house once we are married which would be fine except I have an investment of €130,000 between buying the house and renovating it. When I first bought my plan was to renovate and sell.

I have recouped around €30k over last 3 years (€10k per year) as we rent the house for a few months during the summer and move in with our parents. She is also looking for half these earning and I have said this income takes care of the mortgage as the mortgage is €10k per year.

I have suggested that I could sell and we could buy the next house together. I know its half and half ownership when married but can I do anything to protect myself in all eventualities and also protecting her.

1. Should I take equilty from the house and buy another investment property.
2. Should she start paying half the mortgage and bills now or do we wait until we are married?
3. Should I be giving her half the Air BnB money
4. Do the banks just accept adding another person on the existing mortage

Appreciate the help

This is a massive red flag, your being prudent using the income to pay the mortgage, why she feels entitled to half is perplexing. Whatever about a property you live in over time and she contributes but she's not contributing at all. Doesn't sound very equitable.

I'm with my OH 12 years, bought a house by myself shortly before we met, I always paid the mortgage for about 5 years, when she moved in she put money into the house and started contributing towards mortgage and bills. She's still not on the deeds but we are selling to buy a new house and she will be. She might not have paid half of the mortgage but it's our house and the new one will be in both names. If we ever do go out separate ways it'll be 50/50 but I dont see that happening tbh

You need to have a serious discussion about your future and where you will live in the future and who will pay what. It's all sounding a bit one way at the moment

Typer Monkey · 25-08-2019 9:18am

Why isn't she contributing to bills/paying you rent? You are paying all of her living expenses. That's strange, why does she expect to live for free? Is she incapacitated in some way?

_Brian · 25-08-2019 9:21am

mossyob wrote: »

My Fiance and I are getting married in a years time, we met a few years after I bought a house. We have been living together for three years and I take care of all the bills and mortgage. Some awkward questions have arisen and she wants to be made joint owner of the house once we are married which would be fine except I have an investment of €130,000 between buying the house and renovating it. When I first bought my plan was to renovate and sell.

I have recouped around €30k over last 3 years (€10k per year) as we rent the house for a few months during the summer and move in with our parents. She is also looking for half these earning and I have said this income takes care of the mortgage as the mortgage is €10k per year.

I have suggested that I could sell and we could buy the next house together. I know its half and half ownership when married but can I do anything to protect myself in all eventualities and also protecting her.

1. Should I take equilty from the house and buy another investment property.
2. Should she start paying half the mortgage and bills now or do we wait until we are married?
3. Should I be giving her half the Air BnB money
4. Do the banks just accept adding another person on the existing mortage

Appreciate the help

Your either not ready or not suitable for marriage.

If your not ready to share everything then your not ready for marriage because that’s what’s involved. She should also have equal say on the income from said house.

I appreciate that more and more people sliding see marriage as a life long commitment but that’s what it is.

Calltocall · 25-08-2019 9:29am

Don’t get married, this exact thing happened to someone very close to me, he was set up himself had his own place, met someone then the talk of finances came up probably a year in which everyone else said oh it’s normal etc to get finances straightened in a relationship but my gut always thought it’s wrong that she’s asking questions about finances so soon, half this half that etc, then they got married and had a child, three years in, seperated, he is out of the home and lives in a flat while she’s in the house he bought, he is now broke between spousal maintenance and his own rent etc.

Marriage is a massive financial risk, one of the biggest, nothing against love and marriage can work out well but if you have doubts over money etc before you even get married listen to your gut as you will be the biggest loser here.

Darc19 · 25-08-2019 9:57am

So the two of you live there for 9 months of the year and you rent out for three months.

During those 9 months she does not contribute to bills, pays nothing towards a mortgage and now, a year before you are getting married, she is putting demands that her name is on the deeds of the house?

There's something wrong here.

How much are you planning to spend on the wedding and who is paying for that.

I'll have a guess - you.?

Have her plans for the wedding become more expensive over the past few months? I'll guess yes to this!

Maybe sit down with someone you trust and have a proper talk.

It not the putting her name on the mortgage that is the issue, it's the fact that she is bringing it up so far in advance.

I'd also talk to a financial advisor. It might be more tax effective to sell the house and put a higher amount from salary into a pension whilst drawing down from the proceeds of the house sale to supplement your income.

Black_Knight · 25-08-2019 10:03am

You're getting married, what's hers is yours and what's yours is hers. Why does she need paperwork on an asset you're bringing to the "family pot of savings and assets"?

The house is paying for itself and will continue to need to pay for itself. If it gets sold in the future then it's profits are put into the family pot. Until then it just sounds like she wants A) extra income from its rental income without picking up the mortgage tab and

an asset under her name.

A) is idiotic and shortsighted

makes no sense... Until it becomes abundantly clear why she wanted this

My advice would be to say no to taking the rental income as the house has a mortgage and general upkeep expenses. And no to the joint ownership of the property - I just don't see the need unless there's something dishonest going on.

Faith · 25-08-2019 10:18am

I’m trying to get this straight in my head. You both currently pay no mortgage, because for 3 months of the year, you move out and manage to rent out your house for a whopping €10K, which covers the mortgage for the year?

Am I reading that correctly?

You have a house that you can rent for over €3 a month, which suggests it is either large and/or in a very attractive location, and yet the mortgage is only €10K a year? That’s a seriously sweet situation! Again, unless I have misunderstood and the mortgage is significantly higher.

That being said, is it not a complete balls moving out for 3 months of the year?

If neither of you are paying a mortgage or rent, do you both have a significant pot of savings?

I’d suggest leaving the house you currently have where it is, and both of you going to buy a new house jointly. Leave her name off the deeds of the first place and rent it out permanently. Use the rent money to cover the mortgage and associated expenses, and put whatever is left into your joint household account.

That way, you retain the original house in your name and you don’t risk putting her on the deeds. You then have a new house together that you jointly own. Should things go south in the future, you still have the first house if you need it.

I’d take a position somewhere in the middle of the “marriage is a contract” and “marriage means two become one entirely” positions. Yes, assets become joint, but you don’t have to 100% merge everything from your lives that occurred before you got married. Once you are married, everything should be joint and decided together etc, but marriage isn’t retroactive and I’d agree with protecting certain financial elements unless there’s a good reason not to.

cannotlogin · 25-08-2019 10:23am

Ah come on.......she has lived in your house rent free for 3 years and is also looking for 50% of the Summer rent from an asset she has never contributed to?

Get married if you want but realise what you are marrying.

I wouldn't have the brass neck to take advantage of someone like that.

NSAman · 25-08-2019 10:28am

The big red flag has already been raised and is waving right in front of your face.

Why would she ask or 50% of your rental income? Fine if you were bad at money management, but you seem to have your head screwed on judging by what you have posted.

You are absolutely right that this is awkward, but this is someone who you say has lived rent free with no bills since you moved in together? I would personally not be bothered about the marriage part, the finance issues seem to be taking priority here. Personally, I would see this as something I would need more time to assess. You don’t want to get screwed more than one way.

Mrs OBumble · 25-08-2019 10:40am

Wesser wrote: »

when you get married expect to share half of everything, your assests, your income... her income of course.... your children... its half all.of the way.

Share yes. Exact halves,, mayhe not: sharing should be based on need not mathematics.

Also you don't necessarily share pre marriage income.

And ... has she been paying rent while you lived together? If not, she's a leech to he shaken off IMHO.

25-08-2019 10:53am

Does she buy all the food and pay towards oil or gas etc. Maybe she views that as contributing.

Btw after 5 years of cohabitation she will have a claim on the house anyway. And its after 1 year with a child.

Think very carefully about this one. You don't want to marry a gold digger but on the other hand it maybe a great marriage and she may just be a bit immature and self centred in her young age.

cannotlogin · 25-08-2019 10:56am

Back again as cannot believe this situation!

Given you can rent your property for €10k for 3 months, I guess if she were renting a room of you it would be costly.

Even if the rent/half your mortgage etc. was €500 per month, she has saved €36,000 by moving in with you, and this is without costing the bills that you 100% pay for, and she is looking for more!!!

What's in this relationship for you?

I can clearly see what's in it for her.

Lantus · 25-08-2019 11:09am

If the rental income pays for mortgage how does she propose mortgage is paid if she takes half?

Most relationships divide the expenses first and foremost and anything left over is either personal money or put towards a shared goal.

Are you incomes equal?

Most relationships talk about equitable contribution. So if I move in I will pay bills and buy food to x value. You pay mortgage y and we can use a joint account for anything else.

Rushing to be on deeds and get income seems a little odd. Hard to know her thinking so tread carefully as money discussions can be stressful.

SusanC10 · 25-08-2019 11:10am

You don't sound like you are compatible with each other tbh.

Personally, I believe in full financial disclosure after engagement and before marriage so each person goes into the marriage with eyes open.

Each to their own but there must be agreement on how finances will work after marriage.

My Husband and I agreed while we were engaged that after we were married that everything would be pooled. We did not pool assets/finances until we were married. The key thing is agreement.

Darc19 · 25-08-2019 11:11am

Faith wrote: »

I’m trying to get this straight in my head. You both currently pay no mortgage, because for 3 months of the year, you move out and manage to rent out your house for a whopping €10K, which covers the mortgage for the year?

Am I reading that correctly?

You have a house that you can rent for over €3 a month, which suggests it is either large and/or in a very attractive location, and yet the mortgage is only €10K a year? That’s a seriously sweet situation! Again, unless I have misunderstood and the mortgage is significantly higher.

.

You're not reading it correctly.

It's rented short term during summer months - airbnb. So 10k is easily obtainable even in a secondary location.

Mortgage is circa 10k a year

House seems to have been bought at bottom of the market, so value has probably shot up and Op is sitting on 200-300k surplus.

And that's what she sees.

Run, run run.

BarryD2 · 25-08-2019 11:15am

Wesser wrote: »

when you get married expect to share half of everything, your assests, your income... her income of course.... your children... its half all.of the way.

That is indeed the basis of marriage and there for a good reason. Part and parcel of the deal. If it bothers the OP so much, then maybe get couple counseling.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 11:47am

BarryD2 wrote: »

That is indeed the basis of marriage and there for a good reason. Part and parcel of the deal. If it bothers the OP so much, then maybe get couple counseling.

Till death do us part is also a bsis of marriage. Unfortunately this is no longer adhered to so measures must be taken.

Salary Negotiator · 25-08-2019 11:51am

splinter65 wrote: »

Her interest in the AirBNB money is a red flag.
Get independent legal advice and rethink your intent to marry (even though if you live together unmarried for long enough now she can make a claim against your estate anyway when you do split).
I think it would be a good idea if you look around for a good relationship counselor and book a couple of sessions on your own at first so that you can get professional advice about living in a long term relationship BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.
For instance, have you thought about the financial implications of becoming a father?
The issues that surround the distribution of material assets in a civil marriage pale in comparison to issues connected to parenthood.
Get legal and professional relationship advice as an independent single person before you proceed with entering a legal contract with this person.

Is it not 5 years for cohabiting right to kick in, 2 if there are kids?

@OP - are you paying tax on the rental income?

Lefty Bicek · 25-08-2019 12:10pm

I can only give you anecdotal evidence of two acquaintances, based on their own stated situations - not even engaged, never mind married. Relationship ended where they had been cohabiting in a house solely in the man's name. Both went to court when it went south. Judge made both orders @ around 80k, allegedly.

Based on your even voicing this query here, I would say don't walk, RUN to a solicitor and get out of this situation as soon as possible.

Lefty Bicek · 25-08-2019 12:15pm

Heres Johnny wrote: »

The fact she has asked for half the income from house is worrying. I'm in somewhat the same boat thought wise as you, I have a house worth about 300k which I bought 10 years ago and currently have 130k equity in it. Girlfriend lives here now too but the thoughts of what would happen to me if we had kids and married then broke up haunts my mind. I'd be certainly the one moving out and renting. Your concerns are well founded but hopefully you have a long and happy marriage

Vasectomy. Stay single. Live alone.

beertons · 25-08-2019 12:16pm

Does she work?

Hoboo · 25-08-2019 12:21pm

Asking for half of the 10k from the air bnb when that's used to pay the mortgage is the key here.

What does she want that for? To hand back to you to pay the mortgage that she doesn't pay? Or handbags and shoes?

Sounds like a money hungry, em, lady.

Dial Hard · 25-08-2019 12:22pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I can only give you anecdotal evidence of two acquaintances, based on their own stated situations - not even engaged, never mind married. Relationship ended where they had been cohabiting in a house solely in the man's name. Both went to court when it went south. Judge made both orders @ around 80k, allegedly.

If those women had been contributing to the mortgage/bills during the relationship then they were entitled to a settlement. My own sister had to go to court in similar circumstances and won. This woman, however, has been living rent and bill free for the past three years. Why she thinks she's entitled to anything is completely beyond me.

Completely agree that the OP needs to get legal advice ASAP. And start flippin making her contribute!

Murt10 · 25-08-2019 12:27pm

Once you get married and live together in the house, then it becomes the family home and the Family Law Home Protection Act comes into force. Basically she owns 1/2 the house and there's nothing you can do about it.

She doesn't have to get you to sign anything over to her at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Home_Protection_Act_1976

PhoenixParker · 25-08-2019 1:00pm

There's no where near enough information oven by the OP to judge this situation or offer advice. As presented the information is extremely one sided.

OP pays the mortgage and bills, except mortgage amounts to €10k per year and is in fact paid for by an airbnb scheme achieved through their mutual sacrifice (they both move out) and his parents generosity. Depending on what he counts as "bills", how the other household expenses are handled, their relative earnings etc. she may be getting massively the short end of the stick. It kinda sounds like OPs actual spend on living expenses is only household bills (electricity, gas, broadband?) which maybe come to €3-5k a year.

You both seem to be jumping straight to the end of the discussion without working through the actual problem or setting long term goals first. If that's indicative of your overall communication in the relationship then you should not be getting married. As you've described it her requests do suggest red flags but your description of yourself also suggests red flags on your side.

Sit down, look at what comes in, what goes out, what your long term plans are, what lifestyle you want together . . . Stop thinking about mine and yours and start thing about "ours".

You probably need a relationship counsellor to help you work through this and to give you the skills to keep working through it for the rest of your life.

splinter65 · 25-08-2019 1:16pm

Forty Seven wrote: »

Till death do us part is also a bsis of marriage. Unfortunately this is no longer adhered to so measures must be taken.

Forget about “till death us do part”.
We’ve just voted to allow people to divorce and carve up the savings and assets very soon after entering the legally binding contract of marriage.
It’s now a very attractive option to a certain type of person to set out to inveigle they’re way into someone else’s life, get married to that person, leave shortly afterwards, and apply for a divorce shortly after that, and then walking away with a financial settlement out of all proportion to their contribution, especially if the leaver now has a child to maintain.
People need to be very careful if, when they meet a prospective spouse, they are in a much healthier financial position then the object of their desire.

Bicyclette · 25-08-2019 1:24pm

Two issues:

1. Have you been paying Income Tax on the Airbnb earnings? If you haven't, you will need to put money away to cover it. And if she takes half of that, she will be liable for gift tax on that too if she isn't the direct receiver of the money.

2. WHY is she so concerned about the money? I am married for well over 30 years. Hubby and I have informal arrangements when it comes to money but basically I'm not particularly interested in taking any of his earnings, nor he mine, provided we can jointly pay the bills and look after the children.

Someone I know was totally screwed by an ex. Both came into the relationship with their own properties, then bought another together. The ex offloaded their property and managed to dispose of it "somehow" and then when it came to the split (a very few years after the wedding) the ex demanded half of the assets, namely the family home and the remaining pre-partnership house. The person I know is still paying out money, even though they are now divorced longer than they were married and the ex has moved on and is financially very comfortable.

Be prudent. If you are asking questions here, you are just articulating your own worries. My advice would be to step back.

Diceicle · 25-08-2019 1:39pm

Heres Johnny wrote: »

The fact she has asked for half the income from house is worrying. I'm in somewhat the same boat thought wise as you, I have a house worth about 300k which I bought 10 years ago and currently have 130k equity in it. Girlfriend lives here now too but the thoughts of what would happen to me if we had kids and married then broke up haunts my mind. I'd be certainly the one moving out and renting. Your concerns are well founded but hopefully you have a long and happy marriage

Is it not the case, that in your scenario, your GF can claim a portion of your property without being married. Once she lives there as her main residence you are treated as a co-habiting couple. She would be entitled to some of that property regardless of marriage (??)

Lefty Bicek · 25-08-2019 1:43pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

If those women had been contributing to the mortgage/bills during the relationship then they were entitled to a settlement.

A few supermarket receipts, and that's about it.

'A settlement' is one way of putting it.

'Half the value of the house' is another.

:eek:

thomasdylan · 25-08-2019 1:50pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

There's no where near enough information oven by the OP to judge this situation or offer advice. As presented the information is extremely one sided.

OP pays the mortgage and bills, except mortgage amounts to €10k per year and is in fact paid for by an airbnb scheme achieved through their mutual sacrifice (they both move out) and his parents generosity. Depending on what he counts as "bills", how the other household expenses are handled, their relative earnings etc. she may be getting massively the short end of the stick. It kinda sounds like OPs actual spend on living expenses is only household bills (electricity, gas, broadband?) which maybe come to €3-5k a year.

You both seem to be jumping straight to the end of the discussion without working through the actual problem or setting long term goals first. If that's indicative of your overall communication in the relationship then you should not be getting married. As you've described it her requests do suggest red flags but your description of yourself also suggests red flags on your side.

Sit down, look at what comes in, what goes out, what your long term plans are, what lifestyle you want together . . . Stop thinking about mine and yours and start thing about "ours".

You probably need a relationship counsellor to help you work through this and to give you the skills to keep working through it for the rest of your life.

I can't see how she's massively getting the short end of the stick if she's not paying rent or bills for 9 months of the year. Could you explain this because I can't get my head around it?

LenWoods · 25-08-2019 1:55pm

If your in any sort of relationship with someone for six years or more then they are legally entitled to 50% of what you have anyway,
The mortgage can remain in your name shir why share debt?
It's the life insurance she should want a name on in the event you K.O
Not a share in the debt

I'm carrying the wife 18 year now,
She worked until 12 years ago which was around a year after signing up for a joint mortgage; then had three kids one after the other followed by postnatal depression and anxiety when it came to getting back to work and now will most likely never work again.

Her sister has had two partners in the past ten years;
First lad was coming in to inheritance and she used to tell us plans she had for her and Ben's money when he gets it,
Good lad dropped her as soon as he got it done right.

New lad now of three years, his parents are selling and giving him money 150k towards a house; shes now talking about what there going to do with his money when he gets it;
There out there they really are.

Should the second person have a say in your mortgage they could use that value to obtain a bigger loan or gamble it all away

Life insurance yes, mortgage agreements no
Why share debt ?

PhoenixParker · 25-08-2019 2:09pm

thomasdylan wrote: »

I can't see how she's massively getting the short end of the stick if she's not paying rent or bills for 9 months of the year. Could you explain this because I can't get my head around it?

I said “may be getting the short end of the stick”. She might not be, but it’s not clear what the real story is from the post, which is full of half truths and red flags to my eye.

“Bills” is extremely vague for a start. The OP says he pays mortgage and bills but then also says mortgage is paid for by them both moving out of the house. It makes me question how truthful he’s being overall since he’s not exactly paying the mortgage without a major sacrifice from her.

Now bills could mean all household expenses or it could mean gas/electricity/broadband. Depending on what OP actually means by “bills” his contribution to the household budget might be as low as €3k a year.

Who pays for cars, petrol, insurance, food shopping, holidays, entertainment, clothes . . . ? Her actual costs and contribution to the household may be far higher than his, he hasn’t said anything about her contribution. We don’t know from the vagueness of his description.

The OP bought the house before they met, it’s location may also be costing her time and money in a commute or limiting her job opportunities and income. He hasn’t said anything about how they’ve worked things out up to now.

Using myself as an example, granted we’re married and have a kid, but the way our finances have ended up working out is that technically the bills and mortgage come from my account and all other living expenses come from a joint account funded by my husband. Mortgage + broadband, electricity and life insurance is maybe a third of our monthly spend. It’d be more than laughable to suggest my husband doesn’t “contribute”. Reality is he earns multiples of my income and we could live comfortably if I wasn’t working.

Maybe OPs girlfriend is a gold digger, maybe she’s trying to rebalance skewed finances in a relationship or maybe it’s somewhere in between. Whichever it is, what I see is a massive failure to communicate and work through this issue from beginning to end which doesn’t bode well for marriage.

splinter65 · 25-08-2019 2:15pm

Diceicle wrote: »

Is it not the case, that in your scenario, your GF can claim a portion of your property without being married. Once she lives there as her main residence you are treated as a co-habiting couple. She would be entitled to some of that property regardless of marriage (??)

She can go to court and try but she would need a lot of very solid evidence of how she contributed financially to day to day living expenses at the very least.

thomasdylan · 25-08-2019 2:43pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I said “may be getting the short end of the stick”. She might not be, but it’s not clear what the real story is from the post, which is full of half truths and red flags to my eye.

“Bills” is extremely vague for a start. The OP says he pays mortgage and bills but then also says mortgage is paid for by them both moving out of the house. It makes me question how truthful he’s being overall since he’s not exactly paying the mortgage without a major sacrifice from her.

Now bills could mean all household expenses or it could mean gas/electricity/broadband. Depending on what OP actually means by “bills” his contribution to the household budget might be as low as €3k a year.

Who pays for cars, petrol, insurance, food shopping, holidays, entertainment, clothes . . . ? Her actual costs and contribution to the household may be far higher than his, he hasn’t said anything about her contribution. We don’t know from the vagueness of his description.

The OP bought the house before they met, it’s location may also be costing her time and money in a commute or limiting her job opportunities and income. He hasn’t said anything about how they’ve worked things out up to now.

Using myself as an example, granted we’re married and have a kid, but the way our finances have ended up working out is that technically the bills and mortgage come from my account and all other living expenses come from a joint account funded by my husband. Mortgage + broadband, electricity and life insurance is maybe a third of our monthly spend. It’d be more than laughable to suggest my husband doesn’t “contribute”. Reality is he earns multiples of my income and we could live comfortably if I wasn’t working.

Maybe OPs girlfriend is a gold digger, maybe she’s trying to rebalance skewed finances in a relationship or maybe it’s somewhere in between. Whichever it is, what I see is a massive failure to communicate and work through this issue from beginning to end which doesn’t bode well for marriage.

I can't see any half-truths here. He saved a deposit, bought a house and has the commitment of a mortgage. He's fortunate that the Airbnb covers the mortgage but if it didn't he'd be paying it. Wanting half the money from the airbnb when you've never contributed to the mortgage is trying to take advantage.

nuac · 25-08-2019 2:55pm

Bigus wrote: »

I have 2 completely different trains of thoughts on this .
1 . When you get married, half is automatically hers in the real world in Ireland.
On point 4 , I’m sure the bank would love an extra mark on the mortgage in case of default , but what gain is in that for either of you !
It’s good that you’re having these practical discussions now, and I can understand your concerns.

However it’s “only €130,000” , which over a lifetime is not a lot ,and been mercenary about it , how much would you invest in finding a life partner? and perhaps the fact you had a house was part of the subliminal attraction in the first place .
Personally I don’t see a problem with this if your punching above your weight in the attractiveness department, and it’s up to you if it’s worth the risk. Its only money, no point in having millions when you’re 80 but on your own, lonely.

If you reach 80 and have millions you will not be alone for long

robindch · 25-08-2019 4:51pm

mossyob wrote: »

[...] she wants to be made joint owner of the house [...]

There are a number of red flags in what you've written and - having seem a similar situation arise with one of my friends - I would advise you to speak with your lawyer about what your rights are now, what they are in the event of a marriage, and what they would be in the event of a divorce. And you can decide then whether these are things that you're comfortable with.

Specifically, I have seen a previously friendly couple descend into acrimony and fairly rank accusations, from one side at least, because the individual concerned felt that she was due ownership and control of 50% of everything, despite there having been no agreement, no marriage and worst of all, no discussion.

A prenup agreement might be reasonable in the circumstances, plus a frank discussion about who's put in what into the relationship - listed by rough date, and rough amount - so that some kind of pre-marriage balance can be established. That can be a difficult conversation to have, but it can be a useful one.

The alternative, and I've seen this too, is where some people, particularly in a family setting, simply refuse to discuss money without becoming angry, upset, entitled and occasionally belligerent or threatening. These are serious red flags and if difficult topics cannot be discussed fairly and openly with due consideration for the rights, responsibilities, frailties and interests of both sides, then frankly, I'd be seriously considering the future of the relationship.

robindch · 25-08-2019 5:03pm

LenWoods wrote: »

If your in any sort of relationship with someone for six years or more then they are legally entitled to 50% of what you have

That is not true. You seem to be thinking of the rules related to either divorce (a legal right to at least 33% of your spouse's assets) or the rules regarding Qualified Cohabitants which have changed quite a bit over the years - for example, these days, somebody coming out of a long-term relationship can apply to a court for support where it can be proven that they were financially dependent on the other person:

https://www.treoir.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Cohabitants.pdf
https://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/our-services/legal-aid-services/common-legal-problems/rights-of-cohabitants/rights-of-cohabitants.html

BarryD2 · 25-08-2019 9:10pm

All I can observe is that there's a fierce amount of cynicism about people and marriage in many of these replies. The tone of the OP is even and balanced - why assume the worst? If they're both in it for the long term it shouldn't be an issue. If they're not, then best not get married (or have children).

Lefty Bicek · 25-08-2019 9:24pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

All I can observe is that there's a fierce amount of cynicism about people and marriage in many of these replies. The tone of the OP is even and balanced - why assume the worst? If they're both in it for the long term it shouldn't be an issue. If they're not, then best not get married (or have children).

I think I see from where your foolish naivety comes.

Calltocall · 25-08-2019 10:43pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

All I can observe is that there's a fierce amount of cynicism about people and marriage in many of these replies. The tone of the OP is even and balanced - why assume the worst? If they're both in it for the long term it shouldn't be an issue. If they're not, then best not get married (or have children).

It’s just reality nowadays, so many separations and divorces no getting around it and being honest a lot could be avoided if red flags were heeded in early days before getting married, the fallout both financially and emotionally can be devastating yet it’s rarely spoken about but it happens all the time, a good dose of honesty will do the OP no harm. Marriage can be a great bond IF it’s with the right person.

Marriage House Ownership Trouble?!? (Mod note in first post)

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