Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

Jesus we have reached peak Chuckie with the faux indignation. The eviction was legitimate and lawful. The debtor's were told 2 days before it happened and they chose to stay and resist. The blowing this out of proportion by Sinn Fein and their useful idiots is painful to listen to. The economic illiteracy that is being displayed by Sinn Fein is worse than normal. All this ****e cause a few republican thugs had a hard on to bash some Jaffa's!

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Why are you so aggressively nitpicking a reported fact ?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-shot-dead-in-row-over-land-had-complained-about-his-killer-25964748.html

Unless I've missed a previous post, that is not the story i was referring to. The original poster was referring to a story where a chap was warned against purchasing land, who then purchased the land and was the threat was carried out by killing him. The poster said that the chap that purchased the land effectively killed himself by purchasing the land.

If I've misunderstood, I'll gladly retract my comment

nullzero wrote: »

I'm not casting any stones. Until today I never considered loyalist to be a term of abuse.
I just wanted to ask you your opinion on what I would class as libelous comments being made by a person I was broadly agreeing with in the beginning when I quoted his post.

I think I've said three times now I don't believe you're a bigot or a racist. All I can do is speak for myself on that.

end of the road wrote: »

being a loyalist does not automatically equal being part of a paramilitary outfit.

Absolutely.

Would you also agree, in the interest of fairness, that being British does not automatically make someone Protestant or Loyalist?

markodaly wrote: »

Only if you are a bigot and racist.

I guess that makes Rory Best, captain of the Ireland rugby team a 'Loyalist' too...

If he derescribes himself as British then he is a Loyalist, yes.

Omackeral wrote: »

I think I've said three times now I don't believe you're a bigot or a racist. All I can do is speak for myself on that.

I appreciate that. It's just not pleasant to have slurs made against you, particularly ones of that nature. I don't mean to involve you in this situation but you're being decent enough to reply and give a reasoned response, I essentially value your feedback and appreciate it.

cameramonkey wrote: »

Maybe I should have been a bit clearer. The man who bought the farm was murdered. The man who shot him then killed himself.


It's was an easy mistake to make given my sentence structure.

So, and apologies to reiterate the question, but it's it not disgraceful that a man was murdered for purchasing land legally?

Should such behaviour not be condemned?

A purely innocent man murdered for making a legal purchase.

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

If he describes himself as British then he is a Loyalist, yes.

I'd disagree with that in principle. Anyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to be British or Irish. By the rationale you're giving, they have to choose whether they're loyalists or republicans. That's pretty awful for someone who just wants to live a 9-5 and be a normal person.

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely.

Would you also agree, in the interest of fairness, that being British does not automatically make someone Protestant or Loyalist?

It certainly doesn't make them Protestant or Catholic, or Muslim or Jewish.

But I have never seen or heard of anyone from the North of Ireland who identifies as British ever calling themselves an Irish Nationalist or Irish Republican.

I think Gerry Fitt or someone like that said they had a Welsh granny but that's about as close as it gets.

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

But I have never seen or heard of anyone from the North of Ireland who identifies as British ever calling themselves an Irish Nationalist or Irish Republican.

how about this guy ?

Omackeral wrote: »

I'd disagree with that in principle. Anyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to be British or Irish. By the rationale you're giving, they have to choose whether they're loyalists or republicans. That's pretty awful for someone who just wants to live a 9-5 and be a normal person.

it absolutely is, agreed. however that is one of many problems the british brought to that part of ireland when they decided to enforce partition of the island rather then letting it all go and it is their fault that such a choice has to exist.

cameramonkey wrote: »

I would say most people who think of themselves as Irish are Republicans.

See, I've no bother with that. Thanks.

"Mr McGann house where he lived with his brother and sister" https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/roscommon-eviction-kbc-seeking-debt-repayment-since-2009-1.3736042 Anthony McGann lived in that house?

Where is this thread going????

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Where is this thread going????

It started about a farmer and his siblings being evicted due to a high court order (or two) for not liking the idea of paying his debts.
What this thread is about now and where it is going is anyone's guess...

CB19Kevo wrote: »

I have to say i find the whole thing hard to understand,Not the eviction or the retaliation as such but the response on social media.
It seems like many actually believe that if you refuse to pay back your debt that you can continue on without consequences. Are people actually insane or whats going on.
Sympathy is all well and good but facts have been laid out about this case and its clear from what i have seen that the only victims are the security workers who were assaulted and the dogs that were killed.

Where is self responsibility in all this?

Taxpayers bailed out the banks something something something.
Facts are irrelevant/too hard to understand for most people on social media these days.
Apparently the security workers( including the dogs) were loyalist terrorists (who are being likened to Cromwell) who are part of some sort of land grab..

Self responsibility doesn't come into it. The banks gave the loans. It's irrelevant that people need to adhere to conditions of any contract or mortgage that they freely signed after being informed of any consequences of non payment.

I really worry about the direction Ireland is heading in.

CB19Kevo wrote: »

I have to say i find the whole thing hard to understand,Not the eviction or the retaliation as such but the response on social media.
It seems like many actually believe that if you refuse to pay back your debt that you can continue on without consequences. Are people actually insane or whats going on.
Sympathy is all well and good but facts have been laid out about this case and its clear from what i have seen that the only victims are the security workers who were assaulted and the dogs that were killed.

Where is self responsibility in all this?

The security workers are the victims? They assaulted the retired guard. They got what they were looking for. Back to east Belfast with their tail between their legs...and take their Belgian bank with them

As someone born, grew up and living in Northern Ireland, I'm intrigued by this discussion of what one of these security guards supposedly is simply because he said he was British.

Unless there is some sort of alternative reality in parts of the south, up here anyone whom is regarded as a "loyalist", self described or otherwise, is someone whom either is involved with, or actively supports, or is at least suspected of giving covert or clandestine support to, a paramilitary group or groups of that seek to maintain the union of Northern Ireland within the UK. So that includes the UDA, UVF and other smaller groups past or present e.g. Red Hand Commandos, LVF etc.

Simply claiming someone speaking with a recognisable NI accent whom identifies as British is in no way proof that they're a loyalist. The most convincing proof of such is in the above paragraph. Most unionists, or at least those that I know of, would certainly not identify themselves as loyalists. Some would regard it as an insult. To best put it, not all unionists are loyalists, but all loyalists are unionists. It's also not something that works the same in reverse as few Nationalists would also openly regard themselves as Republicans and vice versa. Religion is also not a firm indicator either of nationality identity - some Protestants** would regard themselves as being Republican or Nationalist, a significant amount of Catholics would be Unionist supporters (especially around East Antrim and North Down), and of course others like Agnostics, Atheists, Jews, Muslims, Mormons etc. can fall into either bracket, or like many Prods or Tagis themselves either identify as both and/or don't really get hung up about it.

I don't know if the person in question is a loyalist, but the video evidence does not give proof either way.



** Just to note, there are numerous Protestant Unionists (or at least come from such backgrounds/communities) whom don't have a big problem with being identified as Irish - just not really at home but outside Ireland & UK they're comfortable enough especially if they're travelling on an Irish passport. They just don't see their Irish identity as being in the same vein as those whom play rebel songs on their car stereos with the windows down and the volume cranked to 11.

end of the road wrote: »

was there another dog killed as well? i thought it was just 1.

It's been a bad few weeks for dogs or maybe the Strokestown dog is the one allegedly shot and disappeared from Longford.
Can we use the word "disappeared" or do our Shinners find it offensive and a risk to the Peace Process?

gctest50 wrote: »

Doherty sounds like the unwanted illegitimate offspring of Ian Paisley and some catholic nun

No no no no

.

Meeeooow!
quite funny actually