How to Express our Displeasure with Politicians & Media

Idbatterim · 27-08-2018 9:23pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Your solution is bedsits?

Along with higher density. It’s part of the solution they allow them in Germany the uk and pretty muchbevery other country. But the Irish know best as usual lol! What’s your proposal, every worker who is single in Dublin just earn 120,000 or thereabouts a year to afford an average new apartment in an average area of Dublin? Is that your solution? But I’m sure you are right, there are no sOlutions. Are you Eoghan Murphy by any chance ?

AndrewJRenko · 27-08-2018 9:34pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Along with higher density. It’s part of the solution they allow them in Germany the uk and pretty muchbevery other country. But the Irish know best as usual lol! What’s your proposal, every worker who is single in Dublin just earn 120,000 or thereabouts a year to afford an average new apartment in an average area of Dublin? Is that your solution? But I’m sure you are right, there are no sOlutions. Are you Eoghan Murphy by any chance ?

Does anyone else wonder about feasibility when your average Internet poster seems to have 'discovered' a simplistic solution to a problem that has eluded hundreds of expert officials, advisers, practitioners and academics?

Idbatterim · 27-08-2018 10:29pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does anyone else wonder about feasibility when your average Internet poster seems to have 'discovered' a simplistic solution to a problem that has eluded hundreds of expert officials, advisers, practitioners and academics?

Lol. They can’t get anything right in this small country and you are talking about experts, officials etc, good one! Then there is the fact that it suits many of the vested interests down to the ground...

AndrewJRenko · 27-08-2018 11:09pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Lol. They can’t get anything right in this small country and you are talking about experts, officials etc, good one! Then there is the fact that it suits many of the vested interests down to the ground...

Just stop for a moment and tell me how many successful operations took place in Ireland today?

Or how many people had a decent day in their nursing, or their residential service?

Or how many people's kids will go back to school tomorrow to a decent teacher?

Or how many people will turn on their taps to find a clean supply of drinkable water?

Now tell me again about this country that 'can't do anything right?

irishproduce · 27-08-2018 11:19pm

I think maybe someone in Regina's department is worried something is festering in here and now they're looking to set up an online social media monitoring division.
Invitations to tender have been issued today.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/latest-governments-plan-to-use-taxpayers-money-to-monitor-social-media-criticised-864811.html

tom1ie · 28-08-2018 10:33am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just stop for a moment and tell me how many successful operations took place in Ireland today?

Or how many people had a decent day in their nursing, or their residential service?

Or how many people's kids will go back to school tomorrow to a decent teacher?

Or how many people will turn on their taps to find a clean supply of drinkable water?

Now tell me again about this country that 'can't do anything right?

You’ve just described a typical western country. Great.
But we pay a high rate of tax, greater than 50%.
We should expect more than what we have at the moment. That means more infrastructure better hospitals, no waiting lists, top quality education and very little crime. Pretty much the opposite of what we have.
Ireland is where it is in spite of our politicians, not because of them.

Kivaro · 28-08-2018 5:35pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

People could run as independents on a reward the tax payer mandate. They could then form an independent alliance perhaps. Might be a lot easier than trying to form a new party now before an election. I’m assuming if you were in any way decent and run on a primarily housing and rewarding work basis, you would probably get in, in many constituencies. If you form a party and receive over 2% of the vote, you receive 200,000 each year from central government...

This is very interesting. How to become a td article from the journal a few years back ... http://www.thejournal.ie/election-td-dail-running-vote-crack-attempt-2263391-Aug2015/

This is the best that I can hope for.
Instead of the mandate being "reward the tax payer", I'd be more inclined to ask for a fair and equitable system for tax payers and then widen the net of tax payers. Affordable homes, better support/payments for home carers, a re-vamped healthcare system, a nationalised/subsidised childcare solution, a criminal justice system with a focus on victims and not the repeat perpetrators etc. etc. and since I am on a pipe dream ...... the abolition of the RTE tax on us and then let's find out if they can sink or swim.

suicide_circus · 28-08-2018 6:02pm

all income should be taxed. once. whether you're working part time at the weekends of or a 500k CEO. everyone should contribute. this is equitable and means everyone has a stake in the economy

Idbatterim · 28-08-2018 7:39pm

Kivaro wrote: »

This is the best that I can hope for.
Instead of the mandate being "reward the tax payer", I'd be more inclined to ask for a fair and equitable system for tax payers and then widen the net of tax payers. Affordable homes, better support/payments for home carers, a re-vamped healthcare system, a nationalised/subsidised childcare solution, a criminal justice system with a focus on victims and not the repeat perpetrators etc. etc. and since I am on a pipe dream ...... the abolition of the RTE tax on us and then let's find out if they can sink or swim.

Ok you are right. Many aren’t paying enough into the system, workers I mean. But you’ll alienate too many voters if you say we will tax you more. Honestly, go for usc abolition. Sure the whole bloody system is off the wall, if you can afford to send insane amounts in welfare up in smoke for example and increase that budget every year, you can then make a choice to stop doing that and abolish usc over several budgets. I’m not saying it’s what I’d do with a clean slate and a “ do what you want “ you are a dictator for a day. I’m saying what is realistic here given the set up and everything being a fundamental joke ...

Idbatterim · 28-08-2018 7:40pm

On the suggestion of RTÉ license fee abolition, you’re preaching to the choir!

AndrewJRenko · 28-08-2018 9:44pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

all income should be taxed. once. whether you're working part time at the weekends of or a 500k CEO. everyone should contribute. this is equitable and means everyone has a stake in the economy

Everyone does contribute. There's more to tax than income tax.

Kivaro wrote: »

This is the best that I can hope for.
Instead of the mandate being "reward the tax payer", I'd be more inclined to ask for a fair and equitable system for tax payers and then widen the net of tax payers. Affordable homes, better support/payments for home carers, a re-vamped healthcare system, a nationalised/subsidised childcare solution, a criminal justice system with a focus on victims and not the repeat perpetrators etc. etc. and since I am on a pipe dream ...... the abolition of the RTE tax on us and then let's find out if they can sink or swim.

All fairly standard stuff there - you could fit into pretty-much any of the political parties with that manifesto.

tom1ie wrote: »

You’ve just described a typical western country. Great.
But we pay a high rate of tax, greater than 50%.
We should expect more than what we have at the moment. That means more infrastructure better hospitals, no waiting lists, top quality education and very little crime. Pretty much the opposite of what we have.
Ireland is where it is in spite of our politicians, not because of them.

Most international comparisons show we're on the lower end of tax levels.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/ireland-v-the-rest-of-the-world-do-we-pay-too-much-tax-1.3230432

http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-money-tax-bills-3606473-Sep2017/

And yes, certainly there are things that should be better, but we are where we are - so the question is where are going to go from here?

Kivaro · 20-10-2018 12:08pm

The Irish media are just useless; they follow a groupthink (which is a whole different story to look into), so I am writing them off. Hopefully they will be irrelevant soon enough anyway.

Irish politicians, however, we have to live with until the next election.
The way that I am going to express my displeasure with them is by voting Peter Casey in the upcoming election.
Even though I do not really understand how the Irish Diaspora can help us back here, his comments on Irish Travellers resonated with me. They have caused nothing but strife to me, my family, and many of my friends and neighbours. They are allowed to get away with criminal activities to such a degree that their is no deterrent to stop their criminal behaviour, and their abuse of the social welfare system is being tolerated due to their special "ethnic" status.

Irish politicians are out of touch with reality. Enough votes for Peter Casey might just shake them out of their comfortable stupor.

tom1ie · 20-10-2018 12:13pm

Kivaro wrote: »

The Irish media are just useless; they follow a groupthink (which is a whole different story to look into), so I am writing them off. Hopefully they will be irrelevant soon enough anyway.

Irish politicians, however, we have to live with until the next election.
The way that I am going to express my displeasure with them is by voting Peter Casey in the upcoming election.
Even though I do not really understand how the Irish Diaspora can help us back here, his comments on Irish Travellers resonated with me. They have caused nothing but strife to me, my family, and many of my friends and neighbours. They are allowed to get away with criminal activities to such a degree that their is no deterrent to stop their criminal behaviour, and their abuse of the social welfare system is being tolerated due to their special "ethnic" status.

Irish politicians are out of touch with reality. Enough votes for Peter Casey might just shake them out of their comfortable stupor.

I will also be voting peter Casey for the above reasons.

JohnMc1 · 20-10-2018 12:58pm

_Brian wrote: »

The bigger problem is the growing entitlement brigade, they are growing in force and numbers and politicians are listening to them as a voting block. So free houses - SW increases and more taxes on tue worker will be common no matter who is in power.

Its isn't just the homegrown "I have a right to welfare" crowd that's the problem. The Govt is bringing in migrants that the majority of will be on welfare as well. The system will collapse very soon. People will only be willing to pay extra for so long before they decide to leave. That's when we'll really have problems here.

paw patrol · 20-10-2018 2:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does anyone else wonder about feasibility when your average Internet poster seems to have 'discovered' a simplistic solution to a problem that has eluded hundreds of expert officials, advisers, practitioners and academics?

I see your point and you aren't unreasonable

many decisions taken are taken for optics and political reasons (to buy votes or support) rather than cos they are correct

also it's a fallacy to assume that senior civil servants are experts..

It's hard to get into the civil service at a senior level unless you climb the ladder from bottom/mid level.... so many people who know a bit are employed outside the civil service.

And if they were any good they'd probably be elsewhere or working as an independent expert.

AndrewJRenko · 21-10-2018 12:12pm

paw patrol wrote: »

I see your point and you aren't unreasonable

many decisions taken are taken for optics and political reasons (to buy votes or support) rather than cos they are correct

also it's a fallacy to assume that senior civil servants are experts..

It's hard to get into the civil service at a senior level unless you climb the ladder from bottom/mid level.... so many people who know a bit are employed outside the civil service.

And if they were any good they'd probably be elsewhere or working as an independent expert.

You're right that we shouldn't assume that anyone is an expert, but you have the wrong reasons, IMHO.

In general, senior civil servants don't need to be policy experts. For example, in the education sector, the HEA are the policy experts for higher education. In transport, the NTA are the policy experts. So the civil servants don't need the kind of deep expertise that you might expect. Instead, they need expertise in managing the policy development process.

Also, I wouldn't assume that they'd be working elsewhere if they were any good. Policy development isn't a hugely transferable skill. In the US or to a lesser extent the UK, there is an industry of think-tanks and policy organisations, but there aren't too many of those here. So the deep expert in policy doesn't have a huge number of other options.

You'll also find that many civil servants aren't hugely motivated by money. Many are genuinely motived by public service, and take pride in doing the best job they can with the limited resources available.

There has never been better opportunities for external experts to join the civil service, with open, public competitions at AP, PO, Asst Sec and SecGen levels. Their experience is that many people with the skills and experience required aren't impressed with the packages available, and stay away.

BUt I do agree with you that many decisions are taken for optics and political reasons. We're not great for evidence-based decision making at a political level.

How to Express our Displeasure with Politicians & Media

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