Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

seamus · 11-01-2019 11:35am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's exactly why I'm saying it should be automatic, to avoid this. Fundamentally, I don't believe that any human being is 100% trustworthy. I've been f*cked over often enough by people close to me who I genuinely trusted that I just don't believe in blind faith anymore. Performing these tests as a standard part of post-natal care eliminates that entire problem from the equation.

To what end though? The data suggests that this is pretty uncommon, so it seems like an unnecessary expense to satisfy the paranoia of a small number of people. You suggest a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. If you're concerned about the paternity of your children, then don't have any.

From another perspective it could be viewed as reducing the process of pregnancy to something more formal and legal.

"I'm just going to take a sample from you sir so we can test to ensure you are the father". That automatically introduces an sinister aspect to what should be a joyful day.

Otherwise, like I said, every man has a choice between paternal certainty or his relationship. Doesn't seem remotely fair to me.

If paternal certainty is in question, then so is your relationship.

joe40 · 11-01-2019 11:35am

I have 2 kids, 15 and 13. I am 100% their biological father zero doubt.

But lets just assume, hypothetically speaking, I were to find out I'm not their biological father. Well it would affect my relationship with their Mother but after all these years it would not affect the way I feel about the kids.

I also would not feel cheated out of any resources I put into rearing those kids, nor would I stop at this stage. They're my youngsters at this stage regardless of genetics.

Gimme A Pound · 11-01-2019 11:37am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's exactly why I'm saying it should be automatic, to avoid this. Fundamentally, I don't believe that any human being is 100% trustworthy. I've been f*cked over often enough by people close to me who I genuinely trusted that I just don't believe in blind faith anymore. Performing these tests as a standard part of post-natal care eliminates that entire problem from the equation. Otherwise, like I said, every man has a choice between paternal certainty or his relationship. Doesn't seem remotely fair to me.

Do you believe that YOU'RE not 100% trustworthy? If you're gonna say yeah and refer to tiny things, doesn't count - as that's a world away from being horrendous enough to have sex with other men resulting in pregnancy and having your husband or partner believe that he is the child(ren)'s father. That is another dimension of psycho and hardly anyone would behave in such a manner, so of course women wouldn't like the suspicion of them being capable of such a thing.

Outlaw Pete · 11-01-2019 11:38am

Mucking about with mates in the 80's during the summer we'd often start slagging the odd chap about how his brother or sister must have been the result of his ma shagging some sailor down the docks. We'd only be messing at the time of course, not really meaning it, nor even thinking there'd be any truth to it but jaysus looking back there was the odd family for sure were it must have been true on distant reflection.

I mean, you'd have potatoe headed freckle families who'd all be walking with stoops, club foots and limps, conspicuously have one olive skinned family member with dark hair and eyes and while at eight or nine years old nobody would really pay much attention, at 14 or 15 when they strode out of the house like an adonis, shining in the sun during the summer to play ball with us on the green, you couldn't help but ponder the weekend extracurricular activities of Mrs Clancy.

Hector Savage · 11-01-2019 11:46am

valoren wrote: »

And she got £4 million from their divorce.
Her reputation, in whatever life she lives, is destroyed.

She's a maligant f'ucking c'unt !

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 11:47am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's exactly why I'm saying it should be automatic, to avoid this. Fundamentally, I don't believe that any human being is 100% trustworthy. I've been f*cked over often enough by people close to me who I genuinely trusted that I just don't believe in blind faith anymore. Performing these tests as a standard part of post-natal care eliminates that entire problem from the equation. Otherwise, like I said, every man has a choice between paternal certainty or his relationship. Doesn't seem remotely fair to me.

Testing being mandatory at birth is the best solution as it means the avoidance of awkward relationship moments and saves a man from pouring years and years of resources, both financial and emotional, into children that aren’t his.

But this testing will need to be both cheap and easy or else it’s not happening. Cheap being the most important thing.

Another thing, in a healthy relationship, you need to trust your partner. There’s not much of a relationship there otherwise. I’d imagine that most men who request paternity testing already have some suspicions (many justified, I’m sure). I can’t see it happening randomly in a healthy relationship.

josip · 11-01-2019 11:49am

Hector Savage wrote: »

She's a maligant f'ucking c'unt !

Ooh.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/stormrage/maligant

seamus · 11-01-2019 11:50am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Testing being mandatory at birth is the best solution as it means the avoidance of awkward relationship moments and saves a man from pouring years and years of resources, both financial and emotional, into children that aren’t his.

If he's concerned though he can get the test done without having to inform anyone. Swab from him, swab from the baby, job done.

As josip says, if it were to turn out (somehow) that my kids weren't mine, I wouldn't consider it years of "resources" wasted. I didn't have children as an investment.

So I don't see the need for the state to facilitate this because all women are potential whores. How many relationships will be ruined by false negatives?

If you're worried, get the test done. If it's a match, then throw the results away and treat your partner better as penance for doubting them.

Muckka · 11-01-2019 11:51am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Mucking about with mates in the 80's during the summer we'd often start slagging the odd chap about how his brother or sister must have been the result of his ma shagging some sailor down the docks. We'd only be messing at the time of course, not really meaning it, nor even thinking there'd be any truth to it but jaysus looking back there was the odd family for sure were it must have been true on distant reflection.

I mean, you'd have potatoe headed freckle families who'd all be walking with stoops, club foots and limps, conspicuously have one olive skinned family member with dark hair and eyes and while at eight or nine years old nobody would really pay much attention, at 14 or 15 when they strode out of the house like an adonis, shining in the sun during the summer to play ball with us on the green, you couldn't help but ponder the weekend extracurricular activities of Mrs Clancy.

There's a Mrs Clancy in our neighborhood too.
Supposedly Mr Clancy has Eyetalion ancestry...
But you wouldn't think it.

Going way back to the 80's , young Seamus looked really well on our breakdance crew, he was very stealthy looking, stood out.
All the girls loved him.

He was a sound lad, great scrapper too...faught like an eye talion

He had brown Coco skin and curly black hair,
Just the way he looked at you with that gentle loving stare....

joe40 · 11-01-2019 11:58am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Testing being mandatory at birth is the best solution as it means the avoidance of awkward relationship moments and saves a man from pouring years and years of resources, both financial and emotional, into children that aren’t his.

But this testing will need to be both cheap and easy or else it’s not happening. Cheap being the most important thing.

Another thing, in a healthy relationship, you need to trust your partner. There’s not much of a relationship there otherwise. I’d imagine that most men who request paternity testing already have some suspicions (many justified, I’m sure). I can’t see it happening randomly in a healthy relationship.

What about false negatives, they can happen. Also who would pay for this.

Frankly it is a silly suggestion and won't happen

greencap · 11-01-2019 11:59am

Wibbs wrote: »

"It's not the woman's fault at all". Yep I think we can all agree that's crazy stuff, but in the dafter regions of mainstream feminism that's not a particularly odd thing to think or say. It's quite common in fact. The "women are agentless victims and men are to blame" credo again.

Ooooh.

Bitter.

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2019 11:59am

Muckka wrote: »

There's a Mrs Clancy in our neighborhood too.
Supposedly Mr Clancy has Eyetalion ancestry...
But you wouldn't think it.

Going way back to the 80's , young Seamus looked really well on our breakdance crew, he was very stealthy looking, stood out.
All the girls loved him.

He was a sound lad, great scrapper too...faught like an eye talion

He had brown Coco skin and curly black hair,
Just the way he looked at you with that gentle loving stare....

took me a minute to remember where the last two lines were from.

Hector Savage · 11-01-2019 12:00pm

Fiery mutant wrote: »

So a woman with no apparent talent of her own gets 4 million in divorce, just because she happened to marry someone who was an entrepreneur and a hard worker who would work his ass off to give his family a great life.

Said hard working man who spent his life busting his gut for his family, then finds his whole married life was a con, then only gets awarded €250k for his trouble.

What a ****ed up world we live in.

Yep law is all for women, nothing for men, and then they go on about a totally fictional "wage gap"
I'm so lucky my wife is nothing like this, there seems to be so much absolute fukcing bitchy c*nts out there.

She should be forced to pay ALL the 4 Million back, let her lie on her back and charge for it.

I have more respect for street hookers then c'unts like this, at least the street hooker is honest about what they do.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 12:02pm

seamus wrote: »

If he's concerned though he can get the test done without having to inform anyone. Swab from him, swab from the baby, job done.

As josip says, if it were to turn out (somehow) that my kids weren't mine, I wouldn't consider it years of "resources" wasted. I didn't have children as an investment.

So I don't see the need for the state to facilitate this because all women are potential whores. How many relationships will be ruined by false negatives?

If you're worried, get the test done. If it's a match, then throw the results away and treat your partner better as penance for doubting them.

No mention of seeing your children as an investment. In fact the bit you bolded from my post is recognition that a lot of what spent on your children is money down the drain. And if those children aren’t yours, that’s money down the drain that somebody else should have been paying. You’d form a bond with the children but if you had known from the start that they weren’t yours, that bonding wouldn’t have happened and you’d be no worse of emotionally or financially. You wouldn’t miss a future emotional bond you haven’t yet experienced and won’t if you discover at birth that the child isn’t yours.

Muckka · 11-01-2019 12:06pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

took me a minute to remember where the last two lines were from.

An old house tune from the 90's

Gimme A Pound · 11-01-2019 12:10pm

greencap wrote: »

Ooooh.

Bitter.

Not a bit bitter. The post he's quoting is pure nonsense.

Gimme A Pound · 11-01-2019 12:12pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

there seems to be so much absolute fukcing bitchy c*nts out there.

Yeah female and male - this isn't new.

Most people are grand like your wife.

valoren · 11-01-2019 12:12pm

Between sexual partners then this is really the egregious thing that can happen to a man.
There is the double whammy of not only being duped into believing the child is yours but the fact that you partner cheated on you as well and has been living a lie e.g. telling the child to 'Ask Daddy' knowing she is lying to not only her partner but also her child.

Once is vindictive enough and to do it three times is incredible. A cnut of the highest order would only do that.
It isn't easy raising children. I can imagine the anger the man feels about it all. Clearly he wanted a family and through all the sh1tty nappies and the tantrums, he still loved and bonded with his children. Being duped into raising another man's offspring? Three of them? Fcking hell.

As for mandatory paternity tests, if you feel any doubt at all, then the bigger question is why are you involved with someone who instilled any inkling of doubt in you but actively having a family with this person you have trust issues with.

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2019 12:14pm

Muckka wrote: »

An old house tune from the 90's

I know.

BrokenArrows · 11-01-2019 12:17pm

givyjoe wrote: »

Consent from all parties is required for these tests no? Clinics will not do the tests or give results unless both consent to the test.

Open to correction but someone close to me had to go through the above to have something similar confirmed.

You could just use the likes of "my heritage" DNA tests. They don't do paternity tests directly but when two people do them you can compare the results and see the % chance of being related.

seamus · 11-01-2019 12:33pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

you’d be no worse of emotionally or financially. You wouldn’t miss a future emotional bond you haven’t yet experienced and won’t if you discover at birth that the child isn’t yours.

And if your uncle had tits he'd be your auntie.

The same point holds though.

If we take the absolute hypothetical that I discover one or more of my kids isn't mine, would I prefer that we had never bonded, that we had never had a parent/child relationship?

No.

That's not an argument for, "Everyone should just bring up the children they're given and shut up". But the argument that "you won't sink resources into kids that aren't yours" doesn't hold weight either.

I would not at any stage consider time or money spent on my kids to be "wasted", no matter what the future may hold.

If someone is paranoid enough that they're incapable of trusting a partner to be faithful, then I would suggest that rather than paternity test your newborn, just don't let it get that far in the first place.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 11-01-2019 12:34pm

valoren wrote: »

As for mandatory paternity tests, if you feel any doubt at all, then the bigger question is why are you involved with someone who instilled any inkling of doubt in you but actively having a family with this person you have trust issues with.

This again.

It isn't about trust issues. It is about preventing things like this from happening. I would imagine this person trusted their partner and he would never had dreamed that she would be as reprehensible as she has been exposed as being. If mandatory testing was implemented, he would have been aware of this from the outset.

This isn't about gender. There are people out there that will intentionally dupe good people and nothing will ever change this. Using emotional blackmail like, "he doesn't love or trust me" is why mandatory DNA testing needs to be implemented.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 12:44pm

seamus wrote: »

And if your uncle had tits he'd be your auntie.

The same point holds though.

If we take the absolute hypothetical that I discover one or more of my kids isn't mine, would I prefer that we had never bonded, that we had never had a parent/child relationship?

No.

That's not an argument for, "Everyone should just bring up the children they're given and shut up". But the argument that "you won't sink resources into kids that aren't yours" doesn't hold weight either.

I would not at any stage consider time or money spent on my kids to be "wasted", no matter what the future may hold.

If someone is paranoid enough that they're incapable of trusting a partner to be faithful, then I would suggest that rather than paternity test your newborn, just don't let it get that far in the first place.

Really? It’s a bond that wouldn’t have existed had you known at birth. Of course, by now you have bonded, so you’d not be able to hand those years back. But you can’t miss what you haven’t experienced so if you had found out at birth that you weren’t the babydaddy, I just don’t know if you’d even consider the future bond that could have formed. Bonding is a cumulative experience I’d imagine and you’d be at day 1, or a few days in, however long it would take. There’d be no relationship to miss.

josip · 11-01-2019 12:48pm

'Trust' is a recurring topic among posters here.
Would those in favour of the state DNA testing everyone at birth, also trust the state with all that DNA data for the lifetime of their children?

seamus · 11-01-2019 12:51pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Really? It’s a bond that wouldn’t have existed had you known at birth. Of course, by now you have bonded, so you’d not be able to hand those years back. But you can’t miss what you haven’t experienced so if you had found out at birth that you weren’t the babydaddy, I just don’t know if you’d even consider the future bond that could have formed. Bonding is a cumulative experience I’d imagine and you’d be at day 1, or a few days in, however long it would take. There’d be no relationship to miss.

I get that. But it's hypothetical.

I wouldn't regret it. I wouldn't be thinking, "I wish I had known from day one". It doesn't automatically follow that knowing from day one is better than not knowing.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 11-01-2019 12:51pm

josip wrote: »

'Trust' is a recurring topic among posters here.
Would those in favour of the state DNA testing everyone at birth, also trust the state with all that DNA data for the lifetime of their children?

Why would the state have to keep DNA data for the lifetime of the children? We have moved on from emotional blackmail to state incompetence. What next?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 12:58pm

seamus wrote: »

I get that. But it's hypothetical.

I wouldn't regret it. I wouldn't be thinking, "I wish I had known from day one". It doesn't automatically follow that knowing from day one is better than not knowing.

Well, you’d have all the facts. You could make an informed decision as to whether to raise the child as your own. You’d also be able to figure out if your relationship could weather the deceit. Some can, I’m sure. But you would not have been taken for a chump. I’d consider all the above factors as making it better than not knowing. That’s just me, we are all different.

josip · 11-01-2019 1:00pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

Why would the state have to keep DNA data for the lifetime of the children? We have moved on from emotional blackmail to state incompetence. What next?

They wouldn't have to keep it, but they could.
It wasn't incompetence I was thinking of, but the likelihood that the state would at some stage start using that DNA data in ways we wouldn't like.

"Sorry kiddo, your DNA shows that your life expectancy is below the 10th percentile, so it doesn't make economic sense letting you have 3rd level education."

11-01-2019 2:43pm

josip wrote: »

They wouldn't have to keep it, but they could.
It wasn't incompetence I was thinking of, but the likelihood that the state would at some stage start using that DNA data in ways we wouldn't like.

"Sorry kiddo, your DNA shows that your life expectancy is below the 10th percentile, so it doesn't make economic sense letting you have 3rd level education."

the whattest of bouttery

seamus, thats a nice sentiment and fair play but id imagine its impossible to put yourself into that situation and accurately predict how youd feel

Riskymove · 11-01-2019 2:57pm

seamus wrote: »

It doesn't automatically follow that knowing from day one is better than not knowing.

context is everything

you can see allusions to the AH Young Man's Nightmare anecdote where someone they sleep with becomes pregnant. There are always plenty of "get a test" type advices etc.

If someone has entered a relationship on such a basis and subsequently discovered that they were not the father I can see how they would react very differently to, for example, someone who entered a long term relationship and subsequently has children over time

biko · 11-01-2019 5:09pm

Then it happened one day, we came round the same way
You can imagine his surprise when he saw his own eyes
I said please, please understand
I'm in love with another man
And what he couldn't give me
was the one little thing that you can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfxs0IDeMs

diusmr8a504cvk · 12-01-2019 12:56am

The thought of this happening to me is horrific. I would have a hard time living after receiving news like this, to be honest I don't know if I could live at all...

Kidchameleon · 13-01-2019 9:27am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

..should all males submit dna to a database so that when a rape occurs the culprit can be found?

..Would you be ok with that since you are ok with all mothers having to prove that they arent deceiving their partners?

..To blanket assume all mothers are deceitful is wrong.

Just on this, in situations where there is a serial rapist on the loose, it is not uncommon that all males in the area will be obliged to submit DNA swabs.

If the likes of a Crimewatch appeal yields thousands of names for a rapist, all of those men named would be obliged to submit DNA.

If paternity fraud is so common, I do not see the problem of asking women to do the same, equality and all that...

pwurple · 13-01-2019 9:54am

Talk about airing the laundry publicly. Sheesh.

From afar, we could also claim this woman simply solved the problem of her husband’s infertility. We don’t have information on how long they were “trying”, what state their marriage was in etc.

This information appeared years after they were already divorced.

Zorya · 13-01-2019 10:33am

OceanSunrise wrote: »

Paternity doubt has had seismic influence culturally throughout the world. When women are ovulating all bets are off, it doesn't matter what vows are promises she has made. If optimal man arrives her instincts compel her to mate with him.
* While women can't be trusted during ovulation, men can't be trusted any time.

Bahahah! Yeah, you're absolutely right, women have only two brain cells and one of them is a fertile ovum with gnashing teeth. :rolleyes: You great big lummocking ludramán.

Zorya · 13-01-2019 10:44am

OceanSunrise wrote: »

When did I say women only have two brain cells, what are you talking about?

Sorry, my ''instincts'' ''compelled'' me to say that. You know how us wimmin are.

Zorya · 13-01-2019 10:50am

OceanSunrise wrote: »

Men and women have instincts and emotions which compel them to act in particular situations. I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make.

Compel means force or oblige. It would be very very rare the situations I could imagine where one is actually ever forced or obliged to do anything - perhaps at sword point or gun point, or if a loved one is threatened with death etc. But shagging random beefcakes just because our ovaries are jangling - nah. That's what we have our other brain cell for, my friend. It stops us being eejits.

Suckit · 13-01-2019 3:22pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p007tx02

Gimme A Pound · 13-01-2019 3:26pm

biko wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfxs0IDeMs

Yeah the sentiment of that song is awful!

BorneTobyWilde · 13-01-2019 3:32pm

She had one kid and got 2 free, she's so money supermarket.

super_furry · 13-01-2019 4:02pm

Were any laws broken by the wife? Seems like your man has little to no comeback.

givyjoe · 13-01-2019 4:05pm

super_furry wrote: »

Were any laws broken by the wife? Seems like your man has little to no comeback.

The courts awarded him 400k back out of a 4 million settlement. About 3.6 million short of what he should have been awarded.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 13-01-2019 4:12pm

valoren wrote: »

Between sexual partners then this is really the egregious thing that can happen to a man.
There is the double whammy of not only being duped into believing the child is yours but the fact that you partner cheated on you as well and has been living a lie e.g. telling the child to 'Ask Daddy' knowing she is lying to not only her partner but also her child.

Once is vindictive enough and to do it three times is incredible. A cnut of the highest order would only do that.
It isn't easy raising children. I can imagine the anger the man feels about it all. Clearly he wanted a family and through all the sh1tty nappies and the tantrums, he still loved and bonded with his children. Being duped into raising another man's offspring? Three of them? Fcking hell.

As for mandatory paternity tests, if you feel any doubt at all, then the bigger question is why are you involved with someone who instilled any inkling of doubt in you but actively having a family with this person you have trust issues with.

My thoughts too.

Suckit · 13-01-2019 5:03pm

Is that it done now? I mean, I get that there was a paternity fraud case, and he was awarded £250,000 (would love to know how it is worked out). But could he file a civil suit/case?
Is it not comparable to ripping off a business for years and then being caught and only ordered to pay back a small percent?

It must be incredibly frustrating. Surely the mother would have told her children who their father is at this stage?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/moneysupermarket-founder-whose-sons-werent-13822831
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/richard-mason-paternity-row-son-breaks-silence-claim-millionaire/

Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

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