If nurofen plus (codeine) can be sold otc, why not other drugs?

noubliezjamais · 21-02-2019 1:01am #1

Just curious. codeine is a opiate, though very weak one. Despite the concerns about addiction that forced pharmacists to move it out of site but still remain non-prescription i.e. over the counter, no one has lost their home over it to move onto a cardboard box. I don't here people stealing for money.

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

If you're not then why? don't they all get converted into morphine in the liver? I suppose society is worried about theft but in all fairness, drug prices are caused by them being illegal and the bad dealers controlling the prices forcing desperate people to buy them. Nothing will stop people using drugs. If they were legalized and regulated and sold otc (oramorph for example), why would anyone steal to buy it? It would become just like nurofen.

AllForIt · 21-02-2019 1:03am

Exactly how many of those Nerofen plus tables have you taken this evening?

noubliezjamais · 21-02-2019 1:06am

AllForIt wrote: »

Exactly how many of those Nerofen plus tables have you taken this evening?

None....I'm broke af

Tom Mann Centuria · 21-02-2019 1:06am

I'm buying shares in sennakot and Lactulose if OPs dream comes true.

ED E · 21-02-2019 1:08am

Thats kinda like saying your child had ate a chocolate liqueur and were fine so might as well let them try Absinthe.

Smurfing
Buying up the maximum allowed quantities of pseudoephedrine-based medicines at one location after another for use in the production of crystal meth.

OTC supply of anything with a significant amount of active ingredient that substance abusers might want is a bad idea. Look at what krokodil users will use.

ArchXStanton · 21-02-2019 1:14am

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Just curious. codeine is a opiate, though very weak one. Despite the concerns about addiction that forced pharmacists to move it out of site but still remain non-prescription i.e. over the counter, no one has lost their home over it to move onto a cardboard box. I don't here people stealing for money.

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

If you're not then why? don't they all get converted into morphine in the liver? I suppose society is worried about theft but in all fairness, drug prices are caused by them being illegal and the bad dealers controlling the prices forcing desperate people to buy them. Nothing will stop people using drugs. If they were legalized and regulated and sold otc (oramorph for example), why would anyone steal to buy it? It would become just like nurofen.

Nurofen plus addiction seems to be a bit of a problem in Australia, think they've made them prescription only now. I had to get a packet last weekend for a toothache and was asked a few questions in the pharmacy, I'm not a big fan of that codeine feeling, you kinda get sick of it like you would coffee or tea if you drank 3 cups in a row, but I can see how some people would develop a problem with it. Making morphine/oxycodone otc? No way I've seen the problems in Toronto with oxycodone, I'd only really want that if I was on my death bed with a terminal illness so I wouldn't be walking away an addict.

Victor · 21-02-2019 3:46am

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

In the 2004-2010 period, these drugs were killing 47-69 people per year in Ireland, when Heroin and Methadone were killing a combined 69-184 people per year in Ireland.

kneemos · 21-02-2019 5:56am

Neurofen+ has plenty of abusers,make no mistake.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-02-2019 6:10am

ED E wrote: »

Thats kinda like saying your child had ate a chocolate liqueur and were fine so might as well let them try Absinthe.

OTC supply of anything with a significant amount of active ingredient that substance abusers might want is a bad idea. Look at what krokodil users will use.

Sorry to bring up the old chestnut, but: alcohol.

kneemos · 21-02-2019 6:48am

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Just curious. codeine is a opiate, though very weak one. Despite the concerns about addiction that forced pharmacists to move it out of site but still remain non-prescription i.e. over the counter, no one has lost their home over it to move onto a cardboard box. I don't here people stealing for money.

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

If you're not then why? don't they all get converted into morphine in the liver? I suppose society is worried about theft but in all fairness, drug prices are caused by them being illegal and the bad dealers controlling the prices forcing desperate people to buy them. Nothing will stop people using drugs. If they were legalized and regulated and sold otc (oramorph for example), why would anyone steal to buy it? It would become just like nurofen.

Because making drugs freely available means they end up causing endless deaths and misery.
Just like alcohol and cigerrettes.

igCorcaigh · 21-02-2019 7:13am

If codeine is not enough for your pain, then you should really get an appointment with a GP. No need for stronger painkillers to be otc.

JustJoe7240 · 21-02-2019 7:20am

igCorcaigh wrote: »

If codeine is not enough for your pain, then you should really get an appointment with a GP. No need for stronger painkillers to be otc.

I don’t think the OP is actually in pain, but they seem under the impression that neurofen is harmless.
They are misinformed

SeaFields · 21-02-2019 7:25am

My student days were spent working in a pharmacy. I recall all the fuss when the guidelines regarding codeine came in and we had to implement them we took absolute dogs abuse. This wasn't your average junkie screaming abuse but ask yourself if a person dressed in a business suit is willing to threaten staff with assault unless they are given it or if an otherwise normal middle class person is willing to scream abuse at a pharmacist on the street because of it they don't have a problem. These weren't isolated incidents either.

A man asked me could he give in some medicines for the DUMP scheme one day. He handed me several supermarket bags of codeine products. His wife had them all over the house. He didn't realize the issue with codeine until he read it in the media. His wife obviously had a serious addiction to them.

Crazy times...

Your Face · 21-02-2019 7:44am

I'd like to see weed legalised on a trial basis.

The Bishop Basher · 21-02-2019 8:09am

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

No.

I take codeine for chronic nerve pain. I get Solpadol caps with pure codeine tabs added as it’s the paracetamol and ibuprofen contained in solpadol and neurofen that causes most physical harm to people.

Ive also been on OxyCodone for short periods when the pain gets really bad and I wouldn’t want to be on it for long. There’s no comparison other then that they’re both from the opiate family. Oxy will knock you on your ass. Nurofen Plus are like sweets in comparison.

Your Face wrote: »

I'd like to see weed legalised on a trial basis.

So would I. It’s incredibly effective for nerve pain, probably as effective for me as codeine with way fewer side effects.

corminators · 21-02-2019 8:26am

Let's legalise carfentanil.

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-02-2019 9:32am

So you have to go to your GP and pay the guts of €60.

Doctors room ghost · 21-02-2019 9:37am

Codeine is known as the housewives heroin.”might aswell get the 24 while I’m here”.

noubliezjamais · 21-02-2019 4:46pm

I take codeine regularly (not now though cause don't have money). Perform a cold-water extract to remove the ibuprofen from nurofen plus as it causes gastrointestinal problems. It's a nice high though definitely not as strong as Vidocin or OxyContin (oxycodone)

corner of hells · 21-02-2019 5:07pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

I take codeine regularly (not now though cause don't have money). Perform a cold-water extract to remove the ibuprofen from nurofen plus as it causes gastrointestinal problems. It's a nice high though definitely not as strong as Vidocin or OxyContin (oxycodone)

Should you not be taking them for pain relief ?

pleas advice · 21-02-2019 5:08pm

How is this possible?

Carfentanil is a synthetic opioid that is 10,000 times more potent than morphine and 100 times more potent than fentanyl, which itself is 50 times more potent than heroin

corminators wrote: »

Let's legalise carfentanil.

blanch152 · 21-02-2019 5:10pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

I take codeine regularly (not now though cause don't have money). Perform a cold-water extract to remove the ibuprofen from nurofen plus as it causes gastrointestinal problems. It's a nice high though definitely not as strong as Vidocin or OxyContin (oxycodone)

I think you have just answered the question as to why you can't just pick them off the shelf anymore.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-02-2019 5:14pm

Anytime I wanted Nurofen plus codeine, the pharmacist would always ask me a lot of questions before selling it to me. Even when it was really obvious that I was doubled over with back pain.

So, it’s OTC but not that easy to procure in my experience.

Now I have cancer and people throw heavy drugs at me like fish to a seal. It’s the only silver lining. Love you, oxycodone. Love you, Xanax! xxx

goat2 · 21-02-2019 5:19pm

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Codeine is known as the housewives heroin.”might aswell get the 24 while I’m here”.

I might use neurofen now and than for intense pain and find it help alleviate.
But it has never occurred to me that people take it for no other reason than just take it,
supposed to be a pain killer
I cannot understand why people would put their organs under stress by taking these pain killers when they don't have pain

Sardonicat · 21-02-2019 5:20pm

SeaFields wrote: »

My student days were spent working in a pharmacy. I recall all the fuss when the guidelines regarding codeine came in and we had to implement them we took absolute dogs abuse. This wasn't your average junkie screaming abuse but ask yourself if a person dressed in a business suit is willing to threaten staff with assault unless they are given it or if an otherwise normal middle class person is willing to scream abuse at a pharmacist on the street because of it they don't have a problem. These weren't isolated incidents either.

A man asked me could he give in some medicines for the DUMP scheme one day. He handed me several supermarket bags of codeine products. His wife had them all over the house. He didn't realize the issue with codeine until he read it in the media. His wife obviously had a serious addiction to them.

Crazy times...

I take N+ for migraine. I'd very rarely take more than one dose in 24 hrs (if one dose doesn't ease it a second one 6 hours later won't make a difference ) never more than 3 or 4 doses in a month. I certainly don't abuse it. I have had words with a pharmacist though. I have no problem with them going through the mandated guidelines but I do take issue with someone trying to flog me an overpriced paracetamol product instead of what I've asked even when I told him paracetamol doesn't work. When I'm in excruciating pain and I'm dizzy and can't see properly I tend to be a bit short fused when someone is implying I'm a drug abuser.

21-02-2019 5:29pm

I take paracetomal (1g) and ibruprofen (400mg) (non-plus) together at the same time when I get a migraine (unilateral throbbing).

they have different actions and both seem to help in their own way.

perfectly safe to do so.

LirW · 21-02-2019 5:39pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I take N+ for migraine. I'd very rarely take more than one dose in 24 hrs (if one dose doesn't ease it a second one 6 hours later won't make a difference ) never more than 3 or 4 doses in a month. I certainly don't abuse it. I have had words with a pharmacist though. I have no problem with them going through the mandated guidelines but I do take issue with someone trying to flog me an overpriced paracetamol product instead of what I've asked even when I told him paracetamol doesn't work. When I'm in excruciating pain and I'm dizzy and can't see properly I tend to be a bit short fused when someone is implying I'm a drug abuser.

I also rarely take them for migraine and when I have a particularly bad period. Now my period aren't a bit of a sore but I had to be hospitalised before on numerous occasions for them.
It's a lifesaver getting them after a few questions, I'd be long bankrupt if I'd have to get a prescription every time for it.

That said, I know a few people that abuse Codeine. It's not accessible over the counter in Germany anymore where said people live but people used to order them from France because some cough syrup with codeine could be ordered by the half dozen. I was even asked numerous times if I could just order them and send them on then.

whiskeyman · 21-02-2019 5:44pm

Anyone else amused by the new Nurofen ads?

images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR1Jw3i6YNL-At6uKeo236pevTsGErbjYSYB-OYvps-jqAIPGtk

I'd say the marketing guys were having a laugh and couldn't believe it got signed off!

Unleash the speed of liquid eh?

ArchXStanton · 21-02-2019 5:47pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

I take codeine regularly (not now though cause don't have money). Perform a cold-water extract to remove the ibuprofen from nurofen plus as it causes gastrointestinal problems. It's a nice high though definitely not as strong as Vidocin or OxyContin (oxycodone)

I've seen lads doing that in Canada with Tylenol 3s to separate the paracetamol, it's not full proof and you'll still fcuk yourself up

Sardonicat · 21-02-2019 5:47pm

glasso wrote: »

I take paracetomal (1g) and ibruprofen (400mg) (non-plus) together at the same time when I get a migraine (unilateral throbbing).

they have different actions and both seem to help in their own way.

perfectly safe to do so.

I've tried that too. Sometimes works, sometimes not. The reason I choose to use n+ is basically because no matter what I take it can't be guaranteed pain relief. If the Ibuprofen doesn't work then the codeine takes the edge off . I can get cluster headache and on day 3 when I've reached the point of wanting to gouge my eye out with a spoon the codeine enables me to zone out for a bit and maybe snooze if possible (often the best cure for migraine, I've found )

For severe non migraine pain I'll do the paracetomal/Ibuprofen combo. It's great.

The Hound Gone Wild · 21-02-2019 5:47pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

I take codeine regularly (not now though cause don't have money). Perform a cold-water extract to remove the ibuprofen from nurofen plus as it causes gastrointestinal problems. It's a nice high though definitely not as strong as Vidocin or OxyContin (oxycodone)

You can't cold water extract ibuprofen from codeine. Ibuprofen is insoluble in water.

Tzardine · 21-02-2019 5:48pm

I was in Spain last year and popped into the local pharmacy to get some over the counter painkillers for a headache. I was given some dissolvable pills and told to take 2.

I took the Two of them and the headache was gone and I felt amazing. A real high.

Turns out they had 30mg of codeine each in them. So I took a 60mg dose. Was no wonder I felt great. These were over the counter, no questions asked. I can see why people get addicted to them.

For comparison, Two solpedine have 16
mg of codeine.

Still have the Spanish ones in the press in case I ever need to amputate a limb.

The Hound Gone Wild · 21-02-2019 5:49pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

Anyone else amused by the new Nurofen ads?

I'd say the marketing guys were having a laugh and couldn't believe it got signed off!

Unleash the speed of liquid eh?

Liquid capsules are absorbed faster, it's not marketing guff. The drug is already is solution and can be absorbed through the gut faster than a standard tablet.

21-02-2019 5:52pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I've seen lads doing that in Canada with Tylenol 3s to separate the paracetamol, it's not full proof and you'll still fcuk yourself up

yes but the person here is separating ibuprofen from codeine, not from paracetamol.

paracetamol (acetaminophen) is far more dangerous than ibuprofen in terms of liver toxicity.

ArchXStanton · 21-02-2019 5:56pm

pleas advice wrote: »

How is this possible?
Carfentanil is a synthetic opioid that is 10,000 times more potent than morphine and 100 times more potent than fentanyl, which itself is 50 times more potent than heroin

I lost a good friend from od on Fentanyl, a man who's only possessions were the clothes he stood in and an elastic band around a bunch of release forms from whatever Toronto correctional facility he go out from that week

21-02-2019 6:08pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I lost a good friend from od on Fentanyl, a man who's only possessions were the clothes he stood in and an elastic band around a bunch of release forms from whatever Toronto correctional facility he go out from that week

opiates addiction must be awful.

how did he get the money for the fentanyl?

ArchXStanton · 21-02-2019 6:18pm

glasso wrote: »

opiates addiction must be awful.

how did he get the money for the fentanyl?

He was a bit of a character this fella, was notorious around east end Toronto for shoplifting then trying to sell his goods in the neighbourhood bars, I used to let him stay in my place sometimes, saddest part is a deceased relative left him a substantial amount of money and part of it was held in trust for him to set himself up with an apartment, I rang a friend over there on Christmas day and I knew before I even made the call that he was dead and he confirmed it, you don't make it too long living that lifestyle.

....... · 21-02-2019 6:21pm

Prior to the codeine half ban (as in, its not banned but we ask you loads of questions and make you seem like an addict even though last time you bought some was 4 years ago), a bloke in my job was addicted to solphadeine.

Youd see him in the mornings, 8am, a paper cup fizzing - 2 solphadeine. Then throughout the day youd see him with his paper cup fizzing from time to time.

After the half ban he had a list of about 30 different pharmacies he would drive round to on a rotational basis to buy it. He might see the same pharmacy staff member once every 2-3 months so he was still getting away with it. Surprising amount of pharmacies in close quarters in Dublin, theres 3 in walking distance of my house, and then if I drive 1 mile up the road, there are 5 in walking distance of each other. He had no problem finding 30 along his commute.

Anyway - he eventually had a heart attack (dunno if it was related) but when he woke up in hospital the nurse told him she knew well he was a codeine addict by his eyes? And he got off it then.

noubliezjamais · 21-02-2019 6:55pm

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

You can't cold water extract ibuprofen from codeine. Ibuprofen is insoluble in water.

I thought opiates are soluble in cold water. You crush the nurofen plus pills, stir and dissolve them in lukewarm water, put them in the fridge for 10-15 minutes and repeat once or twice, filtering out with a handkerchief. It's not perfect but it should remove the ibuprofen, paracetamol etc...

noubliezjamais · 21-02-2019 6:57pm

wonder what you lads think is worse in terms of addiction, opiods or benzos.

jopax · 21-02-2019 8:02pm

kneemos wrote: »

Neurofen+ has plenty of abusers,make no mistake.

I just don't get this at all, if I had a really bad headache I would get nurofen +, & I've also taken solphadine capsules.
How do people get high on them, I've never felt any different after taken them so I can't understand the addiction.

Tzardine · 21-02-2019 8:06pm

jopax wrote: »

I just don't get this at all, if I had a really bad headache I would get nurofen +, & I've also taken solphadine capsules.
How do people get high on them, I've never felt any different after taken them so I can't understand the addiction.

They take a big dose. A lot more than the 2 at a time you would take for a headache. People who are addicted to them will eat them like skittles.

jopax · 21-02-2019 8:10pm

Tzardine wrote: »

They take a big dose. A lot more than the 2 at a time you would take for a headache. People who are addicted to them will eat them like skittles.

I suppose that would explain it allright

kneemos · 21-02-2019 8:10pm

jopax wrote: »

I just don't get this at all, if I had a really bad headache I would get nurofen +, & I've also taken solphadine capsules.
How do people get high on them, I've never felt any different after taken them so I can't understand the addiction.

Swallow the lot.

Sardonicat · 21-02-2019 8:16pm

jopax wrote: »

kneemos wrote: »

Neurofen+ has plenty of abusers,make no mistake.

I just don't get this at all, if I had a really bad headache I would get nurofen +, & I've also taken solphadine capsules.
How do people get high on them, I've never felt any different after taken them so I can't understand the addiction.

Also, there is a huge variance in how codeine effects people. If I took 2 Solapadeine (Solpadol? Can't remember which one is script only) capsules I would be as high as a kite. If ever I'm prescribed them I take 1 and 1 normal paracetomal. 2 n+ usually zones me out a little as it is (hence why I take them for migraine ). I guess some people start liking the feeling and start taking too much and eventually become addicted.

jopax · 21-02-2019 8:23pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Also, there is a huge variance in how codeine effects people. If I took 2 Solapadeine (Solpadol? Can't remember which one is script only) capsules I would be as high as a kite. If ever I'm prescribed them I take 1 and 1 normal paracetomal. 2 n+ usually zones me out a little as it is (hence why I take them for migraine ). I guess some people start liking the feeling and start taking too much and eventually become addicted.

Yes, I can totally understand why people would get addicted if they got a nice feeling from them.
It's like you said it must affect people differently, I've often taken 3 together or 4 within an hour & it will just relieve my headache but not even completely. I've definitely never felt anything from them.

21-02-2019 8:25pm

I used to get a nice gentle spaced out kind of buzz from two pills of solpadeine but recently I've found they make me feel odd and shaky. Certainly depends on the individual.
I was in the pharmacy today and a man was looking for nurofen+. The sales assistant was a young wan and hadn't a breeze.

She asked him what he wanted it for and he said back pain. So off she went. He was probably delighted thinking she was getting him a box. But no. Out came the pharmacist and grilled him.
It's a good idea that the sale of them are so tightly regulated but I do feel for genuine pain sufferers who really need them.

Sardonicat · 21-02-2019 8:26pm

jopax wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Also, there is a huge variance in how codeine effects people. If I took 2 Solapadeine (Solpadol? Can't remember which one is script only) capsules I would be as high as a kite. If ever I'm prescribed them I take 1 and 1 normal paracetomal. 2 n+ usually zones me out a little as it is (hence why I take them for migraine ). I guess some people start liking the feeling and start taking too much and eventually become addicted.

Yes, I can totally understand why people would get addicted if they got a nice feeling from them.
It's like you said it must affect people differently, I've often taken 3 together or 4 within an hour & it will just relieve my headache but not even completely. I've definitely never felt anything from them.

Jesus! Does that not make you puke? And putting all that paracetomal or Ibuprofen into you at once is not good for your liver at all!

jopax · 21-02-2019 8:28pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Jesus! Does that not make you puke? And putting all that paracetomal or Ibuprofen into you at once is not good for your liver at all!

Not at all

Sardonicat · 21-02-2019 8:38pm

jopax wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Jesus! Does that not make you puke? And putting all that paracetomal or Ibuprofen into you at once is not good for your liver at all!

Not at all

Seriously, you need to stop doing that. If a normal dose doesn't relieve your pain a double dose won't make any difference. You can damage your liver with that carry on. If you are persistently getting pain that strong over the counter or even prescribed analgesics aren't relieving at normal dosage you need to get on to your GP. A different type of pain relief might be available that will work at a tegular dosage and you'll still have a functioning liver in 10 years.

Dalomanakora · 21-02-2019 8:40pm

I used to work with a guy, he was one of my managers. I was pretty young and didn't realise addiction to nurofen plus was a thing. He'd send me to a different chemist (worked in a city, lots of them around) each day for Nurofen for him. I didn't realise til about 2 weeks of going every single day that he was addicted. After that, I made it my mission to tell him they all refused to sell it to me because I'd only gotten it a few days before.

I can see how it's addictive. It doesn't make me spaced out or anything, just nauseous, but it used to make me very dopey. It was a nice feeling tbh.

But then I was prescribed the likes of Tramadol, Tylex, Difene and Oxycodone regularly (not all together of course) for various issues, and my jaysus. They're nasty stuff. They either give me a horrible sick stomach or in the case of the oxy, leave me out of my bin for 4-6 hours.

I try to stick to plain ole ibuprofen even though it doesn't even touch the pain I'm in, because the stronger stuff and the codeine scares me now :pac:

But for anyone who likes feeling high (I hate it), I can see how codeine is addictive.

If nurofen plus (codeine) can be sold otc, why not other drugs?

Comments