If nurofen plus (codeine) can be sold otc, why not other drugs?

The high horse brigade

kneemos wrote: »

We know what happens when addictive drugs are made legal.

Yes just look at Portugal.....

kneemos

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yes just look at Portugal.....

They decriminalised personal use. Nothing to do with legalising dangerous and addictive drugs.

ArchXStanton

Sardonicat wrote: »

I can't take Tremadol. I took it once and ended up on the couch in the GP's surgery with my legs elevated because my blood pressure had plummeted. And the spaced out feeling was just awful. I don't know how anyone could like that. Even with a prescribed dose of Solpadol the spaciness and disconnected feeling is horrible.

I think as long as you stick to the guidelines for n+ you'll be fine though.

Tramadol just made me feel itchy, supposed to be a common side effect of opioids

The high horse brigade

kneemos wrote: »

They decriminalised personal use. Nothing to do with legalising dangerous and addictive drugs.

It led to a reduction of hard drug usage, legalising would go even further

Sardonicat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

I can't take Tremadol. I took it once and ended up on the couch in the GP's surgery with my legs elevated because my blood pressure had plummeted. And the spaced out feeling was just awful. I don't know how anyone could like that. Even with a prescribed dose of Solpadol the spaciness and disconnected feeling is horrible.

I think as long as you stick to the guidelines for n+ you'll be fine though.

Tramadol just made me feel itchy, supposed to be a common side affect of opioids

N+ does that to me! I must be highly sensitive or something. I can't drink either. 2 glasses of lager and I'm a goner.

kneemos

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It led to a reduction of hard drug usage, legalising would go even further

Really,have you read this thread.

The reduction in usage was due to the focus on treatment rather than punishment.

Yer Da sells Avon

I can't take it any more because I can potentially be subjected to random drug testing at work, and drug tests apparently don't differentiate between Nurofen+ and more fun serious stuff.

I used to take it semi-regularly. I hurt my back in a car accident in 2017 and Nurofen+ was the only thing that took the edge off the pain. In addition to that, it left me feeling very slightly spaced out. Not 'high' or anything; just nice, warm and fuzzy. Not worth the risk of addiction, tbh.

The high horse brigade

kneemos wrote: »

Really,have you read this thread.

The reduction in usage was due to the focus on treatment rather than punishment.

It showed that the war on drugs is the wrong approach and is a complete waste of police time and resources. People will take drugs anyway whether they be legal or illegal

ArchXStanton

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I can't take it any more because I can potentially be subjected to random drug testing at work, and drug tests apparently don't differentiate between Nurofen+ and more fun serious stuff.

I used to take it semi-regularly. I hurt my back in a car accident in 2017 and Nurofen+ was the only thing that took the edge off the pain. In addition to that, it left me feeling very slightly spaced out. Not 'high' or anything; just nice, warm and fuzzy. Not worth the risk of addiction, tbh.

They are a great painkiller, last week I had a toothache that was driving me insane,2 N+ took the pain away for a good 6 hours, I'd wake up in the night when they wore off, drop 2 more and within half an hour I could feel the pain fading away, was some relief.

The Hound Gone Wild

Sardonicat wrote: »

The variance in experience is really astonishing isn't it? I wonder of this has ever been seriously been researched? It might help identify those at risk of addiction or explain the mechanism at play .

There is plenty of evidence for what you're saying. It's a known phenomenon.

Codeine isn't actually a drug, it's what's known as a pre-drug it's metabolised by your liver into the active drug - morphine. A typical person will convert 1-2% of a codeine dose to morphine but about 10% of the population are ultra-fast metabolisers, they'll convert typically 10-15% of codeine to morphine. On the opposite side of the scale are slow metabolisers who convert even less than the 1-2% and codeine has practically no effect whatsoever for them.

Tramadol works in a very similar way. I personally cringe when I see doctors prescribing tramadol, particularly to the elderly. They're basically prescribing a morphine dose without knowing what dose that person will receive.

Gimme A Pound

Before the opioid clampdown I got a really severe ear abscess as a teenager. The pain was excruciating and I had to go to the out-patients every day to get a dressing, which just made it sorer. I used to be hoovering back codeine-based painkillers because I had to, and I'd feel like I was floating and that people in the room were far away, etc. But it wasn't nice at all - it made me feel a bit freaked out. I guess it's nice if you have terrible anxiety or awful problems that you need a temporary escape from.

Mad_maxx

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Just curious. codeine is a opiate, though very weak one. Despite the concerns about addiction that forced pharmacists to move it out of site but still remain non-prescription i.e. over the counter, no one has lost their home over it to move onto a cardboard box. I don't here people stealing for money.

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

If you're not then why? don't they all get converted into morphine in the liver? I suppose society is worried about theft but in all fairness, drug prices are caused by them being illegal and the bad dealers controlling the prices forcing desperate people to buy them. Nothing will stop people using drugs. If they were legalized and regulated and sold otc (oramorph for example), why would anyone steal to buy it? It would become just like nurofen.

We have an insanely puritanical culture in Ireland with regards the dispensing of painkillers, GP, s and pharmacists spend more time fretting over the possibility you might end up addicted to solpadeine than treating your ailment, prescribing paracetamol for even a headache is a bad joke, smarties are as strong

Gimme A Pound

Yeah but only look to the US for sections of society - affecting all across the socio-economic divide - that have been devastated by heroin stemming from addiction to pain relievers.

Mad_maxx

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Nurofen plus addiction seems to be a bit of a problem in Australia, think they've made them prescription only now. I had to get a packet last weekend for a toothache and was asked a few questions in the pharmacy, I'm not a big fan of that codeine feeling, you kinda get sick of it like you would coffee or tea if you drank 3 cups in a row, but I can see how some people would develop a problem with it. Making morphine/oxycodone otc? No way I've seen the problems in Toronto with oxycodone, I'd only really want that if I was on my death bed with a terminal illness so I wouldn't be walking away an addict.

I'm in constant pain every minute of every day, I'm also prone to stomach ulcers so tylex really causes me problems, nurofen + isn't worth a damn for the intense pain I have anyway, what are mild strength painkillers most places are portrayed as strong in Ireland

They need to legalise pot, unfortunately politicians see no votes in it and medical professionals here believe suffering is good for the soul

You never get used to pain

Mad_maxx

Davian Round Pet wrote: »

Yeah but only look to the US for sections of society - affecting all across the socio-economic divide - that have been devastated by heroin stemming from addiction to pain relievers.

We are the opposite end of the spectrum, pain is a disease and chronically misunderstood by most doctors, let alone the general public, had a consultant in the Galway clinic tell me last summer that chronic pain does not exist, Orthopedic surgeon though I wouldn't let him treat my dog

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to get a nice gentle spaced out kind of buzz from two pills of solpadeine but recently I've found they make me feel odd and shaky. Certainly depends on the individual.
I was in the pharmacy today and a man was looking for nurofen+. The sales assistant was a young wan and hadn't a breeze.

She asked him what he wanted it for and he said back pain. So off she went. He was probably delighted thinking she was getting him a box. But no. Out came the pharmacist and grilled him.
It's a good idea that the sale of them are so tightly regulated but I do feel for genuine pain sufferers who really need them.

Jobsworths love giving you lectures about how nurofen is like heroin if you take it for more than three days

Shut up!

Sardonicat

The 'jobsworths ' don't love it at all. They are obliged to go through those guidelines by law.

Mad_maxx

Sardonicat wrote: »

The 'jobsworths ' don't love it at all. They are obliged to go through those guidelines by law.

Give over, I've probably bought a few boats down the years for pharmacists, the ones who aren't rules merchants know to keep quiet and hand over something as mediocre as nurofen

Sardonicat

Mad_maxx wrote: »

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Just curious. codeine is a opiate, though very weak one. Despite the concerns about addiction that forced pharmacists to move it out of site but still remain non-prescription i.e. over the counter, no one has lost their home over it to move onto a cardboard box. I don't here people stealing for money.

Since codeine is in the opiate family (hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diamorphine) and hasn't done much devestation, would you be in favor of making morphine otc?

If you're not then why? don't they all get converted into morphine in the liver? I suppose society is worried about theft but in all fairness, drug prices are caused by them being illegal and the bad dealers controlling the prices forcing desperate people to buy them. Nothing will stop people using drugs. If they were legalized and regulated and sold otc (oramorph for example), why would anyone steal to buy it? It would become just like nurofen.

We have an insanely puritanical culture in Ireland with regards the dispensing of painkillers, GP, s and pharmacists spend more time fretting over the possibility you might end up addicted to solpadeine than treating your ailment, prescribing paracetamol for even a headache is a bad joke, smarties are as strong

Paracetomal is an excellent painkiller for mild to moderate pain.

Sardonicat

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

The 'jobsworths ' don't love it at all. They are obliged to go through those guidelines by law.

Give over, I've probably bought a few boats down the years for pharmacists, the ones who aren't rules merchants know to keep quiet and hand over something as mediocre as nurofen

It's now illegal for a pharmacist sell codeine containing products off prescription without going through the guidelines. That's a fact.

Mad_maxx

Sardonicat wrote: »

Paracetomal is an excellent painkiller for mild to moderate pain.

Paracetamol is just about good enough for a mild headache, that they give it to people in hospital for anything from a broken rib to having had a difficult delivery is a bad joke

Paracetamol is weak as water

Gimme A Pound

Maxx, this is obviously really personal for you and I don't envy anyone who has to live with chronic pain, so I see where you're coming from to an extent, but from an objective perspective, it's not fair to dismiss someone who doesn't want to risk losing their job as a jobsworth. The problem is with the legislation, not the people who have to enforce it.

It's not wrong of a person not to risk landing in that kind of trouble.

Hedgelayer

I find disprins quite good for headache's, and a toothache.

They dissolve fast and are much faster than any codine.
My friends a nurse and I told her that neurofen or paracetamol doesn't kill the pain.
But a few disprins in water acts much quicker.

She explained some people have a different metabolism than others, something to do with neuroscience and transmission from one place to the other.

Mad_maxx

Hedgelayer wrote: »

I find disprins quite good for headache's, and a toothache.

They dissolve fast and are much faster than any codine.
My friends a nurse and I told her that neurofen or paracetamol doesn't kill the pain.
But a few disprins in water acts much quicker.

She explained some people have a different metabolism than others, something to do with neuroscience and transmission from one place to the other.

Disprin is even weaker than paracetamol, stuff your mum gives you when you're eight

The high horse brigade

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Disprin is even weaker than paracetamol, stuff your mum gives you when you're eight

They're only good for gargling when you have a sore throat

.......

I find the cultural attitude to pain in Ireland bizarre. You are fully expected to live with pain rather than be prescribed a decent painkiller. I have experienced it numerous times over the years. And then they want to experiment on you with trying the lowest level stuff one at a time until something works, so you can spend a full 24 hours in pain instead of just giving you something thats going to work in the first place!

I needed a root canal before, I was already in agone, and the dentist began it, but became ill herself and I was rushed out of the place and told to come back in next morning to finish it - once the anasthetic wore off I was in absolute agony - so bad I felt like smashing myself in the face with a sledgehammer just to take the pain away.

Anyway - off to the chemist.

Have you tried aspirin? Unfortunately I have aspirin sensitivity.
Have you tried paracetamol? Yes - and I am smashing my face with a sledgehammer because of the pain - it didnt do anything.
Have you tried Nurofen? I have ibuprofen intolerance, cant take it.
Well I could give you Solphadeine - but you know, the codeine.......

So I changed tack - do you have anything that will put me asleep from now until the dentist can take me back in? Because, you know, Im in ABSOLUTE DENTAL AGONY.

I was then recommended to go to my GP (and spend another 60 quid) to get prescribed something).

I had to do that. My GP is luckily not a sadist, and prescribed me copious amounts of anti inflammatories that are not ibuprofen based plus some decent pain killers (sophodol I think).

So a packet of Solphadeine probably would have done the trick, instead I ended up with a 6 month prescription for heavier duty drugs.

noubliezjamais

Interesting responses. I wonder if people think it's a case of Ireland underprescribing or the U.S. overprescribing?

The attitude In support of underprescription in Ireland that I've heard is that "at least we don't have the drug problem America has". That's doesn't seem true at all. In fact, one of the reasons the States has their opioid deaths isn't from overprescription but rather when patient were dependent (though on safe and pharmaceutical grade opiates)
on painkillers but were denied them or it became to expensive. They then turned to heroin and fentanyl.

I've even heard a former addict say the only time someone gets painkillers in UK/Ireland is if they are a former heroin addict (methadone) or have a terminal illness for palliative care.

Yer Da sells Avon

....... wrote: »

So a packet of Solphadeine probably would have done the trick, instead I ended up with a 6 month prescription for heavier duty drugs.

KevinCavan

There is man who highlighted the dangers of Neurofen for everybody...

secondrowgal

glasso wrote: »

I take paracetomal (1g) and ibruprofen (400mg) (non-plus) together at the same time when I get a migraine (unilateral throbbing).

they have different actions and both seem to help in their own way.

perfectly safe to do so.

There's an authorised combo now - it's called Easolief Duo in Ireland. It's 500 mg paracetamol, 150 mg Ibuprofen. I've seen the clinical trials on this drug and it's about 30% more effective than the individual components. It's all about the ratio of para to ibu and this 3.33:1 is more effective also than the 2.5:1 (1000 mg para, 400 mg ibu)