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Madeleine McCann

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    #4592
    mistersifter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    I get ya.

    For the photofit person to create something concrete out of a fleeting memory in this whole mind**** is either seriously talented or seriously chancing the arm. I feel the former is right and I was impressed by how she spoke about her work in general.

    I thought I had understood the case beforehand but I realized I know nothing after watching the netflix doc. So many leads and so much confusion, alot of which could have seemingly been avoided by better investigation early on. Overwhelming stuff that plays on your mind. It really is torture even thinking about who the f*ck took that poor child.


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    #4593
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Nonsense. A body has begun decomposing to such an extent that it has a different smell within 5 hours?
    Also, the McCanns had been at dinner before 10 which means the girl would have died, the crime scene cleaned, body disposed of and the parents back in time for dinner.
    That theory does not hold water.

    You doubt much.

    It's not a theory btw.

    You appear to disregard the expertise of many many police forces around the world who use dogs for this very purpose. Strange that.

    But then you clearly know more than them ...


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    #4594
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    I find it really odd that people want to dismiss the dogs so much including the McCanns.


    Martin Grimes is one of the most experienced people on the case


    30 years. Impeccable record.


    Why as a mother wold you be happy the dogs "evidence" cannot be used in court.


    Why do most people who dismiss the dogs know so little about them.


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    #4595
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    limnam wrote: »
    I find it really odd that people want to dismiss the dogs so much including the McCanns. Martin Grimes is one of the most experienced people on the case 30 years. Impeccable record.Why as a mother wold you be happy the dogs "evidence" cannot be used in court.Why do most people who dismiss the dogs know so little about them.


    The thing is. The child disappeared. The dogs were brought in on the advice of one of the UK leading police detectives.

    I do not understand why the parents were so against the use of such methods (used throughout the world) when clearly this had the potential to at least find out if there were indications that something had happened to the child whilst alone in the apartment.

    Surely to God any parent would be more than happy even if as it turned out, the follow up forensic examinations were found not to be conclusive.

    And yet the same parents were willing to pay for some highly controversial hocus pocus guy from South Africa who said he could locate the child alive or dead using a strand of hair in conjunction with a device he had invented himself...

    I just dont know. None of this makes any sense whatsoever ...


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    #4596
    Creol1
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    Something Else
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its a cop out to suggest that the police just wanted an open and shut case.

    No pun intended.


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    #4597
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    gozunda wrote: »

    And yet the same parents were willing to pay for some highly controversial hocus pocus guy from South Africa who said he could locate the child alive or dead using a strand of hair in conjunction with a device he had invented himself...


    The difference with this is they can show they're happy to have it done safely knowing there was no way for him to find anything. They're doctors. They knew he was talking out of his hat


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    #4598
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    I find it really odd that people want to dismiss the dogs so much including the McCanns.


    Martin Grimes is one of the most experienced people on the case


    30 years. Impeccable record.

    I think people are dismissing the dogs but outside them, there isn't really any other supporting evidence for that theory.

    Then there are eyewitness accounts of creepy pedo men. About the complex, going door to door collecting money for a faux orphanage and even a near miss of another girl almost being abducted.

    I think people prefer the parents did it theory as it makes the world out to be a safer place.


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    #4599
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    OwlsZat wrote:
    I think people are dismissing the dogs becaude outside them there isn't really any other evidence of any type that supports the murder by parents theory.


    Outside of the dogs reaction, there is no evidence of anything. Not murder by her parents/ abduction/ accidental death. Feel free to add your own as there is as much evidence for anything you can dream up as there is for what I have stated.


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    #4600
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    eh bring the jaysis twins, oh right they cant walk, they're rohypnolled off their box. Leave them with your peado mate dave so.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I could not help but smile at that. :P
    .
    limnam wrote: »
    Probably shouldn't but I thought it was hillarious too.


    A sad state of affairs that anyone would find such a disgusting comment funny. But sadly not at all surprising.


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    #4601
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    I find it really odd that people want to dismiss the dogs so much including the McCanns.


    Martin Grimes is one of the most experienced people on the case


    30 years. Impeccable record.


    Why as a mother wold you be happy the dogs "evidence" cannot be used in court.


    Why do most people who dismiss the dogs know so little about them.
    As has been pointed out many times, including by the dog handler himself, the dogs are merely an investigative tool. They point investigators in the direction of possible evidence, but they do not provide evidence themselves.

    In the McCann case, the dogs indicated the possibility of evidence, numerous samples were taken and tested, but they came up empty.


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    #4602
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    With _no_ evidence of an abduction.


    We have dogs with a 98% success rate on detection alerting in the apartment.


    Dog alerting in the car.


    A stream of lies and deception from the tapas 9.


    Based on that, isn't it odd that abduction was the most likely?


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    #4603
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Phoebas wrote: »
    As has been pointed out many times, including by the dog handler himself, the dogs are merely an investigative tool. They point investigators in the direction of possible evidence, but they do not provide evidence themselves.

    In the McCann case, the dogs indicated the possibility of evidence, numerous samples were taken and tested, but they came up empty.


    How do you come up empty on the dog detecting death?


    The only way to come up trumps is to find a body?


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    #4604
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    limnam wrote:
    Based on that, isn't it odd that abduction was the most likely?


    Even odder that it was the only line of enquiry the Met was to follow according to Colin Sutton.


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    #4605
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Maybe there was a coconut in the car? We all know how much Eddie loves them.


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    #4606
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Maybe there was a coconut in the car? We all know how much Eddie loves them.


    I'm not sure how eddie's eating habits forced the tapas 9 to create a stream of lies and deception...


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    #4607
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    retro:electro wrote: »
    A sad state of affairs that anyone would find such a disgusting comment funny. But sadly not at all surprising.


    It's the way ye tell em.


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    #4608
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    How do you come up empty on the dog detecting death?


    The only way to come up trumps is to find a body?

    There are a lot of places to go between the indications of a dog and a body.

    In this case forensic evidence was sought following the indications from the dogs. But it wasn't found.


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    #4609
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There are a lot of places to go between the indications of a dog and a body.

    In this case forensic evidence was sought following the indications from the dogs. But it wasn't found.


    That doesn't take away from the dog alerting on a dead body.


    The fact she was never found is not indicative of the dog not alerting correctly


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    #4610
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Phoebas wrote: »
    limnam wrote: »
    How do you come up empty on the dog detecting death?


    The only way to come up trumps is to find a body?

    There are a lot of places to go between the indications of a dog and a body.

    In this case forensic evidence was sought following the indications from the dogs. But it wasn't found.
    I think that's the main thing... The dog pointed towards something but the scientific evidence didn't back it up. Amaral suggests the evidence possibly tampered with in the UK..


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    #4611
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    micks_address wrote: »
    I think that's the main thing... The dog pointed towards something but the scientific evidence didn't back it up. Amaral suggests the evidence possibly tampered with in the UK..


    There's two dogs.


    I'm referring to the cavender dog who alerted on the scent of a dead body.


    He either alerted correctly or he didn't no scientist can determine that.


    Considering their success rate on detection after 10 minutes of exposure is 98% it's hard to outright dismiss it


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    #4612
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    That doesn't take away from the dog alerting on a dead body.


    The fact she was never found is not indicative of the dog not alerting correctly
    It precisely does take away from the dog alerting on a dead body.

    The dog alerted, samples were taken and tested. No forensic evidence was found. That is precisely indicative of the dog not alerting correctly.


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    #4613
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It precisely does take away from the dog alerting on a dead body.

    The dog alerted, samples were taken and tested. No forensic evidence was found. That is precisely indicative of the dog not alerting correctly.


    What samples / tests were done to prove there was never a dead body in the apartment?

    not to mention something that came into contact with one was there at some point would alert also...

    how do you test against that?


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    #4614
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    An alert is just an alert. It is absolutely meaningless and worthless if there’s nothing weighty and substantial to back it up, which there wasn’t. They lead people to evidence, alerts aren’t evidence in and of themselves. I believe the dog’s own handler even said as much in the documentary:


    ”There never did emerge one single identical match for the DNA of Madeleine McCann," investigative reporter and researcher Robbyn Swan explains.

    “Expert dog handler Martin Grime says that an alert from the cadaver dogs was not enough on its own; it was only ever intended as an indicator for the investigators to look for possible corroborating evidence – which, in this case, they did not find”


    But sure, it’s not like that hasn’t been said a thousand times before on this thread *shrugs*


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    #4615
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    micks_address wrote: »
    I think that's the main thing... The dog pointed towards something but the scientific evidence didn't back it up. Amaral suggests the evidence possibly tampered with in the UK..

    Ameral has said a lot of bizarre things about this case, including various allegations of tampering and cover up.

    He is a disgraced, convicted crooked cop whose word cannot be relied on alone.


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    #4616
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    What samples / tests were done to prove there was never a dead body in the apartment?

    not to mention something that came into contact with one was there at some point would alert also...

    how do you test against that?

    Various samples were gathered from the place the dog indicated and DNA and other forensic tests were carried out.

    While no tests are infallible, we can only go with what was found, not with what might have been found if it existed.


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    #4617
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Even odder that it was the only line of enquiry the Met was to follow according to Colin Sutton.

    The Met were never going to solve this case so what the Met did, said or otherwise is irrelevant. The only people in a position, and with the legal authority to investigate and solve the case were in Portugal - who, by the way, investigated the McCanns thoroughly, with their main theory being the McCanns were responsible and most of Amaral's efforts being spent on trying to prove it.

    I would love to see a Panorama quality investigation into Amaral and what he and his got up to in this and other related investigations like the treatment of Joana Cipriano. The leaks of case details and smearing of the McCanns is unprecedented, anywhere, that I am aware of. I am astonished this aspect of the case has never been told as a story in it's own right. I suppose it would shine too strong a light on the Portuguese and British tabloid media. A bit like getting the Police to investigate the Police.


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    #4618
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Ameral has said a lot of bizarre things about this case, including various allegations of tampering and cover up.

    He is a disgraced, convicted crooked cop whose word cannot be relied on alone.


    Considering scotland yard pushing an abduction only line of enquriy

    held back statments for months etc


    It's hardly a wild allegation is it?

    convicted crooks was the McCann's privatley hired search team...


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    #4619
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    cnocbui wrote: »
    The Met were never going to solve this case so what the Met did, said or otherwise is irrelevant. The only people in a position, and with the legal authority to investigate and solve the case were in Portugal - who, by the way, investigated the McCanns thoroughly, with their main theory being the McCanns were responsible and most of Amaral's efforts being spent on trying to prove it.

    I would love to see a Panorama quality investigation into Amaral and what he and his got up to in this and other related investigations like the treatment of Joana Cipriano. The leaks of case details and smearing of the McCanns is unprecedented, anywhere, that I am aware of. I am astonished this aspect of the case has never been told as a story in it's own right. I suppose it would shine too strong a light on the Portuguese and British tabloid media. A bit like getting the Police to investigate the Police.


    It's difficult to investigate when the people your trying to assist are stone

    walling and creating a stream of lies and deception creating suspicion



    Then flee the country when the suspicion they created is been investigated.


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    #4620
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    The Met were never going to solve this case so what the Met did, said or otherwise is irrelevant. The only people in a position, and with the legal authority to investigate and solve the case were in Portugal - who, by the way, investigated the McCanns thoroughly, with their main theory being the McCanns were responsible and most of Amaral's efforts being spent on trying to prove it.


    The Met has been investigating since 2010 with the cooperation/permission of the Portuguese authorities. Hard to solve a case when you starting point is with one hand tied behind your back, figuratively speaking.
    If as you say the Met never going to solve why spend millions of British taxpayers money, curious.
    Lastly I have seen some bizarre and dismissive commentary here but yours is by far the most outlandish to-date.


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    #4621
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »

    It's hardly a wild allegation is it?

    ...
    He didn't back it up with evidence.
    It was made by someone who has made other wild allegations about this case.
    It was made by a disgraced convicted crooked cop.

    That's as close to a dictionary definition of a wild allegation as you'd find.


This discussion has been closed.
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