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Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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  • Options
    #7262
    Zenify
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Zenify


    tobsey wrote: »
    And do what in the meantime? The last crash took 4 years to reach the bottom. There’s no sign of it happening yet. So you could be 5-6 years away from the bottom maybe.

    Alternatively, they buy now, fix for 5 years and pay considerably less than rent, and have a home that’s theirs for as long as they want. I was hit bad by the last crash. The advice I’d give to anyone is buy a house you’d be happy to stay in for life, then the price doesn’t matter too much


    Property prices dropped just under 30% in 2 years when the crash started last time. You'd be crazy to turn that offer down. I'm not saying we're going to have a crash but your argument is flawed to disregard it. You don't have to wait for the bottom. A lot can happen fast, the higher up you go the harder you will fall!

    Prices could go up 30% in the next 2 years too, but that only means they will fall even harder in the following years. Property prices in Ireland are overpriced compared to what people can afford.

    This leads onto your second point. Nobody is happy with what they can afford out there. Every purchase I know of has been made out of desperation. Buying to avoid high rent and making lots of sacrifices because of affordability and FOMO! Buying a house that you can accept/settle with for life is what is going on. Happiness is not an emotion felt in the current property market.


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    #7263
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Zenify wrote: »
    Property prices dropped just under 30% in 2 years when the crash started last time. You'd be crazy to turn that offer down. I'm not saying we're going to have a crash but your argument is flawed to disregard it. You don't have to wait for the bottom. A lot can happen fast, the higher up you go the harder you will fall!

    Prices could go up 30% in the next 2 years too, but that only means they will fall even harder in the following years. Property prices in Ireland are overpriced compared to what people can afford.

    This leads onto your second point. Nobody is happy with what they can afford out there. Every purchase I know of has been made out of desperation. Buying to avoid high rent and making lots of sacrifices because of affordability and FOMO! Buying a house that you can accept/settle with for life is what is going on. Happiness is not an emotion felt in the current property market.

    People here were banging this drum from the start of covid. The opposite has happened. Until or if supply increases significantly, there isn't a going to be a decrease, never mind a crash. The supply at the moment is absolutely miniscule.


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    #7264
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    To add to the above, if you’re at a stage of life where you’re looking to buy and then settle down and have kids, that’s not something you can necessarily put off til the next crash. Especially if you’re living in a poor/unsuitable rental.


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    #7265
    Zenify
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Zenify


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    To add to the above, if you’re at a stage of life where you’re looking to buy and then settle down and have kids, that’s not something you can necessarily put off til the next crash. Especially if you’re living in a poor/unsuitable rental.

    I completely agree. That all feeds into my point about desperation. People have to buy because of life.

    Also to the previous post I'm not saying there will be a crash.


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    #7266
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Here's one for you all, be interested in seeing what you think.

    Went sale agreed on a property in an area we really want to live. Ticks all of our boxes, including an outside area which has been proving to be difficult to get.

    There's an older shopping centre directly behind the house. I decided to see if there were any plans to redevelop it and what do you know, there are.

    I was initially excited at the prospect first, until seeing the plans. There's a six storey monstrosity to be erected directly behind the house!

    A huge part of this purchase was to be able to sit out back with nobody overlooking, now there's the prospect of six storeys of windows looking down - and then there's the blotting out the sun issue.

    What would you dudes do? I feel like we should be running for the hills but at the same time would feel like an eejit if the plan never went ahead?


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    #7267
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    o1s1n wrote: »
    A huge part of this purchase was to be able to sit out back with nobody overlooking, now there's the prospect of six storeys of windows looking down - and then there's the blotting out the sun issue.

    What would you dudes do? I feel like we should be running for the hills but at the same time would feel like an eejit if the plan never went ahead?

    Depends entirely on two things:

    1. Odds on it being built at any stage over the next 25 years, which probably depends heavily on where it is. If you want to let us know where it is, then someone here may have a better idea.
    2. Are you sure that the apartments have a direct view over your house? That's a bit unusual, as is the 'blotting out of the sun'. It's possible the side looking over your house will have little or no windows, or will be stepped back from your row of houses. I'd be looking at the planning permission a lot closer if I were you.

    I lived abroad for a long time where I guess it's more common to have people looking in on top of you so it may not bother me too much, but I'd be in a minority here I think.


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    #7268
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ebayissues


    Run, run and don't look back.

    Sunlight will be blocked, house is will miserable, when you want to sell, offers will definitely be lower than PP.

    Going ahead with purchasing means you've locked in a loss already.


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    #7269
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    It's the redevelopment of the Park Shopping centre site in Stoneybatter. They're making a very large student accommodation and shopping complex with six storey buildings to the south and 8 storey to the north.

    There were a few houses we liked in the vicinity and they were all a bit cheaper than usual, i think I now know why.


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    #7270
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,277 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I have a ~15 year old house located well outside of Dublin in one the of the cheapest parts of the country. Thinking of selling up shortly. House is within commutable distance of Dublin but it would be a miserable commute. Has demand for properties such as this started to "go mad" yet?

    For the last few years, anytime I had any builder in doing work, I had the following conversation:

    Builder: that's a nice house, how much do you think it's worth now
    Me: x
    Builder: you wouldn't rebuild it for that even if you got the land for free
    Me: I know, that's why i have it insured for y.
    Builder: yeah, that's about right

    Are house values well outside of Dublin getting closer to what it would cost to rebuild them - or is the increase in building costs and materials counteracting this.


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    #7271
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    o1s1n wrote: »
    It's the redevelopment of the Park Shopping centre site in Stoneybatter. They're making a very large student accommodation and shopping complex with six storey buildings to the south and 8 storey to the north.

    There were a few houses we liked in the vicinity and they were all a bit cheaper than usual, i think I now know why.

    That'll definitely be redeveloped very soon as it's prime real estate. Grangegorman campus just down the road too. A good lot of the apartments will be rented to students so late night noise could be an issue at certain times of the year.

    Also the more likely it is to be students then the more invasions of privacy you'll have to put up with if balconies are facing your garden.

    Along with that, up to 2 years of demolition/construction dust and noise. Maybe longer if they do it in phases.


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    #7272
    tobsey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭tobsey


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    I have a ~15 year old house located well outside of Dublin in one the of the cheapest parts of the country. Thinking of selling up shortly. House is within commutable distance of Dublin but it would be a miserable commute. Has demand for properties such as this started to "go mad" yet?

    For the last few years, anytime I had any builder in doing work, I had the following conversation:

    Builder: that's a nice house, how much do you think it's worth now
    Me: x
    Builder: you wouldn't rebuild it for that even if you got the land for free
    Me: I know, that's why i have it insured for y.
    Builder: yeah, that's about right

    Are house values well outside of Dublin getting closer to what it would cost to rebuild them - or is the increase in building costs and materials counteracting this.

    Just call a few local estate agents. They’ll give you a free estimate of what they expect it to achieve. Pick the middle one. Some agents will push the estimate higher to entice you to go with them for the sale.


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    #7273
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    These episodes always end in a crash. Save your money.

    When the issue is supply i can't see there ever being another crash . A plateau more like


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    #7274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    o1s1n wrote: »
    It's the redevelopment of the Park Shopping centre site in Stoneybatter. They're making a very large student accommodation and shopping complex with six storey buildings to the south and 8 storey to the north.

    There were a few houses we liked in the vicinity and they were all a bit cheaper than usual, i think I now know why.

    I would imagine that will definitely go ahead. I would also imagine the houses you are looking at are limited in their outside space?
    If the building will be directly at your back fence and overlooking you, I wouldn't like it. It depends on how much you feel overlooked.

    I saw a new build a couple of years ago, perfect, South facing garden etc. Was looking at the plans and asked what the future development behind was, I presumed a row of houses, turned out to be a four storey apartment block, the whole length of the road. Didn't buy!


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    #7275
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,277 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    tobsey wrote: »
    Just call a few local estate agents. They’ll give you a free estimate of what they expect it to achieve. Pick the middle one. Some agents will push the estimate higher to entice you to go with them for the sale.
    Thanks, I treat everything an estate agent says with scepticism but think the agent I have in mind for my sale is one of the few good guys. Expensive though.

    As usual in Ireland, whether we are in a boom or a bust, the property market is dysfunctional and there are snakes everywhere.

    My family sold a property in 2011 (probate sale) and I strongly suspect that the estate agent was not acting honestly for us and had a vested interest in keeping the selling price low.

    Another suspicion is that there is physical cash being exchanged to keep official selling prices low for tax evasion/CGT purposes, I had an estate agent propose this strategy to me during the boom and based on how casually he suggested it wasn't the first time. Throw the builder 30k in 50 euro notes, get the house cheaper.


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    #7276
    Mr Hindley
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Mr Hindley


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    When the issue is supply i can't see there ever being another crash . A plateau more like


    One source of supply that I haven't seen mentioned on here for a while is apartments being freed up, ideally all those high-end apartments sitting empty which, if fed into the market for sale instead, would have knock-on effects elsewhere in the chain. Or existing landlords selling up for various reasons - need to realise the capital, tenants can't pay the rent etc. The latter, of course, just feeds the existing tenants back into the system of needing somewhere to live - try to buy somewhere, try to rent somewhere else, onto the social housing list so the councils hoover up even more properties... :(


    Do people think we might start seeing more apartments entering entering the market over the coming year as supports are withdrawn and companies sitting on high-end apartments decide maybe it's time to leave the market?


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    #7277
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭ec18


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Anyone know, if you put a booking deposit on a new build, not finished, can you get it back of you change your mind?

    yes you can pull out and get your booking deposit back up to when you sign contracts


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    #7278
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,638 ✭✭✭C14N


    FrankN1 wrote: »
    When this equity scheme comes in will new houses not just rise 30pc?

    Depends. Like the HTB, I don't think it will affect Dublin at all, because it applies to new builds only and there isn't a new build in sight that is cheap enough in the first place to be eligible for it, unless maybe you're looking out to really far-flung place like Balbriggan or somewhere like that. Seems like a bad idea right now to turn the heat up even more on the market, but the scheme also seems like its ineffectual enough that it will more likely end up being useless than actively detrimental.

    I don't really get why government schemes are so focused on giving people money to buy houses. We have a shortage, more money isn't going to make more of them appear, it's just going to make trying to get one more competitive. The more obvious thing to help would be to somehow try to reduce demand to discourage buying (such as buying extra properties as investments) or to encourage increasing the supply (like some kind of incentive for people in high-demand areas to sell, and possibly to upzone these areas to increase density somewhat).
    o1s1n wrote: »
    Here's one for you all, be interested in seeing what you think.

    Went sale agreed on a property in an area we really want to live. Ticks all of our boxes, including an outside area which has been proving to be difficult to get.

    There's an older shopping centre directly behind the house. I decided to see if there were any plans to redevelop it and what do you know, there are.

    I was initially excited at the prospect first, until seeing the plans. There's a six storey monstrosity to be erected directly behind the house!

    A huge part of this purchase was to be able to sit out back with nobody overlooking, now there's the prospect of six storeys of windows looking down - and then there's the blotting out the sun issue.

    What would you dudes do? I feel like we should be running for the hills but at the same time would feel like an eejit if the plan never went ahead?

    Honestly, I wouldn't bother trying to pull out. You don't own any land around your own and living in the city you have to expect that new development will happen around you pretty much all the time, so nothing will ever really be guaranteed. If it doesn't happen now, it'll happen in a year or two, and the same risk will apply in most places close to where you are buying. If it's a really huge turnoff then you could pull out and consider trying to buy elsewhere, but probably somewhere pretty far from Stoneybatter.


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    #7279
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    C14N wrote: »

    Honestly, I wouldn't bother trying to pull out. You don't own any land around your own and living in the city you have to expect that new development will happen around you pretty much all the time, so nothing will ever really be guaranteed. If it doesn't happen now, it'll happen in a year or two, and the same risk will apply in most places close to where you are buying. If it's a really huge turnoff then you could pull out and consider trying to buy elsewhere, but probably somewhere pretty far from Stoneybatter.

    I honestly don't mind there being developments around me and was actually quite interested in a few spots around the new O'Devaney Gardens project as after looking at the plans, the larger buildings were going to be at the college end with houses closer to Stoneybatter.

    Pulled out of the sale this morning, EA was absolutely fine and has some alternative houses for us to look at.

    Here's the picture that scared the bejasus out of me. That building in the background would continue on the left all the way to it's entrance on Prussia Street.

    The wall directly behind the house would be for truck deliveries. I can imagine that mezzanine with the trees (as cool as it is as a thing) would be a huge source of noise.

    parkshd2.jpg


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    #7280
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    o1s1n wrote: »
    I honestly don't mind there being developments around me and was actually quite interested in a few spots around the new O'Devaney Gardens project as after looking at the plans, the larger buildings were going to be at the college end with houses closer to Stoneybatter.

    Pulled out of the sale this morning, EA was absolutely fine and has some alternative houses for us to look at.

    Here's the picture that scared the bejasus out of me. That building in the background would continue on the left all the way to it's entrance on Prussia Street.

    The wall directly behind the house would be for truck deliveries. I can imagine that mezzanine with the trees (as cool as it is as a thing) would be a huge source of noise.

    parkshd2.jpg

    Wow.....I don’t know how anyone could stay in having seen that picture, artists impression or not!


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    #7281
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    When the issue is supply i can't see there ever being another crash . A plateau more like

    When people start saying "this time it's different" is a sign the real madness is about to happen. All surges are followed by crashes, not plateaus.


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    #7282
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    Thanks, I treat everything an estate agent says with scepticism but think the agent I have in mind for my sale is one of the few good guys. Expensive though.

    As usual in Ireland, whether we are in a boom or a bust, the property market is dysfunctional and there are snakes everywhere.

    My family sold a property in 2011 (probate sale) and I strongly suspect that the estate agent was not acting honestly for us and had a vested interest in keeping the selling price low.

    Another suspicion is that there is physical cash being exchanged to keep official selling prices low for tax evasion/CGT purposes, I had an estate agent propose this strategy to me during the boom and based on how casually he suggested it wasn't the first time. Throw the builder 30k in 50 euro notes, get the house cheaper.

    If it was a new build CGT wouldn't be the issue for cash.


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    #7283
    Wandering2021
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Wandering2021


    Sale agreed! Crossing all my fingers and toes that it all goes okay from here...


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    #7284
    CalisGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭CalisGirl


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    When people start saying "this time it's different" is a sign the real madness is about to happen. All surges are followed by crashes, not plateaus.
    It's a tough one because house prices seem to have gone crazy in the last 6 months. It could be they the media has only started covering rising house prices recently, thereby exaggerating the situation.
    However, there sure seem to be a huge shortage of housing supply in Ireland and that seems backed by the official data. Also, a lot of people looking at houses currently will have good savings after the pandemic and have decided that now is as good a time as any to buy.
    So long term shortage of houses in addition to people WFH with good savings would lead to increased prices.


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    #7285
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    When people start saying "this time it's different" is a sign the real madness is about to happen. All surges are followed by crashes, not plateaus.

    This time it is different :D

    The real madness would be to not to look at the actual causes and instead just say it's a bubble/it's 2007 all over again etc.

    EDIT: we're probably in the wrong thread for this discussion


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    #7286
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    javaboy wrote: »
    This time it is different :D

    The real madness would be to not to look at the actual causes and instead just say it's a bubble/it's 2007 all over again etc.

    EDIT: we're probably in the wrong thread for this discussion

    It doesn't matter what the cause is, it always ends the same way.


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    #7287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what the cause is, it always ends the same way.

    It does. But that’s the easy part to predict

    It’s the timing that’s important. And I don’t see it for a few years. And if I were looking to start a family in my own home, or had other real reasons for buying on a long term (non investment) basis, I wouldn’t be waiting. Life would be literally passing in front of my eyes


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    #7288
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,394 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what the cause is, it always ends the same way.

    When will it end?
    Do you suggest avoiding the whole thing till "it ends"?


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    #7289
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what the cause is, it always ends the same way.

    Are you referring to crashes? 'Always' tends to suggest a pattern of events that occur with some regularity. How many have there been in the last 60 years?


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    #7290
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    folks please take the general property market/speculation chatter to the 2021 Irish Property Market chat thread

    Do not reply to this post.


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    #7291
    Mr Hindley
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Mr Hindley


    Wandering2021 wrote: »
    Sale agreed! Crossing all my fingers and toes that it all goes okay from here...


    Congratulations!! Hope all goes well from here.


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