Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

WinnyThePoo · 10-05-2019 5:20pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

Rachel Abbotts

Don't worry if you missed it, there are fresh ones very regularly.

I hadn't heard of her, it seems she addressed it and the replies seem to (rightly from what I can tell) be calling bullsh*t.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rachel_abbotts/status/1126115805131956226

If only some people on this thread had your googlin' skills.

blackwhite · 10-05-2019 5:45pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Indeed.

Writing the foreword for, and giving effusive praise for, a re-issuance of book that was written by a high-profile anti-semite, that claims the Jews control the world banking system and the media, and the Jewish controlled "agents" were a background force pushing for imperial colonialism - amazing that anyone would think that to be a hint of anti-semitic leanings :rolleyes:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/corbyn-endorsed-book-about-jews-controlling-banks-and-the-press-x6nd73jrq

Funny how big the blind spot certain folk have for any transgressions once the perpetrator aligns with their political views.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 5:47pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Its anti-semitism.

Its nothing to do with Palestine. I've Palestinians they would never speak like this.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/swathe-of-antisemitic-abuse-is-uncovered-at-group-backed-by-jeremy-corbyn-a4136681.html

This not by Palestinians this by white christian people who have joined a lobby group.

Most Israelis ironically are Mizrahim meaning they are not white but actually Arab Jews they are traditionally the most nationalist and right wing Israelis. They speak Arabic a lot at home as well as hewbrew and share a lot of Arab culture. And the Ashkenazi (european Jews ) are more leftest and less nationalist.

Some mizrahim are from north Africa some from the middle east etc.

I've heard these white christian activists say they want all israelis to go back to where they came from etc. Well over half or them are from the middle east etc Syria Yemen place they were kicked out of.

Even palestinians see Mizrahi and Ashkenazi differently.

BTW if you call a mizrahi jew an arab jew they might actually be offended at this stage.

Palestinian activists usually have not got a clue about what palestinians want. They think Palestine wants a 2 state solution. That is what Israel wants. Palestinians want a one giant bi national state.

I have no idea what the solution will look like. But I feel solidarity between Palestinians and Israelis for peace is growing.

The west should butt out they have made a mess of everything in that area and CLEARLY know nothing about it.

Now having said all this the Tories are anti Semitic too.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 6:21pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Funny how big the blind spot certain folk have for any transgressions once the perpetrator aligns with their political views.

I see anti-semitism on both sides and tolerance on both sides.

Its a consistent law of politics.

I feel the west is very ignorant about the middle east though. They assume its like Europe with clear defined nationalities in each state.

Europe doesn't want jews in Europe nor do they want Jews in Israel.

That's the truth.

To be anti Israeli is different to opposing certain things about Israeli foreign policy in a very complex conflict.

Just like being anti British is different to being anti British foreign policy on some issues.

Very few of these activists seem aware that israel GAVE BACK gaza to palestine.

They withdrew the army and dismantles ALL israeli settlements in gaza it was called the "Hitnatkut".

Anyway they have reached a ceasefire. Eygpt is going to enforce it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+palestine+ceasefire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

I dunno what the UK wants.

If hundreds of rockets were fired into the UK causing schools to close and everyone had to go into bomb shelters every time sirens went off i don't know what the UK would do.

Public bomb shelters are a common site all around israel they are built by the govt. Frequently buildings are destroyed by rockets. And Israelis and Palestinians die.

No one wants peace more than Israel. I know that Palestinians want it too.

I know that Palestinians have suffered too. Everyone just wants it to end.

This is Israel this is what Israelis have to live with every day every week.

If everyone could highlight and praise the ceasefire efforts it might encourage both sides.

No one seems to be talking about it.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 6:41pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Very few of these activists seem aware that israel GAVE BACK gaza to palestine.

They withdrew the army and dismantles ALL israeli settlements in gaza it was called the "Hitnatkut".

............

It took roughly 30,000 troops to guard a settler population of about 8,000. As a result the decision was taken to concentrate efforts on the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and the Golan. This had the added bonus of wrong footing the Palestinians politically.

"A top Israeli official has claimed that Ariel Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan was deliberately formulated to block peace negotiations with Yasser Arafat."

"When you freeze [the peace] process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the [Palestinian] refugees, the borders and Jerusalem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3720176.stm

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

This is Israel this is what Israelis have to live with every day every week.

1 - no, it isn't. Take a look at the death tolls for an idea of whose really on the receiving end.

2 - Israel - by building colonies for its citizens in the West Bank etc - is the aggressor. There's no if buts or maybes.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 6:54pm

Odhinn wrote: »

It took roughly 30,000 troops to guard a settler population of about 8,000. As a result the decision was taken to concentrate efforts on the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and the Golan. This had the added bonus of wrong footing the Palestinians politically.

"A top Israeli official has claimed that Ariel Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan was deliberately formulated to block peace negotiations with Yasser Arafat."

"When you freeze [the peace] process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the [Palestinian] refugees, the borders and Jerusalem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3720176.stm

1 - no, it isn't. Take a look at the death tolls for an idea of whose really on the receiving end.

2 - Israel - by building colonies for its citizens in the West Bank etc - is the aggressor. There's no if buts or maybes.

The above is a strange conspiracy idea that makes no sense. Why would the Israelis WANT hamas to gain power you think they like being killed?

That is because Israelis build bomb shelters for their people and they play sirens. Hamas doesn't let people leave and gives them no warning.

They withdrew from gaza and were attacked. So its clear if they withdraw from the west bank they will be attacked.

White Christian Palestinian activists. 'We want Israel to end the occupation of Gaza ' Israel ends the occupation of gaza. The PA proves it cannot govern gaza. White Christian Palestinian activists 'THIS IS ISRAEL'S FAULT'.

By that reasoning you should be arguing Israel should govern ALL of Palestine then.

Its clear the PA nor Hamas can.

You realize that Israel has to even collect tax for the Palestinian govt?

The death toll disparity is not due to agression levels on either side. Its the level of extreme effort that israel goes to protect EVERY LEVEL of its society equally from the conflict,EVEN PALESTINIANS LIVING IN Israel and the level to which the PA and Hamas puts its own people at risk.

What do you think also of the new ceasefire and the fact that Eygpt is going to enforce it?

Do you think Hamas will keep to it or play to manipulate?

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:01pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The above is a strange conspiracy idea that makes no sense. Why would the Israelis WANT hamas to gain power you think they like being killed?

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.

Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

T
That is because Israelis build bomb shelters for their people and they play sirens. Hamas doesn't let people leave and gives them no warning.

...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They withdrew from gaza and were attacked. So its clear if they withdraw from the west bank they will be attacked.

They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

You realize that Israel has to even collect tax for the Palestinian govt?

They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:09pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.

Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?

...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.

They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.

They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

They allow goods and people to cross daily they just need a permit.

What about the Egyptian border and the fact that Egypt occupies the west bank?

Dov Weisglass is not a reliable source he was only an official for a couple of months. And that was years after the withdrawal.

He also denies a lot of what he says sometimes and goes back on what he says.

I don't give his opinion much credit.

Also if what he says is true. Then you are saying Palestinians can never really have their own state. And that it would basically go the way of Syria and Afghanistan etc. Which is what most Israelis think anyway.

I presume then you want a one bi national state in which Israeli civil service structures etc serve the entire area? Only its called palestine. Which is really what Palestinians want.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:13pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They allow goods and people to cross daily they just need a permit.

What about the Egyptian border and the fact that Egypt occupies the west bank?

Dov Weisglass is not a reliable source he was only an official for a couple of months. And that was years after the withdrawal.

He also denies a lot of what he says sometimes and goes back on what he says.

I don't give his opinion much credit.

Also if what he says is true. Then you are saying Palestinians can never really have their own state. And that it would basically go the way of Syria and Afghanistan etc. Which is what most Israelis think anyway.

I presume then you want a one bi national state in which Israeli civil service structures etc serve the entire area? Only its called palestine. Which is really what Palestinians want.

I believe that the Palestinians will be allowed small pockets of land in the West Bank where they can - in name at least - "self govern". Effectively they will be like the bantustans in the old apartheid era south africa - places to coral the "natives" and act as a source of cheap labour.

.......hardly bi-national state if Israel governs all of it. A single state solution is a non-runner for a few reasons, not the least of which is the fact that virtually every israeli party is against the notion.

James Brown · 10-05-2019 7:13pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its anti-semitism.

Its nothing to do with Palestine. I've Palestinians they would never speak like this.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/swathe-of-antisemitic-abuse-is-uncovered-at-group-backed-by-jeremy-corbyn-a4136681.html

This not by Palestinians this by white christian people who have joined a lobby group.

Most Israelis ironically are Mizrahim meaning they are not white but actually Arab Jews they are traditionally the most nationalist and right wing Israelis. They speak Arabic a lot at home as well as hewbrew and share a lot of Arab culture. And the Ashkenazi (european Jews ) are more leftest and less nationalist.

Some mizrahim are from north Africa some from the middle east etc.

I've heard these white christian activists say they want all israelis to go back to where they came from etc. Well over half or them are from the middle east etc Syria Yemen place they were kicked out of.

Even palestinians see Mizrahi and Ashkenazi differently.

...

Palestinian activists usually have not got a clue about what palestinians want. They think Palestine wants a 2 state solution. That is what Israel wants. Palestinians want a one giant bi national state.

I have no idea what the solution will look like. But I feel solidarity between Palestinians and Israelis for peace is growing.

The west should butt out they have made a mess of everything in that area and CLEARLY know nothing about it.

Now having said all this the Tories are anti Semitic too.

I thought we were talking anti-semetism and centering on Jeremy Corbyn? I never mentioned Palestine or Israel in the comment.
Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design. You can be anti Israeli policy without being anti-semetic. Palestine needs the world to butt in IMO, lest they be wiped out completely.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution.

Back to my point, there's more anti-corbyn than a genuine care or outrage for anti-semetism in many of the comments. Is Corbyn a serious threat to Jews? I don't think so. I'd be looking at Britain First and the like. Once they run out of visible minorities to hate they'll concentrate on others.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:16pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I posted an article quoting an Israeli official, you might read it. You might then reflect on how the "peace process" has essentially been frozen ever since, as was predicted by said official.

Where did I say anything about Hamas, or Hamas coming to power...?

...when they attack. Again, you might look at the rate of deaths on a yearly basis to see who is really attacking who.

They withdrew their colonies/settlements from Gaza. They still control its borders, what goes in and out etc. Essentially its an open air prison in many ways.

They do so to help maintain control over the "palestinian authority". It's often witheld to get them to toe the line on one issue or another.

True. Usually after Hamas bombs them. Its still not helpful though.

Both parties agreed to the paris protocol.

But the PA /Hamas also starves its people rather do something it had already agreed to. It refuses to take the money sometimes when the govt feels insulted. IMO Israelis need to at least on an official level be more diplomatic more respectful honor is important to Palestine.

Also Israel never WANTED to collect tax for palestine its part of the Paris Protocol.

Israel WANTS Palestine to have its own totally independent state it just doesn't want to be attacked.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:21pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I thought we were talking anti-semetism and centering on Jeremy Corbyn? I never mentioned Palestine or Israel in the comment.
Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design. You can be anti Israeli policy without being anti-semetic. Palestine needs the world to butt in IMO, lest they be wiped out completely.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution.

Back to my point, there's more anti-corbyn than a genuine care or outrage for anti-semetism in many of the comments. Is Corbyn a serious threat to Jews? I don't think so. I'd be looking at Britain First and the like. Once they run out of visible minorities to hate they'll concentrate on others.

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.30 'The only thing Hitler did wrong was Hitler didn't kill enough jews.' This is a Palestine supporter in Northern Ireland.

Of course you can be critical of Israel without being anti Semitic. Its rare i find that in these groups though. They seem more like hate groups.

I'm critical of Israel. I am no Bebe fan.

But I also see things that Israel has done that have been an olive branch to Palestinians. I see things in a more balanced way.

Its like Northern Ireland. There is no right side.

Its a conflict that needs resolution.

I feel some of the ideas towards Israel are anti antisemitism. Not all but some.

Ideas about the Jewish religion have been rather well warped for centuries in Europe.

Its fair to say some people 'supporting' palestine don't care about Palestinians.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:21pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

.............

Israel WANTS Palestine to have its own totally independent state it just doesn't want to be attacked.

Israel wants large sections of the West Bank etc, without the Palestinians that live on or use that land. They'd be happy enough to shove the remainder into what they don't want and turn it into another Gaza.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:23pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.30 'The only thing Hitler did wrong was Hitler didn't kill enough jews.' This is a Palestine supporter in Northern Ireland.

Of course you can be critical of Israel without being anti Semitic. Its rare i find that in these groups though. They seem more like hate groups.

I'm critical of Israel. I am no Bebe fan.

But I also see things that Israel has done that have been an olive branch to Palestinians. I see things in a more balanced way.

Its like Northern Ireland. There is no right side.

Its a conflict that needs resolution.

1 - Name them

2 - Israel is aggressively colonising outside its borders - it's therefore morally, legally in the wrong. It's not a matter of debate.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:39pm

Anti Semitism comes from the left and the right.

You have Gemma O'Doherty and Peter Casey etc. I am sure Gemma O'Doherty would like to deport Irish jews as well as non white Irish people (which she stated recently)

The Irish Jewish Representative council made an official complaint against Peter Casey i feel it was ignored tbh by the media.

The orthodox dublin shul is constantly being attacked. It has a swastika painted on it recently. The security guard has been attacked several times.

There was bloodied baby shoes left there once.

I feel like many people dont think you can be Irish and Jewish.

People will say to me 'Ah but you are not from a catholic family'.

I went to this Irish music course once. I was like 12 and really interested in Irish culture.

It turned out it was run by YOUTH DEFENSE who have neo nazi ties.

I was told 'Ireland is a catholic country' Ireland for the Irish had a twisted subtle definition.

I didn't know I was being taught Irish culture by Niamh Nic Mhathúna who is a violently anti Semitic Christian.

She is along the lines of Meghan Mc Cain. Basically a christian supremacist.

She had stuff published in Anti semitic magazines asking for money in the UK. And people from Youth defense have gone to meet actual nazis in Germany and fascists in Italy.

And i ended up in this Irish music course. I felt bullied. I was once marched around the entire school complex it was taught in by this really intimidating man.

When I was young this girl i used to know kept using the phrase 'Scabby Jew' on a daily basis. I would never say anything. Then one day she made friends with this new girl who i knew was jewish. And she said it. Then the new girl who knew i was jewish looked at me. I felt so guilty. And turned to her and said 'Why do you say that Im Jewish'. Her answer was 'Its just what i say i don't mean anything by it'.

People have used Vermin terminology to describe my family or jews in general. Although i haven't heard it much since i was a kid.

Jehovah witnesses used to serial call to our door. We have a mezuzah so they must know.

People used to call my family things like rats ..or write horrible stuff on my school books. ( I didn't go to stratford i went to a state school) they didn't have a junior school anyway then.

I tend to stay away from certain people i feel will think like that. I try NOT to be over sensitive though.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:44pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Anti Semitism comes from the left and the right.

You have Gemma O'Doherty and Peter Casey etc. I am sure Gemma O'Doherty would like to deport Irish jews as well as non white Irish people (which she stated recently)

The Irish Jewish Representative council made an official complaint against Peter Casey i feel it was ignored tbh by the media.

...............

Doherty is clearly a anti-semite, but what did Casey say?

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:46pm

Odhinn wrote: »

1 - Name them

2 - Israel is aggressively colonising outside its borders - it's therefore morally, legally in the wrong. It's not a matter of debate.

They give humanitarian aid.

Israel builds hospitals in Palestine literally. They are helping to reconstruct Gaza.

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Peace/Humanitarian/Pages/Reconstruction-in-Gaza.aspx

https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/default.aspx

The israeli govt brings israeli doctors to Palestine to help patients.

There is an IDF unit that's sole purpose is to bring medical aid to palestinians

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Peace/Humanitarian/Pages/IDF-unit-to-provide-medical-care-to-Palestinians-9-Jul-2015.aspx

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:48pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They give humanitarian aid.

Israel builds hospitals in Palestine literally.

https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/default.aspx

...seeing as they fill them whenever they think the "Grass" needs mowing, its a bit of a PR exercise.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:52pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Doherty is clearly a anti-semite, but what did Casey say?

'Jews basically live in the White House'

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 7:53pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

'Jews basically live in the White House'

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:56pm

Odhinn wrote: »

...seeing as they fill them whenever they think the "Grass" needs mowing, its a bit of a PR exercise.

Its real money honey. I think you are paranoid.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:57pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.

My dad said he would spit on him!
He also said Travellers should be put in concentration camps!

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 7:59pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He is rather a loathsome fecker, tis true.

As regards Israel and Palestine. All i want for Israelis and Palestinians is peace happiness and prosperity.

I don't know the way or what form it will take. But i don't want to feed anymore hatred between them.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

As regards Israel and Palestine. All i want for Israelis and Palestinians is peace happiness and prosperity.

I don't know the way or what form it will take. But i don't want to feed anymore hatred between them.

There's quite enough of that as it is, certainly. Unfortunately American backing of Israel means nothing will change, except perhaps for the worst.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:09pm

Odhinn wrote: »

There's quite enough of that as it is, certainly. Unfortunately American backing of Israel means nothing will change, except perhaps for the worst.

Well there is a ceasefire now not organized by the west but by the middle east itself. Lets hope.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:12pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well there is a ceasefire now not organized by the west but by the middle east itself. Lets hope.

A ceasefire with Hamas, the minority faction, controlling only Gaza. Nothing done about settlement expansion, the treatment of the occupied population and so on.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:15pm

Odhinn wrote: »

A ceasefire with Hamas, the minority faction, controlling only Gaza. Nothing done about settlement expansion, the treatment of the occupied population and so on.

Its a start. And hamas is an obstacle to peace the PA is not really.

They are much more reasonable.

Odhinn · 10-05-2019 8:18pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its a start. And hamas is an obstacle to peace the PA is not really.

They are much more reasonable.

Hamas are just the current excuse. Before that it was Arafat. Before that again it was that the PLO was "communist". Should Hamas vanish overnight a fresh excuse will be there in the morning.

The PA is essentially a bribed and corrupt organisation, run by Abbas. His sons are, by all accounts, taking every advantage and penny they can.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:29pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The PA is essentially a bribed and corrupt organisation, run by Abbas. His sons are, by all accounts, taking every advantage and penny they can.

That's an unfortunate truth. Hamas are just as corrupt though. There is not a lot Israel can do about that.

Hamas are just the current excuse. Before that it was Arafat. Before that again it was that the PLO was "communist". Should Hamas vanish overnight a fresh excuse will be there in the morning.

The Palestine Liberation Organization was really about pan arab nationalism. It burnt its bridges in the middle east after it tried to overthrow the Hashemite monarchy and failed (the Jordanian royal family ). They also further created their fate with their failed insurgency in the Lebannon. The PLO is considered one of the key contributors to the Lebanese civil war.

If Israel had befriended the PLO it would have offended their Arab neighbors whom the PLO had attempted to overthrow and they had only just created a fragile peace with them.

Now whatever you think of these neighbors etc and their regimes is besides the point ...if they are your neighbors etc you have to live with them.

mikemac2 · 10-05-2019 8:30pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The basis for anti semetism is often connected to ideas about palestine particularly ireland.

.

Could they not find a bit of waste ground for that bonfire??

It’s beside a row of terraced houses at 00:30 ! Their houses could go up in flames and I don’t believe their insurance will be paying out

A bonfire yeah sure, what Nordies do but how thick can you be to burn up your own community

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 8:35pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

Could they not find a bit of waste ground for that bonfire??

It’s beside a row of terraced houses at 00:30 ! Their houses could go up in flames and I don’t their insurance will be paying out

A bonfire yeah sure, what Nordies do but how thick can you be to burn up your own community

I dont get it on either side of the community. I just dont get it.
Obv the other side have theirs too ....they burn my flag ..the irish flag and maybe the palestinian flag ....who knows why they prob couldn't point to palestine on a map

Obv mostly Northern Irish people whether Unionist or Irish are 'normal' and by normal i mean the extremists probably call them freaks because their views are so warped. I have noticed that. 'What you're Irish but not EXTREME NATIONALIST?? YOU FREAK''.

biko · 10-05-2019 8:52pm

I will pretty much always stand with Jews. Like I will for gays and women.
People who do wrong against Jews, gays or women are not good people.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 9:04pm

biko wrote: »

I will pretty much always stand with Jews. Like I will for gays and women.
People who do wrong against Jews, gays or women are not good people.

I will stand with muslims and palestinians too i will stand for everyone's rights!

The same people who dislike muslims dislike jews.

Igotadose · 10-05-2019 9:32pm

Wouldn't it be grand if there were a discussion of European antisemitism that didn't devolve into CT about Israel and Israeli bashing?

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:08pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Wouldn't it be grand if there were a discussion of European antisemitism that didn't devolve into CT about Israel and Israeli bashing?

True. But some of the anti-semitism involved people who support palestine.

It would be great to talk about their anti semitism without talking about their support for palestine.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:11pm

Lets talk about Orban whom the Tories support.

Or how 41 % of Germany's jews say they have received harassment in the past year.

With 28% saying they have been physically harassed in the past year.

https://euobserver.com/political/143655

Then you have the Tree of Life synagogue shooting in Pittsbugh.

You have the Poway shooting of the chabad centre in San Diego.

Its not just Europe.

In France there was a surge in anti Semitic attacks some as serious as murder.

There were protests about it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47300117

Danzy · 10-05-2019 10:24pm

Opponents of Corbyn are using this for their own objectives.

He and Labour provide a never ending stream for them though.

I have no doubt he is an anti Semite. I don't really see how one cannot.

So while there are differing motivations for some, there remains a very significant antisemitism problem in Labour and with Jeremy Corbyn.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-05-2019 10:32pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't know the way or what form it will take.

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

Danzy · 10-05-2019 10:40pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

It won't.

People like Corbyn and co. hated Jews long before Israel, they will hate them long after it.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 10:59pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The form it could take is for Israel to stop the systemic theft and confiscation of land from a weaker people?

This might go some way to easing at least some of the problems highlighted in this thread.

That is a highly misleading map.

There was never a state called Palestine in the 40s much less with defined borders. Several arab leaders made pacts with Hitler.

Hitler convinced the Arab world they had a common enemy with Jews.

It was actually Nazi policy to deport German and eastern European jews to palestine they doubled the Palestinian Jewish population.

The muftis and sheikhs supported the Nazis esp their the anti-Jewish boycott. They didn't like the Jewish refugees but they tolerated them to suit Hitler.

Even before this there had been Arab massacres of jews in Hebron in 1929.

Systematic violence began in early 1920 with murderous assaults by groups of local Arabs against settlements in the north and by Muslim pilgrims against Jerusalem’s Jews. Again in 1921, Arab rioters attacked Jews in Jaffa and its environs. The primary agitator behind these attacks was Haj Amin al Husseini, who marshalled Arab discontent over Jewish immigration into violent riots. Below is Haj Amin Al Husseni sitting with another agitator of the mass murder of jews.

With hitlers continued deportation of jews to palestine the jewish population grew. The systematic arab violence continued until eventually palestinian Jews demanded their own state.

It was divided between Arabs and Jews. The moment this happened the entire Arab world attacked Israel and deported all of their jews to wait for it...yeah israel.

I hate to tell you this but facism appeals to some people in the arab world. And the fact that hamas shoots gay people and the PA and the PLO hate them... might indicate it still does.

I dont know how you expect israel to deal with the issue but i don't think ireland would be so tolerant.

But why are you justifying anti semitism with things Israel has done or not done? Jews outside of Israel have nothing to do with Israel.

Peoples opinions on jews are informed by hundreds of years of anti Semitic propaganda from various states and christians.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:06pm

I am not discussing Israel and Palestine in here.

An anti Semitic cartoon is an anti Semitic cartoon though.

biko · 10-05-2019 11:08pm

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

Igotadose · 10-05-2019 11:21pm

biko wrote: »

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

It's whataboutery designed to reinforce the lie these antisemites on this thread tell themselves, I.e. they're not antisemites. BUT ISRAEL....

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:21pm

biko wrote: »

Some people today get mixed up about Jews/Israelis.

Mixing Jews up with Israelis makes some people attack Jewish people on the streets of Europe and then blame it on the Israel/Palestine conflict

It's like blaming all the Muslims for the stupid **** the Saudis get up to.

Saudi is progressing. Its changing. They are allowing women to drive.

Its criminal justice system is highly flawed etc. And they have human rights issues.

But they are reforming.

On the one hand the war in Yemin is pushing yeminites to the brink of famine. On the other hand the saudis were asked to intervene by the President of Yemin Mansur Hadi. And the Houthi movement has committed terrible war crimes.

I can't claim to understand it all.

I wouldn't even blame saudis for what the Saudi govt does. I wouldn't even say saudi is all bad ..its not. Its mixed.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:23pm

I think the Arab world is done with religious political leaders. I sense a shift.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:23pm

Igotadose wrote: »

It's whataboutery designed to reinforce the lie these antisemites on this thread tell themselves, I.e. they're not antisemites. BUT ISRAEL....

Its easy to get sucked into.

Wibbs · 10-05-2019 11:36pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

But why are you justifying anti semitism with things Israel has done or not done? Jews outside of Israel have nothing to do with Israel.

I'd mostly agree with you on that IL, save for Americans who are Jewish. They remind me of those Irish Americans when the Troubles were kicking off here, full of some weird rose tinted and simplistic take on the situation in the "homeland" and eager to buy into the BS of those who are happy to foster that ignorance for their own ends.

Wibbs · 10-05-2019 11:40pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Saudi is progressing. Its changing. They are allowing women to drive.

Its criminal justice system is highly flawed etc. And they have human rights issues.

But they are reforming.

They are IL, but by God it's slow and I have the cynical feeling much of it is... well, cynical on their part and more about optics.

I can't claim to understand it all.

I reckon you've just summed up the narrative of the rest of us to that clusterfcuk that is and has long been that part of the world.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:43pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd mostly agree with you on that IL, save for Americans who are Jewish. They remind me of those Irish Americans when the Troubles were kicking off here, full of some weird rose tinted and simplistic take on the situation in the "homeland" and eager to buy into the BS of those who are happy to foster that ignorance for their own ends.

In a lot of instances you are correct. But the exact same is true of Palestinian activists. I would argue on their side it's even more true.

Also Israel is literally the USA's only true ally in the middle east.

Israel also has a majoy espionage system all over the middle east which is far better than the USA's. It shares a lot with the USA.

Israel is also a major buyer of American arms and therefore a desirable customer.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:44pm

Wibbs wrote: »

They are IL, but by God it's slow and I have the cynical feeling much of it is... well, cynical on their part and more about optics.

I reckon you've just summed up the narrative of the rest of us to that clusterfcuk that is and has long been that part of the world.

Its chaos ...its not like Europe.

American support for Israel has not been ....selfless ...and often been worse for Israel in the longterm in that its not impartial to both sides.

When the solution comes if it ever does. It might not please the US or Europe. It only needs to work for the people there.

Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

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