EU to recommend abolishing DST

Andy From Sligo · 31-08-2018 11:24pm

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

I’m a disaster in the morning anyway regardless of light or dark (I also have black out blinds and curtains so my room is pitch dark even in summe) also even as things are it’s dark when people are going to work. Having a bit more light in the evenings would be better for everyone and allow people to do things with a bit of light.

I got some blackout blinds for my bedroom in the summer and woke up to a dark room - actually made me feel worse personally, really groggy when i first woke up. maybe I didnt wait enough time for my body clock to adjust to the blackout blinds and give them enough of a chance , but I stopped using them and woke up a lot better in the mornings.

Laois_Man · 31-08-2018 11:29pm

Riskymove wrote: »

If UK keep DST we will have same time as UK for 6 months and be one hour ahead of them for 6 months

It's not a 6/6 split. End October to End March is 5 months. It's a 7/5 split - we would only be indifferent time zone to them for 5 months - in the unlikely event that the UK keeps DST very long after everyone else drops it

DST isn't a problem if it's done properly. Dark mornings are not a problem from End October to End March - It only needs to be done from about early November to Early/Mid February. It makes sense to keep it but do the darn thing right!

31-08-2018 11:34pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You can tell those who don't do a tap of work outside a commuting to an office type environment. They are so removed from the outdoor life they don't really think light matters until the weekend or summer hols.

The 30 minute compromise idea has some merit though.

Plenty of people do shift work. In the winter you can go for weeks without seeing daylight.

Andy From Sligo · 31-08-2018 11:36pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Plenty of people do shift work. In the winter you can go for weeks without seeing daylight.

you need plenty of Vit D and daylight bulbs!

Stephen15 · 31-08-2018 11:38pm

It seems to me in the month of January the mornings are darker and evenings are starting to get brighter. In December it feels that the mornings are brighter than January but yet the evenings are brighter. I think it would be better if we just used winter time in December and January no need at all for it November, Feburary and March.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 11:40pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You can tell those who don't do a tap of work outside a commuting to an office type environment. They are so removed from the outdoor life they don't really think light matters until the weekend or summer hols.

The 30 minute compromise idea has some merit though.

Hattip:

There will be the same amount of daylight hours whatever happens. So you can do your outdoor stuff whenever, if not tied to office hours.

And it is summertime that allows commuters to actually do outdoor stuff after work.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-08-2018 11:44pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

It seems to me in the month of January the mornings are darker and evenings are starting to get brighter. In December it feels that the mornings are brighter than January but yet the evenings are brighter. I think it would be better if we just used winter time in December and January no need at all for it November, Feburary and March.

Thats correct. January sunrises get later until the 2nd or 3rd I think. The earliest sunset is in early December - around the 12th.

Andy From Sligo · 31-08-2018 11:47pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Thats correct. January sunrises get later until the 2nd or 3rd I think. The earliest sunset is in early December - around the 12th.

doesnt that depend which part of the country you are in?

NIMAN · 01-09-2018 12:02am

If this were to happen,and I don't think it will, it will be mayhem for those of us who cross the border daily.

I'll have to start wearing 2 watches ffs.

01-09-2018 12:04am

NIMAN wrote: »

If this were to happen,and I don't think it will, it will be mayhem for those of us who cross the border daily.

I'll have to start wearing 2 watches ffs.

Really?
You can't add or subtract one hour?
Jaysis!

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-09-2018 12:25am

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
You can't add or subtract one hour?
Jaysis!

It would be slightly weird but no big deal. Some states in the US don't do DST. And some counties and Native American territories don't either ( and others do where the State doesn't).

The people who cross those borders know what to do.

01-09-2018 12:49am

Theres countries in Europe on different time zones, right beside each other.
Doesn't matter

McTigs · 03-09-2018 4:15pm

Sardine wrote: »

The little darlings all get driven to school now anyway. I would be over the moon if we keep summer time.
Does anyone know if this will actually happen?

Well my little darlings walk and I'd rather they didn't have to walk in the dark

I suppose we all have our reasons for wanting it one way or the other.... the thought of getting up and going to work in the middle of the night or having to wait until 10am on a saturday to do anything outdoorsy holds no appeal whatso ever.

EdgeCase · 04-09-2018 8:13am

Technically speaking, Irish Standard Time is UTC+1, we are on daylight saving time when the clock goes back.

The UK is standardised on UTC+0 "GMT"
BST is British Summer Time, not "standard time".

IST means Irish Standard Time, not "summer time".

While the majority of the continent is on UTC+1 - Central European Time CET.

Both the UK and European countries move to a +1 offset for summer time.
Ireland technically moves to a -1 offset from UTC+1 for winter time.

So in practical terms were on the same time as the UK due to the opposite offset.

If Ireland were to default to Irish Standard Time / Am Caighdeánach Éireannach IST without an offset, we are then on UTC+1 the same as France.

So basically, we would be no longer putting the clock back while everyone else wools stop putting the clock forward.

The result of that would be Irish time on CET and British time permanently on GMT. Ireland being on the same time as most of continental Europe and no longer coordinated with the UK.

You'd have to weigh up whether it would make more sense to move Ireland to UTC+0 and remain in sync with the UK. It's possible UTC+1 all year here is too far east for us from the point of view of daylight in the morning. You're looking at sunrise in the northwest at 9:53am in December.

If we just move to UTC+0 sunrise in Donegal remains 8:53am and we just have an impact in the summer when it doesn't really make all that much difference anyway.

The UK dropping BST just means they drop to an hour shorter in summer. It's actually more sane.

Daylight saving time was largely there in the UK to facilitate longer summer time industrial days in Britian and harvesting etc ...

I'd argue that moving Ireland to year round UTC+1 isn't very practical and might even have mental health issues as you'd be getting into weird dark mornings with the sunrise happening after you got to work / school. We've enough problems with depression here without adopting policies that might make SAD (seasonally affected disorder) even more pronounced.

If we drop daylight saving time, we would need to drop to GMT not IST. We are way too far west to be on CET and being this far north makes the impact far more extreme than say for Spain and even Portugal is on UTC too.

It would also be relatively handy for our interactions with the US eastern time zone in particular. We'd only be 4h apart for their daylight savings time period when they are UTC-4 and the same UTC-5 hours in winter.

I just think we need to be carful we only move time zone for purely practical reasons, not political or symbolic.

Riskymove · 05-09-2018 9:58am

EdgeCase wrote: »

The result of that would be Irish time on CET and British time permanently on GMT. Ireland being on the same time as most of continental Europe and no longer coordinated with the UK.

while a formal proposal has yet to appear the suggestion is that most were in favour of "retaining the summertime arrangements"

That would suggest to me that Ireland would remain one hour behind France as is currently the case. However we have to await the final version

Bit cynical · 05-09-2018 8:07pm

If the proposal goes ahead, Ireland would likely vote for it while seeking a derrogation for itself. I think the derrogation would be successful as it doesn't really affect other countries in Europe. The derrogation could then be traded at a later date as needed.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 05-09-2018 8:10pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

Technically speaking, Irish Standard Time is UTC+1, we are on daylight saving time when the clock goes back.

The UK is standardised on UTC+0 "GMT"
BST is British Summer Time, not "standard time".

IST means Irish Standard Time, not "summer time".

While the majority of the continent is on UTC+1 - Central European Time CET.

Both the UK and European countries move to a +1 offset for summer time.
Ireland technically moves to a -1 offset from UTC+1 for winter time.

So in practical terms were on the same time as the UK due to the opposite offset.

If Ireland were to default to Irish Standard Time / Am Caighdeánach Éireannach IST without an offset, we are then on UTC+1 the same as France.

So basically, we would be no longer putting the clock back while everyone else wools stop putting the clock forward.

The result of that would be Irish time on CET and British time permanently on GMT. Ireland being on the same time as most of continental Europe and no longer coordinated with the UK.

You'd have to weigh up whether it would make more sense to move Ireland to UTC+0 and remain in sync with the UK. It's possible UTC+1 all year here is too far east for us from the point of view of daylight in the morning. You're looking at sunrise in the northwest at 9:53am in December.

If we just move to UTC+0 sunrise in Donegal remains 8:53am and we just have an impact in the summer when it doesn't really make all that much difference anyway.

The UK dropping BST just means they drop to an hour shorter in summer. It's actually more sane.

Daylight saving time was largely there in the UK to facilitate longer summer time industrial days in Britian and harvesting etc ...

I'd argue that moving Ireland to year round UTC+1 isn't very practical and might even have mental health issues as you'd be getting into weird dark mornings with the sunrise happening after you got to work / school. We've enough problems with depression here without adopting policies that might make SAD (seasonally affected disorder) even more pronounced.

If we drop daylight saving time, we would need to drop to GMT not IST. We are way too far west to be on CET and being this far north makes the impact far more extreme than say for Spain and even Portugal is on UTC too.

It would also be relatively handy for our interactions with the US eastern time zone in particular. We'd only be 4h apart for their daylight savings time period when they are UTC-4 and the same UTC-5 hours in winter.

I just think we need to be carful we only move time zone for purely practical reasons, not political or symbolic.

Screw Donegal. Get up later in jan.

We need summer time. It’s one of the best attributes of the Irish summer.

Gallee · 08-09-2018 2:56am

Am I correct in saying that the abolition of DST means sunset is an hour earlier in Summer? And real dark mornings in Winter to have extra brightness in the winter evenings also? Hard time getting my head around it!! Surely longer Summer nights for kids etc and enjoying the Summer our doors is better?

hatrickpatrick · 08-09-2018 3:32am

This is one of those areas in which, IMO, the EU is massively overstepping its purpose by having any authority here at all. It should be up to each nation state to decide on issues like this.

Andy From Sligo · 08-09-2018 12:29pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is one of those areas in which, IMO, the EU is massively overstepping its purpose by having any authority here at all. It should be up to each nation state to decide on issues like this.

yep - if they carry on we could find ourselves having eirexit ....

dxhound2005 · 08-09-2018 12:56pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is one of those areas in which, IMO, the EU is massively overstepping its purpose by having any authority here at all. It should be up to each nation state to decide on issues like this.

It's a bit late in the day to be worrying about loss of authority for national states. They all agreed the current arrangement a long time ago.

The first Summertime Directive that entered into force in 1981 laid down a common date for the beginning of the summer-time period only. Successive Directives laid down a common date for the beginning, i.e. the last Sunday in March, and two dates for the end: one on the last Sunday in September applied by the continental Member States and the other on the fourth Sunday in October for the United Kingdom and Ireland. This situation continued until the adoption of the seventh Directive in 1994, which for the first time provided a common end date, i.e. the last Sunday in October, from 1996 onwards. This Directive brought about a unified calendar 16 years after the adoption of the first Directive. Lastly, the present Directive dating from 2001 extends the provisions of the Directive for an unlimited period.

In 2007, the European Commission presented a report that underlined the importance of maintaining the harmonised timetable to ensure proper functioning of the internal market, which is the main objective of the Directive.

The consultation about whether to change seems to me to be an eminently democratic process.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations/2018-summertime-arrangements_en

08-09-2018 1:15pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's a bit late in the day to be worrying about loss of authority for national states. They all agreed the current arrangement a long time ago.

The first Summertime Directive that entered into force in 1981 laid down a common date for the beginning of the summer-time period only. Successive Directives laid down a common date for the beginning, i.e. the last Sunday in March, and two dates for the end: one on the last Sunday in September applied by the continental Member States and the other on the fourth Sunday in October for the United Kingdom and Ireland. This situation continued until the adoption of the seventh Directive in 1994, which for the first time provided a common end date, i.e. the last Sunday in October, from 1996 onwards. This Directive brought about a unified calendar 16 years after the adoption of the first Directive. Lastly, the present Directive dating from 2001 extends the provisions of the Directive for an unlimited period.

In 2007, the European Commission presented a report that underlined the importance of maintaining the harmonised timetable to ensure proper functioning of the internal market, which is the main objective of the Directive.

The consultation about whether to change seems to me to be an eminently democratic process.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations/2018-summertime-arrangements_en

Thank you. Again, the instinctive reaction of Europhobes is to scream "lack of democracy". "unelected Brussels bureaucrats" etc (before they, without irony, advocate a system with an unelected House of Lords, unelected, Eton-educated civil servants, an unelected oligarchic British media and so much else) but once again this is far from the reality. It's just a pity that otherwise intelligent Irish posters are finally succumbing to these Europhobic propaganda soundbites from the British rightwing which has poisoned every discussion related to the EU.

08-09-2018 1:21pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yep - if they carry on we could find ourselves having eirexit ....

Éirexit = back at the mercy of Britain again. I can't imagine many Irish people wanting to throw our people back under that bus once again.

Éirexiters, the new "Unionists".

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-09-2018 1:36pm

Gallee wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that the abolition of DST means sunset is an hour earlier in Summer? And real dark mornings in Winter to have extra brightness in the winter evenings also? Hard time getting my head around it!! Surely longer Summer nights for kids etc and enjoying the Summer our doors is better?

No.

They are keeping summertime. That’s the proposal.

GarIT · 08-09-2018 6:54pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yep - if they carry on we could find ourselves having eirexit ....

I'd vote for abolishing Ireland and making the EU a country long before I'd consider voting to leave and I hope a good few people would feel the same.

Nobody with two brain cells would vote to leave over something arbitrary like the time changing.

cml387 · 08-09-2018 7:07pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No.

They are keeping summertime. That’s the proposal.

Was done before. Between 1968 and 1971 we kept GMT+1.

Andy From Sligo · 08-09-2018 9:28pm

GarIT wrote: »

I'd vote for abolishing Ireland and making the EU a country long before I'd consider voting to leave and I hope a good few people would feel the same.

Nobody with two brain cells would vote to leave over something arbitrary like the time changing.

no, but it could be a factor with a lot of people if EU keep imposing more things ...

super_furry · 08-09-2018 9:41pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is one of those areas in which, IMO, the EU is massively overstepping its purpose by having any authority here at all. It should be up to each nation state to decide on issues like this.

That's exactly what is happening. The EU have accepted the proposal and now it's up to each member state to go off and ratify it to see if it will be passed into law.

http://www.thejournal.ie/clocks-daylight-savings-over-4225815-Sep2018/

"First it will go through the European Parliament – then it will be sent to each individual member state to vote on."

dxhound2005 · 08-09-2018 9:45pm

super_furry wrote: »

That's exactly what is happening. The EU have accepted the proposal and now it's up to each member state to go off and ratify it to see if it will be passed into law.

http://www.thejournal.ie/clocks-daylight-savings-over-4225815-Sep2018/

"First it will go through the European Parliament – then it will be sent to each individual member state to vote on."

We will be forced to vote twice. Once before the clocks change, and a second time after they change.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-09-2018 9:49pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

no, but it could be a factor with a lot of people if EU keep imposing more things ...

But they are imposing nothing in this regard. Each country will make its own decision. But that won't stop people maintaining the falsehood that it is being imposed.

EU to recommend abolishing DST

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