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Cannot find gg grandfather in 1901 census

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    #32
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jorg wrote: »
    I'm not sure if this should be a new thread but here goes ....

    I too can't find an ancestor in the 1901 census. He and his family are in the 1911 in Dublin and I have found the birth details for his children in the GRO records up to 1892 in Dublin North but the entire family are missing in 1901. His name was John Free and in 1911, he lived in St. Patricks Tce, Drumcondra, Clonturk parish (ironically, there's also a St. Patricks Terrace, Drumcondra in St. Georges parish). I've searched the 1901 for all counties but no joy.

    When browsing by street, it looks like a lot of the Dromcondra area is missing in the 1901 census. I know the NAI have said that some areas are missing but they haven't posted any further details yet.

    Anyone know if areas of Dromcondra are missing?


    Try a different spelling even try spelling it in irish if that dosn't work put in his age and what he worked as and narrow it down from there.


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    #33
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    owenc wrote: »
    Draperstown..

    Is that Draperstown near to Desertmartin & Magherafelt ?


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    #34
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    jorg wrote: »
    ....
    I've searched the 1901 for all counties but no joy.

    When browsing by street, it looks like a lot of the Dromcondra area is missing in the 1901 census. I know the NAI have said that some areas are missing but they haven't posted any further details yet.

    Anyone know if areas of Dromcondra are missing?

    there are a few streets and townlands currently missing from the 1901
    census online. I have not heard of any being missing for Drumcondra..

    Some returns have yet to be filmed and a number are badly damaged or missing.

    One detail to watch out for when browsing by street is that these can be split across more than one DED (electoral district) - so you may not always see the entire street in one list.


    Shane


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    #35
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    back to Draperstown....

    I think you may be out of luck Owen with RC records for Draperstown, the Civil and RC parish is Ballynascreen and the records only go back to the 1830s. See http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Derry&parish=Ballinascreen&churchid=347 (Irish Times)

    That link also shows details of where copies of the records are available.


    Shane


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    #36
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    jorg wrote: »
    ....
    name was John Free and in 1911, he lived in St. Patricks Tce, Drumcondra, Clonturk parish ...
    I've searched the 1901 for all counties but no joy.
    ......
    Anyone know if areas of Dromcondra are missing?

    back to Drumcondra....

    As far as I can see the St. Patrick's terrace in question was part of Dumcondra Rd. The next door neighbour to your Free family is a Vincent L. Guinan, public house, and he is listed in Thom's 1914 as the Grocer/Publican and owner of the Cat and Cage Tavern. This was on Drumcondra Road (still there I think....) and opposite St. Patricks college.

    The same Vincent Guinan is listed in 1901 as a grocer in Drumcondra - see http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Drumcondra/Drumcondra/1271862/

    Based on the building return forms (B1) it looks like this is the same address - the land owner appears to be the same.. Wm. Wallis / William A. Wallace, but some of the adjacent houses look unoccupied... maybe newly built ?

    p.s. do you have addresses for the births ?


    Shane


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    #37
    jorg
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭jorg


    Thanks Shane - nice bit of detective work there! I did feel that Patricks Tce was part of Drumcondra rd as the enumerators form described it as Drumcondra rd from Tolka bridge to city boundary ward.

    I don't have the birth address as I only checked through the index in Dublin city library but it will be worth spending a few bob with the GRO for one of the birth records!

    It still won't solve his whereabouts in the 1901 census. Its not a very common surname so there aren't many about. The only slim possibility is that as he is listed in 1911 as a retired RIC man, there may be a possibility that he was posted outside Ireland in 1901. I don't know if that was common.

    Thanks again

    Joe


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    #38
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    shanew wrote: »
    back to Draperstown....

    I think you may be out of luck Owen with RC records for Draperstown, the Civil and RC parish is Ballynascreen and the records only go back to the 1830s. See http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Derry&parish=Ballinascreen&churchid=347 (Irish Times)

    That link also shows details of where copies of the records are available.


    Shane

    Uck typical pity they weren't church of ireland or presbyterian i could've got far further back than that every family tree that i have done has got back to the 1700s bar this one and they are the only catholics aswell quite odd considering mcwilliams are planters! Is there any other way to get back???


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    #39
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    jorg wrote: »
    .....
    I did feel that Patricks Tce was part of Drumcondra rd as the enumerators form described it as Drumcondra rd from Tolka bridge to city boundary ward.
    .....
    It still won't solve his whereabouts in the 1901 census. Its not a very common surname so there aren't many about. The only slim possibility is that as he is listed in 1911 as a retired RIC man, there may be a possibility that he was posted outside Ireland in 1901. I don't know if that was common.
    ....

    I dont think RIC men would be posted outside Ireland ... although I suppose some sort of inter-service transfer may be possible. I dont know if John was still serving in 1901, but sometimes RIC men (along with other occupations like soldiers) are recorded on the census using just their initials. It might be worth checking.. although the families are usually recorded under full names.

    there's a possible listing for John in Thom's 1894...

    Richmond Road, Drumcondra - Civil Parish of Clonturk, Barony of Coolock

    9 Mr. John Free

    No. 9 is vacant in 1904 - I'll have a further look for any sign of him...



    Shane


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    #40
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    owenc wrote: »
    Uck typical pity they weren't church of ireland or presbyterian i could've got far further back than that every family tree that i have done has got back to the 1700s bar this one and they are the only catholics aswell quite odd considering mcwilliams are planters! Is there any other way to get back???

    Unfortunatly not. Once you reach the beginning of parish records you usually run out of options for finding specific family details. You can sometimes work back in time using other records such as legal, land or rental records, but available sources for these will be very specific to that location and would usually only show the head of the household.

    Occasionally you may find that earlier baptisms and marriages took place in a neighbouring parish (sometimes in the next county) which has older records. It might be worth checking out on the RC Parish map on the Irish Times - see : http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/index.htm


    Shane


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    #41
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    shanew wrote: »
    Unfortunatly not. Once you reach the beginning of parish records you usually run out of options for finding specific family details. You can sometimes work back in time using other records such as legal, land or rental records, but available sources for these will be very specific to that location and would usually only show the head of the household.

    Occasionally you may find that earlier baptisms and marriages took place in a neighbouring parish (sometimes in the next county) which has older records. It might be worth checking out on the RC Parish map on the Irish Times - see : http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/index.htm


    Shane

    Yes theres a pile of church of ireland ones accross the border and in the late 1700s i'm kinda hoping they converted around that time lol because they had to have at some time. I have read the will of the john mcwilliams that i have gotten back to and it mentions cloan theres a pile of mcwilliams in clough in tyrone at that time maybe his parents were from there.. is clone got any relations to clougher? Here is the will of my john. http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx and here is the family in clougher in the late 1700s. http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_ProniNames/ResultDetails.aspx
    Do you think they have any connection to my mcwilliams??

    Oh and who is this ?? http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_ProniNames/ResultDetails.aspx Another john mcwilliams in cloan. EDIT it won't let me post two links at the one time.


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    #42
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Where is john mcwilliams of cloan 1791 at in the 1766 religious census???


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    #43
    jorg
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭jorg


    shanew wrote: »
    back to Drumcondra....

    As far as I can see the St. Patrick's terrace in question was part of Dumcondra Rd. The next door neighbour to your Free family is a Vincent L. Guinan, public house, and he is listed in Thom's 1914 as the Grocer/Publican and owner of the Cat and Cage Tavern. This was on Drumcondra Road (still there I think....) and opposite St. Patricks college.

    The same Vincent Guinan is listed in 1901 as a grocer in Drumcondra - see http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Drumcondra/Drumcondra/1271862/

    Based on the building return forms (B1) it looks like this is the same address - the land owner appears to be the same.. Wm. Wallis / William A. Wallace, but some of the adjacent houses look unoccupied... maybe newly built ?

    p.s. do you have addresses for the births ?


    Shane


    Just found records of 3 baptisms for John from 1884 to 1889 in Irishgenealogy.ie and he was in 6 Foster Avenue / Terrace - still in Drumcondra but he obviously moved houses quite a bit.

    Interestingly in the church records as transcribed, they used Latin names so he's down twice as JOANNIS and strangely, once as LUDOUICUS with a sponsor named LADOVICUS! Sounds like an early Monty Python sketch!

    Joe


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