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Ireland agrees to plan on migrant resettlement

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    #1952
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    The thing that worries me . Look at Britain. If Britain wants out due to mass migration. it's bad lads. For a country that colonised half the planet. Yet wants out. Scary as fook to be honest. Does it really work.

    Look at Britain’s history though.

    They’re not alone on being a European colonial power that went everywhere and colonized.

    They are the only country dealing with this. And it’s not the immigrants.
    It’s a toxic media owners by a handful of billionaires (think it’s 6?)

    Ignore the rich elites making billions off this disaster and the parasites backing them!
    They’re not the problem!

    Look over there at the immigrants who work in the nhs and the tube and the care service! They’re the problem!


  • Options
    #1953
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    The thing that worries me . Look at Britain. If Britain wants out due to mass migration. it's bad lads. For a country that colonised half the planet. Yet wants out. Scary as fook to be honest. Does it really work.

    Ah musha,don't be worrying,a Public Private Partnership will be along shortly to mop your fevered brow...

    https://gript.ie/crisis-in-carrickmacross/
    The Government has in recent days said that this year has seen an increase of 50% in Asylum applications. It is actively seeking new private business partners to accommodate Asylum seekers. Fianna Fáil, meantime, has proposed that Irish families be encouraged to take Asylum seekers as lodgers.

    What is perhaps of most interest is the official description of the current situation...
    “THE GOVERNMENT HAS paid over €1.6 million to a private contractor to source emergency accommodation for asylum seekers since September 2018.

    Trenthall Ltd is contracted by the Department of Justice to find accommodation in the Cavan-Monaghan area following increased pressure on its Reception and Integration Agency (RIA).

    Not since Sept 1939,has an "Emergency" been more predictable,avoidable and unpopular in the State.

    It's equally important to note how this little Republic has maintained a significant "Overseas Aid" programme throughout the Worlds worst fiscal (and VERY real) emergency in modern times.

    https://www.dfa.ie/news-and-media/press-releases/press-release-archive/2018/october/tanaiste-welcomes-budget-2019-allocations-for-overseas-development-assistance.php

    €816,000,000.

    Ireland,it's representatives and it's people,need to be more fortright in pointing out it's long-standing and continuing Overseas Aid & Development budget,funded 100% by the contributions of it's own Citizens taxes.

    One very obvious,constructive approach to the immigration emergencies,is to ensure that the corruption and lack of administration commonplace in these source countries is tackled hard and upfront.

    Simply channelling millions of € through the same old NGO's and inherently corrupt Political systems is going to change nothing,except the state of our own National Coffers.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1954
    alexv
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭alexv


    A number of referendums will be required on this and other immigration issues when the current health crisis has been resolved.

    In an Ireland which is seeking to rebuild economically and socially, post Covid-19, much tighter controls on immigration and citizenship will need to be formulated and put to the vote of the Irish people.


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    #1955
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    This crisis has sweet darn all to do with the asylum system.


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    #1956
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    This crisis has sweet darn all to do with the asylum system.

    Until we have to borrow to pay to keep our own, with some predicting that many countries may reach 25% unemployment by summer the purse strings are going to get tight, trying to scale the 350 uid a week benefit back to 203 is going to be tough and with that increased payment countries are going to become even more attractive to these migrants. We need to close the borders to asylum seekers and economic migrants from poorer countries now and keep them closed till we’re back on track, its not ‘far right’ to say that, its just economically sensible


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  • Options
    #1957
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    This crisis has sweet darn all to do with the asylum system.

    The asylum system, the large migration of the last 30 years is driven by the needs of neoliberalism.

    The crisis certainly has been made worse economically by the damage neoliberalism has done.


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    #1958
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    This crisis has sweet darn all to do with the asylum system.
    Everybody will be leveraging it as a way to promote their own policies, immigration and everything else.


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    #1959
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,006 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    alexv wrote: »
    A number of referendums will be required on this and other immigration issues when the current health crisis has been resolved.

    In an Ireland which is seeking to rebuild economically and socially, post Covid-19, much tighter controls on immigration and citizenship will need to be formulated and put to the vote of the Irish people.

    Referendums are for changes to the constitution.
    It should not become overburdened with legislation.

    What do you suggest referendums be about that could not be dealt with by normal parliamentary legislation ?


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    #1960
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    alexv wrote: »
    A number of referendums will be required on this and other immigration issues when the current health crisis has been resolved.

    In an Ireland which is seeking to rebuild economically and socially, post Covid-19, much tighter controls on immigration and citizenship will need to be formulated and put to the vote of the Irish people.

    Why is it required?

    Should we tell all the foreign doctors and nurses that we will "formulate" a vote about their status?


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    #1961
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Danzy wrote: »
    The asylum system, the large migration of the last 30 years is driven by the needs of neoliberalism.

    The crisis certainly has been made worse economically by the damage neoliberalism has done.

    Do you genuinely think we would react better to the current crisis with the healthcare system and virology capability we had in the 1980's?


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    #1962
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Ah musha,don't be worrying,a Public Private Partnership will be along shortly to mop your fevered brow...

    https://gript.ie/crisis-in-carrickmacross/



    What is perhaps of most interest is the official description of the current situation...



    Not since Sept 1939,has an "Emergency" been more predictable,avoidable and unpopular in the State.

    It's equally important to note how this little Republic has maintained a significant "Overseas Aid" programme throughout the Worlds worst fiscal (and VERY real) emergency in modern times.

    https://www.dfa.ie/news-and-media/press-releases/press-release-archive/2018/october/tanaiste-welcomes-budget-2019-allocations-for-overseas-development-assistance.php

    €816,000,000.

    Ireland,it's representatives and it's people,need to be more fortright in pointing out it's long-standing and continuing Overseas Aid & Development budget,funded 100% by the contributions of it's own Citizens taxes.

    One very obvious,constructive approach to the immigration emergencies,is to ensure that the corruption and lack of administration commonplace in these source countries is tackled hard and upfront.

    Simply channelling millions of € through the same old NGO's and inherently corrupt Political systems is going to change nothing,except the state of our own National Coffers.

    How much money did Ireland receive through structural and cohesion funding from when we joined the EU? Was it €40 Billion (back then a lot of money). How much of that was wasted on corrupt politicians and populist investments?

    I find it genuinely appalling to see the same complaints being made by Irish people of poor countries that were made about the Irish before the nineties. The no dogs, no Irish signs. The laughter in the UK about the backward priest ridden mess that was "troubled Ireland".

    A combination of putrid hypocrisy and undeserved superiority. Ireland would still be in that state except some German, French and other politicians rose about petty nationalism, xenophobia and frankly racism to invest in Ireland. Frankly €816m is a cheap price for us to "pay it forward".


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    #1963
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    micosoft wrote: »
    Why is it required?

    Should we tell all the foreign doctors and nurses that we will "formulate" a vote about their status?
    What in heaven's name has this got to do with the topic?
    Nothing, zero.
    This tactic of conflating working migrants who immigrated to Ireland legally versus economic migrants using a weak asylum system is becoming tedious.

    People who wanted to contribute and work in this country were always welcome.
    We cannot however sustain the large numbers who come here who want to join the welfare lifestyle that some of the natives enjoy. Providing them with social housing, free health, free education, and so many other numerous benefits is not sustainable for the Irish worker, many of whom have a lower standard of living to migrants/asylum seekers who arrive here and win the welfare lottery.


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    #1964
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Kivaro wrote: »
    What in heaven's name has this got to do with the topic?
    Nothing, zero.
    This tactic of conflating working migrants who immigrated to Ireland legally versus economic migrants using a weak asylum system is becoming tedious.

    People who wanted to contribute and work in this country were always welcome.
    We cannot however sustain the large numbers who come here who want to join the welfare lifestyle that some of the natives enjoy. Providing them with social housing, free health, free education, and so many other numerous benefits is not sustainable for the Irish worker, many of whom have a lower standard of living to migrants/asylum seekers who arrive here and win the welfare lottery.

    Perhaps failing to realise that your working migrant is literally an economic migrant.

    Perhaps the issue is the tactic of conflating economic migrants with asylum seekers?

    How many economic migrants left Ireland?
    How many economic migrants have come to Ireland?
    Why can't we sustain a level of immigration? Other countries like the UK had to sustain a lot of Irish immigration?

    In fact your entire post is full of assumptions that are easily disprovable. The number of Asylum seekers is tiny per annum - 3,678 in 2018. Of those 683 are granted asylum (excluding children). If we took them all having the worst unemployment rate (say Africans) at 40% you are talking 272 people per annum added to the live register. Not much and could be addressed by providing better supports and routes to employement.

    I find it sad that some Irish have forgotten so quickly how they were treated. Literally the "facts" that the Daily Mail of the seventies wrote about the Irish.


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    #1965
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    micosoft wrote: »
    Perhaps failing to realise that your working migrant is literally an economic migrant.

    Perhaps the issue is the tactic of conflating economic migrants with asylum seekers?

    How many economic migrants left Ireland?
    How many economic migrants have come to Ireland?
    Why can't we sustain a level of immigration? Other countries like the UK had to sustain a lot of Irish immigration?

    In fact your entire post is full of assumptions that are easily disprovable. The number of Asylum seekers is tiny per annum - 3,678 in 2018. Of those 683 are granted asylum (excluding children). If we took them all having the worst unemployment rate (say Africans) at 40% you are talking 272 people per annum added to the live register. Not much and could be addressed by providing better supports and routes to employement.

    I find it sad that some Irish have forgotten so quickly how they were treated. Literally the "facts" that the Daily Mail of the seventies wrote about the Irish.


    We should not be taking economic migrants to join our SW army period
    successful asylum apps get to bring relatives so you could x 10

    1 previous case brought in 70 people some are over pension age so they go straight on to de pension how is this right ffs


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    #1966
    alexv
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭alexv


    micosoft wrote: »
    Why is it required?

    Should we tell all the foreign doctors and nurses that we will "formulate" a vote about their status?

    507,000 people received a COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Support (€350) payment last Friday. There are a further 200,000 people on the Live Register. That should give you an idea of the kind of economically catastrophic condition Ireland will be in for months, and probably years, to come.

    Immigration is simply a luxury the country will not be able to afford. There will be huge competition for whichever jobs become available. The local population should have a choice as to whether or not that enormous problem will be exacerbated by the kind of loose immigration policies tolerated here in the last twenty or twenty-five years.

    Unfortunately all of the political parties, from neoliberal Fine Gael to the fifteen left-wing groups and parties (including Paul Murphy's boldly named RISE), have been complicit in not listening to the concerns of a sizeable amount of the country's population in the best of times.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0329/950816-attitudes_to_immigration/

    Now that we are in a newly recessionary phase, the people must be listened to, and a greater application of direct democracy can only be welcomed.

    As for pilfering nurses and doctors from developing nations, which are suffering their absence in their own hospitals, if you are determined to continue that policy rather than train and retain many more Irish healthcare workers, a move towards the Australian points-based system of immigration should not be too difficult to envisage.

    https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(03)13094-2.pdf


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    #1967
    ijohhj
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 133 ✭✭ijohhj


    alexv wrote: »
    A number of referendums will be required on this and other immigration issues when the current health crisis has been resolved.

    In an Ireland which is seeking to rebuild economically and socially, post Covid-19, much tighter controls on immigration and citizenship will need to be formulated and put to the vote of the Irish people.

    Agreed. Should've gone to referendum years ago tbh.

    I also see some twitter heads moaning about the 2004 referendum and wanting it repealed. Undemocratic bellends, if they can't respect votes they shouldn't live in a country that benefits from having a vote.
    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    This crisis has sweet darn all to do with the asylum system.

    Disagree. It will have serious implications on whether we are able to financially manage an asylum system.


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    #1968
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    alexv wrote: »
    507,000 people received a COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Support (€350) payment last Friday. There are a further 200,000 people on the Live Register. That should give you an idea of the kind of economically catastrophic condition Ireland will be in for months, and probably years, to come.

    I suspect immigration was never a luxury you liked right? But of course as history has shown us... recessions are a great time for extremists to thrive...


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    #1969
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    ijohhj wrote: »
    Agreed. Should've gone to referendum years ago tbh.

    I also see some twitter heads moaning about the 2004 referendum and wanting it repealed. Undemocratic bellends, if they can't respect votes they shouldn't live in a country that benefits from having a vote.



    Disagree. It will have serious implications on whether we are able to financially manage an asylum system.

    Oh yes. Let's have an enabling act while we are at it...

    We have a representative democracy that respects the rule of law and based on a constitution of humanity. Not some mob law where hate of a tiny minority is whipped up based on lies.

    But if it's democracy you like... here's the democratically elected President of Ireland's view of you in a nutshell.


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    #1970
    ijohhj
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 133 ✭✭ijohhj


    micosoft wrote: »
    Oh yes. Let's have an enabling act while we are at it...

    Oh crumbs someone went and summoned the ghost of the Nazis again... lmfao how do people still do this unironically?

    "I disagree with you, so you're A NAZI!!!!!!!"
    micosoft wrote: »
    We have a representative democracy that respects the rule of law and based on a constitution of humanity.

    Exactly. And so people talking about repealing a very recent referendum are anti-democratic extremists.
    micosoft wrote: »
    here's the democratically elected President of Ireland's view of you in a nutshell.

    I think you have zero understanding of anything said in that clip tbh. It is over four minutes, so I understand your attention may drift.

    For a start, I completely agree with him:
    • On universal healthcare.
    • On Sarah Palin.
    • That fear based politics is laughable at best.
    • That Obama was mostly great apart from his foreign policy.
    • Ice cream is good.

    In fact, what he's talking about, is being accused of antisemitism in order to shut someone up (I assume the question was about Palestine). Seriously, how far into the clip did you listen?

    In fact our politics are very similar. It's ok if he differentiates on this, or some other topics, I still respect his opinion. And I suspect he would be better at really processing mine than you are.


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    #1971
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    the country had abused any trust about who comes in, ESRI reported Africans had the highest unemployment contingent link pasted here a zelion times.
    Dont think the last ref was really enforce just like the Dublin first port of entry a well oiled machine tax payer funded constantly uses pull the heart strings and lobby groups, long DP living encourages more to come.
    A ref will not remove this, we are soft touch while sneaking in anybody we are told under euro pressure then no local consultation and when revealed spin the racist card oh" it persecuted females when we all know it 18 - 35 males no English no skills sign on.


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    #1972
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    The French secret service has audio proof of NGO migrant ferry ships communicating directly with people smugglers in the pickup coordination of economic migrants just off the North African coast.
    Migrant "resettlement" is highly organised and operates now almost on an industrial scale, with profit and not altruism as the primary motivating factor.
    Ireland cannot afford to be part of this scam anymore.

    The vast majority of those who support this enterprise continuing in Ireland have vested interests e.g. Irish asylum NGO "charities", whose very existence depend on the importation of non-EU migrants into the country.


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    #1973
    alexv
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭alexv


    micosoft wrote: »
    I suspect immigration was never a luxury you liked right? But of course as history has shown us... recessions are a great time for extremists to thrive...

    Extremists like the 79% who approved the 27th Amendment in 2004?


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    #1974
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    micosoft wrote: »
    I suspect immigration was never a luxury you liked right? But of course as history has shown us... recessions are a great time for extremists to thrive...

    100% true.

    History,as Henry Ford opined can often just be bunk,but it does allow us an opportunity to revise our current thinking on a wide range of things.

    I'm assuming that you feel our "pool" of native extremists has become depleted,and we therefore require an influx of new,more exotic foreign types to maintain the strength of purpose ?

    Greece has a few likely candidates at the moment.....https://www.facebook.com/EllinikaSnaps/videos/536424117271421/?t=0

    As you suggest,recessions do indeed offer opportunities.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1975
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    There are a few cass of corona in the camps on the Greek islands so you basically have 40,000 or more people who neeed to get treated like potetially infected people. It would be utter insanity for us to take in 1,600 like reported in the media. We don’t have the resources.


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    #1976
    alexv
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭alexv


    It will be interesting to see the result of this referendum, whenever it eventually takes place:

    https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/switzerland-may-lose-access-to-schengen/

    Whether the outcome is positive or negative, it is bound to have knock on effects in other European states.


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    #1977
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    alexv wrote: »
    A number of referendums will be required on this and other immigration issues when the current health crisis has been resolved.

    In an Ireland which is seeking to rebuild economically and socially, post Covid-19, much tighter controls on immigration and citizenship will need to be formulated and put to the vote of the Irish people.

    Really?

    I don't see any need.

    We are in the EU, we embrace EU freedom of movement, fine.

    All other immigration can be controlled by the Govt, no change to the Constitution required.

    I support restrictions on all non-EU immigration.

    But we already have these, no need for a referendum.


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    #1978
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    ijohhj wrote: »
    Agreed. Should've gone to referendum years ago tbh.

    I also see some twitter heads moaning about the 2004 referendum and wanting it repealed. Undemocratic bellends, if they can't respect votes they shouldn't live in a country that benefits from having a vote.


    Disagree. It will have serious implications on whether we are able to financially manage an asylum system.

    The 2004 vote stands. No change. The vast majority agree with that vote.

    We should process AS claims in the port/airport within 7 days max, then give outcome.

    We should aim, eventually, to deport bogus AS, within 24 hours.


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    #1979
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    There were hundreds of hours of reporting on "Trump's wall". How bad it was and some even called border control and security "racist".

    Didn't see much reported on the border wall between Spain (Eu) and Africa located at Melilla . A fortress that is under constant strain

    Check this madness out

    https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts


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    #1980
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Timely reminder of the sheer scale of Africa alone in comparison and the absolute clamour to get in here. Could there be a more contrasting species from a vaster continent?!.. and north america thought it had problems :pac:is it racism to say fùck that?!!


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    #1981
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    micosoft wrote: »
    I suspect immigration was never a luxury you liked right? But of course as history has shown us... recessions are a great time for extremists to thrive...
    But aren't you just engaging in cheap point scoring. Often people use "I guess / I think / you probably" or some other imaginary pretext to apply a fantastic notion of racism or some other ism in order to shut down debate.
    Recessions and depressions everyone starts to whinge and moan when the trough becomes emptied. It can also be an catalyst for positive change.
    We need immigration, we need skilled people. We don't need people with no skills. We don't need more refugees from wars that liberals support destroying countries and turning them into refugee factories.
    Area I work in we have many EU and plenty of Non EU to fill gaps in a high pressure environment that we can't get enough *skilled* Irish people to fill.


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