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08-06-2019, 10:49   #31
K.Flyer
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Flyer, can you provide a link to this (code of practice?) from IW, very interested to have a read
https://www.water.ie/our-customer-co...ter-Supply.pdf
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08-06-2019, 12:43   #32
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This extract from above says it all..... every house in the country must be in contravention of this??

2.6.13 Where electric showers and dishwasher, washing machine, heating
systems, etc. are provided in buildings, they shall not be connected
directly to Irish Water’s water supply system. They must be fed from the
storage tank located within the building. Direct feeds from Irish Water’s
water supply system shall only be to a potable water supply tap and the
water storage tank.
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08-06-2019, 12:59   #33
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Yep, and this is not a New thing that Irish Water have come up with, its been around for many years.
Older local authority documents will say the same thing, it's just now that all water is under I.W.'s remit that it's been updated onto the one document.
And yes, there are hundreds, if not thousands of installations, be they anything from washing machines, to showers, to boilers etc, connected directly onto the main supply.
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08-06-2019, 13:08   #34
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I'm just over 50 now and it's been like that since before that. My own dad was originally a plumber in the 50s and 60s.

I actually believed that each individual county council made their own rules on this decades ago but I may missremember that

Edit I wonder do they bring a cold supply from the attic to the kitchen for dishwasher on new builds now?

Last edited by Sleeper12; 08-06-2019 at 13:12.
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08-06-2019, 13:11   #35
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I'm well over 70 now and I'm glad I didn't throw this out with the dish water.
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08-06-2019, 13:28   #36
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Edit I wonder do they bring a cold supply from the attic to the kitchen for dishwasher on new builds now?
I don’t anyway. A lot of washing machines and dishwashers won’t work on gravity fed water. Simply not enough pressure. Saying that though, most new builds these days are all pressurised systems
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08-06-2019, 13:44   #37
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I'm well over 70 now and I'm glad I didn't throw this out with the dish water.

Nearly choked on my coffee laughing at that John
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08-06-2019, 13:46   #38
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Not so sure about houses, but most of the apartment developments I work in all the appliances are from the apartment storage tank via a pump.
Some developments have All the supplied water pumped, but taken from a break tank.
Most U.V. cylinders are done the same way, as would be combi boilers, so no regulation issues there.
For example, in one all electric development there is a direct mains feed to kitchen cold tap only. Everything else, including the u.v. cylinders, come from huge remote water storage tanks via variable speed pump stations. The same again where combi boilers are fitted and no cylinder, all from remote tanks via pumps. This is in keeping with the regulations as the break / storage tanks are in place.
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08-06-2019, 13:59   #39
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I understood that dishwashers have to be connected to mains water for hygiene reasons. Don't want to wash dishes in water from a tank with a dead mouse in it.
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08-06-2019, 14:11   #40
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I understood that dishwashers have to be connected to mains water for hygiene reasons. Don't want to wash dishes in water from a tank with a dead mouse in it.
But its still ok to wash and brush your teeth from it.
As you have probably already read in some of the above posts, nothing except cold kitchen tap and water storage tank allowed.

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2.6.13 Where electric showers and dishwasher, washing machine, heating systems, etc. are provided in buildings, they shall not be connected directly to Irish Water’s water supply system. They must be fed from the storage tank located within the building.
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09-06-2019, 09:08   #41
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It's archaic in nature, and is only there as IW (and previously local authorities) cannot guarantee supply the pressure required for appliances.

It's ridiculous
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08-10-2019, 10:48   #42
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It's archaic in nature, and is only there as IW (and previously local authorities) cannot guarantee supply the pressure required for appliances.

It's ridiculous
I'm renovating a (very small) house at the moment and absolutely share your views and frustration on this. The Building Regs say simply that there has to be suitable water supply to the taps, WCs, etc. The technical GUIDANCE (note guidance only, not a law or regulation, and therefore able to be flexed) suggests that only the kitchen tap and CWST can be mains fed. The IW Code of Practice is only mandatory for new developments with new connections. Therefore, it is NOT mandatory for renovations where there is an existing mains connection.

Having said all that, given the wide-spread reluctance to actually understand what is mandatory and what is not (even the reluctance to understand the purpose of the guidance, which is even prefaced by a statement that alternative methods may achieve the purpose better, eg connecting directly to the mains with an appropriate back siphonage prevention valve so as to avoid any possible contamination of the mains water), it seems we are stuck in the dark ages of plumbing and having to spend a small fortune on pumps etc. Unfortunately, there's little point being right when everyone around you refuses to question their outdated assumptions.

I'm just resigned to sucking it up (literally) and installing a CWST as a break tank and then immediately pumping it again around the house and to my combi. Massive pain in the hole and waste of valuable storage space (and money).
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08-10-2019, 11:12   #43
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I'm renovating a (very small) house at the moment and absolutely share your views and frustration on this. The Building Regs say simply that there has to be suitable water supply to the taps, WCs, etc. The technical GUIDANCE (note guidance only, not a law or regulation, and therefore able to be flexed) suggests that only the kitchen tap and CWST can be mains fed. The IW Code of Practice is only mandatory for new developments with new connections. Therefore, it is NOT mandatory for renovations where there is an existing mains connection.

Having said all that, given the wide-spread reluctance to actually understand what is mandatory and what is not (even the reluctance to understand the purpose of the guidance, which is even prefaced by a statement that alternative methods may achieve the purpose better, eg connecting directly to the mains with an appropriate back prevention valve so as to avoid any possible contamination of the mains water), it seems we are stuck in the dark ages of plumbing and having to spend a small fortune on pumps etc. Unfortunately, there's little point being right when everyone around you refuses to question their outdated assumptions.

I'm just resigned to sucking it up (literally) and installing a CWST as a break tank and then immediately pumping it again around the house and to my combi. Massive pain in the hole and waste of valuable storage space (and money).



Just to point out that this isn't a new regulation. I'm in my 50s & this reg has been in place long before I was born. So unless the original incorrect connections to the mains were made over 70 years ago then it goes against the regs. I can't speak for the rest of the country but in Dublin DCC state that you should have 24 hours supply of stored water.


I believe the reason for the regs nothing to dowith back siphonage ( every country has this risk) but basically because our water system can't cope with everything on mains. The likes of the UK where cold water tanks aren't required have massive water pressure. 10 bar would be common. In Dublin you are lucky to get 1 bar in places. In these places pressure can drop so much at peak times that the cold water tank is no longer being filled but no one notices. It will fill again in a few hours when demand drops off. Many parts of Dublin doesn't have enough constant water pressure to run a basic mains pressure electric shower. I've heard of plenty of combi boilers not working at peak times as the pressure drops too much. The only way to be certain in Ireland is to supply the combi off a cold water tank with a pump


Until we pay for water & there is proper investment nothing will change. Irish water can increase the pressure but that would mean even more treated water would leak under the city.
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08-10-2019, 12:16   #44
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Just to point out that this isn't a new regulation. I'm in my 50s & this reg has been in place long before I was born. So unless the original incorrect connections to the mains were made over 70 years ago then it goes against the regs. I can't speak for the rest of the country but in Dublin DCC state that you should have 24 hours supply of stored water.


I believe the reason for the regs nothing to dowith back siphonage ( every country has this risk) but basically because our water system can't cope with everything on mains. The likes of the UK where cold water tanks aren't required have massive water pressure. 10 bar would be common. In Dublin you are lucky to get 1 bar in places. In these places pressure can drop so much at peak times that the cold water tank is no longer being filled but no one notices. It will fill again in a few hours when demand drops off. Many parts of Dublin doesn't have enough constant water pressure to run a basic mains pressure electric shower. I've heard of plenty of combi boilers not working at peak times as the pressure drops too much. The only way to be certain in Ireland is to supply the combi off a cold water tank with a pump


Until we pay for water & there is proper investment nothing will change. Irish water can increase the pressure but that would mean even more treated water would leak under the city.
The "regulations" are not for local county councils - since 2014 they were all transferred to Irish Water. IW gives guidance but these are not regulations nor laws.

Part G of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations 1997 - 2008, provides as follows:

"Bathrooms and kitchens. G1 A dwelling shall be provided with -
(a) a bathroom containing either a fixed bath or a shower bath, and a washbasin, and
(b) a kitchen containing a sink of adequate size and a draining board, and
(c) a suitable installation for the provision of hot and cold water to the bath or shower bath, washbasin and sink.
Sanitary conveniences and G2 (1) Adequate sanitary conveniences shall be provided in a building washing facilities. in rooms provided for that purpose, or in bathrooms, and
every room or bathroom which contains a sanitary convenience shall be adequately separated from any place where food is prepared or cooked.
(2) Adequate washbasins shall be provided in -
(a) rooms containing sanitary conveniences; or
(b) rooms or spaces adjacent to rooms containing sanitary conveniences.
(3) There shall be a suitable installation for the provision of hot and cold water to washbasins provided in accordance with subparagraph (2).
(4) Sanitary conveniences shall be of such design as to facilitate efficient use of water for flushing.
(5) Sanitary conveniences and washbasins shall be of such design and be so installed as to allow for effective cleaning.
Definition for this Part. G3 In this Part, “sanitary convenience" means a water closet or a urinal."

Technical Guidance Part G "Hygiene" gives *guidance* on how to satisfy these regulations. This is guidance only, not mandatory. The intro on page 2 even says specifically "the adoption of an approach other than that outlined in the guidance is not precluded provided that the relevant requirements of the Regulations are complied with".

As you can see from the Regs, this is about hygiene, not demand on the water supply.

IW connection terms and conditions specifically state that the internal reserves of water are for the home owner. They recommend (again not mandate) 24 hours worth of storage. But this is a risk that should be for the home owner to determine. The Technical Guidance suggests 200+ litres would be appropriate.

There may be perfectly valid reasons to keep a cold water tank etc and I completely agree with you on that - it may be sensible to provide for the fact that IW supply can be a bit rubbish. However it is incorrect to state that these are regulations. They are mere guidance.

References in case anyone wants to check what I'm saying (I would post links but Boards won't let me):

- Technical Guidance Part G - building regs and (non-mandatory) guidance
- Irish Water Code of Practice - Note this is mandatory for new connections, NOT mandatory for existing connections
- Number 6 of 2013. WATER SERVICES ACT 2013 - established IW and transferred powers from local authorities to IW
- Irish Water new connection General Terms and Conditions
- Irish Water website connections FAQs

I don't think I've missed anything in the above but please let me know if I have!
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08-10-2019, 13:00   #45
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So you are saying that we can all ignore Irish Waters code of practice or are the code of practice part of the regs?

It's my opinion that both must be considered

https://www.water.ie/our-customer-co...ter-Supply.pdf
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