combi boiler

jacor48

is it possible to run domestic shower from a grant vortex combi oil boiler . is their issues with water pressure etc.

scudo2

jacor48 wrote: »

is it possible to run domestic shower from a grant vortex combi oil boiler . is their issues with water pressure etc.

Brilliant boiler, no problem there.

99% of houses have more than adequate water pressure for showers.
Bath can be a bit slow if low pressure, everything is fixable, get a good installer to inspect and advice you.
Boiler has to be commissioned for warranty.

mfrutos

scudo2 wrote: »

99% of houses have more than adequate water pressure for showers.

I know this is a very old post, but I am interested in the affirmation. I would like to replace my system boiler with a combi boiler, to gain some space.

Tullogher

mfrutos wrote: »

I know this is a very old post, but I am interested in the affirmation. I would like to replace my system boiler with a combi boiler, to gain some space.

Of course you can.

mfrutos

Tullogher wrote: »

Of course you can.

Everything is possible... But is it true that 99% of the houses have adequate pressure?

Tullogher

mfrutos wrote: »

Everything is possible... But is it true that 99% of the houses have adequate pressure?

When you say syatem boiler what do you mean. Type, location, connected to hot water cyclinder.

Do you know combi bioler does not need cyclinder and is usually placed inside.

The depends on a few things
Is it a single story house
two story
is the shower on the ground or first floor
is it a power shower (pump in the shower) fed from hot and cold water
Is it an electric shower fed by cold water only
is it a gravity shower thermostatic mixer shower

Sleeper12

mfrutos wrote:

Everything is possible... But is it true that 99% of the houses have adequate pressure?

Definitely not. It's against the building regs to install a combi boiler connected to the mains supply. The correct way to install a combi boiler in Ireland is to take the feed for the combi boiler and for the cold supply for the bathroom from the attic tank. Installing a pump & pumping the water to the boiler and the cold. You need equal pressure on the hot & cold going into the standard thermostatic shower.

Tullogher

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Definitely not. It's against the building regs to install a combi boiler connected to the mains supply.

Which building reg?

Sleeper12

Tullogher wrote:

Which building reg?

The building regs that state that only the cold water in the kitchen is to be mains fed. Everything else must be from the attic tank. These aren't new regs. They've been around since before I was born. You are also supposed to have enough water stored to last you at least 24 hours.

Combi boilers in the UK are mains fed but not in Ireland.

Tullogher

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The building regs that state that only the cold water in the kitchen is to be mains fed. Everything else must be from the attic tank. These aren't new regs. They've been around since before I was born. You are also supposed to have enough water stored to last you at least 24 hours.

Combi boilers in the UK are mains fed but not in Ireland.

They didn't say they were disconnecting mains from the sink.

Dtp1979

Irish mains water is not capable of feeding a combi. Only a cowboy would install one that way over here. Mains in England is fantastic.

Sleeper12

Tullogher wrote:

They didn't say they were disconnecting mains from the sink.

That's not what I said. Building regs state that all of water for a house must be supplied by the attic tank with the exception of the kitchen sink.

It has nothing to do with disconnecting from the kitchen sink.

Tom44

Don't believe a word yer man Scudo2 says, he always was a shifty fecker.

This or similar is what's now required to run a combination boiler if in poor pressure areas.

https://www.epswater.ie/products/multiboost-slimline

Sleeper12

Sleeper12

Tullogher wrote:

When you say syatem boiler what do you mean. Type, location, connected to hot water cyclinder.

A system boiler is mains fed but it heats water for your hot water cylinder. Being mains fed it's still against the building regs. These would be good for Large homes. Because you keep the hot water cylinder you can run several showers at the same time.

mfrutos

Thanks everyone. I understand this is also applicable to apartments. My apartment is a 6th floor, is the mains also gravity fed?

K.Flyer

mfrutos wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I understand this is also applicable to apartments. My apartment is a 6th floor, is the mains also gravity fed?

Mains water, which supplies water to the kitchen cold tap and storage tank if fitted, is not gravity fed.
It comes from the main supply from the street, usually via a central pumped system in the basement of the block.
Some apartment buildings do have Combi-Boilers, but these are always fed from a large central storage tank / pumping station and are not direct mains fed.

John.G

Sleeper12 wrote: »

A system boiler is mains fed but it heats water for your hot water cylinder. Being mains fed it's still against the building regs. These would be good for Large homes. Because you keep the hot water cylinder you can run several showers at the same time.

Are you saying mains supplied make up to a un vented system boiler is against building regs even with suitable check (double) valves?.

Sleeper12

John.G wrote: »

Are you saying mains supplied make up to a un vented system boiler is against building regs even with suitable check (double) valves?.

I don't do boilers at all but the regs say all water apart from the cold kitchen tap must be fed from the attic tank. Technically your typical T80 shower should be pumped from the attic tank & not connected to the mains

EDIT: I you say I have it wrong I'm happy to be corrected

K.Flyer

John.G wrote: »

Are you saying mains supplied make up to a un vented system boiler is against building regs even with suitable check (double) valves?.

Its accepted, as long as the filling loop is disconnected from the mains and capped off after use.
This prevents the possibility of any backflow from the heating system back into the potable water.

DGOBS

Just to satisfy my head, where are you finding it in the building regs?

Tullogher

DGOBS wrote: »

Just to satisfy my head, where are you finding it in the building regs?

Hygiene Part covers water provision

DGOBS

Why would there even be an issue fitting mains to a combi boiler?
After all, there is no water storage, so no risk of back flow contamination.

I have been quoted 'water by-laws' prohibit it many times, but have not found any evidence of it in any water by-laws, other that the fitting of double (sometimes triple) check valve.

You would imagine in the days of energy conservation a combo-boiler should be the first choice, and only if unsuitable for the household (too much demand) should hot/or cold water storage be considered.

In the UK to vast majority of boilers fitted are combi, and there are no widespread reports of bacterial back siphonage in their water supplies.

I find it all akin to 'the boogey-man' with all this talk of not being able to connect a combo-boiler to mains feed, the real issue was always that our water supply pressure is poor, and may not be suitable for the appliance.

As John rightly pointed out, what about all the unvented cylinders being fitted?
I don't see them supplied with a break tank and filler pump!
And these would have the capacity to over pressurise with failed expansion vessels and heat, then syphon back into the mains, and a double check valve is deemed sufficient!

Or am I just going mad Ted? (rant over)

DGOBS

Hygiene Part covers water provision

Yup, it sure doesn't, and I can't find anything in there to prohibit a combi boiler connection.

Any reference to the mains water connections is a SHOULD (not a shall) so other methods of connection are permitted, and does not prohibit the connection of a combi-boiler

K.Flyer

DGOBS wrote: »

Yup, it sure doesn't, and I can't find anything in there to prohibit a combi boiler connection.

Any reference to the mains water connections is a SHOULD (not a shall) so other methods of connection are permitted, and does not prohibit the connection of a combi-boiler

I'm sure I have the relevant section, but it would be on the computer and I won't see that until tomorrow.
But I have this from the I.W. site where it says that all appliances shall be indirectly plumbed.

Sleeper12

I've seen Irish water walk away from mains fed showers not working due to pressure or flow stating that they are against the building regs. This is in the last 12 months or so.

It seems if we aren't willing to pay for a decent water provider then we won't get one

Sesame

I had a combi boiler fitted about 4 years ago in our semi-d. Works off mains. It was fitted by a proper plumber. Part of the grant for improving home insulation and energy usage so plumber was registered for that. I also got the work audited by the SEAI afterwards and it was all perfectly fine. So I would guess if anything was against building regs it would have been picked up then.

The water tank in attic is no longer used. All hot water taps and the shower work off mains. We have very good mains pressure and thermostatic shower is strong, love it.
Super efficient too. Our combi boiler is oil fired and we spend probably 500 euros a year on oil which is all our heating and hot water. You are only heating the water as you use it so no wasteful immersion tank. And an empty airing cupboard is another benefit.

Not sure why more new builds don't do this. I can't see any downsides. They used to say if you had a few showers going, the pressure wouldn't be good enough to support them running at the same time but there are higher capacity boilers to manage that.

Sleeper12

Sesame wrote:

I had a combi boiler fitted about 4 years ago in our semi-d. Works off mains. It was fitted by a proper plumber. Part of the grant for improving home insulation and energy usage so plumber was registered for that. I also got the work audited by the SEAI afterwards and it was all perfectly fine. So I would guess if anything was against building regs it would have been picked up then.

Nope. SEAI are only concerned about the green aspect of the job (energy rating) & RGI are only concerned about the gas safety part of the job. Building regs don't fall under eithers remit. Every gas appliance passed RGI inspection in Priority Hall. That obviously doesn't mean that everything passed building regs.

A homeowner who removes cold water tank /hot water cylinder etc might have to redo said work to allow their house sale go through sometime in the future. Not saying that it will definitely happen but its there.

DGOBS

I'm sure I have the relevant section, but it would be on the computer and I won't see that until tomorrow.
But I have this from the I.W. site where it says that all appliances shall be indirectly plumbed.

So by this, IW are preventing the use of unvented cylinders aswell? (country is going backwards so!)

Flyer, can you provide a link to this (code of practice?) from IW, very interested to have a read

A homeowner who removes cold water tank /hot water cylinder etc might have to redo said work to allow their house sale go through sometime in the future. Not saying that it will definitely happen but its there.

Couldn't see it happening, look at all the (99.9%) of oil tank installations, look at all the 'semi-sealed' heating systems, the list is endless of all this crap thats gone on, and we are here arguing about a nonsense that combi boilers somehow put our mains water 'at risk'

What about all these instant hot water taps that are popping up everywhere, all mains fed too!

Sleeper12

DGOBS wrote: »

So by this, IW are preventing the use of unvented cylinders aswell? (country is going backwards so!)

Flyer, can you provide a link to this (code of practice?) from IW, very interested to have a read



Couldn't see it happening, look at all the (99.9%) of oil tank installations, look at all the 'semi-sealed' heating systems, the list is endless of all this crap thats gone on, and we are here arguing about a nonsense that combi boilers somehow put our mains water 'at risk'

What about all these instant hot water taps that are popping up everywhere, all mains fed too!

If you are selling a house with a modern extension you will require a certificate of compliance with the building regs for the sale to go through. I don't see how anyone could issue one if the builder has removed the attic tank & cylinder & left a combi boiler.


I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying it's possible that it could cause headaches at the time of selling

K.Flyer

DGOBS wrote: »

Flyer, can you provide a link to this (code of practice?) from IW, very interested to have a read

https://www.water.ie/our-customer-commitment/Code-of-Practice-for-Water-Supply.pdf