combi boiler

AmatureRuth · 05-11-2019 11:51am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You don't seem to understand what the building regs are all about. I understand to the homeowner or someone building their own home it can seen as an obstacle to get over & all you want is the piece of paper saying that you have met the regs. That isn't what the regs are. They are the minimum building standard. They are something tradesmen work to day in & day out. These aren't just for new builds or large extensions. Even the tiniest of jobs should meet or exceed the building regs if possible. The regs have legal meaning outside of new builds. To win a case against a tradesman all the homeowner needs to prove in court is that the job doesn't meet the current building regs.

From a plumbers point of view they should always meet Irish Waters minimum requirements & meet the current building regs. The logic of getting a cold water tank to meet regs & ripping it out once you have the compliance cert is like driving safely on your test & like a lunatic once you pass the test. It makes no sense. Tradesmen are bound by the building regs all of the time & not just on new builds.

A good plumber will always work to best practice. A good plumber will insist on a break water tank & a pump. This is the correct way to install a combi in Ireland. A plumber could ignore regs & test your water pressure & flow rate. He might be happy to install a combi on the mains despite the building regs. It might work perfectly & live a long & happy life BUT six months after installation Irish Water might reduces the flow & pressure & the combi mightn't work. A good plumber wont take this risk.

Respectfully, the above statement is an over simplified statement

You will find in the installation instructions & the warranty card that come with the combi boiler state that the installation should meet local building & water regs/requirements.

Respectfully, Sleeper12, you have completely misconstrued my analysis and interpretation.

I posted that response with the aim of being helpful to others: your reply is needlessly insulting and contradictory.

Idbatterim · 05-11-2019 11:57am

It’s your home. Do what you want. What an archaic system , tanks , pumps , limited hot water etc. it’s a joke. Put in a combi if you have enough mains pressure...

Paying far more and more maintenance noise andots for the rubbish system !

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2019 12:45pm

AmatureRuth wrote:

I posted that response with the aim of being helpful to others: your reply is needlessly insulting and contradictory.

What I posted is that not using a cold water break tank is against the building regulations and against Irish water regulations. Plumbers are bound by these regulations and best practice on new builds large and small extentions or just changing the boiler. This is a fact.

If you to remove your cold water tank no one will stop you. No one will know but its still wrong on just about all levels. Most plumbers won't touch it though.

AmatureRuth · 05-11-2019 6:15pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What I posted is that not using a cold water break tank is against the building regulations and against Irish water regulations. Plumbers are bound by these regulations and best practice on new builds large and small extentions or just changing the boiler. This is a fact.

If you to remove your cold water tank no one will stop you. No one will know but its still wrong on just about all levels. Most plumbers won't touch it though.

If you could point me to the Building Regs (not guidance) that says this I will eat my hat. If you could also point me to the "Irish Water Regs" that would also be great. (Neither exist.)

The technical guidance specifically says "the adoption of an approach other than that outlined in the guidance is not precluded provided that the relevant requirements of the Regulations are complied with" so please don't point me to guidance and claim that it is "law" or "regulations" because it is not.

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2019 6:35pm

AmatureRuth wrote: »

If you could point me to the Building Regs (not guidance) that says this I will eat my hat. If you could also point me to the "Irish Water Regs" that would also be great. (Neither exist.)

The technical guidance specifically says "the adoption of an approach other than that outlined in the guidance is not precluded provided that the relevant requirements of the Regulations are complied with" so please don't point me to guidance and claim that it is "law" or "regulations" because it is not.

I have explained this already. You are talking about building regulations as in getting a compliance cert. This has nothing to do with tradesmen having to follow the regs on every job, big & small

If a plumber takes out your cold water tank & installs a combi directly to the mains it might work perfectly forever. However if Irish water reduce the pressure or flow rate then you can bring the plumber to court & you will win your court case. You will win because the plumber went against Irish water stating that only drtinking water should be connected to the mains & because the plumber went against the building regs. You might think you are clever & can get around those pesky building regs but tradesmen are bound to them. Not meeting the building regs & Irish water requirements is more than enough to lose a court case.

You can do what ever you want & no one will ever know. There are thousands or 10s of thousands log cabins all over Ireland & not a single one has planning for living accommodation because not one meets the building regs but it doesn't stop people building them & living in them.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about this, big enough to open an account specially to push your opinion on the subject. I wont reply again as me repeating myself & you ignoring the points I make makes ugly reading. So I'll leave you to your, cold water free, tank house. :pac:

AmatureRuth · 06-11-2019 12:25pm

References to the actual law in case anyone is interested (presumably not Sleeper12): http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/497/made/en/print#sched2

Technical *Guidance* here: https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-g-hygiene/technical-guidance-document-g-hygiene

Plenty of Irish plumbers out there advertising that you can do away with your CW tank if you get a combi (I'm not suggesting this is sensible, just that it's not *illegal*).

Wearb · 06-11-2019 4:30pm

AmatureRuth wrote: »

References to the actual law in case anyone is interested (presumably not Sleeper12): http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/497/made/en/print#sched2

Technical *Guidance* here: https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-g-hygiene/technical-guidance-document-g-hygiene
.

Plenty of Irish plumbers out there advertising that you can do away with your CW tank if you get a combi (I'm not suggesting this is sensible, just that it's not *illegal*).

MOD NOTE: While I appreciate your contribution, I don't appreciate your snide comments singling out other contributors. Please cut it out.

rightjob! · 06-11-2019 9:37pm

I would always go with keeping the tank and installing a pump after the tank
This way you have a guaranteed pressure on all outlets and if the mains water is turned off for maintenance/burst pipes at least you will still have a tank full of water.
Which if the mains if off and you go mains into the combi you wont get to flush a toilet.

Up to yourself what you choose.

Sleeper12 · 07-11-2019 9:14am

This has gone beyond ridiculous.

Can I ask the RGI members here to state if AmatureRuth is correct when she states that you can ignore the current building regulations when installing a replacement gas boiler. Can you ignore the installation instructions when it states that the installation MUST comply with the current building regulations in your area?

So question RGI members: Do you need to follow current building regs when replacing a gas boiler? Or can you ignore current building regs? Pick & choose what regs to follow on an installation?

Sleeper12 · 07-11-2019 10:07pm

From 31st March 2008, all oil and gas fired boilers installed as replacements in existing dwellings must meet a minimum seasonal efficiency of 86%, where practicable. This requirement was introduced aspart of the revision of the Building Regulations Part L “Conservation of Fuel and Energy” adopted inDecember 2007. Currently the only boilers achieving this performance level are condensing boilers.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C16982%2Cen.pdf

Building regulation aren't just for new buildings. Even when replacing boilers you must comply with the building regs. Can you imagine replacement boilers not needing to meet the minimum standards?

08-11-2019 12:58am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This has gone beyond ridiculous.

Can I ask the RGI members here to state if AmatureRuth is correct when she states that you can ignore the current building regulations when installing a replacement gas boiler. Can you ignore the installation instructions when it states that the installation MUST comply with the current building regulations in your area?

So question RGI members: Do you need to follow current building regs when replacing a gas boiler? Or can you ignore current building regs? Pick & choose what regs to follow on an installation?

I think your flogging a dead horse, you only have to look at the industry to see nobody cares, there is little or no enforcement, there is no nationally agreed good working practices and absolutely anybody can do plumbing which has allowed some bad working practices to become the norm.

Sleeper12 · 08-11-2019 7:58am

gary71 wrote:

I think your flogging a dead horse, you only have to look at the industry to see nobody cares, there is little or no enforcement, there is no nationally agreed good working practices and absolutely anybody can do plumbing which has allowed some bad working practices to become the norm.

I totally agree with you. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Log cabin companies advertise log cabins for living accommodation when this is illegal in the same way as some plumbing companies advertise removing cold water tanks. The DCC bylaws & regulations governing water storage & installation are still live on the DCC website with links to the Irish water website so I believe the bylaws are still active. Some local council water bylaws were only enacted in 2014 as Irish water was taking over. Bylaws are legally binding. I just find it funny that someone does a little extention on their home and they become experts on all trades.

08-11-2019 10:39am

Unfortunately we live in times where it can seem easy access information trumps time served experience:(

I find for me at times it’s like vegetarians telling me how to cook steak

johnory1 · 23-02-2020 1:34pm

I fitted a Combi boiler last week and it suggested this in the instructions, its said it was fine to fit in u.k to mains, but in other regions, (it's only made for Ireland and u.k) that it must be pumped . it's also regulation in Dublin, that the incoming supply must have a an expansion vessel, for anyone servicing immergas combi boilers ,would have seen this

Sleeper12 · 23-02-2020 3:43pm

johnory1 wrote:

I fitted a Combi boiler last week and it suggested this in the instructions, its said it was fine to fit in u.k to mains, but in other regions, (it's only made for Ireland and u.k) that it must be pumped . it's also regulation in Dublin, that the incoming supply must have a an expansion vessel, for anyone servicing immergas combi boilers ,would have seen this

Someone set up a new account just to argue the opposite to what you have just said. I've no idea what their agenda was.

Look at the end of the day regulations or not there is nothing stopping you fitting straight onto the mains. No one will arrest you. The real reason not to connect to the mains in most of ireland is because it won't preform well & even if it does it might not in six months or a year if Irish water reduces the pressure in the area. It's just not good practice from a plumbing point of view regardless of the regulations.

combi boiler

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