Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Pelvis · 05-12-2018 5:25pm

Water John wrote: »

When you see Flynn getting a pass from Mueller for what he had done in exchange for cooperation, one must assume he has put some very senior people in the spotlight.

His charges would only result in a prison sentence of between 0-6 months.

Even without a plea there was a chance he wouldn't have done any jail time anyway.

FreudianSlippers · 05-12-2018 5:28pm

Water John wrote: »

When you see Flynn getting a pass from Mueller for what he had done in exchange for cooperation, one must assume he has put some very senior people in the spotlight.

I agree, but I'd also point out that Flynn was only indicted on one count of making false statements which isn't the most serious crime in all the various indictments. To get zero jail time though, he must have given them something very juicy.

FreudianSlippers · 05-12-2018 5:28pm

Pelvis wrote: »

His charges would only result in a prison sentence of between 0-6 months.

Even without a plea there was a chance he wouldn't have done any jail time anyway.

Tell that to Martha Stewart!

Hurrache · 05-12-2018 5:33pm

Water John wrote: »

When you see Flynn getting a pass from Mueller for what he had done in exchange for cooperation, one must assume he has put some very senior people in the spotlight.

Could also be a carrot in light of Trump's suggestions he may offer pardons. Cooperate with me and I'll ask for no jail time, or risk sticking with the administration who may or may not get you out of the crap you'll find yourself in.

EltonJohn69 · 05-12-2018 5:56pm

El Trumpo looking bored and uncomfortable at the George Bush funeral.... he has a strange unnatural sitting posture....

prawnsambo · 05-12-2018 6:10pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

El Trumpo looking bored and uncomfortable at the George Bush funeral.... he has a strange unnatural sitting posture....

He had a glorious moment during the signing of the new NAFTA treaty. He signed his copy in the wrong place. The reactions of the others around him were priceless.

Also his reaction to Trudeau calling him "Donald"

Larbre34 · 05-12-2018 6:14pm

I wonder if theres any chance Trump listened to a word of former Canadian PM Mulroney's quite beautiful eulogy about leadership, statesmanship and friendship.

He is surrounded too a thousand years of Government experience, probably no chance he would absorb any of that either

UsedToWait · 05-12-2018 6:21pm

I'd love to hear from the Trump supporters at this stage?
Still a witch hunt?
Seems to be finding bigly witches.

Captain Obvious · 05-12-2018 6:22pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

He had a glorious moment during the signing of the new NAFTA treaty. He signed his copy in the wrong place. The reactions of the others around him were priceless.

Also his reaction to Trudeau calling him "Donald"

Probably thought it was another hush agreement and signed it David Dennison

duploelabs · 05-12-2018 6:43pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Probably thought it was another hush agreement and signed it David Dennison

John Baron

B0jangles · 05-12-2018 6:50pm

duploelabs wrote: »

John Baron

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

Igotadose · 05-12-2018 7:05pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

We sure it's his son? Has there been a DNA test? Is there a birth certificate? Mom wasn't a US citizen so it's Dad's word vs. ICE. Of course, the kid was born in the US (I suppose - no birth certificate) so his citizenship's guaranteed... for now.

duploelabs · 05-12-2018 7:53pm

Igotadose wrote: »

We sure it's his son? Has there been a DNA test? Is there a birth certificate? Mom wasn't a US citizen so it's Dad's word vs. ICE. Of course, the kid was born in the US (I suppose - no birth certificate) so his citizenship's guaranteed... for now.

We've had one too many birther movements in the past decade thanks, no need for another

duploelabs · 05-12-2018 8:00pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Just as a minor aside; imagine naming your child after the fake name you used in the '80s to plant puff pieces in the papers about yourself.

Because he's The Donald.

There is no moral bar with him. That is one example, and practically every father would take a bullet to save their son.
But say if a certain question came up about a certain meeting in a certain tower, would he hesitate in implicating one of his sons? Not for a moment because....

He's The Donald

emptyhouse2222 · 05-12-2018 8:31pm

duploelabs wrote: »

Because he's The Donald.

There is no moral bar with him. That is one example, and practically every father would take a bullet to save their son.
But say if a certain question came up about a certain meeting in a certain tower, would he hesitate in implicating one of his sons? Not for a moment because....

He's The Donald

I feel its safe to say this is the end of trump
How can he recover from this

pixelburp · 05-12-2018 9:01pm

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

prawnsambo · 05-12-2018 9:09pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

I don't think even he agrees with you. The ever increasing hysteria in his tweets point to a great deal of fear on his part.

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:30pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I agree, but I'd also point out that Flynn was only indicted on one count of making false statements which isn't the most serious crime in all the various indictments. To get zero jail time though, he must have given them something very juicy.

I dunno... My inner Solomon tells me that Michael Flynn was being hit with some serious stuff around his own shady dealings as an un-registered foreign agent and the son was facing even more peril, so Flynn fell on his sword in order to clear the decks. Don't forget that, as a retired senior Military Officer, he would have been very susceptible to appeals to his Patriotic nature once Mueller and his team had bombarded him with evidence of how his previously errant ways (arguably from a naive lack of deep thinking) could have been used/abused by the likes of Putin, Erdojan and MBS to inadvertently undermine the US. Like, Obama got rid of him as DNI because he was lacking in certain people and political smarts.

That text he allegedly sent to his Arab Nuclear Project co- conspirators was highly prejudicial, as was his cosying up to Putin on the RT gig as well as lying about where he was staying on foreign trips. Mebbe he's not actually the sharpest knife in the drawer??

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:36pm

UsedToWait wrote: »

I'd love to hear from the Trump supporters at this stage?
Still a witch hunt?
Seems to be finding bigly witches.

Nah! Lads, ye've beaten them into submission here... I reckon y'all need to re-focus yeer attention and take on the I.R.A. trolls in Petersburg.... Or mebbe Fox News.... Anyone for Breitbart or Infowars??

TomOnBoard · 05-12-2018 9:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The end of Trump. Sticking my neck out, here and now. Donald Trump will be on the GOP ticket in 2020. He's the alpha Teflon politician, Berlusconi or Ahern on steroids and radiation. He's an awful human being but the sheer volume of deviance makes him an impossible target to find on smoking gun.

Now, maybe Mueller will eventually reveal that gun, a legal point of no return for the sitting President to remain in the White House, but I doubt it. It'd have to be something monumental to shift even the toadiest Republicans from their rigid support. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy, they've invested too much and short of murder or easily demonstrable fraud, they simply won't budge an inch.

I dunno... I see an albeit miniscule re-framing of the GOP establishment attitude to Trump since the mid-terms. As Congressional seats come up for the 2020 contest, you'll see more and more Senators begin to hold their noses to avoid the stink. If the House Dems play smart, they can surface nuggets of kryptonite that will do a lot of damage without being so obviously on the attack that ppl get fed up with them. I don't think Trump has the strategic capability to outsmart such a precise, targeted strategy.

Like, Hannitty, Ingraham, Carlson and Judge Jeanine will self- marginalise as their rhetoric and bombast becomes ever more objectionable. I watched Hannitty's post-Flynn monologue (yes, I watch them all- my views are very well informed and are nuanced by lots of loopers on all sides) earlier and OMG, did he sound like Lord Haw Haw!!!

So, I reckon this is more the end of the beginning than it is the beginning of the end. Will Trump make 2020? My jury is still out! But they promise to return a verdict on that within a month of the new House taking their seats. At the minute, I reckon that Pelosi is the most crucial influence in U.S. politics!

pixelburp · 05-12-2018 10:47pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think even he agrees with you. The ever increasing hysteria in his tweets point to a great deal of fear on his part.

He's not used to this level of scrutiny on his every action; I think he's cracking, but ultimately don't believe there'll be enough of a paper-trail back to him to cause him legal problems. His son and closest within his circle? Very possibly, and if so Trump's defence of his children may yet make him a political pariah, but this whole election cycle has resisted conventional wisdom - so who knows?

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I dunno... I see an albeit miniscule re-framing of the GOP establishment attitude to Trump since the mid-terms. As Congressional seats come up for the 2020 contest, you'll see more and more Senators begin to hold their noses to avoid the stink. If the House Dems play smart, they can surface nuggets of kryptonite that will do a lot of damage without being so obviously on the attack that ppl get fed up with them. I don't think Trump has the strategic capability to outsmart such a precise, targeted strategy.

I don't see it myself: there has been plenty of tacit condemnations, and twice as many hypocritical turnabouts (look at Lindsey Graham as chief quisling in that respect). Bob Corker routinely spoke out of both sides of his mouth.

Suppose the question becomes: assuming Trump was a Useful Idiot to ram through the Obamacare / taxation changes (with limited success), what's left for the Republican leadership, with weakened control of Washington?

mcmoustache · 05-12-2018 10:51pm

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

prawnsambo · 05-12-2018 11:08pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He's not used to this level of scrutiny on his every action; I think he's cracking, but ultimately don't believe there'll be enough of a paper-trail back to him to cause him legal problems. His son and closest within his circle? Very possibly, and if so Trump's defence of his children may yet make him a political pariah, but this whole election cycle has resisted conventional wisdom - so who knows?

Nothing I've seen of heard so far would lead me to believe that these characters are the sharpest knives in the drawer. If there isn't a paper trail or significant intelligence on the who, what and when I'll eat my hat. John Oliver's description of it as 'stupid watergate' is bang on.

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 12:55am

mcmoustache wrote: »

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

The so-called procedural crimes have already produced a rafter of turkeys who have lined up to be plucked... It's gas to see the likes of Hannitty complaining that Mueller is being in some way unfair by prosecuting such crimes... Like, is it sooo totally unknown to these ppl that a procedural crime would be prosecuted?? Oh, No! It's sooooo unfair!!!

Noooooooo, Asshole! What's soooooo unfair is a 17 year old lad with no previous record being charged with felony possession of a controlled substance in Mississippi, with a multi-year term of penal servitude given to him, for holding a quantity of a product that is perfectly legal to hold in many other States in yeer so-called Union of States that are collectively, allegedly, the "Land of the Free" and the "Home of the Brave"...

Edit: apologies... Got side-tracked on a rant while I was trying to make a point about stuff reported by Michael Ishikoff...

TomOnBoard · 06-12-2018 1:19am

mcmoustache wrote: »

The last few weeks have really been something. We almost have confirmation of a conspiracy between Stone, Corsi, Credico, Malloch and Wikileaks. We almost have confirmation of Stone communicating with Trump during the campaign around the time of the wikileaks dump. We know that Trump was actively pursuing the Moscow project during the campaign. We know that he lied about it, leaving him Kompromised. We almost know that J.D Gordon claimed that Trump asked for the softening of language in the RNC platform on Ukraine. We almost know that KT McFarland was aware of Flynn's discussions on sanctions with the Russians. We know that Manafort was in debt to Deripaska and went to work for Trump for free. And of course, we all know that they all consistently lied about the Russian stuff.

I've used the word "almost" a lot there but the reporting on this so far has been quite impressive from investigative journalists so I think it's a safe bet that we'll have confirmation of these things in the near future. We also have lots of confirmation that Mueller is looking into all of the above. We have direct evidence of kompromat (Trump Tower Moscow) already. Add all the rest of the weird Russian coincidences (and there are loads) and we're not far away from direct evidence of a quid-pro-quo.

And that's all without getting into the so-called procedural crimes like lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice. Anyone still think that this is some hoax by butt-hurt dems?

Sry.. Got side- tracked earlier....

I would add to your 'Almosts' by throwing The Panama Papers (PP) into the mix.

While neither Putin,Trump nor many of the other Mueller-possible subjects have figured as named PP subjects, I reckon that they're almost there...

I reckon that the principals have arranged their affairs such that they could benefit from the benefits of the laundering schemes on offer, but kept themselves 1 step removed from the action through cutouts.

Why do I think that?

Simply because Deutsche Bank(DB) in Germany was raided by authorities on the PP case there, within days of the 1st ever prosecution on PP-related charges of 4 individuals in the US, aaaand a subpoena that was issued to the Trump Organisation a year ago in this space, aaaaand the belief that DB has acted both for Russian Oligarchs by providing Money Laundering services and both Trump and Kuchner organisations by providing loan financing..

Am I stretching facts? Possibly...
Am I almost there? Possibly...

aloyisious · 06-12-2018 2:49am

I'd like one player to be collared by the investigation and that's Julian Assange, bringing it all back to the leaks. I know their veracity has been debunked but it would help close off one angle if the source was confirmed.

In respect of signs that the end was nearing, I'd only sit up and take notice on the day that one or more close members of the Trump family take an extended visit from the U.S to another diplomatically very friendly country. Until then, in respect to who's door is knocked on next, i'll take each investigative days events as they come.

kilns · 06-12-2018 9:38am

Huge moment for Trump today, the Hauwei CFO has been been arrested for breaching sanctions with Iran, if she is not released this could be seen as a sign as a declaration of economic war and despite what the Americans tell you, the Chinese are in a very strong position

Gbear · 06-12-2018 10:30am

kilns wrote: »

Huge moment for Trump today, the Hauwei CFO has been been arrested for breaching sanctions with Iran, if she is not released this could be seen as a sign as a declaration of economic war and despite what the Americans tell you, the Chinese are in a very strong position

She was arrested in Canada though.

I don't think Canada recognise the sanctions against Iran, so she may not be extradited to the US. They may not consider the warrant valid.

Kiith · 06-12-2018 10:48am

The only arrested her after the US extradition request, didn't they? If not, why did Canada arrest her in the first place?

mcmoustache · 06-12-2018 11:21am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I reckon that the principals have arranged their affairs such that they could benefit from the benefits of the laundering schemes on offer, but kept themselves 1 step removed from the action through cutouts.

Why do I think that?

Simply because Deutsche Bank(DB) in Germany was raided by authorities on the PP case there, within days of the 1st ever prosecution on PP-related charges of 4 individuals in the US, aaaand a subpoena that was issued to the Trump Organisation a year ago in this space, aaaaand the belief that DB has acted both for Russian Oligarchs by providing Money Laundering services and both Trump and Kuchner organisations by providing loan financing..

Am I stretching facts? Possibly...
Am I almost there? Possibly...

The timing of this was interesting. There's a lot of overlap between between people in Trump's orbit and people mentioned in the Panama papers. And there's also the small matter of Deutsche Bank being fond of money laundering and also being one of the few institutions to lend to Trump who is also suspected of money laundering.

It's too early to say if the Deutsche Bank raids are related but I would not be surprised if they were.

Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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