EU261 compensation discussion

finbarrk · 10-04-2018 2:28pm #1

I made a claim to them for compensation for a cancelled flight from Stansted to Shannon on 30 March. They say they don't have to pay it because the cancelation wasn't their fault as it was due to a fire at the Airport.
Anyone know if this is the case with these compensation claims?
They did refund the cost of the flight alright. But I had to spend a good bit on another flight the next day with Aer Lingus from Heathrow, as all Ryanair flights were full.

Riskymove · 10-04-2018 2:31pm

compensation doesn't arise as

the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Compensation_Regulation_261/2004

munchkin_utd · 10-04-2018 2:52pm

finbarrk wrote: »

I made a claim to them for compensation for a cancelled flight from Stansted to Shannon on 30 March. They say they don't have to pay it because the cancelation wasn't their fault as it was due to a fire at the Airport.
Anyone know if this is the case with these compensation claims?
They did refund the cost of the flight alright. But I had to spend a good bit on another flight the next day with Aer Lingus from Heathrow, as all Ryanair flights were full.

getting alternative travel reimbursed (and hotels, and any ground travel, and possibly a little for meals) for actual expenses incurred is different from "compensation"

"Compensation" has nothing to do with whatever knock-on costs you incurred, its an extra flat rate payment beyond those costs to compensate you for the inconvenience (and a deterrent to airlines to be cancelling flights willy nilly)

if Ryanair offered you an equivalent flight departing within a "reasonable" time, and you declined this offer, then they could be within their rights to not pay you.

Chris_5339762 · 10-04-2018 7:48pm

Whilst you have no case for compensation here (just a refund, a phonecall and food), the best of luck getting anything out of Ryanair.

My snow claim for cancelled flights was rejected outright. They did refund me but refused anything for phonecall and food. No EU261 either.

Irish Steve · 10-04-2018 11:33pm

moloner4 wrote: »

I've a complaint similar about Ryanair and Eu261 rights after a 7 hour delay, which they refused to pay out.

Made a complaint about it a couple months ago and still waiting to hear back. I'll leave details below if you want to make an external complaint but not a legal one.

Air Passenger Rights Team
Commission for Aviation Regulation
Alexandra House, Earlsfort Terrace, Dublin 2, D02 W773
T: +3531-6611700
www.aviationreg.ie www.flightrights.ie

What caused the delay? Had a 5 hour delay only a few days ago, put an EU261 claim in on the day after the flight, and had a positive response within 3 days, though the money's not actually in the bank yet.

From reading the rules in close detail, and they are seriously complex, there would seem to be quite a few reasons for delays that disbar compensation from the airline, so fog or snow or ATC restrictions will result in no compensation, a broken aircraft is a different and liable situation.

Jamie2k9 · 10-04-2018 11:44pm

FR pay out faster (10 day) now because they set up a team to process them.

finbarrk · 11-04-2018 8:45am

Ok, thanks for the explanations. I'm going to try and get a few €'s off my travel Insurance instead now instead. Whether that will work or not.

finbarrk · 20-04-2018 12:12pm

Travel Insurance won't pay for the replacement flights either. They emailed me yesterday saying all I am entitled to is €50 each compensation for a delay that was over 12 hours. So much for having Travel Insurance, I thought it was for situations like this.

munchkin_utd · 20-04-2018 1:28pm

finbarrk wrote: »

Travel Insurance won't pay for the replacement flights either. They emailed me yesterday saying all I am entitled to is €50 each compensation for a delay that was over 12 hours. So much for having Travel Insurance, I thought it was for situations like this.

but did they or Ryanair pay you for your out of pocket expenses.

For most people thats what insurance is there for.

grogi · 21-04-2018 9:53am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Whilst you have no case for compensation here (just a refund, a phonecall and food), the best of luck getting anything out of Ryanair.

My snow claim for cancelled flights was rejected outright. They did refund me but refused anything for phonecall and food. No EU261 either.

In short, EU261 apply when it's airline fault. Main reasons would be:
- there was a problem with the aircraft
- there was a problem with Ryanair staff - strike, someone called in sick last second etc.

All other reasons - exp. airport closure due to weather, strike at ATC or the airport (of non-Ryanair personel and their contractors, such as luggage handling) etc. - don't entitle one to make EU261 claim.

Fred Swanson · 22-04-2018 5:15pm

This post has been deleted.

finbarrk · 23-04-2018 9:03am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

but did they or Ryanair pay you for your out of pocket expenses.

For most people thats what insurance is there for.

No. No compensation for the replacement flights I had to purchase, or nothing for the Hotel for the night, and I have receipts for both. Travel Insurance say Ryanair should compensate me, and Ryanair say they should not, because it wasn't their fault that there was a fire in Stansted that evening, and the airport closed down.
I have emailed travel insurance customer service asking what's the point in having it.

EntryDenied12 · 23-04-2018 9:06am

Paying for travel insurance is a waste of money if you’re delayed for less than 12 hours and if that circumstance is outside the airlines control

Chris_5339762 · 23-04-2018 9:14am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

For food and phonecalls in my case, yes. But you try getting that out of Ryanair. They say no and the fact that it was weather related means you are entitled to a flight refund ONLY. Its just not worth fighting it for the amount of money involved.

I'm about €150 out of pocket after the Stansted weather cancellations in December. Ryanair won't pay anything (fair enough) but neither will my travel insurance as the back and forth means it happened a lot longer than 90 days ago, and they won't entertain any claim after that period regardless of whether I was covered at that time or not.

Fred Swanson · 23-04-2018 10:54am

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adam88 · 23-04-2018 1:38pm

Can you not go to the regulator. I heard her on the radio and reading between the lines I got the impression tat they love putting it up to them (Ryanair)

finbarrk · 23-04-2018 2:59pm

I might try the regulator so, thanks.

ahbell · 23-04-2018 3:40pm

finbarrk wrote: »

I might try the regulator so, thanks.

In previous cases I have found the UK regulator a lot more efficient than the Irish regulator. You can use their website here https://www.aviationadr.org.uk

lc180 · 28-05-2018 9:07am

My flight from Birmingham last night was delayed by 4 hours and 12 minutes. Ryanair are saying it was caused by the lightning strike in Stansted yesterday morning. I'm guessing this will mean no compensation as it's weather related. What does everyone think?

I got an email from them with a pdf confirmation of the delay for use in a claim with travel insurance.

We sincerely apologise for the delay of your flight FR667, from Birmingham to Dublin on the 27-05-2018.
Be assured that we have made all reasonable efforts to prevent and reduce the flight delay, and understand the inconvenience it may have caused.
If you have travel insurance and would like to make a claim with your insurance company, we have attached a PDF document as proof of delay.
For more information on delays visit our Frequently Asked Questions
We again apologise for the delay of your flight.
Sincerely
Ryanair Customer Services.

grogi · 28-05-2018 9:31am

lc180 wrote: »

My flight from Birmingham last night was delayed by 4 hours and 12 minutes. Ryanair are saying it was caused by the lightning strike in Stansted yesterday morning. I'm guessing this will mean no compensation as it's weather related. What does everyone think?

I got an email from them with a pdf confirmation of the delay for use in a claim with travel insurance.

Was your flight delayed directly because of the storm (and all other departing flights at the same time were delayed), or the delay was simply caused by the delay on a previous flights of said plane?

If the first, no compensation is due. If the second - fight for it, they should pay.

lc180 · 28-05-2018 9:39am

grogi wrote: »

Was your flight delayed directly because of the storm (and all other departing flights at the same time were delayed), or the delay was simply caused by the delay on a previous flights of said plane?

If the first, no compensation is due. If the second - fight for it, they should pay.

It seems like it was a delay caused by a knock on effect. From what we were told, prior to our flight (Birmingham - Dublin) the aircraft was being used for the Standsted - Dublin flight, this flight was delayed because of the lightning strike, which in turn caused the Dublin to Birmingham flight to be delayed substantially and then my flight.

JCX BXC · 28-05-2018 9:44am

lc180 wrote: »

It seems like it was a delay caused by a knock on effect. From what we were told, prior to our flight (Birmingham - Dublin) the aircraft was being used for the Standsted - Dublin flight, this flight was delayed because of the lightning strike, which in turn caused the Dublin to Birmingham flight to be delayed substantially and then my flight.

That's not extraordinary circumstances then from my understanding, chase it.

Fred Swanson · 28-05-2018 12:45pm

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lc180 · 28-05-2018 1:00pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The knock on effect is covered by EU261. They tried this with me before. I persisted and the paid out.

Good to hear. Out of interest how much did you get? Refund of your flight or much more?

Fred Swanson · 28-05-2018 1:14pm

This post has been deleted.

Chris_5339762 · 28-05-2018 9:49pm

They'll claim it was Extraordinary due to weather. Fight it.

lc180 · 28-05-2018 11:06pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

They'll claim it was Extraordinary due to weather. Fight it.

I submitted my compensation form so let's see what they say.

If they do try to reject it how should I fight it? Is there an argument I can make which Ryanair can't really argue with?

Fred Swanson · 28-05-2018 11:17pm

This post has been deleted.

irishrebe · 29-05-2018 11:05am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The knock on effect is covered by EU261. They tried this with me before. I persisted and the paid out.

I thought so too. I have a similar situation. Inbound flight apparently struck by lightning (this contradicted what we were told by ground staff, so not sure it's even true) and the aircraft apparently had to be checked, making the outbound flight about six hours delayed. This should definitely be covered by EU261, shouldn't it? Even IF the lightning strike thing is true, this would be considered a knock-on effect?
I just don't get what the passenger is supposed to do here if the airline lies that a technical issue was a lightning strike, for example. Isn't the onus on the airline to prove it? Yet it seems they can just say 'no sorry, not paying' and get away with it.

grogi · 29-05-2018 11:14am

irishrebe wrote: »

I just don't get what the passenger is supposed to do here if the airline lies that a technical issue was a lightning strike, for example. Isn't the onus on the airline to prove it? Yet it seems they can just say 'no sorry, not paying' and get away with it.

q.1) contact airline via their online for
a.1) 'We don't have your jacket. And it was storm BTW'

q.2) Respond that "it wasn't caused by storm - yadayadayada - knock on delay - yadayadayada"
a.2) 'We have storms, best storms!'

q.3) reply that it wasn't storm - yadayadayada - knock on delay - yadayadayada - me not happy, legal actions

Typically the airline will pass at a.2. But if a.3 is still a firm NO, the easiest way to proceed is to file the claim through solicitors that specialise with it. They will take their part, but you will not have to deal with the airline anymore... Simple google search will give you the answer...

irishrebe · 29-05-2018 11:46am

grogi wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I just don't get what the passenger is supposed to do here if the airline lies that a technical issue was a lightning strike, for example. Isn't the onus on the airline to prove it? Yet it seems they can just say 'no sorry, not paying' and get away with it.

q.1) contact airline via their online for
a.1) 'We don't have your jacket. And it was storm BTW'

q.2) Respond that "it wasn't caused by storm - yadayadayada - knock on delay - yadayadayada"
a.2) 'We have storms, best storms!'

q.3) reply that it wasn't storm - yadayadayada - knock on delay - yadayadayada - me not happy, legal actions

Typically the airline will pass at a.2. But if a.3 is still a firm NO, the easiest way to proceed is to file the claim through solicitors that specialise with it. They will take their part, but you will not have to deal with the airline anymore... Simple google search will give you the answer...

Yeah, I know about those companies, but they take a fair whack as compensation if they win. Just seems ludicrous that the airlines are not obliged to provide proof to the customer that it was indeed a lightning strike, and that compensation is not applicable. The onus should be on them to prove it. This was Ryanair, and they just stopped answering me. Pretty unbelievable, but I guess that's their strategy because they know they haven't a leg to stand on. I guess I'll have to go through one of those companies - better something than nothing!

notharrypotter · 29-05-2018 5:46pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Curious as to your qualification to say when it is safe to operate a flight during adverse weather.

Fred Swanson · 29-05-2018 5:53pm

This post has been deleted.

Toga Stroll · 28-06-2018 3:35pm

Can anyone clarify a few things for me please. Firstly I have been waiting for 7 weeks for my compensation claim to be processed, is this delay allowed? Also am I entitled to apply for a refund for the flight as well as claim compensation? And I was forced to book another flight the night I was delayed as I had to get to an event, does this effect my claim? Thanks

grogi · 28-06-2018 3:41pm

Toga Stroll wrote: »

Can anyone clarify a few things for me please. Firstly I have been waiting for 7 weeks for my compensation claim to be processed, is this delay allowed?

Generally no - but what are you going to do about it?

Also am I entitled to apply for a refund for the flight as well as claim compensation?

Yes

And I was forced to book another flight the night I was delayed as I had to get to an event, does this effect my claim? Thanks

No. You should get refunded for the flight and EU261 compensation if relevant (cancellation was outside of airline control).

BrokenArrows · 28-06-2018 3:41pm

Compensation is only paid when the airline could have prevented the delay.
eg. Staff shortages, plane not being ready etc.

Stuff like bad weather, airport fires etc cannot be claimed because the airline cannot control those.

Toga Stroll · 28-06-2018 4:10pm

grogi wrote: »

Generally no - but what are you going to do about it?

Yes

No. You should get refunded for the flight and EU261 compensation if relevant (cancellation was outside of airline control).

Hi thanks for that. On the delay front I’m going to lodge a complaint with the aviation regulator and see what that manages to do. Says on Ryanair website wait time should be 10 days and it’s been 44. Thanks again

Toga Stroll · 28-06-2018 4:19pm

Actually I think I may have an issue on getting a refund as I was in such a rush trying to find another flight I did not cancel the Ryanair flight.

Bartek7 · 03-07-2018 6:30pm

Hi guys, just a quick question.

My flight was cancelled recently, and I have completed the claim form on the 14/06/2018. On the 26/06 i have received an e-mail saying the below:

"We wish to confirm that a refund of your cancelled flight, from the booking in the amount of 65.98 EUR has been processed to the original form of payment used and this refund should be reflected on your next statement.

We also inform that a bank transfer for the sum of 732.01 EUR (equivalent to 250 EUR per customer) has been authorised by Ryanair in full and final settlement of your claim under EU 261. The sum includes also additional expenses and the price difference between the tickets from booking."

I have received the refund of €65.98 2 days later (28/06), but still no sign of the €732. Can someone confirm (based on their own experience) that I am due this amount (hopefully shortly!)? It seems pretty weird to me that the refund was processed within two days of that e-mail?

grogi · 03-07-2018 7:07pm

Bartek7 wrote: »

Hi guys, just a quick question.

My flight was cancelled recently, and I have completed the claim form on the 14/06/2018. On the 26/06 i have received an e-mail saying the below:

"We wish to confirm that a refund of your cancelled flight, from the booking in the amount of 65.98 EUR has been processed to the original form of payment used and this refund should be reflected on your next statement.

We also inform that a bank transfer for the sum of 732.01 EUR (equivalent to 250 EUR per customer) has been authorised by Ryanair in full and final settlement of your claim under EU 261. The sum includes also additional expenses and the price difference between the tickets from booking."

I have received the refund of €65.98 2 days later (28/06), but still no sign of the €732. Can someone confirm (based on their own experience) that I am due this amount (hopefully shortly!)? It seems pretty weird to me that the refund was processed within two days of that e-mail?

65 went to the card, the rest goes through the current account.

L1011 · 03-07-2018 7:09pm

Or by cheque if you didn't give them BIC/IBAN but they do have your home address. That takes up to a month.

Bartek7 · 03-07-2018 7:51pm

Lads, thanks for your answers.

Just to be Sure - did you receive a similar email before? Just trying to plan my budget for the coming days ðŸ˜…

L1011 · 03-07-2018 7:58pm

Yes. Don't expect the money that fast even if you gave BIC/IBAN.

09-08-2018 9:32pm

Some help please.

My flight Aer Lingus flight last night from Gatwick was delayed by over 4 hours.

Where/how do I find the form to make a claim?

Thanks

Toga Stroll · 10-08-2018 10:43am

TheTorment wrote: »

Some help please.

My flight Aer Lingus flight last night from Gatwick was delayed by over 4 hours.

Where/how do I find the form to make a claim?

Thanks

https://eu261compensationclaims.ryanair.com
There’s several forms online but I think I used this one. Be prepared to wait though. Only just got contacted by Ryanair saying they had approved my claim almost 4 months later. I called/chatted online several times over the course of that but they just continually said there were delays even though I knew of others who had received theirs long before me. Took an official complaint against them and a threat of the aviation commission for them to finally respond. They really are a terrible company.

L1011 · 10-08-2018 10:46am

Toga Stroll wrote: »

https://eu261compensationclaims.ryanair.com
There’s several forms online but I think I used this one. Be prepared to wait though. Only just got contacted by Ryanair saying they had approved my claim almost 4 months later. I called/chatted online several times over the course of that but they just continually said there were delays even though I knew of others who had received theirs long before me. Took an official complaint against them and a threat of the aviation commission for them to finally respond. They really are a terrible company.

Wrong airline - the poster asking was on Aer Lingus.

I think Aer Lingus require it to be done by post still (!) using this form - https://www.aerlingus.com/media/pdfs/claim_application_form.pdf - but I haven't had to do it myself with them so not certain

stargazer 68 · 10-08-2018 11:24am

L1011 wrote: »

Wrong airline - the poster asking was on Aer Lingus.

I think Aer Lingus require it to be done by post still (!) using this form - https://www.aerlingus.com/media/pdfs/claim_application_form.pdf - but I haven't had to do it myself with them so not certain

That's for expenses and a refund. I haven't been able to find the 261 form for Aer Lingus either and it's for a cancelled flight!

grogi · 10-08-2018 12:05pm

Dovies wrote: »

That's for expenses and a refund. I haven't been able to find the 261 form for Aer Lingus either and it's for a cancelled flight!

Contact CS without a form then.

State:
- your name and address
- reservation number
- flight number, date, departure and arrival airport
- your bank account details
- be clear that you are seeking the EU261 compensation.

10-08-2018 4:22pm

I found this https://www.aerlingus.com/support/forms/post-travel-enquiry/

In the section marked "issue" there is a section for EU261

I presume this is what I look for?

stargazer 68 · 24-08-2018 9:58am

Aer lingus have now come back and said it was an Air Traffic Control decision to cancel the flight so no compensation due. Any way of actually checking if that's true? Other flights came in at the same time.

Carawaystick · 26-08-2018 10:29pm

Ask them for a copy of documentary evidence showing ATC cancelled the flight

EU261 compensation discussion

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