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Covid tenant issues.

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Comments

  • #102
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    Oddly enough LL's (Indeed everyone else) are expected to have a crystal ball and be able to cover the cost of it.

    The risk of doing business
    If every property washed its face and then some there would be a lot more landlords
    Every investment carries some risk


  • #103
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    You're ok with some people needing to be clairvoyant though.


  • #104
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    You're ok with some people needing to be clairvoyant though.

    No the Op I answered said that the tenant should have moved out after 9 months.
    Covid happened ,the world changed and he could not move
    Maybe he had every intention of moving out after the 9 months
    maybe he realised the landlord was a bit of a fool and did not know the law ,and exploited it and never had any intention of moving out.
    THe fact remains he was legally entitled to do what he did and the landlord will just have to suck it up and make do with 2 separate tenancies splitting the 9 months in future


  • #105
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    ...landlord will just have to suck it up and make do with 2 separate tenancies splitting the 9 months in future

    The chance of this LL renting it out ever again or not selling it are slim to none. Once bitten twice shy.

    Maybe the reason he couldn't find anywhere (and half of Dublin could for staycations) was lack of references...


  • #106
    eleventh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I am not defending the tenant in any way but when I first saw the thread it immediately occurred to me that nine months ago Ireland was in a very different state. That the arrival of covid-19 may have made finding somewhere else all but impossible? That plans for moving on after the 9 months may have fallen through? Is that possible?
    If anything the situation is better now than it was pre-covid, as far as finding a place to rent.

    My concern really is that this type of thing could end up eroding trust between landlords and tenants, to a point where supply will dwindle further. i.e. covid being used as an excuse as opposed to a genuine situation where for example a tenant has to self-isolate.

    There aren't many tenants who would be dishonest in that way. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of articles in the media that want to paint tenants in that light.


  • #107
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    The chance of this LL renting it out ever again or not selling it are slim to none. Once bitten twice shy.

    Maybe the reason he couldn't find anywhere (and half of Dublin could for staycations) was lack of references...

    Do not know of anybody that took a 9 month staycation
    2 weeks was the most I heard
    Never heard of anybody needing a reference for a staycation


  • #108
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    eleventh wrote: »
    If anything the situation is better now than it was pre-covid, as far as finding a place to rent.

    My concern really is that this type of thing could end up eroding trust between landlords and tenants, to a point where supply will dwindle further. i.e. covid being used as an excuse as opposed to a genuine situation where for example a tenant has to self-isolate.

    There aren't many tenants who would be dishonest in that way. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of articles in the media that want to paint tenants in that light.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114483107


  • #109
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114483107

    That thread seems to be about LLs getting shafted and leaving the market. No possible connection between that and lack of supply.


  • #110
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    Do not know of anybody that took a 9 month staycation
    2 weeks was the most I heard
    Never heard of anybody needing a reference for a staycation

    Well we know one. That's possibly whyb they rented a holiday home. Good point.


  • #111
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    Well we know one. That's possibly whyb they rented a holiday home. Good point.

    It was not a staycation it was a 9 month rental

    Put the shovel down


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  • #112
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    That thread seems to be about LLs getting shafted and leaving the market. No possible connection between that and lack of supply.

    The tenant could not find somewhere suitable to move to
    Maybe the holiday home was in Portlaoise ~?/


  • #113
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    It was not a staycation it was a 9 month rental

    Put the shovel down

    It's not a 9 month rental if they didn't leave after 9 months.

    Hard to hear you, you're so far down that hole you're digging for yourself.


  • #114
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    The tenant could not find somewhere suitable to move to
    Maybe the holiday home was in Portlaoise ~?/

    Portlaoise by the sea. Are you an estate agent by any chance.


  • #115
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    Is the tenant still paying the rent?


  • #116
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skinny90 wrote: »
    Is the tenant still paying the rent?

    Would it matter. You can string that out for months also. Let's assume it's being paid otherwise it would have been mentioned.

    Let's assume all good things about the tenant. That there simply is no supply. They have no where else to go.

    6yrs to regain a holiday home. Assuming they don't change the legislation again. Kids will be all grown up.


  • #117
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    beauf wrote: »
    Would it matter. You can string that out for months also. Let's assume it's being paid otherwise it would have been mentioned.

    Let's assume all good things about the tenant. That there simply is no supply. They have no where else to go.

    6yrs to regain a holiday home. Assuming they don't change the legislation again. Kids will be all grown up.

    Are we not allowed to look at the bright side? is that not permitted here? Or is this a thread for bashing tenants?


  • #118
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skinny90 wrote: »
    Are we not allowed to look at the bright side? is that not permitted here? Or is this a thread for bashing tenants?

    I just said let's assume all good things about the tenant. How is that bashing the tenant. ???

    I'm just making the point there's not much point having a holiday home you can't use for 6 yrs maybe more. What would you do with it.


  • #119
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    beauf wrote: »
    I just said let's assume all good things about the tenant. How is that bashing the tenant. ???

    I'm just making the point there's not much point having a holiday home you can't use for 6 yrs maybe more. What would you do with it.

    It was assumed and dismissed with some outrageous claim to not having access to the place for 6 years...
    from what I have read it’s been leased for 9 months, where are you pulling 6 years out of?


  • #120
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skinny90 wrote: »
    It was assumed and dismissed with some outrageous claim to not having access to the place for 6 years...
    from what I have read it’s been leased for 9 months, where are you pulling 6 years out of?

    Whats assumed and dismissed, and what is outrageous? I'm not following you at all.
    Security of tenure is provided for in law. Changes to legislation in 2016 extended security of tenure from 4 years to 6 year after the first six months of the tenancy.


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  • #121
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    Portlaoise by the sea. Are you an estate agent by any chance.

    Just pointing out that in certain areas there is a critical lack of supply e.g Portlaoise
    Maybe be the tenant lived in one such area


  • #122
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    beauf wrote: »
    Whats assumed and dismissed, and what is outrageous? I'm not following you at all.

    They havnt been in the place for more than a year. We can assume they’re paying rent so the owner of the house can look at the bright side. It could be a lot worse and the landlord will learn from this


  • #123
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skinny90 wrote: »
    They havnt been in the place for more than a year. We can assume they’re paying rent so the owner of the house can look at the bright side. It could be a lot worse and the landlord will learn from this

    What has a year got to go with it.

    Lots of property owners will learn from this. Since it was the national press..


  • #124
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    Just pointing out that in certain areas there is a critical lack of supply e.g Portlaoise
    Maybe be the tenant lived in one such area

    Some can cross oceans and half the globe to get to Ireland. Generations of Irish migrated all over the world.


  • #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Some can cross oceans and half the globe to get to Ireland. Generations of Irish migrated all over the world.

    Not at the moment beauf.


  • #126
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Not at the moment beauf.

    That's kinda missing the point. But in one thread people are claiming there loads of supply due to Airbnb being empty etc and people WFH home or unemployed moving home leaving places empty causing rents to plumett, and others people complaining about all the empty property that hasn't dropped rents.

    Then there's this thread where people can't travel and there is zero supply.

    Can't have it both ways.

    I know people who have traveled and done the quarantine and people traveling all over the country for staycations,or just to see family, or work in other counties.


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  • #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    That's kinda missing the point. But in one thread people are claiming there loads of supply due to Airbnb being empty etc and people WFH home or unemployed moving home leaving places empty causing rents to plumett, and others people complaining about all the empty property that hasn't dropped rents.

    Then there's this thread where people can't travel and there is zero supply.

    Can't have it both ways.

    I know people who have traveled and done the quarantine and people traveling all over the country for staycations,or just to see family, or work in other counties.

    Of course you can have it multiple ways, depending on circumstances and location. Certain areas have over supply, some are still under supplied. Dublin is over supplied, yet there is likely to be restrictions on movements from tonight, another area may have movement, but no houses available to rent.


  • #128
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The point being you can move. We've been able to move for months. Anything that happens in Dublin today is irrelevant. There is supply. This is all just whataboutery.


  • #129
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    beauf wrote: »
    ...Let's assume all good things about the tenant. That there simply is no supply. They have no where else to go. ..

    Like I said let's assume all is good with the tenant.

    What next.


  • #130
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    beauf wrote: »
    What has a year got to go with it.

    Lots of property owners will learn from this. Since it was the national press..

    :pac::pac: what is to be learnt from this? you can get unfortunate with a bad tenant?? Should the tenant be viewed as a "bad tenant"

    There is a lot of context we dont know however based on the context in the story... The responsibility lies with the owner of the house, end of.

    Each time they decide to rent out for 9monthse they are entering that risk associated on the tenant, looking after the house and paying rent on time.

    If that is fulfilled then great.

    Ya cant just hope the tenant will move on just like that, regardless of was initially agreed upon

    Suck it up and be thankful that the tenant is looking after the house and paying the rent on time.

    The fact that made national press is beyond a joke.


  • #131
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    skinny90 wrote: »
    :pac::pac: what is to be learnt from this? you can get unfortunate with a bad tenant?? Should the tenant be viewed as a "bad tenant"

    There is a lot of context we dont know however based on the context in the story... The responsibility lies with the owner of the house, end of.

    Each time they decide to rent out for 9monthse they are entering that risk associated on the tenant, looking after the house and paying rent on time.

    If that is fulfilled then great.

    Ya cant just hope the tenant will move on just like that, regardless of was initially agreed upon

    Suck it up and be thankful that the tenant is looking after the house and paying the rent on time.

    The fact that made national press is beyond a joke.

    I suggested assume all is good with the tenant. This is third time repeating that. :confused: I have no idea why you think the tenant is a bad tenant.

    What more interesting is the repercussions. If you can't see any its all good, and you should have no problems with the story being in the national press.


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  • #132
    skinny90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭skinny90


    beauf wrote: »
    I suggested assume all is good with the tenant. This is third time repeating that. :confused: I have no idea why you think the tenant is a bad tenant.

    What more interesting is the repercussions. If you can't see any its all good, and you should have no problems with the story being in the national press.

    Ok.


  • #133
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    beauf wrote: »
    There is no timely way to recover a property. Tenant can simply over hold.

    If a tenant and landlord both sign a fixed term contract for say 9 months, say it is drawn up by solicitors and signed/witnessed by both parties, can the tenant break the contract with no repercussions? Years ago when we rented an apartment through a well known estate agency, we had to have it checked out & stamped by the solicitors. That was before the RTA though.

    I can see how a tenant who did not sign for a fixed term could expect to stay after the 6 months part 4 kicks in, but what is the point of signing a fixed term contract if its not worth the paper its written on? Its a bit like an employee who signs a fixed term contract for 9 months work, when the 9 month job is finished, they can't demand that the employer continues to employ them.

    How does a contract work in one situation and not the other?


  • #134
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    If a tenant and landlord both sign a fixed term contract for say 9 months, say it is drawn up by solicitors and signed/witnessed by both parties, can the tenant break the contract with no repercussions? Years ago when we rented an apartment through a well known estate agency, we had to have it checked out & stamped by the solicitors. That was before the RTA though.

    I can see how a tenant who did not sign for a fixed term could expect to stay after the 6 months part 4 kicks in, but what is the point of signing a fixed term contract if its not worth the paper its written on? Its a bit like an employee who signs a fixed term contract for 9 months work, when the 9 month job is finished, they can't demand that the employer continues to employ them.

    How does a contract work in one situation and not the other?

    If you are using a FT employment contract analogy, it might be better to consider what happens after 4 years and equate that to a tenant who stays over 6 months.

    Either way, both contracts are covered by different legislation.


  • #135
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    ..How does a contract work in one situation and not the other?


    This...
    ...However, a lease should not contain terms that contradict the legal rights of tenants and landlords. If this happens, your legal rights as a tenant or landlord will overrule the terms in the lease...

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

    Its not useful to compare this with employment law as it's different.


  • #136
    dennyk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭dennyk


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    If a tenant and landlord both sign a fixed term contract for say 9 months, say it is drawn up by solicitors and signed/witnessed by both parties, can the tenant break the contract with no repercussions?

    Yes, because the legislation in the Residential Tenancies Act supersedes any contract regarding a covered tenancy. Tenants can't sign away their statutory rights under the RTA (or under most other legislation, unless said legislation specifically allows it).
    mrslancaster wrote: »
    Its a bit like an employee who signs a fixed term contract for 9 months work, when the 9 month job is finished, they can't demand that the employer continues to employ them.

    There are no provisions in employment law stipulating that an employee can unilaterally elect to remain in their job at the end of a fixed term employment contract, while there is such a provision allowing tenants to unilaterally elect to remain in their tenancy following the end of a fixed term lease in Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act. In general, employees cannot contract away statutory rights under employment law either; an employment contract term which states that an employee waives their right to paid annual leave, for instance, would be void, because the employment legislation governing paid leave doesn't allow for such an exception.


  • #137
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,295 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    If a tenant and landlord both sign a fixed term contract for say 9 months, say it is drawn up by solicitors and signed/witnessed by both parties, can the tenant break the contract with no repercussions??

    The fact that it is drawn up by solicitors and witnessed is of no relevance. If the tenant enters into a fixed term contract and then breaks it there can be repercussions. These can be quite limited however because the landlord is expected to mitigate his loss. The tenant will only be liable for the actual loss suffered by the landlord which may be quite little.


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