Low carb diet

How Strange · 08-02-2008 11:42am

g'em wrote: »

lol, the non-bloaty tummy really is the *best* side effect of low-carbing isn't it?!?

I'll be really interested to see how you get on in light of the... ahem.. digestive problems that we were talking about above. I'm still a little the worse for wear, and even senakot won't help anymore.

This is WAY more info than I should be giving about myself on the intarweb

Hey G'em, things seem to have righted themselves over the last couple of days.

I don't eat wheat but eat spelt. I've had humus (the nice mcdonells one, not the processed ones) for lunch over the last few days which always works for me. But don't eat it every day as its too much for your system. I also love it, its yummy. I've also eaten broccoli over the last couple of nights for dinner along with carrots.

I don't use senokot anymore as a doctor told me it will give you a lazy bowel and imo mine is lazy enough as it is! For desperate times/desperate measures situations I sit myself down on a quiet evening with a bottle of prune juice mixed with orange juice to take the taste away. I also eat prunes every day.

There is this really good herbal medicine brand called Jan de Vries (or something close) and they do a good bowel tincture. It's made from flowers and plants. Sometimes I also buy this and put it in water. I've also tried Ortisan fruit cubes but they taste foul.

Apologies to all other posters for my frankness on such a private topic.

g'em · 08-02-2008 12:48pm

How Strange wrote: »

I don't eat wheat but eat spelt. I've had humus (the nice mcdonells one, not the processed ones) for lunch over the last few days which always works for me.

I'd never even thought of that, I must look into it. Thanks HS, and no apologies needed, sure better out than in (all puns intended

)

neuro-praxis · 08-02-2008 1:19pm

Lads can I recommend Colpermin. My gastroenterologist recommended it to me. I am trying it this month and so far so good. It is an over-the-counter non-synthetic medication made from peppermint oil and it soothes irritable bowel. Give it a go.

ApeXaviour · 08-02-2008 1:24pm

Dunno if this will be any help, but if I'm ever backed up (for me usually occurs after a cheat day/weekend when I've avoided my veggies) I usually increase my fish oil or dairy intake, these never fail me. A gulp of Milk of Magnesia or a higher than normal amount of vitamin C (2000mg say) I've found in the past to do the trick too.

g'em · 08-02-2008 2:56pm

I wonder... is it a wheat intolerance? I often think that all those intolerances are often in people's heads but now I'm not so sure. Maybe when I do carb up I'm doing so with entirely the wrong things?

Hmmm...

How Strange · 08-02-2008 3:14pm

g'em wrote: »

I wonder... is it a wheat intolerance? I often think that all those intolerances are often in people's heads but now I'm not so sure. Maybe when I do carb up I'm doing so with entirely the wrong things?
Hmmm...

When I eat wheat (just a slice of bread or two at the weekends or a slice of cake etc) I start to feel awful over a long space of time and my system is all over the place.
If I go on holiday to France and eat bread etc I will be in a heap the following week and it requires a full ban on wheat to get me back to normal. I usually bring a stash of wheat free crackers or bread with me if I need them.
When I avoid wheat I feel fine and no digestive or stomach problems.
I ate wheat at the weekend so that explains why my system was upset for the first few days this week.

If you want to know if its in your head give it up for two weeks. It will take a week to get it out of your system and by the end of week two if you feel much better then its a wheat intolerance; if not then its back to the drawing board.

I eat spelt crackers alot - you get them in health food shops and some superquinn stores sell them. I also eat rye bread - aldi have 100% rye bread for 70c. It's an acquired taste but once you get used to its bitter taste its lovely.

Colpermin is great for your stomach but doesn't help my digestive system but what works for one may be useless for someone else so its all about figuring out what works for you.

dudara · 08-02-2008 4:49pm

g'em wrote: »

I wonder... is it a wheat intolerance? I often think that all those intolerances are often in people's heads but now I'm not so sure. Maybe when I do carb up I'm doing so with entirely the wrong things?

Hmmm...

It's quite possible. Ireland has a very high proportion of coeliac disease compared to the rest of Europe. However, being wheat intolerant does not mean you are a coeliac.

I was diagnosed as a coeliac a while back and have naturally followed a semi-low-carb diet for years. The amount of "badness" that disappeared from my system was amazing.

With regard to the constipation, I usually have one of three cures

A handful of peanuts
A really stron double espresso
A few sugar-free sweets (you know the ones "warning - excessive consumption may cause laxative effects) - 2 or 3 of the M&S ones always seem to do the trick for me

flaka · 15-02-2008 6:43pm

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Dunno if this will be any help, but if I'm ever backed up (for me usually occurs after a cheat day/weekend when I've avoided my veggies) I usually increase my fish oil or dairy intake, these never fail me. A gulp of Milk of Magnesia or a higher than normal amount of vitamin C (2000mg say) I've found in the past to do the trick too.

I've found Senakot syrup is good for that. In the end I started eating branflakes (Lo-Gi) for breakfast and high fiber bread. No probs

Instead of low-carbs I went lo-gi
corn flakes -> porridge/branflakes/omelet
pasta -> chick peas / drum wheat pasta
basmati rice -> black beans, red kindey beans
potatoes -> more meat, more veg
white sugar -> no sugar
white bread -> linseed, oats, high fiber

cozmik · 09-03-2008 6:15pm

g'em wrote: »

I'm curious to know if anyone else experiences this when low-carbing?

I started low-carbing last month and I have hit the same problem.This is what I found on the NDDIC website.

The most common causes of constipation are a diet low in fiber or a diet high in fats, such as cheese, eggs, and meats.

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/constipation/index.htm

That's it with low-carbing for me. I'm going back on a diet with plenty of carbs and low fat, at least that way I will stay regular.

EileenG · 09-03-2008 10:14pm

cozmik wrote: »

I started low-carbing last month and I have hit the same problem.This is what I found on the NDDIC website.

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/constipation/index.htm

That's it with low-carbing for me. I'm going back on a diet with plenty of carbs and low fat, at least that way I will stay regular.

Low carb does not meal low fibre. I eat at least twice as much green veg on low carb as I do on a "balanced" diet, and I never have constipation. And high fat is only a problem if the bowels are clogged up with lots of junk carbs.

Last night I visited friends and ate mushroom soup, brown bread, Irish stew (lamb, potatoes and onion), apple crumble and chocolate cake. All very normal, only the cake was high fat, but I really missed all my broccoli and spinach, and afterwards, I felt bloated and uncomfortable and constipated.

ApeXaviour · 10-03-2008 1:05am

cozmik wrote: »

I'm going back on a diet with plenty of carbs and low fat

Please don't say that.. Low fat diet = biggest mass bullshtiting of the last century.

cozmik wrote: »

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddise...tion/index.htm

And what the heck does that website have to do with carbohydrate-restrictive diets (i.e. eating healthy)?

cozmik · 10-03-2008 7:24am

Low carb does not meal low fibre. I eat at least twice as much green veg on low carb as I do on a "balanced" diet, and I never have constipation. And high fat is only a problem if the bowels are clogged up with lots of junk carbs.

I was eating 3 servings of green veg a day aswell as drinking copious amounts of water and nothing was happening.I didn't have any junk carbs in my diet either.The trouble with fibre is if you go overboard on it that can cause constipation too.

And what the heck does that website have to do with carbohydrate-restrictive diets (i.e. eating healthy)?

Did you read the quote?

"a diet high in fats, such as cheese, eggs, and meats." i.e. a low carb diet

ApeXaviour · 10-03-2008 10:06am

cozmik wrote: »

Did you read the quote?

"a diet high in fats, such as cheese, eggs, and meats." i.e. a low carb diet

Wow, and it didn't occur to you that one could eat lots of eggs, cheese, meats, rice, mashed potatoes and pasta? That link has nothing to do with restricted carbohydrate diets.

Replace those last three with fruit and plenty of green vegetables, then you really should have no problem with constipation. For me the reverse was nearly a problem.

cozmik · 10-03-2008 2:23pm

Wow, and it didn't occur to you that one could eat lots of eggs, cheese, meats, rice, mashed potatoes and pasta?

Look, I'm sure you understand that your body uses fat as it's energy source when low-carbing. So someone may be eating large amounts of the above mentioned foods but the body will always go for the carbs before the fat for it's energy in that situation.Now I have never had problems with constipation while eating a diet mixed with carbs and fats where the carbs where the main source of energy but as soon as I cut the high carb food bread cereal pasta etc and switched to low carb foods for my energy meat eggs cheese etc that was when the problem occurred.My diet was high in these foods in order to supply energy in the absence of carbs which is why I posted the link above because it states a diet high in those foods is one of the most common causes of constipation.

Replace those last three with fruit and plenty of green vegetables, then you really should have no problem with constipation.

Well you won't get the type of energy you need while low-carbing from fruit and as I said earlier I was eating plenty of green veg.

Froot · 10-03-2008 2:40pm

How Strange wrote: »

Phew, I HATE porridge! And before I get an onslaught of replies saying that's stupid its probably the one food I have hated since I was a child and although I will eat it when necessary (if I am on a hiking trip for instance) I always eat it through gritted teeth. After a few days of eating I start to gag at the thoughts of it. But I know its a superfood and is so good for you.

I am intolerant to wheat so ready brek really is the only thing that I like and fills me up for a few hours. I usually have it with linseeds, sesame and sunflower seeds with some raisins.

Try millet porridge (I think it's called Grits in America). It has a finer consistency than Porridge and is a bit more like ready brek.

I love porridge myself

++++++++++++++++++++++

Also, to prevent constipation, you could try putting a few tablespoons of flax seeds into a pint of water and leaving it in the fridge overnight and then drinking the whole lot the next day. It works wonders

. That is if you would prefer to do this than eat more green veg etc.

ApeXaviour · 10-03-2008 5:07pm

cozmik wrote: »

Look, I'm sure you understand that your body uses fat as it's energy source when low-carbing. So someone may be eating large amounts of the above mentioned foods but the body will always go for the carbs before the fat for it's energy in that situation.Now I have never had problems with constipation while eating a diet mixed with carbs and fats where the carbs where the main source of energy but as soon as I cut the high carb food bread cereal pasta etc and switched to low carb foods for my energy meat eggs cheese etc that was when the problem occurred.My diet was high in these foods in order to supply energy in the absence of carbs which is why I posted the link above because it states a diet high in those foods is one of the most common causes of constipation.

Okay, clearly talking through your hat there. That link suggests high fat in the absence of low fibre. The title under which it says is not enough fibre. You've taken a single poorly constructed sentence from a rather large article and decided it to be canon.

And for the record, this BS american led obsession with fibre is really starting to get to me. I mean sure, why isn't it fine to suffer protein malnourishment once you're getting enough goddamn useless indigestible cellulose).

I suggest to you some further reading: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/constipation.html

from the above link wrote:

Constipation is a frequent complaint when people who have eaten a high-fibre diet adopt the low-carb diet recommended here. But that does not mean that the new diet is at fault. Constipation is really caused by their previous diet. What happens is this: You eat food and the waste is moved along the bowel by circular muscles in rather the same way as a worm moves (it's called peristalsis). If you eat a high-fibre diet, the fibre itself forces waste through and that peristaltic action is made redundant. After a while it stops working. Now you change to a low-*fibre, more natural diet, and your bowel muscles don't work as they should, so you get constipated.

But the muscles will recover if you keep eating properly (low-carb, high-fat). While they catch up and get working again, increasing salads or raw vegetables might help them; drinking more water will also help. What you should not do is go back to the high-fibre regime that caused the problem in the first place.

cozmik · 10-03-2008 6:56pm

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Okay, clearly talking through your hat there.* That link suggests high fat in the absence of low fibre.

I don't think so.

The most common causes of constipation are a diet low in fiber or a diet high in fats, such as cheese, eggs, and meats.

They are clearly talking about 2 different diets.

*Please keep your smart arse comments to yourself.

g'em · 10-03-2008 7:04pm

Lads, keep it civil please. If you have a problem with a post, report it. No more smart-arsing from either of you, ta.

ApeXaviour · 10-03-2008 9:48pm

You're right. I really should know better. Blame it on no sleep (well 2 hours) last night. Apologies for being a smart arse cozmik, though I still think you're being a bit obtuse. Anyway...

_

cozmik · 11-03-2008 7:59am

ApeXaviour wrote: »

I still think you're being a bit obtuse. Anyway...

_

obtuse? weren't you just told to keep it civil?

Why the hell are you even getting in my face? My comment wasn't directed at you to begin with so just stay out of it , alright lad?

Mr Magnolia · 11-03-2008 8:28am

FFS, ApeXaviour & cozmik, did you see g'em's warning? Anymore of this crap and I'll be issuing bans, don't say you weren't warned.

If you've a problem with a post report it.

dudara · 11-03-2008 3:17pm

cozmik, I think that you're dismissing the low-carb way of eating quite quickly. I found different things worked for me when low-carbing. Coffee, flaxseed, lots of green veg etc. They didn't all work at the same time and I had to move around between methods.

ali.c · 15-03-2008 5:21pm

ApeXaviour, personally i think its great that low-carbing works for you but in fairness your a bit fanatical about it. I have come to the thinking that some people just dont do the well on low-carb diets or at least not everyone does. I have tried it a few times and really just feel like ****e. The last time my stomach went mental and i was literally in agony for a whole night. Once i reintroduced some good clean carbs it mircalously cleared up. Now i think low carbing is great in principle but i am not convinced that a moderate carb diet is any less good.

perfect_circle · 24-03-2008 8:40pm

i think a good balance is the best way to go. reducing carbs definitely helps, but you do still need them in moderation.
i've found the best cereal which is low in calories (about 170/bowl) and high in protein and fibre (11g per bowl) is all-bran. some people don't like it, but i have it in the morning with a table spoon of flaxseed and a little bit of fruit and fibre on top for flavour and its lovely. it also works a charm to keep me regular, which aids in weightloss!

rubadub · 24-03-2008 9:29pm

perfect_circle wrote: »

i've found the best cereal which is low in calories (about 170/bowl) and high in protein and fibre (11g per bowl) is all-bran.

Be careful with portions, the quoted portions on boxes are tiny, so they appear low in cals. All bran is 17% sugar.

http://www.kelloggs.co.uk/products/allbran/Cereal/all_bran_original.aspx

Most porridge has no added sugar. 1.3% natural sugar, so all bran must have ~15% added sugar.

Gummy Panda · 24-03-2008 10:04pm

I'm a bit of a fatso so i tried the high protein low carb diet. I bought Protein Power and The 30 Day Low Carb diet books.

Been about four days on it and love it so far. Woke up this morning looked in the mirror and belly had flatten a little. I didn't look so bloated. Felt like i had more energy too. Maybe this is just positive think and all that.

But i got some questions for fans of this lifestyle,

Breakfast - What would you have for breakfast? I've been mixing it between eggs, bacon and protein shake (not all three at once

) I made sure to get a shake that has very little carbs too. I just don't want to get bored after awhile and return to toast or something.

broccoli - Seriously how do you cook this properly from frozen. Two attempts and on both is taste cold, wet and horrible. Cooking and season suggested would be much appreciated.

Btw, one thing i love so far about the diet is that he has forced me to move from processed foods and to cook from scratch my own food. My own homemade beef burgers taste alot better then birdeye's or Big Ale's finest.

rubadub · 24-03-2008 11:01pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Breakfast - What would you have for breakfast? I've been mixing it between eggs, bacon and protein shake

Steak, chicken. I can never understand why pigs became the traditional breakfast animal.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

My own homemade beef burgers taste alot better then birdeye's or Big Ale's finest.

I get round or rib steak, trim all the fat off and liquidise it. This is cheaper and leaner than buying "lean mince", and you can see the meat that went in.

Gummy Panda · 24-03-2008 11:15pm

rubadub wrote: »

Steak, chicken. I can never understand why pigs became the traditional breakfast animal.

I get round or rib steak, trim all the fat off and liquidise it. This is cheaper and leaner than buying "lean mince", and you can see the meat that went in.

Thanks for the tip.

But for breakfast would you just boil/grill some chicken and eat that?

A lad who is a fan of low carb sometimes has a tuna salad for breakfast or tuna & veg. Not sure i could move to breakfast being like a dinner yet.

rubadub · 25-03-2008 1:58pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

But for breakfast would you just boil/grill some chicken and eat that?

I usually have ham or chicken in the fridge. I try to be low carb but I do usually eat oats in the morning, I mix with whey powder to give some protein. I get large chickens now and strip the skin off, then roast it, leave it cool and strip all the meat off and stick in a bag in the fridge. It is a very cheap way to get chicken, but will have more fat than just breasts, but taking the skin off does help.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Not sure i could move to breakfast being like a dinner yet.

I have never really made much distinction myself, as I said I cannot see why pigs should be a breakfast animal, and not chicken or beef. People also think it is odd to eat ham for breakfast, though bacon, sausages, pudding is fine. I always get comments like "how can you eat that at this hour". I used to eat pizza and people thought I was mad, I would say "what if I got toast, some cheese, sausage and fried tomato", and suddenly that is acceptable, even though it is basically the same as a pepperoni pizza.

Maybe I have a stomach of steel or something, I never had a problem eating in the mornings, I would even have hot curries.

Gummy Panda · 28-03-2008 10:54pm

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but have any of you noticed your appetite decrease when moving from eating lots of carbs to a low carb diet?

I've come to a week on the diet and my appetite has lowered. I don't feel that hungry anymore especially compared to previous were i would feel hungry and snack after a meal.

My meal portions seem smaller as well. Don't want to eat as much.

Faith · 29-03-2008 10:49am

Protein keeps you fuller for longer than carbs do, so if you're now eating a protein-rich diet, that explains it.

EileenG · 30-03-2008 12:08am

It's one of the huge advantages of a low carb diet, that you are a lot less hungry, so it's a lot easier to stick to your calories.

Also, I feel that a small portion of rice or pasta etc packs a lot of calories, so if you stick to meat and green veg, you get a bigger plateful of food.

kam3qnwvebf4jh · 05-04-2008 7:37pm

Just thought I would lend a bit more support to the low carb approach by giving my experience with it since I started in the new year.

32 y.o male. Weight wise, I have shed 2 stone in 3 months.
I was originally on lipostats(40mg) for high cholesterol and continued to take these while on the diet. 2 weeks ago I got my cholesterol measured again and it was down to 3.5, doctor thought this was too low and immediately halved my dosage but it appears to me that the low carbing was responsible for the extra drop in my cholesterol (my liver function is still elevated but I think this has to do with the statins which I eventually hope to give up). Funny thing is, I have actually being eating an egg every morning now for the past 3 months and these are meant to be responsible for increasing cholesterol.

Heres my daily diet at the moment.

6:30 : Egg, 20g portion of cheese, 10g portion of butter, Milk (Full Fat). Mixed and scrambled.
10:00 : Fruit (no bananas, pear/plum/apple ok)
13:00 : Whatevers cooking in the canteen with the exception of
- potatoes/chips/croquettes..
- breaded/battered/escalloped anything
- rice/pasta
Simply double up on the veg portion to make up for the absence of spuds.
17:00 : Fruit (no bananas, pear/plum/apple ok)
19:30 : Salad : Lettuce, 20g cheese, 20g mayo(full fat), onion, pickled jalepeno/asparagus/cucumber, tomatoes. Mix it all up and throw a tin of fish (salmon/mackerel/sardines) into the middle
21:00 Snack : handful of nuts (almonds/cashews/brazil. pistachios with shell are best as you are slowed down by shelling them

Dont think I will ever be able to abstain from alcohol , but I seem to be able to get away with a glass or 2 of wine on a Thu/Fri night and a "nice few" pints on a Sat night. I'm not an exercise buff and I have a sedentary job.

Anyways, thats my two cent with low carb. It may not work for everyone but if everything else you have attempted has failed so far then I would say give this a lash and good health to you !!

EileenG · 05-04-2008 11:17pm

Great to hear that low carb is going so well for you. And that you are convincing your doctor that eggs are not a passport to heart attack!

Your diet looks very good. The only thing I'd suggest is eating berries instead of those two fruit portions, or something like a tub of cottage cheese. Even non banana fruit tends to have more carbs than you'd think. I'd keep them for before a workout. Those little packets of Good4U seeds are very low carb too.

Pablo Sanchez · 21-09-2008 10:22pm

Have been doing a low (practically no!) carb diet for the last couple of weeks and i have a couple of questions someone might be able to help me with.

How do you know when your body has gone into Kestosis (spelling probably wrong)

Nuts as a snack- does that include the likes of roasted peanuts/cashews etc? Also do seeds fit into the whole low carb thing?

Things like stew/chicken curry etc obviously has the meat but is the sauce its in a problem?

Thanks in advance!

EileenG · 21-09-2008 10:36pm

You can buy ketostix from any chemist (behind the counter, you have to ask for them) for about 8 euro for 50. Pee on them and if they turn pink, you are in ketosis.

A cheaper method is just to keep track of your weight. After a day spent peeing like a racehorse, a sudden drop of 2-4lb is a definite sign of ketosis. Other possible signs are fruity smelling breath, stronger smelling and darker coloured urine, lack of hunger, steady energy all day.

Get to know your own signs of ketosis, after a while your body stops wasting ketones by pissing them away and the ketostix won't change colour.

My own personal sign is that I actually do non-essential housework like hoovering. Also, I find I prefer to do crosswords and puzzles or read textbooks in ketosis. I read novels when I'm eating carbs.

If you are in ketosis and then suddenly find you feel sleepy after a meal, there was probably hidden carbs in it, and you are out of ketosis. It won't last long.

The best nuts are things like raw almonds, hazelnuts, brazil nuts, pecans etc. Peanuts and cashew have a significant number of carbs, but in a pinch, they are much better than chocolate or crisps. Same with seeds. Sesame seeds are very low carb, others are higher. Read labels.

If you make the sauce yourself, your stew is probably fine. The ones to watch are the prepackaged ones which are heavy on thickeners and modified maize starch etc.

I hope you are eating lots of vegetables? All the green leafy stuff is so low carb that you can eat it till it comes out your ears.

EileenG · 21-09-2008 10:43pm

I had a full physical recently, and after seven and a half years of low carbing, my only physical problem is flat feet.

They checked heart, lungs, breast, cervix, skin, joints, eyes, ears, blood, urine, stool, blood pressure, pulse, bones, thyroid and a whole pile of other stuff, and every thing was so normal it was boring. The only unusual thing was that my HDL cholesterol was the same level as my LDL, which is good, but not frequent!

So if you like the idea of low carb, but worry that it is sending you to statin-ville, you can relax.

corkcomp · 22-09-2008 7:16am

EileenG wrote: »

I had a full physical recently, and after seven and a half years of low carbing, my only physical problem is flat feet.

They checked heart, lungs, breast, cervix, skin, joints, eyes, ears, blood, urine, stool, blood pressure, pulse, bones, thyroid and a whole pile of other stuff, and every thing was so normal it was boring. The only unusual thing was that my HDL cholesterol was the same level as my LDL, which is good, but not frequent!

So if you like the idea of low carb, but worry that it is sending you to statin-ville, you can relax.

i think its very important NOT to generalise when it comes to health issues - your results may be okay while following a low carb regeime, it may be different for other people, it was the opposite for me so i would advise people to have routine blood works done every 2 years ......

Tar.Aldarion · 22-09-2008 7:58am

Indeed, these things work differently with different people. I remember seeing a book about hawaii or some other island that was about people there traditionally being high carb with good health and going to low carb bad health. Similarly there would be books about the opposite.

Pablo Sanchez · 22-09-2008 5:42pm

Had my first report of bad breath today on this low carb diet- i heard that was one of the side effects but i was wondering does this pass or it just inevitable?

EileenG · 22-09-2008 8:18pm

It passes. Drink lots of water, brush your teeth and either chew some parsley or use a breath mint.

EileenG · 22-09-2008 8:22pm

corkcomp wrote: »

i think its very important NOT to generalise when it comes to health issues - your results may be okay while following a low carb regeime, it may be different for other people, it was the opposite for me so i would advise people to have routine blood works done every 2 years ......

I've had regular blood work done, this was the first full poke-and-prod physical. But I know a lot of people who eat low carb as a regular way-of-life diet, and they all have excellent blood results too.

El_Dangeroso · 23-09-2008 9:03pm

Hi All,

Fellow low carb lifer here, been eating the most delicious healthy food for two years.

On the constipation issue.. drink a cup of decaf with cream in the morning followed by a cold glass of water, works like a charm

Failing that, juice a celery and cucumber, but beware, try this as a LAST resort..:D

While I agree that populations have survived on low fat, high carb diets (the Kitava being an example), there is nothing unhealthful whatsoever eating a low carb, high fat diet. Even populations that are better adapted to rice than westerners, such as the Japanese, they still thrive on a low carb diet.

One thing all healthy populations have in common is they don't eat high levels of Omega 6 fats found in vegetable and seed oil. They eat Omega 3's and 9's found in fish, animal fats and Olive oil. Oh, and they get high amounts of vitamin D3, you HAVE to supplement this far north IMO.

Tar.Aldarion · 23-09-2008 9:41pm

aside: isn't d2 better than d3, our bodies accept it better and so on?

El_Dangeroso · 23-09-2008 10:03pm

Not so I'm afraid, Vitamin D3 or cholecaliferol is the one that is most effective at maintaining blood levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D, some studies have shown equal effectiveness, but none have shown D2 to be more effective. Vitamin D2 or erfocholecaliferol is the cheaper alternative used by the food industry to fortify foods such as milk. Taking vitamin D2 yields very little conversion to the effective D3, so don't try to get your Vit D from those so-called supermilks.. take a gel capsule or if you can stomach it, some cod liver oil.. your granny was right about that one.

Tar.Aldarion · 24-09-2008 2:23am

I just remembered if from wiki but I can't say I would trust it etc. I think different foods have either d2, d3 or both fortifying them but maybe d2 is cheaper or something.

Healthy individuals absorb cholecalciferol and ergocalciferol approximately equally well, and while initial reports suggested that vitamin D3 was more potent in humans, the same journal has published newer research which contradicts those initial reports. The human body does not tolerate vitamin D3 as well as vitamin D2, limiting the maximum efficacy of vitamin D3 supplementation compared to vitamin D2. Cholecalciferol is synthesized by the bone marrow of the skeletal system. Hepatic synthesis of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol is only loosely regulated, and blood levels of this molecule largely reflect the amount of vitamin D produced in the skin or ingested. In contrast, the activity of 1-alpha-hydroxylase in the kidney is tightly regulated and serves as the major control point in production of the active hormone.

Cholecalciferol is the form of vitamin D normally added during fortification of foods. Cholecalciferol is produced industrially by the irradiation of 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from lanolin found in sheep's wool. In products where animal products are not desired, the alternative is to use ergocalciferol (also known as vitamin D2) derived from the fungal sterol ergosterol.

Anyway, rather off topic, back to it! It doesn't matter as I'm sure I get both.

El_Dangeroso · 24-09-2008 6:01pm

Sorry to keep off topic, just wanna make one more point..

Although you are right on that both are absorbed equally well in the body, D2 is approximately one third less potent:

From the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism:

The two calciferols produced similar rises in serum concentration of the administered vitamin, indicating equivalent absorption. Both produced similar initial rises in serum 25OHD over the first 3 d, but 25OHD continued to rise in the D3-treated subjects, peaking at 14 d, whereas serum 25OHD fell rapidly in the D2-treated subjects and was not different from baseline at 14 d. Area under the curve (AUC) to d 28 was 60.2 ng·d/ml (150.5 nmol·d/liter) for vitamin D2 and 204.7 (511.8) for vitamin D3 (P < 0.002). Calculated AUC(Infinity) indicated an even greater differential, with the relative potencies for D3 : D2 being 9.5:1.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/11/5387

Sorry for the highjacking, I'll stop now..

Tar.Aldarion · 25-09-2008 12:33am

It's just that the other journal says exactly the opposite.

ALthough it originally agreed with you.

Low carb diet

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